a 20b in a 350z? - Page 3 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Pank · 03-18-2008, 03:09 PM

who the fuck was talking about acceleration?

when did i ever say HP didnt matter?

all i said was HP is DERIVED from the lb/ft of torque, multiplied by rpm, divided by 5250.

that is how you find hp. no argument, that is how its done.

Torque * RPM

Horsepower = ------------

5252

I will give you that a rotary makes power, and it can make a shit load of it, and 20b's are light. what you're not understanding is that, compared to a comparable piston engine, they make much less torque under their peak.

peak numbers dont mean shit in racing

allntrlundrgrnd · 03-18-2008, 03:24 PM

whats the deal w/ the fmic on that 350, looks funky

steve shadows · 03-18-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilia

All these rotary haters are funny.

"BUT IT HAS NO TORQUE!!"

Torque doesn't accelerate cars. Horsepower does. You could have 10,000lb-ft of torque and still be slower than a 300hp civic, or rotary, or anything else. It's basic high school physics.

If you can't even grasp THAT, don't even BEGIN to talk about how rotaries are inferior for technical reason 1, 2, and 3.

NO

Torque is Force - HP is Applied torque over RPM

So you if you have a car that revs to 1k rpm and weighs 2000 lbs it will not really go anywhere without an extremely LONG single gear.

Torque is what actually wins races in cars. HP is an application of torque in a selected range of rpm, depending on a bunch of factors.

Maybe an Mech Engr can explain this better

HyperTek · 03-18-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pank

peak numbers dont mean shit in racing

its all driver preference if they want a torquey ride.

There is NO BEST or IDEAL because its all different for everybody.

check this out.. 4 rotor is awesome
[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=FBZL-GGbA4s[/ame]

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=2URDUVExzNo[/ame]

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=bHqAiiPx3-c[/ame]

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9VN9gvrnRU[/ame]

VROOOM · 03-18-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

One of my cheap dream cars - get a cheap 70s era 911. Can be had under 10k.. Throw on a 930 widebody conversion, fuchs wheels.. there is a company that makes the tranny adapter to put a rotary on. put a 13bt motor on there. thats easily 200hp in a 70s 911.. Just bare minimum to get the conversion done.. then over time upgrade the turbo/ic, suspension etc.. easily a 930 killer for way less. And maintanence of this motor would be cheaper then the porsche engine.

Forget the rotary. just get a twin turbo V8

HyperTek · 03-18-2008, 04:11 PM

wowsers that must be extremely difficult to drive

DUFFM4N · 03-18-2008, 04:26 PM

whenever i see/hear things about how rotary sucks...i always youtube the Mazda Scoot..."mazda 4 rotor", "13b"..."20b" its like music to my ears

Pank · 03-18-2008, 04:55 PM

its not that i hate rotaries or anything. In fact, this is quite possibly the coolest thing ever:

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Au7F2ttEXWU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Au7F2ttEXWU[/ame]

every time i watch it i'm like "SHIFT...SHIFT, SHIFT THE DAMN GEARS ALREADY"

*Antihero983* · 03-18-2008, 07:22 PM

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGp3hCK-jRg[/ame]

20B 3 rotor in a AE86.

fuck yeah.

HyperTek · 03-18-2008, 07:31 PM

theicecreamdan · 03-18-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pank

who the fuck was talking about acceleration?

when did i ever say HP didnt matter?

all i said was HP is DERIVED from the lb/ft of torque, multiplied by rpm, divided by 5250.

that is how you find hp. no argument, that is how its done.

Torque * RPM

Horsepower = ------------

5252

I will give you that a rotary makes power, and it can make a shit load of it, and 20b's are light. what you're not understanding is that, compared to a comparable piston engine, they make much less torque under their peak.

peak numbers dont mean shit in racing

Horsepower isn't derived from torque. Horsepower is a function of torque for a given speed. The only thing you can derive from torque is how fast the torque is changing at a given point on the curve.

I see what you're trying to say, but stop trying to explain it using terms you don't really understand.

Supra Hunter · 03-18-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allntrlundrgrnd

whats the deal w/ the fmic on that 350, looks funky

yea i guess so... LoL

thanks for the props fellas.... just such a coincidence i was playing around with one and this thread was on the main page

ilia · 03-18-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

NO

Torque is Force - HP is Applied torque over RPM

So you if you have a car that revs to 1k rpm and weighs 2000 lbs it will not really go anywhere without an extremely LONG single gear.

Torque is what actually wins races in cars. HP is an application of torque in a selected range of rpm, depending on a bunch of factors.

Maybe an Mech Engr can explain this better

You're wrong about torque winning races.

And you're right, probably a mechanical engineer could explain this better. I'm an aerospace engineer, so I can see why I'm having trouble.

How about this:

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

Read that, titled "The most ridiculous item of the day". It's all about how the phrase "Horsepower sells motor cars, but torque wins motor races." is completely backwards.

PS, he's an engineer too.

Pank · 03-19-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

Horsepower isn't derived from torque. Horsepower is a function of torque for a given speed. The only thing you can derive from torque is how fast the torque is changing at a given point on the curve.

I see what you're trying to say, but stop trying to explain it using terms you don't really understand.

I meant "derived" as an english term, not a mathematical term, but i see what you're saying.

also, all of this argument is retarded, since the fucking majority of it is based on the course, transmission and driver.
people should just post up cool rotary videos

nevaland9 · 03-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pank

its not that i hate rotaries or anything. In fact, this is quite possibly the coolest thing ever:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Au7F2ttEXWU

every time i watch it i'm like "SHIFT...SHIFT, SHIFT THE DAMN GEARS ALREADY"

hooo raaah, glorious throttle response,never ending rpms, light weight & good weight distribution.....to build a drag car. brilliant

just watched american history x & feel like being ignorant. that 4 rotor sounds bad ass but thats about it.

if they were so good they would have a bad ass forum like zilvia with mindless followers & we wouldnt be having this discussion.

sunnys14 · 03-21-2008, 01:26 AM

The reason why the 13b and 20b dont have much torque is because they only displace 1.3L and 2.0L. Its like swapping a SR with a huge turbo into that 350z.

HyperTek · 03-21-2008, 07:40 AM

you guys want torque? go drive a v8 swapped 350z

ilia · 03-21-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnys14

The reason why the 13b and 20b dont have much torque is because they only displace 1.3L and 2.0L. Its like swapping a SR with a huge turbo into that 350z.

Also because the "stroke"- the moment arm on the eccentric shaft is very small. The offset of the eccentric lobe is much smaller than the offset of a rod bearing journal on a crank.

2jzs14 · 04-13-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevaland9

hooo raaah, glorious throttle response,never ending rpms, light weight & good weight distribution.....to build a drag car. brilliant

just watched american history x & feel like being ignorant. that 4 rotor sounds bad ass but thats about it.

if they were so good they would have a bad ass forum like zilvia with mindless followers & we wouldnt be having this discussion.

www.rx7club.com

nevaland9 · 04-13-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2jzs14

www.rx7club.com

ill pass, wheres there flush wheel/ tire strech thread?

HyperTek · 04-13-2008, 04:27 PM

ehh rx7club sucks anyways lol.. theres 5 million
"post pics of your red fc" threads.. then the following week "post pics of your black fc"... shits annoying lol

stick to zilvia for styling cues.. go to rx7club if you need car specific issues lol

Pank · 04-13-2008, 04:53 PM

i'm glad he bumped an old thread to say that rx7club was a "bad ass" forum.

(it is not a badass forum)

an_orange_s2k · 04-13-2008, 07:26 PM

damn i love rotary engines. this is gonna be sick once its down, hopefully it doesnt shoot out an apex seal when it starts up

mr_240sx · 04-13-2008, 10:25 PM

theres just something about those 20b that is pure sex!

03-18-2008, 03:09 PM	#61
Pank Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Age: 38 Posts: 3,627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	who the fuck was talking about acceleration? when did i ever say HP didnt matter? all i said was HP is DERIVED from the lb/ft of torque, multiplied by rpm, divided by 5250. that is how you find hp. no argument, that is how its done. Torque * RPM Horsepower = ------------ 5252 I will give you that a rotary makes power, and it can make a shit load of it, and 20b's are light. what you're not understanding is that, compared to a comparable piston engine, they make much less torque under their peak. peak numbers dont mean shit in racing __________________ high performance driveway photography zenki s14---v8 fc rx7 my crappy flickr page (drift cars whoo)

03-18-2008, 03:24 PM	#62
allntrlundrgrnd Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Astoria, OR Posts: 2,460 Trader Rating: (17) Rides Gallery: allntrlundrgrnd Feedback Score: 17 reviews	whats the deal w/ the fmic on that 350, looks funky __________________ Kouki for sale!!

03-18-2008, 04:11 PM	#66
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	wowsers that must be extremely difficult to drive __________________ Keep it Classy

03-18-2008, 04:26 PM	#67
DUFFM4N Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern California...where i stretch out haters like a bad thong Age: 37 Posts: 7,371 Trader Rating: (40) Rides Gallery: DUFFM4N Feedback Score: 40 reviews	whenever i see/hear things about how rotary sucks...i always youtube the Mazda Scoot..."mazda 4 rotor", "13b"..."20b" its like music to my ears __________________ *things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who HUSTLE* CLICK HERE FOR MY BLOG

03-18-2008, 04:55 PM	#68
Pank Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Age: 38 Posts: 3,627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	its not that i hate rotaries or anything. In fact, this is quite possibly the coolest thing ever: [ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Au7F2ttEXWU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Au7F2ttEXWU[/ame] every time i watch it i'm like "SHIFT...SHIFT, SHIFT THE DAMN GEARS ALREADY" __________________ high performance driveway photography zenki s14---v8 fc rx7 my crappy flickr page (drift cars whoo)

03-18-2008, 07:22 PM	#69
Antihero983 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilmanton, NH Age: 36 Posts: 4,403 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: Antihero983 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGp3hCK-jRg[/ame] 20B 3 rotor in a AE86. fuck yeah. __________________ "So here I am, right back at it again, just like I've always been"

03-18-2008, 07:31 PM	#70
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	or __________________ Keep it Classy

03-21-2008, 01:26 AM	#76
sunnys14 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: a land far far away... Posts: 1,549 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	The reason why the 13b and 20b dont have much torque is because they only displace 1.3L and 2.0L. Its like swapping a SR with a huge turbo into that 350z.

03-21-2008, 07:40 AM	#77
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	you guys want torque? go drive a v8 swapped 350z __________________ Keep it Classy

04-13-2008, 04:27 PM	#81
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	ehh rx7club sucks anyways lol.. theres 5 million "post pics of your red fc" threads.. then the following week "post pics of your black fc"... shits annoying lol stick to zilvia for styling cues.. go to rx7club if you need car specific issues lol __________________ Keep it Classy

04-13-2008, 04:53 PM	#82
Pank Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Age: 38 Posts: 3,627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i'm glad he bumped an old thread to say that rx7club was a "bad ass" forum. (it is not a badass forum) __________________ high performance driveway photography zenki s14---v8 fc rx7 my crappy flickr page (drift cars whoo)

04-13-2008, 07:26 PM	#83
an_orange_s2k Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: SF Bay Area - Mile High Denver Posts: 1,555 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	damn i love rotary engines. this is gonna be sick once its down, hopefully it doesnt shoot out an apex seal when it starts up

04-13-2008, 10:25 PM	#84
mr_240sx Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ottawa Age: 35 Posts: 6,320 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: mr_240sx Feedback Score: 4 reviews	theres just something about those 20b that is pure sex!

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