Phlip

This is kinda crazy, the first time a lot of people have seen anything like this play out in public discourse for their entire lives...

Trayvon Martin case exposes worst in media | The Cutline - Yahoo! News

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Matej

This reminds of when American media were preoccupied with whether some Cuban kid should be returned to Cuba, while US planes were bombing Croatia killing thousands of children.

Corbic

God, I was in Highschool.

Or how about when some rich skank went to Aruba to party her underage ass off and disappeared.

Of course we blame Aruba and put out travel advisories, even though her home town had double the crime rate.

HalveBlue

Hmm...we never bombed Croatia. We bombed Yugoslavia (Serbia) in response to Yugoslavia's systematic ethnic cleansing of Kosovo.

A complex and complicated situation that has absolutely nothing to do with the killing of an unarmed black kid in Florida.

Corbic

You missed his point.

Where is the outrage on this bullshit?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29...#ixzz1qUu2oj6v

Phlip

Actually, I don’t see the similarities on this one, unless you’re speaking to be outraged with the person who called – then lied to – the 911 dispatcher in specifically saying the person had a gun. With that on-the-record knowledge, the cops will NOT have time to stop and ask the guy if he has a gun or frisk him, they can only assume (and hopefully under some perjury laws) that the person on the 911 recording who said he had a gun was not shitting them. That is totally not the same as some neighborhood watch going vigilante and pursuing someone and eventually shooting him.

A better "where's the outrage?" connection to attempt would be Oscar Grant, but I don't think that this "comparing this case to EVERYTHING except for this case" is necessarily endearing or conducive to an even slightly civilized discourse on the subject.

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Corbic

The kid that was shot and killed was not even the robber, just some black college kid.

The cops are trying to dump the blame on someone else. Another report says the cops fired from their vehicle.

Why do you believe the cops bullshit that "he gestured to his waist" as justifiable defense but Zimmerman is lying when he says that Trayvon knocked him over and assaulted him?

Phlip

I missed the part where the person they shot was not the robber... my bad

Because I still have no good reason to believe that Zimmerman was attacked. To me, it STILL sounds like he followed (against what he was told to do) Martin and confronted him, and when he was losing the ensuing scuffle shot him, perhaps from the embarrassment of getting his ass kicked. The difference is who started the confrontation, and who was armed (despite the fact that he should not have been as 'neighborhood watch').
Lastly, I refuse to support this victim blaming bullshit; "he got followed and eventually shot for being black and suspicious" is just the same as "she got raped because she had on sexy clothes".



That has been my position all along.
If George Zimmerman had not gotten out of his car to confront him (as outlined in EVERY neighborhood watch program), had not been armed while doing neighborhood watch (ditto), completing his duties to simply observe and report, then we’re probably not having this conversation and his life wouldn’t be pretty much ruined, which it will be, even if he comes off of this charged with nothing at all which he probably will. What this brings attention to, however, is a shittily written law that apparently allows loopholes in which someone can confront someone – perhaps even physically – and shoot that person dead when that confrontation does not go as intended. That is what really needs to change here. It is too late to bring back those killed under it, and that sucks just as much.
Wait, I don't have the genetic makeup to have thoughts like this, perhaps I should not be in this thread, I am supposed to be out committing some crimes and making excuses for why I can't get ahead. Sure, this runs totally counter to my degree, house, family and continued gainful employment, but apparently I am not really black then?

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Corbic

I agree and support this theory. My argument was the Cali Polices' explanation for gunning down a random black kid is just as bad.

I suspect they pulled up to a "suspicious black youth with a backpack" and yelled "hey you / freeze", he turns around not knowing what is going on and

*pop pop-pop pop pop*

The group of storm troopers mow him down not knowing who short first or even why they shot "everyone just started shooting"..

Ten minutes latter "uh, I thought he was going for a gun".

Happens a lot quite frankly. Pigs get all pumped up, one gets startled and they all dump their magazines.

Phlip

And for MOST of this, I agree with you, with the exception of this being (perhaps the only one) the time where - if they legitimately thought this was the guy - they had reason to believe he was armed. Now, if they were just randomly approaching any black dude in the area and harassing, then yes, I am with you 100%.
Unfortunate case of wrong place/wrong time, which will turn into a muddled mess of he-said/she-said and eventually end in the screwjob of the victim.

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EnemyS15

What a Circus Freak show this has turned into!

4factors really have turned this into something that it is not.

1- Media
2- Irrational people
3- The Racist crutch
4- Al Sharpton

If people would take out their emotions and approach this as rational unbiased people, seeking the truth, they will find that this more than likely is not race driven. Coming at this unbiased and without any emotional attachment, putting together what I do know about the case, this has been a situation that was merely 1 man taking the law into his own hands and consequently making an erroneous, spur of the moment decision, that ended an innocent childs life. Very tragic and very unfortunate.

You could almost piece this together just from what we do know about what happened that night and taking into consideration typical male behavior.

In the tapes, Zimmerman stated this 'kid is up to no good, looks like a GOON!', not koon like all those who are dead set it is racial motivated WANT it to sound like ((Enraged/emotional and with their mind already made up, those individuals hear what they want to hear). Which has zimmerman already profiling this kid. He also stated that 'it looks like he has something in his pocket'. Dispatch directed Zimmerman to not follow, but clearly zimmerman was going to follow and had continued to follow, since he made the comment "he is running". Treyvon just reacted like any young man would do if being followed by a stranger.

Zimmerman is already on edge and "high alert" ,since he already suspects this kid and assumes he has something in his pocket (which can easily be said, in that situation, he wasn't thinking it was a bottle or skittles, but more like a weapon). At this point Zimmerman is ready to operate on Fight or flight responses. Martin is pretty much at that point, being followed. What if (and this is purely based off of my speculations and what I perceive what went down, based off of the evidence and how I or any typical male WOULD REACT in such a situation) Zimmerman said "fuck this, im going in" to prevent Martin from getting away, approached him (instigating the confrontation) with words and with caution, Martin already scared and operating on fight or flight replied back in a way that ZImmerman didn't like, The 2 started to exchange heated words, and wanting to take control of the situation Zimmerman decided to apprehend Martin. Martin, not knowing what is going on, defends himself however he can. Zimmerman, who already wrongfully profiled this kid as a criminal, took it as an act of aggression and possible threat on his life, drew his fire arm at the heat of the moment, without thinking threw the situation, and took Martin's life. <---THAT seems like a more believable scenario than.. THAT FUCKER CHASED MARTIN AND GUNNED HIM DOWN CAUSE HE BLACK!... really?? grow up a bit captain crunch.

Neither one of their actions follows a case of racial hate crime. Why call the cops if you plan on killing the person? It only ties you to the crime, when you could just gun and run, without any of this nonsense and no ties/witnesses. Why wouldn't Martin call 911 if he felt his life was in danger or run to a home or start yelling for help, rather than just running away and then continuing off walking, on the phone with his Gf until it is almost too late? Probably , like Zimmerman, he was gonna stand his ground too.

This is a situation of a Man putting himself in the wrong predicament that made him choose to draw his firearm, without merit. Does it make it right? Absolutely not. Zimmerman carries a fire arm. He then understands the responsibility and consequences having a firearm at his side and using it. Zimmerman fucked up! He should be charged. Zimmerman took matters into his own hands, went and played cops, and now a child is dead. That is the situation, not this racism bullshit. Neither wanted to back down and this is what happened. Zimmerman probably got a bit of a beat down, but I believe most of his injuries and "Show" at the time was cause, once the moment went by, he realized what he did and how HUGE OF A SHIT STORM HE JUST GOT INTO and didn't want to end up going to jail for this. I bet he got a bit of a ass whooping, but not as severe as he states , everything else was either mocked up, or self inflicted to collaborate his story. In the end, BOTH PARTIES could've done stuff differently to avoid this confrontation. But in the end, I blame Zimmerman. The one who carried a firearm, the ADULT, the one who should be responsible for the safety of the neighborhood (being neighborhood watch) to have done the adult thing and the right thing. Which was to LEAVE IT TO THE AUTHORITIES!


In the end Justice and THE TRUTH will prevail.

















On a side note.... This situation has turned into a fucking joke......

From people "making a statement" with this hoodie thing and people boycotting the store he was at and other shit, to Spike Lee giving out the WRONG address and phone number of the "martins" causing an innocent family to flee their home.. I can't help but to see this anymore than a public stunt/mockery of a tragic situation. It's like a small group decide to start shit in the heat of a moment and it trickles off to others and before you know it.. you got an all scale riot in your hands. Actors and celebrities showing their "support" by wearing a hoodie or buying a treyvon shirt... If I was Martin's family, i'd be pissed. I'd want it all to stop and the let justice system and my means see it through. If these celebrities and actors and face book groups, boycotters, and rallys wanted to support his cause.... Help the family. Pay for his funeral, help the family with some counseling, offer to pay for dream team lawyers. Not put on a hoodie and eat some fucking skittles... How is that supporting? It's the perfect time to stand up and get your 5 mins of fame! They might mean well, but there are more productive and helpful ways of showing SUPPORT!

The one who really needs to gtfo and stop making this worse than what it is .. is
Ol Rev. Al sharp. He can't let this one go. Perfect p.r. he needs to continue to make himself relevant. Where is he when a black man dies by a another black man? Where is he when Hydra lacey (a black man) gunned down some WHITE cops in St. Pete? Where is he when a young black man was dismembered, being dragged by a truck, in a southern Us state,by a group of white guys?? Where are the rallys? Where are the protests? Where are the boycotts and blockage of public roads? This guy fades in and out like a a bad fashion fad, whenever opportunity knocks. When Ol Rev. starts to fade away in public's eyes, he finds a perfect opportunity to stir stuff up, and get himself back into the spotlight. In my opinion (I will probably get some heat, but this the spirit of debating)that man is a detriment to the black community and to the overall fight against Racism and Equality. This man is a plague to the cause. Stop allowing this man to "be the word" against racism and such. All he does is continuously stir up emotions, ramp up already emotionally charged folks and get them to act out their emotions and anger, rather than collectively and rationally move forward to correct and bring a matter to our attention. The store Martin was at is being boycotted, people attacking innocent families, blocking public roads, wanting to boycot SKITTLES AND THE TEA COMPANY!! <---- like they had something to do with the events that transpired... What does all of that bullshit do in the end, spark more problems and only delays the justice that is needed. People are picking "SIDES". Fuck that go team truth and team justice.


/end rant

KiLLeR2001

Here we go again...

Two Black Teens Fueled By Hate From Al Sharpton Brutally Beat a White Man in Sanford, FL

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irax

Fixed.

Right now its tough for a lot of people. People feel like they are powerless. They will protest anything that they think is related to their problems. Well everything except themselves. There are a lot of mistakes made by both parties. The media has already decided who the victim is.

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EnemyS15

But it is for the cause. They only do it to show support for Treyvon Martin and his family

S14DB

Where's the evidence that they were at the rally?

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KiLLeR2001

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Phlip

Looking through that site he posted, there doesn't need to be any evidence of anything.
In fact, I am not all the way sure that it isn't one of those satire sites

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Pure_JDM

It's only racist if whitey does it... If it's a black man, there isn't enough evidence... Just like the lack of fucking "racist" evidence in the Trayvon case. Oh wait, slavery happened, we all owe the black man for what their great grand parents went through (even HISPANIC Zimmerman).

Phlip

No one excused anyone for anything.
What was asked was a very valid question as to whether or not anyone had any proof that the boys were coming from the Sharpton thing. Please do not continue non-arguments against things that were not presented to the discussion. Besides, you’re just playing the slow-minded echo to things others have already said in this thread.

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S14DB

All the creditable news sites make no mention of the rally.


Shake baby, shake baby, one, two...
Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Lawyer Cites 'Shaken Baby Syndrome' As Defense

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BOROSUN

finally, some justice!
NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call | The Upshot - Yahoo! News

redline racer510

This crap has gone too far. When people are being threatened or hurt all because you feel emotional about some kids death, you know it has gone too far. F*ck Sharpton and Jesse, I'm sure they mean well but when they speak in public they add more fuel to the media fire and have blown this incident waaaaaayyyyyyy out of proportion. People die from unjust reasons all the time, hell my cousin died 2 years ago because some thug "thought" it was some guy he knew. It isn't fair that Trayvon died because he looked like a thug but that's part of life and shit happens. Things do happen at the right/wrong time and place and I'm sure all of us have had these moments. Playing the race card is a cheap excuse for not being able to justify things and is pretty lame in my eyes. The fact that Sharpton and Jesse only come out of hiding when things like this happen show how they sadistically feed off of other peoples unfortunate incidents to make themselves gain more respect and fame from the public. When was the last time you saw any one of these men come out and protest and make speeches when a person of another race has been wrongfully killed, that's right never. They are hypocrites of racial equality and only do the things they do to benefit themselves. True fighters for truth and justice do so when all of the evidence makes it pretty clear that the victim was innocent, not jumping to conclusion and acting on no basis. The Reverend may want to quote the famous John 8:7 "Let him without sinn cast the first stone".

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HyperTek

this just in.

Zimmerman's attorneys drop him. Attorneys for George Zimmerman drop representation in Florida shooting case | abc7.com

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Phlip

It's cool, he is panhandling his ass off on the internets for his defense, he will get beaucoup moneys to pay for better ones.
[link]


This just in, though:
Daniel Adkins' killer claims self-defense: Unarmed man shot, killed outside Arizona Taco Bell - Chicago News Report | Chicago News Blogs | Chicago Crime | News Blotter

How come the same people who supported George Zimmerman aren't up in arms to support this guy's right to defend himself?

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Highway Riding

George Zimmerman to face charges for Trayvon Martin

Florida authorities are reportedly about to issue an arrest warrant for George Zimmerman for the slaying of Trayvon Martin.

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has called a press conference for 6 p.m. Wednesday in Jacksonville, Fla.

She will announce unspecified criminal charges, according to numerous reports in Washington

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Phlip

Shit just got real for Zimmerman...

He'll walk, but shit is serious now

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Corbic

Per Florida.


msg lentgh

KiLLeR2001

Oh my if 2nd degree sticks I will have lost all hope for our judicial system. If Casey Anthony got to walk and Zimmerman gets life I will be speechless.

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Phlip

I lost faith in the judicial system years ago.
Zimmerman is walking on this shit...
his life is effectively ruined and he brought it all on himself by not heeding the "you don't need to do that," but at least he won't be a lifelong victim of forced sodomy.

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SimpleS14

He'll walk, but he can never live his life like he use to.

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