calebbo

1991 S13 Hatchback

This is my ignition switch


Here is the back wires



Here's what happened:
Dealership broke my key in the ignition.
They can't order a new ignition with key.

How do I wire a push button. I was planning on using rocker switches to turn on accessories. I want it to be just like having a key except minus the key.

Flip switch one
Flip switch two
Press start

The other threads on this topic go back to using a key which I don't have anymore bc that was my only copy.

I know the red and white wire is the 12v direct hot wire. What are the rest and what do I need to hook up to?

Black/ white stripe - starter
Black/ yellow stripe - second starter
White/red stripe - hot
Black/ green stripe - ???
Blue - accessories

jville

any auto parts store will sell you a key and ignition switch.

calebbo

I would rather have a button then take everything back apart. Is there a specific thread that I missed?

chrism4505

| 12V|white |+ |ignition harness
| STARTER|black/white
| SECOND STARTER|black/yellow
| IGNITION|black/red
| ACCESSORY|blue

Both starter wires must be energized during start
These colors should match up to the other side of the plug from ignition switch. Use meter to test

Ilya

Press start or press and hold to start?

calebbo

Thanks for the help! Ill update the intro for future searchers.

Push and hold to start I assume, since it would act like a key and you have to hold it a tad bit to start.

calebbo

Here is what I have so far:

Black/ white stripe - starter
Black/ yellow stripe - second starter
White/red stripe - hot
Black/ green stripe - ???
Blue - accessories

What is Black/ green stripe?

Ilya

How would you unlock the steering wheel?

calebbo

This is from the FSM. I cant seem to make sense of it right now.

Fuego

Simple answer: 12ga from bat/power cable to prefered switch, 12ga+quick disconnect to starter. Recommend a fuse somewhere in between.

That will get the starter to turn. Everything beyond that is up to you.

__________________

Ilya

Once you get it started, how do you turn it off? those are the things you should be thinking about, not the details yet.

Plus if you cant make sense of that schematic, should you really be doing what you are trying to do?

calebbo

Well the lock mechanism has been removed so the wheel is permanently unlocked. Thats why I have the ignition switch in my hand in my original post. Its the back part of the cylinder that the key goes into.

calebbo

Okay Im not completely new to wiring diagrams. But the thing is the switch in my hand has 5 wires. Im looking at the starting section of the electrical section of the FSM and I see nothing that has 5 wires coming from it with the colors that I have. Does that clarify my confusion? If I can see the wires I can see where they draw power from and what activates what. But from what I can tell nothing has

B/W
W/R
B/Y
B/G
BLUE

Ilya

What I would do is use a microcontroller, and some transistors to make a one button push start system that would use some state logic such as following:

-if brake pedal not pushed and in OFF state and start button pressed go to ACC On
-if brake pedal not pushed and in ACC ON state and start button pressed go to ON State
-if brake pedal not pushed and in ACC ON state or ON State and start button pressed for 2 seconds go to OFF state
-if brake pedal pushed and in any state go to START state until Alternator Voltage is at X Volts for Y amount of time(aka engine is running) or 3 seconds has passed (aka engine not starting) or some other logic that tells you that the engine is on. Make sure the start button presses are not registered during the starting sequence.

Transistors take the switch debouncing effects out of the equation which could wreak havoc on digital electronics like the ECU.

Ilya

There are other sections in the FSM that deal with the ignition switch. Try to find them and post them here, that way we have all the sources in one place when you do figure it out.

calebbo

Thats what Im trying to figure out. The key turns on the accessories then the ignition. Then when you turn the key it kills the accessories and starts the car right? Cant I do the same thing with toggle/rocker switches?

Ilya

Yes you could. Is this a track car or something that may be parked on the street?

When you go to start your car, yes the accessories get turned off to provide full amps to the starter as well as to prevent any back EMF from frying your Accessories.

feito

why dont you just pull the broken key out?

calebbo

So I can do this then

Run white/red (12v) to fuse to push button to starter

Run white/red (12v) to toggle switch 1 to black/white (starter) and black/yellow (starter 2)

Run white/red (12v) to toggle switch 2 to blue (accessories)

So when I start the car I can flip toggle switch 1 and push my start button till she cranks. Then I flip toggle switch 2 to turn my accessories on right?


She's a parked car but I'll install some hidden kill switches. Let's not get side tracked right now. I'm trying to figure the basic concept with this switch.

It's stuck in there. The dealership couldn't even get it out. Their lock smith guy couldn't either. I tried wd40 and paper clip with the key as a guide but no go. It's broken into three parts. Tip, main body, end with the circle handle.

calebbo

What is black/ green?

_kris

Black green is 2nd accessory

Radio and such

calebbo

So I can just attach that to BLUE right?

Croustibat

Whatever you do, remember the starter motor is not protected and you going to feed it 100+ amps continuous, easily 300 with the initial spike.

Advice: let someone who knows about electrics mess with it, or just get a new key.

Ilya

You are never going to see those amps at the ignition switch. So don't you worry.

calebbo

I was planning on wiring it up and seeing how many amps it pulls through that line. I have a fluke DVOM. So yes I can just attach black/green to blue right?

chrism4505

If you follow the harness from the switch, you will find a plug on the other side of that plug has the colors that I gave you. You can use the all the wires from the switch to make it work. The way the key works is as you turn it to the first position you power up the ignition circuit, second position turns on accessories circuit, third position is the start circuit. When you are in the start position, the switch kills power to the accessories circuit til you release and the switch falls back to the second position. You can wire it to work just as the key with one switch, some relays, and a start button. When you want to turn off just flip off the switch. Give me some time and I can draw up a wiring diagram.

chrism4505

This is quick and dirty but you should be able to follow it. There are a few ways to reach your goal. This way you will take a little longer but I think will be cleaner. You will have one toggle switch and a push button. If you Google race car ignition panel you will find several other ways but then you have to find a spot to mount the thing. One thing I do like about then is what seems to be a main shut off key, which can be add to the diagram I provided. Remember to test everything first. I'm just going off memory and what like bit of research from the forums.

Attached Images

1426301529636.jpg (109.8 KB, 26 views)

calebbo

Just ordered 3 relays and a race car start setup lol
Thanks that is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

calebbo

When you say I can use all the wires from the switch you mean the switch in my hand on my first post right?

As in these wires

chrism4505

Yes, you will use those wires. The relays, when wired to them as the diagram show, will trigger them just like the key. If you follow those wires back under the dash you will find the plug. The wire colors change on the other side. If you take note of the wire colors and pin location. You can unplug the harness and wire it at a bench. Making it a plug and play set up when finished. Again use meter the wires. Here is how the wires will test. The hot wire will of course always have 12 volt, ignition will have power when key turned and remain power through out start cycle. The accessories circuit will power when key is turned but will drop out when starter is activated and power back after car starts. Start wires will only have power during start cycle. You should have two starter wires. Test everything and if the color (that are on other side of plug) don't test as I described. Let me know and I can do some more research.