JeremyR

ughhh i need money. maybe the government should bail me out.

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RJF

What?






.

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sillyvia13

Bailout Bill: Full Text Of Plan

*edit, I cant find the link I read it from.. I will and will drop it back in...
They have 50 billion for auto makers...

its a hoax...

very interesting clip for ya all! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqvZw...sresearch.com/

sillyvia13

This was my thought about 3 days ago... almost to the T!

drift freaq

Ok there are just to many posts in this thread that are full of economic bullshit.

If you think greed is the only thing that runs this country, well then Obama would never have been elected.
For the people who think Bush got money on the bailout your an economic idiot and really need to go back to school and study economics, puts and calls, hedge funds, secured assets and a lot more. Otherwise you have no room to speak and quoting internet video's is the blind leading the blind.

Do I agree bailouts need to end? Yes, do I feel certain things do need to be done even if I do not like it? Yes.
I agreed with Phlip earlier in this thread because its true. GM and most of Detroit are managed by people who want to do what they think America wants. Not what America wants when it comes to cars.
This has been this way since the 1970's the first time U.S. Automakers got hit with a crisis and poor sales due their lack of understanding American consumers.
Unfortunately they let their own bullheadedness rule the day. They also got hogtied by the Unions. The Unions are doing them no favors. Hell Boeing got struck by Unions a month ago in the middle of this financial crisis, which was severely crippling Boeing's ability to make money. Fortunately they came to the table quickly and settled things.
Was it a bright move on the Unions part? No it was petty, it was I want something without thinking about the impact that most selfish Americans suffer from these days.
God forbid we got into a major war like in WWII because your selfish asses would not want to support the country. You all would be crying, why should I help the government, why should I help the corporations making the stuff that will will the war.

Fucking shit people, We are all in this. If these guys you suffer. Stop thinking its about Wall street, its about the current adminstration. Its fucking about the damn country. These companies are to large to let fail. The consequences would be catastrophic and would push us into a depression. Wooo hoo I want a depression because I am unhappy that I have to suffer. NOT!

You think people on Wall street are not suffering, you think people in these corporations are not suffering?
Where were you, when you were spending more on your credit card than you could afford which I actually saw lots of people in the 240 community doing to get put SR's in and whatnot. Everyone took advantage of the situation.

The automakers made their typical mistakes. Bail them out, with provisions that Phlip and I both said needed to be required. Move on and suffer a little but fuck. don't do it and we are all fucked. Oh and for the ones saying let it happen and suffer. Ya I hope you like walking because you will not even be able to afford your fucking old damn 240 or Z car or whatever.

Oh and stop reading that internet bullshit calling the bailout plan a Hoax. If your going to subscribe to conspiracy theory 101 just get the fuck out of this thread right fucking now.

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40daws

Phillip has killed this already.

I have read where the dealer network is bloated,sort of like the housing bubble, and roughly 3600 dealers need to close. These are all Domestic dealers they are talking about.
This won't have near the impact on the economy as the closing of a MANUFACTURER will, but does need to happen.

ronmcdon

Ok, so lets say theoretically you do get the government to bail out GM. What then?

What's the long term solution to this? Pay an annual tribute of 50 bill to US automanufacters, no strings attached?

Brian

They sell cars again.
People decide to spend money again.
Americans have faith in America.
etc...

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SimpleS14

I'd like to see GM and Ford survive. As for Chrysler, I'd like to see bits and pieces of them sold off and absorbed by other companies (or private interest).

The market changed at a drastic pace (literally days) that the Big 3 could not regroup in a timely manner.

I think the fundamental flaw lies in management and not preparing an infrastructure of scalability and flexibility. For example, Honda and Toyota and retool their factories with ease (mostly software driven) when they have to shift production from a truck to a car.

I honestly think UAW should die....its crazy what salaries some of these people get when COL (cost of living) is low. I do like they get benefits for higher education (tuition reimbursement)...but I don't know if a majority of them actually take advantage of that.

The big 3 tarnished there image for too long that the current generation hardly gives them a look when it comes to a new car.

I'm just wondering why there wasn't much focus on cars as much as trucks. Sure profit margins are not as big....but the bigger picture is market share mated to customer retention. It's crazy how most of the cars on the road are imports vs. domestic...heck my whole family owns nothing but imports.

As for the bailout...it should happen with some strict regulations and a drastic change to management across GM, FoMoCo, Chrysler and most importantly UAW.

Does anyone see UAW fading or being quasi-government?

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Antihero983

hmm ok...

Chrysler has fucked up and been bailed out once back in the Reagan days, so fuck them, they didnt learn and they failed.

GM: I say bail them out, but make them get rid of buick.

Ford:Eh sure why not, but make them get rid of Mercury.

Buick and Mercury have no place in today's automarket, and shoulve been phased out years ago.

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HyperTek

they should look into selling bonds, which would promise a vehicle or huge discount in the future after maturing.. That would help.. People may feel like purchasing bonds .. i dunno

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DrtyRat

Couldn't have said it better. I wonder how many of the poster's who are saying let the big 3 fail, actually work for or have family/friends that are employed by them. The employees who do the grunt work, are not responsible, in the big picture, of the failure of the management to implement the production of sound products.
When it comes to the idea of bailouts, I'm w/BH, kinda. I hate handouts, and I don't feel like those who wanted to live the "lifestyles of the rich & famous" on a minimum-wage salary deserve to be bailed out. However, I know its necessary, in order for the country to "heal itself"(read:economically responsible people foot the bill for the idiots).

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Str8 Rippin

Gm will be having problems till like 2011 or something (too lazy to look it up) due to their obligations to their pension plan so even if we bail them out now it will still be a rough road ahead.

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Phlip

GOP to Detroit: Drop dead - Autos

Y'all stock up on non-perishables and weapons.

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sillyvia13

lol...
Don't forget a nice healthy pile of ammo.
And Water filters.

YouTube - ELIJAH CUMMINGS IS NO CHUMP!

Matej

How is it not illegal for someone to keep giving themselves billions of dollars in bonuses every year while in charge of a corporation that's too big to fail yet steadily heading towards bankruptcy, and then walk away with the money calling it a good run and expect others to clean up their mess?
In my opinion the first place the bailout money should be coming from is the pockets of those people.

SexPanda

Either way I see us as being, to some degree, fucked in da butt.

1: millions lose jobs, economy falls face first, shit hits the fan, bam: no more us and a. (how we know it)
2: We bail out the big 3, thousands still lose jobs, economy almost goes face first, higher taxes to cover it, country is deeper into debt, and in 10 years we'll be in the same position because history repeats itself.

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TurDz

There's no way the government would ever bail out Toyota. Toyota's TPS system was designed for this exact situation of tough times. They designed their manufacturing system to be flexible and waste-free...I feel that all of their investment in quality/efficiency/improvement would be for nothing if their competition was simply bailed out.

This bailout reminds me of "distribution of wealth." Is this bailout loans or free money?

On the other hand....hardworking union workers shouldn't suffer because of bad executive decisions from the big 3.....tough call

Food for thought:
Editorials & Opinion | A questionable bailout of America's Big 3 automakers | Seattle Times Newspaper

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duffman1278

Its a tough call, I mean the consequences by not bailing them out would greatly hurt our market, which seems to go lower and lower with no end in sight.

But at the same time where does it end? First the banks which I believed needed it. But any way, the question is, who would be next? I forgot who said it but one analyst mentioned that in reality they shouldn't even be bailing out anyone, that companies should collapse if they get this bad.

However, I think they should due to the vast amount of jobs and impact that they play in our market. Its not a small portion.

Phlip

As I think about this, I see the necessity for it, but I am a bit bitter...

If I am loaned money from a bank or credit card, I am to pay some interest in the repaying of those funds, no?
WHY THE FUCK would these companies not have to pay BACK the taxpayers for bailing their asses out?

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iwishiwas-all*

yes, absolutely, but they should all be penalized, I am gonna jump out on a limb and say the suv='ed the downfall of america, and we are seeing it bite them in their asses..... why do you think im looking for a foreign job, talk about job security lol.

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iwishiwas-all*

the downfall of america waits if detroit has to shut down.

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sillyvia13

Phlip

That, Gabe, lies largely in all that it would take down with it... I think I mentioned it somewhere in this thread, piggybacking on something exitspeed had stated in another.

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RJF

What's wrong with them filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy? The airlines have done it and survived.

Chapter 11 will allow them time to reorganize, renegotiate contracts with the unions and cut costs to try and become more efficient.

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ronmcdon

Agreed. I think Agenemnon mentioned this earlier, and I think this is the most strategic approach. The Unions are GM's biggest financial liability. More than anything else, Chapter 11 will give GM the opportunity to reduce their overhead and allow them a fair chance at being competitive in the auto industry. Have the government help them (or buy their stocks at discount) after they file bankruptcy and reorganize accordingly.

It's also best for the workers in the long run and the economy as well. They workers might not have the salaries and the benefits they're used to, but at least they still have their jobs for the time being. I think a lot of ppl here might have the misconception that filing for bankruptcy means going entirely belly-up, having to lay everyone in the company off, liquidate their assets to their debtors, etc but that's not necessarily true.

if you must bail someone out, at least do it at the right time.

OptionZero

Declaring bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears, nor does it mean that there will be a sudden vacuum in jobs.

If the contracts disappear, then the union (if it has a modicum of logic) can re-negotiate on more reasonable terms.

This doesn't have to go on the taxpayers.

It should be on the heads on the unions.

Question for the economists:

Why do we need unions AND minimum wage?

It seems redundant, and in the long-run, creates just an additional layer of bureacracy which separate decision making from reality.

HyperTek

whats the worlds prospective towards american cars? maybe they can try opening up more exporting of american cars??

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sillyvia13

I doubt anyone wants to buy anything from us...
We have a bad rap.
We have been killing people in middle east for a long time... not a good business trait. Not to mention our cars suck. We drive imported cars and BUY JDM! , we did it to ourself.

Dont get me wrong on my posts... I wish no ill will on any human, but our system is BUNK! too much money to be any care for humans.

If money was less a factor in life we'd be fine.
But thats not the way of the world at the moment.

I hope for CHANGE!
guess I gotta wait 4 years tho.

Agamemnon

Yes. I'm not going to blame the UAW for all of GM troubles, but they're a signicant amount of dead weight. The UAW has to realize that strong-arming money out of GM is merely cutting off your nose to spite your face. The high salaries that the Unions demand well lead to their own demise.