6 speed ka24de ??? - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

cdlong · 10-01-2008, 09:14 PM

6>5

that's why.

Pblesh85 · 10-02-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdlong

6>5

that's why.

What he said ^

I prefere a 6 to a 5 for one, its more fun to drive.

Plus when you auto cross with a 6 speed you are always in your power band. The same when drifting. Its just what I learned on.

Plus when you take long drives its better for mpg.

tastyratz · 10-02-2008, 07:43 AM

so thinking about things... the s15 tranny is known as the glass tranny because the gears are thin and fragile right? Are there any other problems with it?
What about having new ones machined out of some stronger materials? what are the stock ones made of? I wonder if it can just be built up for a reasonable cost...

Could have nearly oem fitment and bolt right up with little to no adapting.

cdlong · 10-02-2008, 08:18 AM

glass is a bit of an over statement. it breaks sooner than a SR 5 speed because the gears are thinner to fit in the same space. how much sooner is yet to be seen, by me anyway, if someone can quantify it, i'd like to know.

you could cryo treat the gears. i doubt you'd get a much stronger material custom made for less cost than a better stronger transmission and mount kit.

tastyratz · 10-02-2008, 09:05 AM

Cryotreating them wont really increase strength. Cryotreating is an EXCELLENT way to reduce wear and fatigue. Synchros would last MUCH longer when cryotreated but gears would only really last longer if you grind them a lot (since gears wont usually wear otherwise).

From what I have heard the 6 speed tranny's don't hold up to extended levels of abuse, and anything over 250whp is pushing it on them (I wasn't the one to invent the nickname "glass tranny's) Most people don't go ka-t and stay under that level if they consider something like a 6 speed swap. I just wonder what the stock gears are made of and what it would cost to replace them with something stronger. I wish I could see some pictures of an sr tranny opened up.

Om1kron · 10-02-2008, 09:24 AM

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

Pblesh85 · 10-02-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

Alot of people on here like the phrase "tried and proven". Thats cool, im a firm believer that if its not broken, dont fix it.

But have you ever owned a car with a six speed ? Not just driven, but owned it. I have had two cars with them and 5 or 6 with a five speed(4 240sx's). I like how the car feels with an extra gear. Im not trying to convince anyone to do it. I really dont care what you do to your car. You own it, and its yours to mess with.

I just want to try it out and see if "I think its worth it" or not.

Om1kron · 10-02-2008, 10:46 AM

No but of course to each his own, i'm really not knocking it. I'm just saying the money spent on R&D to make the car slower may not be so promising to you.

But hey it always takes that one person willing to spend the money to try something out and then from there it becomes cheaper when it's commonplace. But without the supply and demand there for such a thing to be done it would be an elite $$$ modification.

To answer your original question. No I have not owned any 6 gear cars, I've driven an IS250 and didn't even remember I had a 6th gear. I had it in 5th the whole time!

Pblesh85 · 10-02-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

No but of course to each his own, i'm really not knocking it. I'm just saying the money spent on R&D to make the car slower may not be so promising to you.

But hey it always takes that one person willing to spend the money to try something out and then from there it becomes cheaper when it's commonplace. But without the supply and demand there for such a thing to be done it would be an elite $$$ modification.

To answer your original question. No I have not owned any 6 gear cars, I've driven an IS250 and didn't even remember I had a 6th gear. I had it in 5th the whole time!

When I did my 5 speed swap in my coupe that I just sold, I always wanted to shift into 6th. Since I was used to driving my z28.

I feel a bit "incomplete" with out the extra gear.

PRADOgy · 10-02-2008, 02:44 PM

True 6 speed keeps it in the tourque bend...If your gona have low power then i think the 6 speed may be beneficial. But if your going to do big horsepower i think the gears being that much longer are better (drifting wise at least)

twistedsymphony · 10-02-2008, 03:16 PM

the number of gears is moot it has everything to do with the ratio.

the problem with the s15 transmission has nothing to do with the fact that it has 6 gears and everything to do with the fact that they crammed a 6-speed into a 5-speed housing (FWIW the early STi transmissions were the same deal).

If you have a rear end matched to your application then the number of gears in the transmission doesn't even matter.

Who ever was talking about people having problems shifting in a 6-speed over a 5... that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have NEVER seen a 6-speed with a different shift pattern since on a 6-speed reverse is WAY off to one side or the other and usually has a lock out if the vehicle is in motion... meaning that while you're actually driving 1-5 all occupy the same EXACT location they would if it were a 5-speed.

The only real difference between a properly setup 6 speed and a similar 5 speed is that based on the radio differences they usually stick the "extra gear" between 1st and 2nd, for instance on the S15, and Sti Trans the top gear on the 5 speed and the 6 speed is essentially the same, your 0-60 times are longer because you have to shift twice, similarly your drag times would be a bit longer too.

on something like Auto-x or other track racing you're better off with a 6-speed like this because it fills the hole you normally get where 1st is too low and 2nd is too high.

On something like a t-56 1-5 are spaced normally (maybe a little tighter) and the top gear is really only there for fuel economy purposes...

like ANY part there are benefits and pitfalls to chosing one over the other... just grouping "5-speeds" and "6-speeds" is stupid IMO because there are so many differences from one to the next without considering the specific configuration claiming one is universally better than the other is simply fanboyish IMO.

Sileighty_85 · 10-02-2008, 03:55 PM

Just buy this one $$$$$ NISMO Silvia 180SX Reinforced Cross 6-Speed Transmission $$$$$ and then you wont have to worry

Pblesh85 · 10-02-2008, 03:59 PM

Its nice but more than I can spend right now. If I do not buy my six speed set up before deployment I will buy this.

Om1kron · 10-02-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedsymphony

Who ever was talking about people having problems shifting in a 6-speed over a 5... that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have NEVER seen a 6-speed with a different shift pattern since on a 6-speed reverse is WAY off to one side or the other and usually has a lock out if the vehicle is in motion...

Um you did factor in the fact I mentioned a cable driven 6 speed and not a hydraulic 6 speed

Z U L8R · 10-02-2008, 08:24 PM

t56 ls2 ftw, 80mph @ 1500rpm, almost idling ^_^ mpg mpg mpg

Dave :P

irax · 10-03-2008, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z U L8R

t56 ls2 ftw, 80mph @ 1500rpm, almost idling ^_^ mpg mpg mpg

Dave :P

LOW RPM DOES NOT ALWAYS = MPG!

peak torque at RPM = MPG!

the only reason why the LSx has great mpg while cruising on the free way is because of its flat torque band. You have to put into consideration air/fuel ratio.

***S14DB*** · 10-03-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

Um you did factor in the fact I mentioned a cable driven 6 speed and not a hydraulic 6 speed

Engine designed for a transmission? Isn't in the other way around?

Do you know anything about gear ratios?

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?

irax · 10-03-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

Engine designed for a transmission? Isn't in the other way around?

Do you know anything about gear ratios?

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?

I think he's talking about FWD 6speed transmissions though i never heard of a hydraulic shift linkage.

***S14DB*** · 10-03-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irax

I think he's talking about FWD 6speed transmissions though i never heard of a hydraulic shift linkage.

I have only seen Cable and Rod.

Om1kron · 10-03-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S14DB

Do you know anything about gear ratios?

Not especially no. Got any recommended reading?

Quote:

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?

Yes that's what I meant, sorry.

10-01-2008, 09:14 PM	#31
cdlong Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Age: 40 Posts: 1,845 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: cdlong Feedback Score: 0 reviews	6>5 that's why. __________________

10-02-2008, 07:43 AM	#33
tastyratz Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: nh Posts: 995 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	so thinking about things... the s15 tranny is known as the glass tranny because the gears are thin and fragile right? Are there any other problems with it? What about having new ones machined out of some stronger materials? what are the stock ones made of? I wonder if it can just be built up for a reasonable cost... Could have nearly oem fitment and bolt right up with little to no adapting. __________________

10-02-2008, 08:18 AM	#34
cdlong Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Age: 40 Posts: 1,845 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: cdlong Feedback Score: 0 reviews	glass is a bit of an over statement. it breaks sooner than a SR 5 speed because the gears are thinner to fit in the same space. how much sooner is yet to be seen, by me anyway, if someone can quantify it, i'd like to know. you could cryo treat the gears. i doubt you'd get a much stronger material custom made for less cost than a better stronger transmission and mount kit. __________________

10-02-2008, 09:05 AM	#35
tastyratz Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: nh Posts: 995 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Cryotreating them wont really increase strength. Cryotreating is an EXCELLENT way to reduce wear and fatigue. Synchros would last MUCH longer when cryotreated but gears would only really last longer if you grind them a lot (since gears wont usually wear otherwise). From what I have heard the 6 speed tranny's don't hold up to extended levels of abuse, and anything over 250whp is pushing it on them (I wasn't the one to invent the nickname "glass tranny's) Most people don't go ka-t and stay under that level if they consider something like a 6 speed swap. I just wonder what the stock gears are made of and what it would cost to replace them with something stronger. I wish I could see some pictures of an sr tranny opened up. __________________

10-02-2008, 09:24 AM	#36
Om1kron Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 40 Posts: 6,879 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it. Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear? Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof? I guess people don't really think about these things. This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself. It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own! __________________ Wayne

10-02-2008, 10:46 AM	#38
Om1kron Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 40 Posts: 6,879 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	No but of course to each his own, i'm really not knocking it. I'm just saying the money spent on R&D to make the car slower may not be so promising to you. But hey it always takes that one person willing to spend the money to try something out and then from there it becomes cheaper when it's commonplace. But without the supply and demand there for such a thing to be done it would be an elite $$$ modification. To answer your original question. No I have not owned any 6 gear cars, I've driven an IS250 and didn't even remember I had a 6th gear. I had it in 5th the whole time! __________________ Wayne

10-02-2008, 02:44 PM	#40
PRADOgy Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Japan Age: 35 Posts: 1,161 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: PRADOgy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	True 6 speed keeps it in the tourque bend...If your gona have low power then i think the 6 speed may be beneficial. But if your going to do big horsepower i think the gears being that much longer are better (drifting wise at least) __________________ しょうがない

10-02-2008, 03:16 PM	#41
twistedsymphony Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NH Age: 38 Posts: 399 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	the number of gears is moot it has everything to do with the ratio. the problem with the s15 transmission has nothing to do with the fact that it has 6 gears and everything to do with the fact that they crammed a 6-speed into a 5-speed housing (FWIW the early STi transmissions were the same deal). If you have a rear end matched to your application then the number of gears in the transmission doesn't even matter. Who ever was talking about people having problems shifting in a 6-speed over a 5... that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have NEVER seen a 6-speed with a different shift pattern since on a 6-speed reverse is WAY off to one side or the other and usually has a lock out if the vehicle is in motion... meaning that while you're actually driving 1-5 all occupy the same EXACT location they would if it were a 5-speed. The only real difference between a properly setup 6 speed and a similar 5 speed is that based on the radio differences they usually stick the "extra gear" between 1st and 2nd, for instance on the S15, and Sti Trans the top gear on the 5 speed and the 6 speed is essentially the same, your 0-60 times are longer because you have to shift twice, similarly your drag times would be a bit longer too. on something like Auto-x or other track racing you're better off with a 6-speed like this because it fills the hole you normally get where 1st is too low and 2nd is too high. On something like a t-56 1-5 are spaced normally (maybe a little tighter) and the top gear is really only there for fuel economy purposes... like ANY part there are benefits and pitfalls to chosing one over the other... just grouping "5-speeds" and "6-speeds" is stupid IMO because there are so many differences from one to the next without considering the specific configuration claiming one is universally better than the other is simply fanboyish IMO. __________________ Everything you need to know about the S-Chassis -- CollectorsEdition.org -- \| -- 240sxONE.com --

10-02-2008, 03:55 PM	#42
Sileighty_85 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Misawa, Japan Posts: 6,815 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Just buy this one $$$$$ NISMO Silvia 180SX Reinforced Cross 6-Speed Transmission $$$$$ and then you wont have to worry __________________ 後輪駆動車１番 1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp 1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now) 1986 SR86 - 200ish 1990 R32 GTR - 320hp Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online #/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

10-02-2008, 03:59 PM	#43
Pblesh85 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tacoma wa Age: 36 Posts: 1,897 Trader Rating: (48) Feedback Score: 48 reviews	Its nice but more than I can spend right now. If I do not buy my six speed set up before deployment I will buy this. __________________ Do you suffer from vaginal dryness...

10-02-2008, 08:24 PM	#45
Z U L8R Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia Age: 39 Posts: 1,194 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	t56 ls2 ftw, 80mph @ 1500rpm, almost idling ^_^ mpg mpg mpg Dave :P __________________ RB25 280z GT30/76R 441hp/381tq [email protected]

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