PBM solid riser and collars - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Stunt'nSlide · 10-12-2011, 11:04 AM

My whole subframe bushings feel like there shot. Theres a bunch of noise back there and the whole rear end feels loose. I've looked into PBM for there solid subframe risers and I was wondering if it's recomended to pair them up with the subframe collars? Or would a better route be Poly subframe bushings and PBM collars? Thanks

Zerolift Autolab · 10-12-2011, 11:10 AM

Track Car or Street Car ?

thefro526 · 10-12-2011, 11:12 AM

PBM Solid risers replace the sub frame bushing entirely. There is no need for collars with the risers. The riser is just a solid bushing that raises the sub frame ~1/2".

Collars are designed primarily for cars with worn sub frame bushings that aren't completely shot, they help to stiffen the bushing up a bit without needing to pull the entire sub frame and removing the old bushings.

Stunt'nSlide · 10-12-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerolift Autolab

Track Car or Street Car ?

it will be both. I plan on doing a lot of drift events once I get my suspension squared away. But it will be used on the street.

Stunt'nSlide · 10-12-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

PBM Solid risers replace the sub frame bushing entirely. There is no need for collars with the risers. The riser is just a solid bushing that raises the sub frame ~1/2".

Collars are designed primarily for cars with worn sub frame bushings that aren't completely shot, they help to stiffen the bushing up a bit without needing to pull the entire sub frame and removing the old bushings.

ok thanks. Would you recommend the risers? or go Poly bushings and PBM collars?

s14unimog · 10-12-2011, 11:59 AM

I wouldn't recommend the solid bushings from PBM b/c I don't personally approve of epoxying the bushing into place b/c they're trying to appeal to a market of car owners who don't have access to a press. Press fit or its not going in my car.

SPLparts.com /thread

PoorMans180SX · 10-12-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

I wouldn't recommend the solid bushings from PBM b/c I don't personally approve of epoxying the bushing into place b/c they're trying to appeal to a market of car owners who don't have access to a press. Press fit or its not going in my car.

SPLparts.com /thread

Your post makes no sense.

Anyway, OP...

ES bushings aren't compatible with collars.

ES bushings will be more comfortable.

I personally love solid bushings/risers, street or track. I just cut out some rubber gasket material and put on top where it meets the body in my street car. Less noise, same feel.

s14unimog · 10-13-2011, 08:03 AM

^ what do you not get. PBM undersized their collars slightly so they'll drop in. That state the use of an epoxy to hold them in place. It makes plenty of sense. BTW, SPL's come with rubber isolators.

blueshark123 · 10-13-2011, 10:23 AM

I actually tought that pbm was press in fit also they just say to use epoxy to make a tighter bond ?

Stunt'nSlide · 10-13-2011, 10:31 AM

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm gonna do more research on PBM and SPL and see what one is best. I love PBM parts and I have a bunch of friends running there coilovers and multilink saying it's the best set up they've ever had.

Stunt'nSlide · 10-13-2011, 10:50 AM

I think I'm going SPL thanks guys. Heard a lot of good reviews and it comes with the rubber pieces for less noise and fully adjustable whether you want your subframe 1/2" 1/4" closer to the frame or you can do OEM spec with the spacers they provide. And I like the idea of a tight fit. People were saying the epoxy for the PBM's is used because they are not very tight and have a bit of play, so the epoxy is used for ease of installation. I will post a review here on zilvia once I slap them on in the next couple of weeks.

s14unimog · 10-13-2011, 11:02 AM

Told ya. They did this b/c people are lazy/cheap and don't want to press them into place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueshark123

I actually tought that pbm was press in fit also they just say to use epoxy to make a tighter bond ?

~Slip fit, epoxy-it-in installation (no press needed)
POWERED BY MAX:

Good choice. I'm running those as well. Very nice parts.

Zerolift Autolab · 10-13-2011, 11:10 AM

We have used Stance and SPL Subframe Bushing sin the past.
Easiest method of install is to put the aluminum bushings in the freezer for a little while, and heat up the subframe where the bushing presses into.
They will install much easier.

Stunt'nSlide · 10-13-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

Told ya. They did this b/c people are lazy/cheap and don't want to press them into place.

~Slip fit, epoxy-it-in installation (no press needed)
POWERED BY MAX:

Good choice. I'm running those as well. Very nice parts.

Looks like a good set up. Where did you buy yours? cheapest I could find is $158 shipped

Stunt'nSlide · 10-13-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerolift Autolab

We have used Stance and SPL Subframe Bushing sin the past.
Easiest method of install is to put the aluminum bushings in the freezer for a little while, and heat up the subframe where the bushing presses into.
They will install much easier.

Yea I heard about freezing them. How long would you say?

PoorMans180SX · 10-13-2011, 01:46 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with epoxying them into place. You're probably missing a few fries out of your happy meal if you think there is.

I've installed both in my own cars, and PSM's are way easier and do exactly the same thing, unless you want to raise the subframe less.

Also, there are enough subframe bushing reviews, don't waste the bandwidth.

s14unimog · 10-13-2011, 02:35 PM

sure there is. It's unnecessary. They're most definitely not going to fall out but what advantage could this extra process possibly provide you? Still I see no reason why my post doesn't make sense.

Ya know, you really get beside yourself when you enter in these discussion. You're the same idiot who argued that bump stops aren't an important feature for a lowered car.

PoorMans180SX · 10-13-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14unimog

sure there is. It's unnecessary. They're most definitely not going to fall out but what advantage could this extra process possibly provide you? Still I see no reason why my post doesn't make sense.

Ya know, you really get beside yourself when you enter in these discussion. You're the same idiot who argued that bump stops aren't an important feature for a lowered car.

What advantage? Maybe the fact that I can install them in my driveway with hand tools instead of needing to bust out the impact gun and buy bolts and crap to press them in? Or worse yet, take them to a shop and pay to have someone else use a press and put them in. What advantage does pressing them in give you?

My point in that argument was that your suspension should never be on the bumpstops, so a bumpstop was not the most import aspect in choosing what kind of suspension you run, because everyone was getting all anal about it, just like you are now about press in bushings. Maybe you should stop labeling your anal-retentiveness as fact or "the best".

I also started the biggest suspension thread in the s-chassis world and have learned a lot. No thanks to people like you.

s14unimog · 10-13-2011, 07:29 PM

Your arrogance about that thread is hilarious. There is a reality to building cars and needing the tools to do so. The design of that subframe calls for a pressed bushing, it's simple, effective, reliable, replaceable and consistent. Powered By Max made the parts the way they did solely to make more money b/c it would appeal to more people who can't figure out how to make that equipment available to them.

I call things like I see them. Plain and simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stunt'nSlide

Looks like a good set up. Where did you buy yours? cheapest I could find is $158 shipped

SPLparts.com I can't recall what they cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stunt'nSlide

Yea I heard about freezing them. How long would you say?

I left them in the freezer over night.

PoorMans180SX · 10-13-2011, 10:52 PM

I pointed out the roll center thread not out of arrogance, but to highlight the fact that the people that have posted in it have taught me a lot, and that I now know what I'm talking about. Just because I argue with people does not make me an idiot. I'm either ignorant or right, and I'll freely admit when I'm wrong if proven so.

Just because someone doesn't have access to a press, or doesn't want to pay someone else to install parts doesn't make them any less of a car owner, builder, or enthusiast. The epoxy method is just as effective, and 100% proven.

nieko · 10-13-2011, 11:19 PM

Neither of them NEED a press.

I've used the PSM ones, and I had to actually tap them in with a rubber mallet. Once it's installed into the vehicle, shit is irrelevant anyways! Unless they are way smaller, BUT THEy AREN't.

And the SPL ones, I had to do the EXACT same thing. Tap them in with a mallet. It was SLIGHTLY tougher. But still not an issue.

Neither of them needed a press, bada boom, bada bing.

If you just want solid bushings and to raise your subframe go PSM.

If you want to run an s14 subframe with solid bushings, OR want to tilt your subframe, go SPL.

End discussion.

Howie Felter Snatch · 10-14-2011, 02:05 AM

I guess one point I'd like to make is how its sort of a bad idea to raise the subframe 1/2" on a S13 because it will induce more anti-squat in a chassis/subframe that already has plenty of anti-squat from the factory.

More anti-squat = better response, but at the cost of loosing traction. I'd highly recommend leaving it at the factory height (subframe). Subframe risers for S13 subframes but a no-no in my book..

Subframe risers are fine for S14/S15 subframes though since those have less anti-squat and more traction designed into them. Just look at the pick-up points of the RLCA on the subframe of a S14/S15.. Notice how they're more flat/level?

s14unimog · 10-14-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Just because I argue with people does not make me an idiot. I'm either ignorant or right, and I'll freely admit when I'm wrong if proven so.

Just because someone doesn't have access to a press, or doesn't want to pay someone else to install parts doesn't make them any less of a car owner, builder, or enthusiast. The epoxy method is just as effective, and 100% proven.

For one that argument was against the simple notion that a bump stop is an integral part of a suspension system and should not be omitted. You argued that a stiffer spring rate, which either met a coil bind or the forces applied could no possibly compress the travel anymore. I just don't agree, and my point parallels design practices established through automotive mfg history. Yet you still refuse it.

I'm not claiming you have less enthusiasm for the hobby, but I am saying that some things will require specific tools. I don't think a design change, implemented to appeal to those who won't find access to the tools needed, is a warranted reason. As I said already, there is no way the bushing can come out, but that is just the point. I would like to retain my parts if I damaged my subframe; now how do you do that when they're epoxied in?

Don't answer that question b/c there is no use continuing this conversation. I have not true animosity towards you, and I can say the work you did in that thread was good. You are an asset to the Zilvia community so stay that way but realize you know very little about me. If you want to start showing cards, you'll find out quickly I am quite qualified to voice an opinion.

PoorMans180SX · 10-14-2011, 03:34 PM

We're good. No harm no foul. You're basically right.

10-12-2011, 11:04 AM	#1
Stunt'nSlide Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: nor cal Posts: 310 Trader Rating: (-1) Feedback Score: -1 reviews	PBM solid riser and collars My whole subframe bushings feel like there shot. Theres a bunch of noise back there and the whole rear end feels loose. I've looked into PBM for there solid subframe risers and I was wondering if it's recomended to pair them up with the subframe collars? Or would a better route be Poly subframe bushings and PBM collars? Thanks

10-12-2011, 11:10 AM	#2
Zerolift Autolab Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fairfield, OH 45014 Age: 38 Posts: 2,804 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Track Car or Street Car ? __________________ Contact: Phone - 513-874-2508 AIM - ZLR0bert Email - [email protected] Zerolift facebook - http://www.facebook.com/Zerolift

10-12-2011, 11:12 AM	#3
thefro526 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,813 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	PBM Solid risers replace the sub frame bushing entirely. There is no need for collars with the risers. The riser is just a solid bushing that raises the sub frame ~1/2". Collars are designed primarily for cars with worn sub frame bushings that aren't completely shot, they help to stiffen the bushing up a bit without needing to pull the entire sub frame and removing the old bushings. __________________ http://thefro526.wordpress.com/ Deto International

10-12-2011, 11:59 AM	#6
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	I wouldn't recommend the solid bushings from PBM b/c I don't personally approve of epoxying the bushing into place b/c they're trying to appeal to a market of car owners who don't have access to a press. Press fit or its not going in my car. SPLparts.com /thread __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

10-13-2011, 08:03 AM	#8
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	^ what do you not get. PBM undersized their collars slightly so they'll drop in. That state the use of an epoxy to hold them in place. It makes plenty of sense. BTW, SPL's come with rubber isolators. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

10-13-2011, 10:23 AM	#9
blueshark123 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 5,481 Trader Rating: (55) Feedback Score: 55 reviews	I actually tought that pbm was press in fit also they just say to use epoxy to make a tighter bond ?

10-13-2011, 10:31 AM	#10
Stunt'nSlide Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: nor cal Posts: 310 Trader Rating: (-1) Feedback Score: -1 reviews	Thanks for the tips guys. I'm gonna do more research on PBM and SPL and see what one is best. I love PBM parts and I have a bunch of friends running there coilovers and multilink saying it's the best set up they've ever had.

10-13-2011, 10:50 AM	#11
Stunt'nSlide Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: nor cal Posts: 310 Trader Rating: (-1) Feedback Score: -1 reviews	I think I'm going SPL thanks guys. Heard a lot of good reviews and it comes with the rubber pieces for less noise and fully adjustable whether you want your subframe 1/2" 1/4" closer to the frame or you can do OEM spec with the spacers they provide. And I like the idea of a tight fit. People were saying the epoxy for the PBM's is used because they are not very tight and have a bit of play, so the epoxy is used for ease of installation. I will post a review here on zilvia once I slap them on in the next couple of weeks.

10-13-2011, 11:10 AM	#13
Zerolift Autolab Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fairfield, OH 45014 Age: 38 Posts: 2,804 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	We have used Stance and SPL Subframe Bushing sin the past. Easiest method of install is to put the aluminum bushings in the freezer for a little while, and heat up the subframe where the bushing presses into. They will install much easier. __________________ Contact: Phone - 513-874-2508 AIM - ZLR0bert Email - [email protected] Zerolift facebook - http://www.facebook.com/Zerolift

10-13-2011, 01:46 PM	#16
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	There is absolutely nothing wrong with epoxying them into place. You're probably missing a few fries out of your happy meal if you think there is. I've installed both in my own cars, and PSM's are way easier and do exactly the same thing, unless you want to raise the subframe less. Also, there are enough subframe bushing reviews, don't waste the bandwidth. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

10-13-2011, 02:35 PM	#17
s14unimog Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In a place, near a river, over a lake Age: 34 Posts: 2,415 Trader Rating: (22) Rides Gallery: s14unimog Feedback Score: 22 reviews	sure there is. It's unnecessary. They're most definitely not going to fall out but what advantage could this extra process possibly provide you? Still I see no reason why my post doesn't make sense. Ya know, you really get beside yourself when you enter in these discussion. You're the same idiot who argued that bump stops aren't an important feature for a lowered car. __________________ Fuking ginger bread man stole my wallet... SHIFT*lock_slide to side d3m3rs0n: if i have a baby im naming it Brandons Fault Emerson

10-13-2011, 10:52 PM	#20
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	I pointed out the roll center thread not out of arrogance, but to highlight the fact that the people that have posted in it have taught me a lot, and that I now know what I'm talking about. Just because I argue with people does not make me an idiot. I'm either ignorant or right, and I'll freely admit when I'm wrong if proven so. Just because someone doesn't have access to a press, or doesn't want to pay someone else to install parts doesn't make them any less of a car owner, builder, or enthusiast. The epoxy method is just as effective, and 100% proven. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

10-13-2011, 11:19 PM	#21
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 30 Posts: 2,694 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	Neither of them NEED a press. I've used the PSM ones, and I had to actually tap them in with a rubber mallet. Once it's installed into the vehicle, shit is irrelevant anyways! Unless they are way smaller, BUT THEy AREN't. And the SPL ones, I had to do the EXACT same thing. Tap them in with a mallet. It was SLIGHTLY tougher. But still not an issue. Neither of them needed a press, bada boom, bada bing. If you just want solid bushings and to raise your subframe go PSM. If you want to run an s14 subframe with solid bushings, OR want to tilt your subframe, go SPL. End discussion. __________________

10-14-2011, 02:05 AM	#22
Howie Felter Snatch Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: USA/Australia/Japan Posts: 223 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I guess one point I'd like to make is how its sort of a bad idea to raise the subframe 1/2" on a S13 because it will induce more anti-squat in a chassis/subframe that already has plenty of anti-squat from the factory. More anti-squat = better response, but at the cost of loosing traction. I'd highly recommend leaving it at the factory height (subframe). Subframe risers for S13 subframes but a no-no in my book.. Subframe risers are fine for S14/S15 subframes though since those have less anti-squat and more traction designed into them. Just look at the pick-up points of the RLCA on the subframe of a S14/S15.. Notice how they're more flat/level?

10-14-2011, 03:34 PM	#24
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 5,431 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	We're good. No harm no foul. You're basically right. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs. Last edited by PoorMans180SX; 10-15-2011 at 12:58 PM..

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