RWD SR20VE musings - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

jr_ss · 01-10-2013, 09:59 PM

Will a DET pump swap over? That would be your best bet.

I'm not sure how fast the added stress on the clutch fan would wear out the VE pump, if at all. I'm sure there is a limit to what the pump can handle. You would be adding rotating mass out away from the bearings causing a higher side loading.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 01-11-2013, 07:57 AM

I'd give it a shot. I mean, it wouldnt bo so hard to replace it if it does go bad. Figured, as long as the fan is balance and doesnt have a whole lot of harmonics on the pump, it shouldnt affect it too much.

Matej · 01-21-2013, 06:23 PM

Found this thread:
waterpump issues : CA18DE / CA18DET Forum
Granted, they are old CA18 pumps, but I think I will go with electric fans just to be safe.

Also, I obtained an OEM S15 SR20DE exhaust manifold and discovered that it fits onto the VE head directly, without needing to have the holes slotted.
So the OEM S15 turbo manifold will probably fit directly as well.

Matej · 06-13-2013, 06:00 PM

Bump.

The 20V single solenoid bolts onto the P11/SR16VE head, and apparently clears the firewall in an RWD configuration. Not sure if when using the head on a DE(T) block one would still need the oil feed line, but if not, it would eliminate the need for relocating the twin solenoids.
The single solenoid can only switch both cams at the same time, but most people seem to configure their twin solenoids to do the same anyway.
If one obtains the P12/X-Trail motor, they are all set.

P11/16VE solenoids.

20V.

jr_ss · 06-13-2013, 07:20 PM

I still think it would be extremely tight on the S14 chassis based on my observation with my motorset. Good to actually see the mounting plate surface though, seems to be almost identical with the P11's.

I'm convinced there is more space behind the motor in the S13 than there is in the S14

Matej · 06-13-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I still think it would be extremely tight on the S14 chassis based on my observation with my motorset.

Cutting off the end that sticks out should fix that, since it is just an unused bolt hole. Then it would stick out no further than the CAS.

However, the seam on the firewall may need to be cut/bent, judging by the picture of the S13 above. I am not too keen on doing that, so I will try using lower motor mounts. From looking at pictures online it seems that S14's actually have the seam much higher, which must definitely be nice for the VE swap.

jr_ss · 06-13-2013, 07:49 PM

That's just it, the P12 CAS would not work on my car/motorset. It hit the bulkhead and intruded by a good inch towards the center where it bulges out.

jr_ss · 06-13-2013, 08:01 PM

I don't think the S13 or S14 pinch/seam is bigger on either car, just on the S14 the bulkhead bulges out towards the engine bay more than the flat S13 bulkhead.

Matej · 06-13-2013, 08:18 PM

That is interesting indeed. Others seem to be able to get away with the P12 CAS. I wonder why it is not fitting in your car. The only things causing it could be the motor mounts and cross member, though I do not see why they would.

And I think the S14 seam is actually bigger, but it appears to sit higher, at least from what I can tell.

jr_ss · 06-13-2013, 08:41 PM

Perhaps it's my setup, Nismo mounts with Mazworx Z32 crossmember/transmission, but it's not different than an Sr transmission and crossmember distance wise...

rbs14kouki · 06-13-2013, 11:16 PM

If you want more room with the firewall ! My tuner did this set-up on is race car and now does it to every ve swap or almost !

If im not mistaken : U need the stock distributor (for parts...he weld the parts that goes into the cam to the epm) and a aem epm for honda (need a little griding to have the bolt to fit on the ve head) !

Here are pics

rbs14kouki · 06-13-2013, 11:30 PM

I personaly went with the mazworx hallsensor ! If i would of waited abit more i would of chose Taarks hallsensor that way i would of saved machining my head to fit te sensor !

On my engine i also have the mazworx conversion kit but o didnt like the way the line were going behind de shock tower so i did custom lines to hide it

Here are pics of my set-up

jr_ss · 06-22-2013, 04:26 PM

Matej, can you measure the 20V solenoid block from the back of the head to the furthest point out? I'd like to go measure mine and see what the available room is. Not that I plan on swapping them out, I like the idea of switching both cams and different rpm ranges.

Matej · 07-02-2013, 12:57 PM

Would love to, when I obtain one.

More silly discoveries:
There is no need to mod the RWD oil pickup or buy the Mazworx one. Just buy a 370Z/G37 oil pickup. It bolts right on, has the correct diameter, sits in the proper place in the oil pan, and costs 20-30$ new.
The late model 350Z/G35 (with the newer oil pan) uses the same pickup as well, just do not use the early model one because it is bad.

jr_ss · 07-04-2013, 07:25 PM

Do you have pictures of said 370z setup installed?

Yellow4g63 · 07-06-2013, 05:39 AM

Yeah no shit how about some pics.

Matej · 07-06-2013, 09:30 PM

Waiting on my oil pan baffle and strainer gasket to come in. I do not like putting parts on until I have everything necessary.

The VQ37 pickup is basically the same style as the VE, except the slit is oriented for an RWD configuration, and it sits lower.

Matej · 08-09-2013, 05:28 PM

The 370Z/G37 strainer did not work out after all. It is a few millimeters too tall and/or a few degrees off. It could be mended by cutting and welding it, but my goal was to find an OEM pickup that would fit without needing to be modded.
There are a couple of others I will be test-fitting. Nearly every Nissan V6 and V8 uses the same oil pickup tube diamater and flange bolt pattern, so I have been trying to find ones that look as if they could work.

It would be neat if someone mass-produced a 'cup' similar to this that could fit the distributor. Preferably with the end removable from the inside, thus allowing access to the distributor from under the dash. Maybe I will use a cooking pot or something, or just drive with a hole in the firewall.

Also installed a crank scraper.

Yellow4g63 · 08-09-2013, 05:36 PM

well it's still good to know. Thanks for the update.

Matej · 08-16-2013, 11:46 PM

To keep up with the title of the thread, here is a set of VVL 'killer' cams.

This car is powered by a VE with similar cams. It currently holds the Bonneville land speed record in the 2.0L and under production class.

This car is powered by an SR15VET and also holds some sort of a class record at Bonneville. Cool!

jr_ss · 08-17-2013, 08:44 AM

The S13 has a class record at 165.5mph. There is a full article on Motoiq about that car.

Edit- the NX sounds cool and all, but if you plan on driving your car on public roads, I'd consider that a nightmare. No low-end and did you hear how long he had to slip that clutch to get it moving? Now, I understand he probably has a long gear in there for top-end runs, but it doesn't sound like it would be fun at all.

Matej · 08-17-2013, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Edit- the NX sounds cool and all, but if you plan on driving your car on public roads, I'd consider that a nightmare. No low-end and did you hear how long he had to slip that clutch to get it moving? Now, I understand he probably has a long gear in there for top-end runs, but it doesn't sound like it would be fun at all.

The NX was only posted for fun. I have long abandoned the idea if eliminating the VVL on a street car, but Zilvia will not allow me to alter the thread title.

Regarding the 20V solenoid on the P11 head, there is a small issue with the placement of the oil return slot, which is moved over a bit.

P11.

P12.

Here is how someone on the internet solved it.

However, this fellow who seems to know quite a bit about the magical VVL process claims that it is alright to block the oil return off completely. Interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5speed

I'm pretty certain the oil return slot doesn't need to be cut on the 20V solenoid housing/block in order to work with the 20VE head. The oil return is to relieve the oil pressure in the hollow rockershafts.. It just help to go out of vvl quicker. It does not effect how fast vvl goes on. The oil already has a place to escape through the rocker arm oil squirter hole. Check out some new photos.
VVL: how it works

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5speed

Yes, I'm pretty confident the 20V solenoid housing will work without having to cut the slot for the oil return. Again, the oil return slot is for the oil in the hollow rocker shafts to return to the oil pan. It's like a very weak oil pressure relief valve.

When the solenoids are activated, the oil travel through the rocker shafts and pushes the rocker arm pistons to activate the big cams. So what happens to the oil pressure when solenoids are off? It will escape through the rocker arm oil squirter and through the return oil valve in the solenoids. If you use the 20V solenoid housing on the 20VE head, some of the oil can't return to the return oil hole in the head and only through the rocker arm hole where it will eventually make it way back to the oil pan. The only possible long term problem I see with this route is if you don't kick in the big cams enough time. Like once a month or longer, and letting the engine sit for a year without usage. Then the oil in the return chamber in the solenoid housing gets cook and become gummy, since it just sits there.

Here's a picture of the solenoids. You will notice there are three different sections on the solenoids and each section correspond with the three chambers in the solenoid housing. All of the chambers are seal off from each other by the tight tolerance fit between the solenoid body and housing. Chamber #1 act as oil reservoir and holds the oil. Chamber #2(to cams) directs the oil to the rocker shafts and cams once the solenoid is activated and the plunger moves up to let the oil in. When the plunger moves up it will allow the oil to come into chamber #2 but it will also seal off chamber #3(oil return chamber) from the oil. The oil in rocker shafts will only go to chamber #3 if the solenoid is off (plunger move back down) and if the oil pressure is great enough to overcome the ball bearing valve with a very small weak spring(doesn't take much pressure to overcome it) in chamber #3. So in the VVL scheme, IMO, the oil return hole is not that important.

Matej · 08-18-2013, 09:03 PM

Thank you for updating the title, whoever is responsible.

Came across a blog about the old Scorch S14. I did not know it had an NA VE.
ã‚·ãƒ«ãƒ“ã‚¢NAï½œã‚¹ã‚³ãƒ¼ãƒä½ œæ¥*æ—¥è¨˜

TEALSQUEAL · 08-28-2013, 05:06 PM

Bump it up! More ve talk. My stuff from taarks is shipped. I'll get my pics up when I get it all.

jr_ss · 08-28-2013, 05:32 PM

One thing I'm curious about is compression numbers. I have yet to find any solid information as to what a VE head swap and DET bottom end should yield. I'm assuming it should be in the 170-180ish range, but that is a best guess scenario. However, I have seen some claims that people are in the 210-220ish range with the DE bottomend on a VE head swap. Anyone have solid numbers they'd like to share? I know what my sitting for 3yrs motor has cold, but I'd like something to compare it too.

Yellow4g63 · 08-28-2013, 06:58 PM

DE pistons with VE head = 10.1 so the DET should be 9.0 prob. Teal did you get the Taarks Cam sensor kit?

jr_ss · 08-28-2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow4g63

DE pistons with VE head = 10.1 so the DET should be 9.0 prob. Teal did you get the Taarks Cam sensor kit?

I'm not talking about static compression. I'm speaking specially about actual compression.

TEALSQUEAL · 08-28-2013, 07:34 PM

Yellow, yes I got the timing kit, water neck setup, and timing relocation all for $450 usd shipped. I wanted their oil blocks because they look better than Mazworx and they come with fittings, but got tired of trying to sell my Mazworx setup with all the typical lowballers on this site and their eBay dreams.

Yellow4g63 · 08-28-2013, 07:35 PM

My stock VE motor pulled 210, When I built it with SR16VE pistons the numbers were even higher and I had huge Franklin stage 4's in them. I hit around 280psi. I think your guess will be right on the money.

Yellow4g63 · 08-28-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEALSQUEAL

Yellow, yes I got the timing kit, water neck setup, and timing relocation all for $450 usd shipped. I wanted their oil blocks because they look better than Mazworx and they come with fittings, but got tired of trying to sell my Mazworx setup with all the typical lowballers on this site and their eBay dreams.

That's a very good deal!

01-10-2013, 09:59 PM	#31
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Will a DET pump swap over? That would be your best bet. I'm not sure how fast the added stress on the clutch fan would wear out the VE pump, if at all. I'm sure there is a limit to what the pump can handle. You would be adding rotating mass out away from the bearings causing a higher side loading. __________________ My SR20VET

01-11-2013, 07:57 AM	#32
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I'd give it a shot. I mean, it wouldnt bo so hard to replace it if it does go bad. Figured, as long as the fan is balance and doesnt have a whole lot of harmonics on the pump, it shouldnt affect it too much. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

06-13-2013, 07:20 PM	#35
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	I still think it would be extremely tight on the S14 chassis based on my observation with my motorset. Good to actually see the mounting plate surface though, seems to be almost identical with the P11's. I'm convinced there is more space behind the motor in the S13 than there is in the S14 __________________ My SR20VET

06-13-2013, 07:49 PM	#37
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	That's just it, the P12 CAS would not work on my car/motorset. It hit the bulkhead and intruded by a good inch towards the center where it bulges out. __________________ My SR20VET

06-13-2013, 08:01 PM	#38
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	I don't think the S13 or S14 pinch/seam is bigger on either car, just on the S14 the bulkhead bulges out towards the engine bay more than the flat S13 bulkhead. __________________ My SR20VET

01-21-2013, 06:23 PM	#33
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Found this thread: waterpump issues : CA18DE / CA18DET Forum Granted, they are old CA18 pumps, but I think I will go with electric fans just to be safe. Also, I obtained an OEM S15 SR20DE exhaust manifold and discovered that it fits onto the VE head directly, without needing to have the holes slotted. So the OEM S15 turbo manifold will probably fit directly as well.

06-13-2013, 06:00 PM	#34
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Bump. The 20V single solenoid bolts onto the P11/SR16VE head, and apparently clears the firewall in an RWD configuration. Not sure if when using the head on a DE(T) block one would still need the oil feed line, but if not, it would eliminate the need for relocating the twin solenoids. The single solenoid can only switch both cams at the same time, but most people seem to configure their twin solenoids to do the same anyway. If one obtains the P12/X-Trail motor, they are all set. P11/16VE solenoids. 20V.

06-13-2013, 08:18 PM	#39
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	That is interesting indeed. Others seem to be able to get away with the P12 CAS. I wonder why it is not fitting in your car. The only things causing it could be the motor mounts and cross member, though I do not see why they would. And I think the S14 seam is actually bigger, but it appears to sit higher, at least from what I can tell.

06-13-2013, 08:41 PM	#40
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Perhaps it's my setup, Nismo mounts with Mazworx Z32 crossmember/transmission, but it's not different than an Sr transmission and crossmember distance wise... __________________ My SR20VET

06-13-2013, 11:16 PM	#41
rbs14kouki Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Montreal , Canada Age: 35 Posts: 817 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	If you want more room with the firewall ! My tuner did this set-up on is race car and now does it to every ve swap or almost ! If im not mistaken : U need the stock distributor (for parts...he weld the parts that goes into the cam to the epm) and a aem epm for honda (need a little griding to have the bolt to fit on the ve head) ! Here are pics __________________ AV FABRICATION Built thread sr20vet s14 http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=535574 Last edited by rbs14kouki; 06-13-2013 at 11:48 PM..

06-13-2013, 11:30 PM	#42
rbs14kouki Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Montreal , Canada Age: 35 Posts: 817 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I personaly went with the mazworx hallsensor ! If i would of waited abit more i would of chose Taarks hallsensor that way i would of saved machining my head to fit te sensor ! On my engine i also have the mazworx conversion kit but o didnt like the way the line were going behind de shock tower so i did custom lines to hide it Here are pics of my set-up __________________ AV FABRICATION Built thread sr20vet s14 http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=535574

06-22-2013, 04:26 PM	#43
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Matej, can you measure the 20V solenoid block from the back of the head to the furthest point out? I'd like to go measure mine and see what the available room is. Not that I plan on swapping them out, I like the idea of switching both cams and different rpm ranges. __________________ My SR20VET

07-02-2013, 12:57 PM	#44
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Would love to, when I obtain one. More silly discoveries: There is no need to mod the RWD oil pickup or buy the Mazworx one. Just buy a 370Z/G37 oil pickup. It bolts right on, has the correct diameter, sits in the proper place in the oil pan, and costs 20-30$ new. The late model 350Z/G35 (with the newer oil pan) uses the same pickup as well, just do not use the early model one because it is bad.

07-04-2013, 07:25 PM	#45
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	Do you have pictures of said 370z setup installed? __________________ My SR20VET

07-06-2013, 05:39 AM	#46
Yellow4g63 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Socal Posts: 1,451 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Yeah no shit how about some pics. __________________ 95 240sx RB20 415whp 91 Nx2000 VVL yo

07-06-2013, 09:30 PM	#47
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Waiting on my oil pan baffle and strainer gasket to come in. I do not like putting parts on until I have everything necessary. The VQ37 pickup is basically the same style as the VE, except the slit is oriented for an RWD configuration, and it sits lower. Last edited by Matej; 07-06-2013 at 10:25 PM..

08-09-2013, 05:28 PM	#48
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	The 370Z/G37 strainer did not work out after all. It is a few millimeters too tall and/or a few degrees off. It could be mended by cutting and welding it, but my goal was to find an OEM pickup that would fit without needing to be modded. There are a couple of others I will be test-fitting. Nearly every Nissan V6 and V8 uses the same oil pickup tube diamater and flange bolt pattern, so I have been trying to find ones that look as if they could work. It would be neat if someone mass-produced a 'cup' similar to this that could fit the distributor. Preferably with the end removable from the inside, thus allowing access to the distributor from under the dash. Maybe I will use a cooking pot or something, or just drive with a hole in the firewall. Also installed a crank scraper.

08-09-2013, 05:36 PM	#49
Yellow4g63 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Socal Posts: 1,451 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	well it's still good to know. Thanks for the update. __________________ 95 240sx RB20 415whp 91 Nx2000 VVL yo

08-16-2013, 11:46 PM	#50
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	To keep up with the title of the thread, here is a set of VVL 'killer' cams. This car is powered by a VE with similar cams. It currently holds the Bonneville land speed record in the 2.0L and under production class. This car is powered by an SR15VET and also holds some sort of a class record at Bonneville. Cool!

08-17-2013, 08:44 AM	#51
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	The S13 has a class record at 165.5mph. There is a full article on Motoiq about that car. Edit- the NX sounds cool and all, but if you plan on driving your car on public roads, I'd consider that a nightmare. No low-end and did you hear how long he had to slip that clutch to get it moving? Now, I understand he probably has a long gear in there for top-end runs, but it doesn't sound like it would be fun at all. __________________ My SR20VET

08-18-2013, 09:03 PM	#53
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Thank you for updating the title, whoever is responsible. Came across a blog about the old Scorch S14. I did not know it had an NA VE. ã‚·ãƒ«ãƒ“ã‚¢NAï½œã‚¹ã‚³ãƒ¼ãƒä½ œæ¥*æ—¥è¨˜

08-28-2013, 05:06 PM	#54
TEALSQUEAL Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: louisville, ky Posts: 482 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Bump it up! More ve talk. My stuff from taarks is shipped. I'll get my pics up when I get it all.

08-28-2013, 05:32 PM	#55
jr_ss Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pa Posts: 6,056 Trader Rating: (34) Feedback Score: 34 reviews	One thing I'm curious about is compression numbers. I have yet to find any solid information as to what a VE head swap and DET bottom end should yield. I'm assuming it should be in the 170-180ish range, but that is a best guess scenario. However, I have seen some claims that people are in the 210-220ish range with the DE bottomend on a VE head swap. Anyone have solid numbers they'd like to share? I know what my sitting for 3yrs motor has cold, but I'd like something to compare it too. __________________ My SR20VET

08-28-2013, 06:58 PM	#56
Yellow4g63 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Socal Posts: 1,451 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	DE pistons with VE head = 10.1 so the DET should be 9.0 prob. Teal did you get the Taarks Cam sensor kit? __________________ 95 240sx RB20 415whp 91 Nx2000 VVL yo

08-28-2013, 07:34 PM	#58
TEALSQUEAL Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: louisville, ky Posts: 482 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Yellow, yes I got the timing kit, water neck setup, and timing relocation all for $450 usd shipped. I wanted their oil blocks because they look better than Mazworx and they come with fittings, but got tired of trying to sell my Mazworx setup with all the typical lowballers on this site and their eBay dreams.

08-28-2013, 07:35 PM	#59
Yellow4g63 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Socal Posts: 1,451 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	My stock VE motor pulled 210, When I built it with SR16VE pistons the numbers were even higher and I had huge Franklin stage 4's in them. I hit around 280psi. I think your guess will be right on the money. __________________ 95 240sx RB20 415whp 91 Nx2000 VVL yo

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