qwarnon

alright im in the process of swapping in a gen 1 355 small block chevy into my 93 s13

im going to be using a 4 speed and will probably need a taller gear ratio than the stock 4.08.

i want to keep my 4 lug axles if possible i really love my wheels and brakes that i have. im going to have a custom driveshaft anyway so that part is no problem.

basically what are my options? if i buy an aftermarket lsd (obx, tomei, kaaz.. etc) will that change my gearing at all? if i understand correctly im thinking not.

any help is much apprieciated.
thanks,
chris

mrmephistopheles

Your best bet would be to source an S15 Spec-R Ring & Pinion.
3.692:1 drive ratio. Pretty much the only other tall gearset you'll find is 3.55 from a Q45, and that's a bigger pain in the ass to install.

You could also get different gearing in your transmission.

__________________

awesomenick

Yeah, q45 is a bigger pain, and it would be even worse since you want to stay 4 lug. I wouldn't even look into a q45 rear if I were you, although it would work.

g6civcx

It appears that you do not understand how the diff works. The final drive gearing is controlled by the ring and pinion. The power split between the two wheels is controlled by the differential.

The diff and the R&P have nothing to do with each other.

So when you buy an aftermarket LSD, you're just controlling the way the wheels lock up. There is no ratio in the diff because the ratio is in the R&P.


Other than what's been suggested, you may use an R200 from 04-07 Pathfinder 2WD. It comes with 3.133 ring and pinion. The 08 Pathfinder also comes with this ratio but the 08 also comes with a larger R230 so it's easy to confuse them.

Use the entire case. The ring uses 13mm bolts so if you want to use S-chassis differential you will have to drill the holes and bore them out to 13mm because stock S rings are 12mm.

All/most of these Pathfinder R200s comes with VLSD. If that's not satisfactory you can buy an aftermarket 1.5/2 way and use that in lieu of the Pathfinder VLSD.

Axles follow the diff so if you swap in an LSD meant for S-chassis, you can reuse the output flanges and axles from a stock S13/S14 as you currently have on your car.


For propeller shaft I recommend Driveshaft Shop. You'll find that it's not much more than a regular 1-piece S-chassis shaft because every shaft they do is custom. Props to DSS.


Cliff's notes:

* buy LSD for your S13. If you have VLSD now then buy a unit for VLSD. If you have open, buy a unit for open based on what you have.

* drop your entire diff. split the case. Carefully disassemble the left and right output flanges, making sure not to confuse between the two.

* take your LSD and carefully enlarge the ring bolt holes to 13mm.


* go buy 04-07 Pathfinder 2WD R200, or 08 if you're sure it's R200 and not 230.

* split the Pathfinder case. Carefully disassemble like above. DO NOT CONFUSE THE PARTS because there will 2 very similar looking sets. Some are interchangeable. Some are not. Do not just throw everything into a pile.


* bolt the Pathfinder ring to your LSD and prepare the LSD just as you would if you were installing the LSD into the S13 diff, which means you have to set up the axle bearings as necessary. Make sure you don't mix up left and right parts.

* install your ring and lsd into the pathfinder case.

* install your S13 output shaft flanges and bearing caps. I am fairly certain that either caps from Pathfinder or S13 will work, but check to be sure.

* install the S13 rear cover onto the pathfinder diff.

* install the diff into the car. you will need longer bolts.

your stock axles should now bolt in with no mods. Congrats on your Frankenstein diff swap.

Get your driveline alignment dead on and call DSS. They'll show you how to measure the propeller shaft, including what's needed to bolt the shaft to what you have.


Don't ever say Zilvia don't do jack for its members

qwarnon

thank you very much g6 civic you have been very helpful in 2 of my threads now!

also i read up some more on rear ends and differentials in general. i understand it alot more now.

I'm not sure i understood this totally correctly are you saying that if i use the stock pathfinder Vlsd then i cant use my s13 output flanges and axles but if i use an s13 lsd then i can use my stock axles and flanges?

g6civcx

To be honest, I didn't try to use S13 flanges on the Pathfinder VLSD because I wanted to use my S13 2way.

I can confirm that if you switched the 2way and S13 flanges over to the Pathfinder case, it will work.

I do not know if trying to put S13 flanges onto the Pathfinder VLSD will work.

Sorry.

qwarnon

woah i had a question you couldnt answer! lol just playing. thanks for the help anyway though. ill be going with the pathfinder rear.. once i find one that is. should help me out alot.

again many thanks for your help. if there was some form of rep on this forum u'd have some!

jmauld

Can the R230 final drive gears be used in a R200 housing?

I'd like to use one of the final drive ratios from a R230 with a S15 HLSD in my Viscous housing, if the parts will all fit together?

__________________
Jason
'95 240sx SE

projectRDM

Nope. Too big.

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g6civcx

Question. Why would you want to use an R230 ring and pinion in an R200 case?

First, the 230mm ring won't fit an R200 HLSD.

Second, if you're buying a used R230 ring and pinion, most likely they'll make you buy the entire case. So even if you could somehow manage to make the R200 HLSD fit the R230 ring and pinion, why won't you use the R230 housing?


FYI, not all R200 housings are created equal. The S-chassis snout is smaller than the Pathfinder. So you will have to use the Pathfinder R200 housing.

qwarnon

so wait i have to use the entire pathfinder housing? that should be no problem im going to have a custom drive shaft anyway.. and i can still keep my s13 output flanges and axles
if i use a drilled out to fit 13mm bolt s13 lsd correct?

jmauld

Because I want a helical differential and I'd like to keep my diff case for compatibility with some of the standard v8 kits. That's not a requirement though. I'm just trying to figure out the options.

__________________
Jason
'95 240sx SE

g6civcx

Yes, like I described above you have to use the Pathfinder case. The Pathfinder ring and pinion are physically much larger than the S-chassis pinion. So because the S-chassis case was never meant to handle a 3.133 r&p, Nissan designed the snout on the S-chassis really small. The Pathfinder snout is much larger.

The Pathfinder R&P won't physically fit into the S-chassis case due to size.

Get everything lined up and call DSS. You have to get a custom shaft anyway if you're doing a V8 swap and DSS can make the rear fit however you need with very little effort.

Yes, the output flanges fit the LSD, and provided the LSD is redrilled to 13mm to fit the ring, everything fits inside the Pathfinder case and you can reuse your stock axles.

frosti108

so theres no aftermarket company that makes ring and pinion sets for the 240?

__________________
Goodnight

g6civcx

I don't understand.

It appears that you don't seem to understand that an R230 ring and pinion will NOT bolt to an R200 diff. 230 and 200 are the size of the ring gear. The R230 ring gear will be larger than the R200 diff so they are not interchangeable.

So the R230 r&p will only bolt up to an R230 diff. Same for R200 r&p and diff.

This is regardless of the case.

If you tried to put an R230 ring into an R200 case, it won't fit because the R230 ring is too big for the case.


Let's start over.

Pretend that you could mix and match or fabricate your own bearings and races and spacers, there are 4 crucial components IMHO:

1. pinion
2. ring
3. diff (the part that actually distributes power between the two wheels)
4. side flanges

There are a bunch of other parts, but assuming that those can be figured out later, at the very least you have to do the following regardless of what diff you're using:

a) the ring and pinion go together as a unit. You cannot separate them. The teeth simply will not match up. The r&p together determine the final drive ration.

b) the ring size is measured in mm. For example, R200 = 200mm or 7.9". R230 = 230mm or 9.06".

This is the diameter of the ring. Trying to bolt an R230 ring to an R200 diff will not work, and vice versa.

c) the side flanges bolt to the diff. You can mix and match the side flanges with the diff but there is no guarantee that they will fit. So you have to use the diff, side flanges, and axles from the same car.

People say that you can mix and match, but sometimes the axles will be a little off. It's best to use the diff, side flanges, and axles from the same car to make sure you have good driveline alignment.


The S15 HLSD is R200. Ignoring everything else, how can you bolt a 200mm diff to a 230mm ring? And how would a 230mm ring fit inside a 200mm housing?

Think about it for a second.

Question. What does the diff case have to do with these so-called "v8 kits"? Can you post a link?

The only thing that matters is how the propeller shaft meets the diff, and how the diff meets the axles. Everything else is internal, and provided you exercise good judgement, it will work.

What are these "v8 kits" doing that require you to use a certain diff housing?

Like I said multiple times, DSS can help you with mating the propeller shaft to the diff.

I do not recommend buying any other type of custom "kit" propeller shafts because DSS will accomodate whatever gearbox and diff you're running.

g6civcx

Yes and no. Nismo = aftermarket?

Your question is loaded because 240s use an R200 diff. Because of the small snout, not all R200 r&p will bolt into the 240 housing. If you can manage to find a Pathfinder R200 diff housing, the snout will be larger to accomodate any R&P.

Nismo makes several R&P kits designed specifically for 240s, but they are expensive and are really just rebadged r&p from other models that use the R200.

As far as aftermarket R200 r&p, there are many R&P options available for the Pathfinder. Search off-road boards for suggestions.

But keep in mind that not all r200 R&p will fit the 240 housing due to size.

qwarnon

thank you very much sir. im going to start searching for a good pathfinder rear end and just drop the whole thing. (not the axles or driveshaft of course)

then ill get my s13 helical lsd and drill it out and use my s13 stock
i take it all i need to do is what you described up above
basically swap in the s13 lsd and flanges and im good to install?

thanks alot btw g6civicx you are incredibly knowledgable on this subject.

projectRDM

Nissan Motorsports carries several OE gear sets of various ratios, all the way up to 4.63:1 IIRC.

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g6civcx

Everything from the ring going forward, including the case, was a Pathfinder. Everything from the 2-way LSD going back, including the output flanges and rear cover was S13.

I'll show you a pix later on.

*blushes*

What car is the motor from, and how much does the engine cost?

qwarnon

it was originally a 1969 327 hiperformance block. one of the 325hp ones. i threw in a 350 crank and had to have it bored .030 over to make 355ci. im not sure on the total cost.. im probably looking at around 1500-2000 when im done.

yeah ill ask ya for some pix later on. or you can just send em to [email protected] whenever u'd like.

g6civcx

For all that work, you're better off just buying a ZZ350 crate motor, or even just the 350 HO.

Do you think your combo will put out more than my Gen0 long block? If not, just buy my setup for 2k new from jegs.

qwarnon

in the end your probably right. for 2k we'll both be sitting in about the same spot power wise. it would have saved me alot of work just going with a crate motor.. but i really wanted to build my own to be honest. its a learning process for me. im almost all the way done with it now anyway so there no point in me buying a crate engine now.

but thanks for the advice