slowvia

Your'e making a religious mans argument because you have no more proof that God does not exist than anyone else has that He does exist. So you are not stating any FACTS at all.
And no, that is no truth, it is merely your own opinion.
I may not believe in a God, but I will defend the right of others to do so if they wish.

And might I just point out one little overlooked thing- religion does not cause war; Man causes war when he decides that his religion is right and his neighbor's is wrong.

jvsc91talon

Dude, corbic, you really need to read a book man. Where did you go to school? Home school??? You know there is a famous quote by Steven Weinberg "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." You are most definitely wrong sir. People who are atheist dont suicide bomb because they are atheist. People who are atheist dont hack away at children's genitals. People who are atheist dont fly planes into buildings because they are atheist...etc These things would NOT be happening if they didnt think they were doing "god's will." You say that not all religions have an afterlife myth and your right, but i dont care about them. My fear is about the people who do have an afterlife fairytale and cant wait for the end times, these people are also the ones who have the power to start a nuclear war. My fear is about terrorist islamic fascists getting one of these nuclear bombs and thinks he is doing "allah's will." As well should be your fear. Let me ask you a question, is not believing in leprechauns a religion to you? How about not believing in santa claus? Just so your up to date, here is the definition of religion: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." Atheism has no set of beliefs. Im sorry but you are misinformed. And did i read you right? You imply that the Crusades was a GOOD thing??? You have a misguided view of history.

jvsc91talon

slowvia- I never once said that god doesnt exist. What i am saying is that there is not 1 good enough reason to believe that he does exist, not 1. And thankfully so, the god of the bible is a wicked, evil, racist, homophobic, unjust, vindictive, sadomasochistic, misogynistic, genocidal, infanticidal, filicidal, petty, malevolent asshole.

" religion does not cause war; Man causes war when he decides that his religion is right and his neighbor's is wrong." THEY ARE FIGHTING OVER THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!! how is religion not the culprit??? Man didnt decide, his book told told him everyone else is wrong.

And i too agree that everyone has a right to believe whatever they want, no matter how crazy it is. I too would also defend anyone to have the right to their own beliefs. But those beliefs should NEVER be forced on someone else, as we have here in america with our money, our pledge of allegiance and so on... Christians say we are just negative and angry when we dont want these things but i wonder what they would say if we changed our money to say "In Allah We Trust?"

GripTerror

kingkilburn

Consider your life changed. I'm all atheist. Not a doubt in my mind. I do not however attack people for believing what they want.
EDIT : I will challenge your beliefs by bringing attention to things that don't jive.
You have NO right to attack anyone. Ever. Your shitty arguments and behavior are what characterizes atheists as arrogant know it alls.

You're doing a terrible job of shutting the fuck up. You are doing a great job of shitting up Zilvia though. Keep up the exemplary work.

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jvsc91talon

Yea man, i agree with that guy about how people worship this jesus guy. Christians claim that its not good enough that you just believe in god, you have to believe the jesus myth also. That doesnt quite make sense to me.

kingkilburn

Corbic please define religion for us.

Here, I'll help you out.
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is a total rejection of the very idea of supernatural deities.



I repeat atheism is NOT a religion.

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kingkilburn

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jvsc91talon

Kingkilburn- i see, so they have a right to jam their beliefs down everyone throat everyday but i dont have a right to call them on it??? Did you not just read what i wrote? I would defend all peoples rights to believe whatever they want, just dont force it on other people. Shitty arguments??? See you might still think that discussing or mocking someones "faith" is taboo but i dont, that is something that i think needs to be changed. If i talk about a presidential candidate in the same manner, other people would also state their opinion and we can discuss our differences. But as soon as someone brings up peoples faith in god, we have gone too far. That should not be. I have been around religious people all my life and i see the damaging effect it has on a persons mind to be brainwashed into believing that thinking for yourself is a bad thing. If i am hurting someones feelings cause i talk about their beliefs in god...SO WHAT!!! i do not care if i offend. Nor should you.

kingkilburn

They don't have the right either. So rather than being right you act the same as them and ruin it for the rest of us. Defeat their ideas with logic not trash talk.

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jvsc91talon

Even if i was being this "bad" person as you say i am, these are MY opinions and should no way implicate you or anyone else. Nor have i attacked anyone personally, i am mocking the IDEA about a god, i am insulting god. If i come off as arrogant, than so be it. I am me, and you are you. Just cause we agree on 1 thing, doesnt mean we agree on all things. And yes i DO have a right to state my opinion even if someone gets offended. The people i attack are the ones who commit these atrocities in the name of their religion. I also proudly attack those who poison childrens minds and deny them proper education, who tell children they will spend in eternity in hell, who try to impose their beliefs and morality on others, who tell aids victims that they are in the shape they are in because they are sinners, who try to poison my children's minds, people who are hypocritical about tolerance of their beliefs and not of anyone else, who compromise medical science research, people who give similar weight to superstition as they do to science, people who hack away at their childrens genitals especially in little girls, i can go on and on and on... Those are the type of things YOU SHOULD be offended by and the type of people who DESERVE to be attacked and mocked.

kingkilburn

Whether it's right or wrong when people see one person of a certain ideology they assume all others are the same. All conservatives are religious neocons, all liberals protest in trees, and atheists are arrogant know it alls that bash religion.

You might not claim to be the representative of atheism but remember that you will be many peoples first and lasting impression of all atheists.

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jvsc91talon

See but that doesnt bother me... Are you saying that you disagree with any of the statements i have made? Show me 1 that shouldnt have been made. You just claim i have shitty arguments but failed to point out why. But besides that, us nonbelievers need to stick together and remember that they are the enemy and not each other.

RedTopKA-T

^^^ amen!!

kingkilburn

I'll put it this way.
Would you rather show people the error of their ways and invite them to think free of dogma or attack them for believing what they do, likely driving them further into dogma?

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RedTopKA-T

I say its your life live it how ever you want to and forget what everyone else says or thinks!

People spend too much time worried about someone else's problems or beliefs, just worry about you and yours that's it!

slowvia

This is how religious war begins. So no, religion itself does not advocate war. War is created by men who decide that other people are wrong, and their differences are unreconcilable, so they must fight. Much like people are fighting with their words in here.



Looks like your opposed to everyone, including yourself.

Phlip

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
[Note: slowvia, I agree with you]

The very suggestion that religious people are wrong for exciting their like-minded bases to chant down those who do not believe what they do only to turn and THEN say that NON believers should stick together and chant down those who believe instead of simply exercising one's right to sentience (and, with it, indifference) and leaving the conversation reeks of megalomania and hypocrisy.
Kinda like bogging down a thread like this one with "THERE IS NO GOD!!!" conversation, instead of simply passing it over because the topic is of no concern to you.

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jvsc91talon

hahaha ok guy, sticking together because there arent that many of us and its true that many of the people who feel like us are afraid to "come out" is not in any way condoning or exciting war, and especially not religious war....lol And yes, people who think and believe as i have stated ARE the enemy, they are the enemy of reason, free thought, human progression, and inevitably of humanity itself. If you cant see how the conflict in the middle east that is solely about religion will sooner or later involve us than you have your head up your ass. Would you like sharia law passed in this country??? Me either, and that is something I WOULD fight for. Allah doesnt rule over me and neither does the christian god(i know they are the same) or any god for that matter.

Corbic

Did you get that from Encyelpdia: OutYerAss?

Atheism fits that bill. Its embracement of science as the answer to all of life's questions and needs and rejection of anything that appears "supernatural" or unexplainable.

Corbic

Grand School Science teaches the foundation of the Scientific Theory. The example they always use is - if you go in to the park, and you see no birds, can you scientifically determine there are no birds in the park?

The answer is No.

So it is Scientifically more correct to say "There maybe a God, I just can't prove it" than it is to say "There is no God unless you can prove it".

Corbic

If so, you have failed to present a single valid argument to that fact. You start off with a personal attack and begin dribbling your same BS rhetoric.

Oh, really? War would cease to exist without religion? Did the Virginia Tech shooter kill all those people in a suicide mission in the name of God, what about the two kids at Columbine? The 15,000 people murdered by Drug Cartels in Mexico - is that the work of fanatic Catholics as well?

Genital Mutilation? Besides a few fucked up tribes in third world countries - where does this happen? Ever think that female circumcision has more to do with cultural and social controls than "religion". You really need to read up on the history of women's rights and historical oppression. Here is a hint - "that better be my fucking kid I'm raising".

Or are you talking about Male Circumcision, which has just as much, if not more to do with hygiene. (Much like not eating pork, shell-fish, or carrion; which if not cooked properly can cause all sorts of illnesses). Head on over to a forth grade Sex-Ed class or the Department of Health to learn more about the benefits of male circumcision. I'm sure you are just mad mommy and daddy decided to give you a purple mushroom instead of a elephant truck like the cool kids in the locker room.

And once again, only a few religions practice this. Why are you blaming Buddhists in China for what Protestants in Vermont maybe doing? You being an ignorant cry baby.

Really? Ever heard of North Korea or China? Both are officially Atheists. You don't have to be an Atheist to be suicidal, unstable or willing to die for your beliefs. As i previously laid out for you, on a 5th grade level, there are more factors to events like 9/11 than religion. You just refuse to recognize that because that single event for you, as well as your parents trimming your fun-stick is your justification to hate religion.

Once again - I'd love to see the source of that Definition. Last time I checked, neither Buddhism and Shintoism involve anything in the form of God or Gods or superhuman beings controlling or creating destiny.

The Crusades where a good thing - For Europe. Maybe you should open a book once in a while, or even just watch a documentary. Just like Alexander bumping off the Persans was a fantastic thing for Western Civilization - sucked to be the Persans however.

You say I'm wrong, but offer no counter evidence of it. You refuse to consider Geo-Political events, human nature and sociology as primary driving factors in the "Evils of Religion". You also refuse to take into account dangers of Social Darwinism.


Lastly, you openly admit that you are ignorant to the history of religion and the thousands of various religions that exist in the world.


To you, Religion = Catholicism, which only accounts for 16% of the world.

xSoCalxRiderx125

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BarrigaS14

Science doesn't reject something that looks or appears supernatural. It rejects data that can not be replicated by other scientists. But, for the most part it tries to answer the natural world and what is in it. Is there stuff it can't do? Of course, it has not reached that point.

Remember, not to long ago, we had no idea why volcanoes erupted or that that there are tectonic plates underneath our feet.

Anyways, many do believe that even though many reasons were brought for the why a country/civilization went to war, one main contributing factor has been religion. If one says they are Muslim and believe that killing another in a world that is considered godless will bring them every lasting peace, then they are using religion to kill another.

Same goes with a Christian killing an abortion doctor. It is their belief that drove them to it. People have used religion as a reason to kill others of different religions because they don't get along with them, in such simple wording.

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Corbic

What if i want to kill you because you are a Communist? Is that ok? Once again, Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same god. The issue is how they perceive the world should work, society should run and the proper order of things.

Muslims feel women should practice modesty and are against drinking alcohol. Christians feel girls can run around in mini-skirts while letting frat boys do body shots off them at the bar.

Do you think these two minds sets would vanish in the absents of the belief in god and the human spirt?

Most ancient pagan religions did not believe in some fucking paradise of an afterlife. The reward was this life. Guess what, the barbarism and sheer callousness towards fellow man back then pales in comparison to today's civilized world.

Would an Atheist support slavery?


So Atheist feel abortion is correct? Do Atheist support termination of the mentally ill, handicap or infertile? They serve no purpose after all.

kingkilburn

I almost don't feel like responding at this point. :/

Hitchens Razor isn't a meme. It is logic. If you assert there is a god with no proof beyond your faith I need not have any evidence to disprove a god's existence.

Walking into a park and not seeing any birds has proven that there are no birds in your sight not that there are no birds to be found.


I'm sorry but to claim that violence isn't committed in the name of religion is just stupid. How many Jews in the last 100 years have been killed by Christians and Muslims? How many people were killed in the name of God during the dark ages? How many people have died in the last 70 years in the name of Ala? How many deaths in Ireland can you attribute to the fighting between Catholics and Protestants? How many "others" have stupid fucking backwards assed Americans and Canadians killed because their narrow view of Christianity didn't jive with the person standing in front of them? How many millions have died in the fighting between the hindu and muslim in and around India? How many peoples were subjugated and trampled into the ground under Catholic supervision?
I'm not at all saying that violence would go away without religion but fucking own up to the reality of the world.

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kingkilburn

And stop trying to claim moral bullshit connections with atheism. I don't need some book to tell me how to be a decent man and I damn sure don't need the threat of eternal fire or the reward of paradise to do it.

So we are clear, the bible condones both slavery and abortion.

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BarrigaS14

Nations go to war outside of Religion as well. I never stated that Religion was the only reason, but it is a large factor in many battles/wars throughout history. Yes, the big three pray to a god which is similar, but the people who saw or interpreted are the key differences. Moses, Muhammad and Jesus (and then all the followers). Each one believes they are in the correct because of the interpretations that are given. Some will die for those interpretations and to them they are correct. We may look at them and say, wow they are wrong, but they believed and read the same thing you could read and saw it differently. That is why some nations can go to war basing it on what they believe.

Because of this different thought process, a Muslim would kill themself and "non-believers" with their mind set that they are doing the right thing. Are they any less Muslim than someone who doesn't do it? No. It is their belief system, not anyone else's.

No, I think that no matter what you believe in, there will always be two different mindsets. Look at the theory of how the universe was created, there are several different thought processes on it. People banter on about which one is right. But the issue right now is that we don't have the technology to figure it all out. I really believe we will, unless we wind up killing the entire planet. But it takes time, but people want answers now, which religion is an easy fill in the gap.

The thing about science though, is once it is repeated countless times and more evidence is shown, then it becomes Theory (Evolution) and in some cases Law (gravity). But, there has yet to be a civilization that has based it's entire foundation on technology. Even if there was one, there would still be armed conflict, we are just too stupid to really get past that...if that is the point you were making.

I would tend to disagree. I think most ancient "pagen" (however you are using that word) had an afterlife of some sort. Almost all religions at one point or another had the ability to move up or on or into another realm.

I am not sure. I would like to say no, but again, that is something I could not say as a culture. I would be against it since being human is being human. And treating someone as a human should be the same regardless of where or how someone looks.

But we know that religion will condone slavery if given the option.


As an Atheist, I feel abortion is non of my business. It is a choice between a woman, doctor and whoever she wants to know of what is going on. It has no effect on my life and should not be made public policy nor outcry. It's the same as drinking a beer. It doesn't effect anyone, unless I go out driving drunk and kill someone.

Not sure why you would ask this? If someone is born mentally ill, handicapped or infertile that is unfortunate. But they are alive and as such, are given every chance to be what they can be.

I think you are trying to get at that without religion there would be no morals, no code of conduct. Which in turn I find incorrect. Humans have gotten along with each other for thousands of years. The Code of Hammurabi supports the idea that one can make laws governing humans without people going around killing others who are different.

To me, religion is just another way of separating each other and in the case of the US, making stupid laws that do nothing but support ones beliefs when it should not be as such.

If you have a religious belief, good, keep it to yourself or family. Don't enforce it on the general populous.

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prowess

religion is a mental disease.


it's the 21st century, time to let go of the bronze age myths and see the whole picture.

Corbic

I'd argue that Atheism is a mental disease. It goes against human nature.