zero.counter

Right now, I'm driving a Buick Century wagon. Obviously it's not a sports car, but it's still got some funky behaviour that is just bullshit. I was driving around a corner once and the thing downshifted nearly making me lose control... that's not cool. Of all the auto's I've driven, they never seem to be in the right gear. Either they're too high or they're downshifting at an inoportune time as mentioned previously.

All of this, is irrelevant as it is one personal experience with an already decrepid domestic vehicle. I am not concerned with pretentious dictum, just the facts. You have a bad control (for experimentation purposes) and need to have a relatively good test subject to even make a valid claim on.

Auto's are shit for anything but daily driving and drag racing.
I respect your opinion, unfortunately you had a bad experience, with a domestic vehicle to say the least, and again as stated above is helpful to a small extent. Who actually drag races/drifts a buick wagon with the extra amount of weight and such unforseen amenities anyways???

No supra freak with an overblown ego is going to change my mind about that.
Who me...naw... I have experience and never intended to change anyones mind, especially a moderator's. I am just a product of our nation's higher education system as many are here as well and am nearing the ripe age of 30 with lots to bring to the table.

Chernobyl

Ever notice how its only people that drive auto that say auto isn't bad? Honestly, who cares? You aren't going to change anyone's mind. Also, people who say your car isn't cool just because of a tranny aren't looking at the big picture. Of course, your car has to flaunt that auto tranny with style to win over most people.

zero.counter

Ever notice how its only people that drive auto that say auto isn't bad? Honestly, who cares?
It's funny you should say that,3 out of 4 of my vehicles are standard. But I have too witnessed that behavior.

You aren't going to change anyone's mind.
Don't be a hero and ignore my previous post about never intending to do that in the first place. I stated more factual evidence is needed to prove that the bliss that is ignorance that, "AUTOS SUCK, AND STANDARDS RULE FOR DRAG/DRIFT".

Also, people who say your car isn't cool just because of a tranny aren't looking at the big picture. Of course, your car has to flaunt that auto tranny with style to win over most people.
I concur...

Chernobyl

Zero, that statement wasn't pointed at you. I'm replying to the thread as a whole.

ryan hagen

in general most auto's cant hold the same power as a manaul, my friends 240 with auto slips alot, it costs more to service the auto, which is why he is going stick, the auto is also heavier. there are performnace options for auto but most either hurt driavability alot, or cost as much as a several stick trans. the auto has more parts inside that make it more prone to failure and although it takes several hours or less to change a cluch when it goes but clutch bands, valve bodies and other little auto tranney gadgets arent fun to play with......

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

zero.counter

I apologize dude.

Chernobyl

no worries man

SilviaSR20DET

I used to own an automatic Kouki s14 base and really like the looks but the performance just sucked. I soon got a Zenki S14 manual and the differences is night and day. Its soo much faster than the auto and you have alot more control during drifts then autos. Personally its pretty much pointless to buy a 240 auto, i know some ppl who bought an auto s14 thinking that they will do the auto->manual swap with the sr20det but now realise how much extra money and work it would be. But if your going towards daily driver then auto is great, but if your aiming towards performance the manual has a much better advantage in my opinion.

Advan

Which makes it more difficult for me to choose. Because I'm aiming towards both daily and performance. Excluding the drifting part, that won't be my purpose since we have no place to do it legally, and I see no point in dragging and proving that my 240 can go into the low 9's. I'll wait till I get about $3000 to decide. Although, I wouldn't mind getting into Circuit racing. Isn't Autocross track or circuit racing?

ryan hagen

your stock auto tranney will never get u intot he 9's it will die long before that, the auto leaches more power than a manaul, so if you want more power get manaul, you will have less drivetrain loss

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

transient

I disagree. Though this car isn't meant for hard driving, it still demonstrates one major downfall of an automatic transmission. The controlling device, be it electronic or mechanical, is just not as capable as even a moderate driver when selecting shift points. This is what I meant to illustrate.

I never meant to infer that a vehicle such as this would be used in any of those circumstances. My goal was to illustrate the lack of control a driver has when dealing with an automatic transmission.

Please don't try to pull rank on me by noting your degree. Whether or not you've attended school or lived for nearly 30 years, you still haven't brought anything to the table as of yet. If you can give me evidence showing that automatics have advantages over manuals anywhere but drag racing and daily driving, then I'll listen to you. Telling me how much more supra drivers know about auto's, however, isn't going to do a thing.

I don't mean to sound like a 5-speed zealot or elitist, I just hate it when I hear someone speak of a mass of knowledge and then show nothing for it.

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Advan

I was using that as an example.

eDit: Someone mentioned Leve10, and it hit me that they create performance tranny's for automatics. I don't know how reliable they are, and that doesn't mean that I will be getting a performance tranny. But are they actually reliable?

nokeone

that was me..and YES..very..

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Anubis

Automatic is nice cuz I can eat a fatty sandwhich while im cruising down the road.

revat619

Hell yeah!!!

Seriouslly though, for performance, auto isnt that great but at the same time its not like an auto is totally incapable. I hate how people walk up and say oh nice car and then they see the automatic and are like "ah what a waste..." People who say things like that are ignorant. They have NO facts to base their comments on. I have witnesses who have seen me get my car pretty sideways (and control it) so whatever. I will be doing a 5 speed swap though. Not because of what other people say, but because i want more control on the track; because its easier to initiate a drift.

If you want the most control/performance on the track (minus drag) i would go with a manual. For daily driving auto is fine.

EDIT: Hey Andrew, is that an oem lip on your front bumper that i see in your sig?!?!

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Anubis

nah i photoshopped it on. hahaha, i'm dumb like that.

revat619

hahaha, o ok. Still looks cool!

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ryan hagen

"I hate how people walk up and say oh nice car and then they see the automatic and are like "ah what a waste..." People who say things like that are ignorant. They have NO facts to base their comments on.".....revat619


or they have driven one for 4 years and hate it, then got a stick on their 3rd car which happened to be a 240sx, and i m about go before show, and go usally helps to ahve a manual...... but thats just my opinion


you can get computer controled tansmissions, which are alot better than vacum controled, but it hard even if you ahve you electronically controled tranney to re set shift points while u drive, i have seen for some "muscle car" trans missions to ahve presets you can select but the cost for this is just too much when a manaul would be infintately adjustable by u thinking when to shift.

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1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

nocomedown

You just gave the facts right there. You want more control, so you go manual. You wouldn't be doing that if manual was inferior. Honestly, how many Manual to Auto swap threads do you see on this forum? Each kind of tranny serves its own purpose, and it just so happens that a standard transmission is compatable with a sports car.

SXual240

Finally!! Someone that understands.. as i said before it's your opinion.. you give it.. that's fine.. but don't go dissing my AT just because i can't 'drift' as well as you can.. which is BS basically.. i can do just about anything as good as you can.. granted it will prolly take more money but can you really put a price on being orginal? To me you can't.. again.. just a difference of opinion.. i like to drag my 240.. i like to drift also.. but here it's more efficient and fun to me just to drag so i'm VERY happy with my choice.. and as far as speed.. let's just put it this way.. Luda will give you one finger while he's shiftin' gears.. i'll give you two while i'm lookin' behind me..

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revat619

I never said manual was inferior. My point was people making dumbass comments without any sort of backing. Like when people say you CAN'T drift with an automatic. YES you can. I've done it.

Yes, i think the manual is better for performance driving, but you wont see me bashing on people's automatics either.

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old_s13

Some of you people are just completely clueless -- stupid fucks.

Most automatic transmissions suck because they cannot be shifted. Newer automatic transmissions like the one found on the 240SX can be shifted without any negative effects or excessive wear/damage done to the transmission. I have taken numerious people out in my car up in the canyons and have turned them ghost-white because I was kicking some serious ass. I have made manual transmission owners confused as to how I could either keepup with their more powerful and much more expensive cars. AND, I have beaten plenty of cars with equal power but manual transmissions. There's really no need to diss and call anything crap -- its all about how GOOD (or bad) a driver YOU are.

The one biggest flaw with STOCK automatic transmissions is the engagement point for the transmission. From a stand-still, the car's torque converter will need to be upgraded if you want to focus on quick launches (drag racing). Upgraded torque converter will give you all the benefit of consistent and kickass launches and is what you NEED if you ever want to rip people from the launch. Plus if your car is turbo, you have constant boost as the turbo will stay spooled.

Then you have assholes who comment as if they have nothing better to do. Why bother? All it took was 1-2 days for me to rip the fucking auto out of my car and install the 5-speed, big deal. I actually had the clutch pedal sitting there install for a good 6 months before I decided to tackle the entire project.. whoop-dee-doo! Now I was 5-speed, the car was a bit lighter, and of course.. I had more control with my gear changes and more gears to chose from.

After having both, I prefer stick but that is not to say today's automatics have not improved. A good shiftable 5-speed automatic is all you need if you want a balance between comfort and performance.

HOWEVER, in the canyons a GOOD stick driver will really tear it up AND will also be able to use the clutch to initiate slides -- overall, you have even MORE control over your gear selection and RPMs with manual transmissions. I've also found that 5-speeds are better for highway racing where you need to have several gears to select from. On the highway, you can use the transmission to keep the car under control and also slow the car down. With the auto, even though I had Z32 brakes they were hardly sufficient in slowing the car down as efficiently as a manual transmission. This is the benefit in having 5 or 6 gears -- they come in handy.

- Mike

ps: Absolutely NO need to heel/toe with an automatic unless you are an idiot -- its USELESS. Heel/toe is functional with manuals, left-foot-braking is useful with auto's but very rarely.

Advan

Wow, never expected to read a post like that. I like the whole thing. I never knew a torque converter would make it to where you can have a fast take off. Though after thinking about it, it's self explanatory. What would be a good efficient torque converter? The only problem that I've learned about a stick is the cable the connects to the shifter. When/if it pops, then you have spend money ($500 for my moms Saturn) to get another one on. Has anyone else had a problem with the cable breaking? I know it may not be clear but it was all I could remember in the morning.
If you do canyon drifting(forgot the name) or racing, then I'd loved to ride shotgun with you. That sounds like fun.

TokyoNights

240sx doesnt have a cable..so you dont have to worry about that

Flybert

Back this statement up. I know you know this already but the point of heel and toeing is to downshift into the proper gear smoothely and quickly for the turn. Sure you can just down shift into second quickly with an auto but it's really jerky. Do you like jerky auto downshifts? The question is why wouldn't you want to heel and toe?

initial s14

if you all think that autos suck on drifting and manual is better... you are DAMN WRONG !! the FEINT technique applies on automatic cars to drift... especially on wet surfaces that all you need is to swing your vehicle like a pendulum..its all about right timing on weight transitions.

SimpleS14

I'm going to do the 5-spd swap on my main S14..because I want to have more control with my car (shifting and what not). As for my other S14...I will keep it automatic, because it comes in handy when you want to play with the chickey riding with me.

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nocomedown

Correct me if I'm wrong (I admit I'm no expert on the subject), but wouldn't it be much easier to just use left foot braking instead of heel-toe in an automatic? Isn't the whole reason for doing heel-toe because your left foot is occupied by the clutch? Like I said, I'm not sure about that because, to be quite honest, I have no experience with it, but from the books I've read it seems that would be the case.

zero.counter

Please don't try to pull rank on me by noting your degree. Whether or not you've attended school or lived for nearly 30 years, you still haven't brought anything to the table as of yet.
Really, what do you want to know. Here, email me at [email protected] and give me a detailed list of things you want so I can "back up" my comments. I will also need to be compensated for my "assigned tasks" as it will require use of my time to show some guy on the internet that he is wrong before he damages my reputation by calling B.S. (obvious sarcasm)
If you can do so, I can accomodate, otherwise shooo away.

If you can give me evidence showing that automatics have advantages over manuals anywhere but drag racing and daily driving, then I'll listen to you. Telling me how much more supra drivers know about auto's, however, isn't going to do a thing.
When did I say a damn thing about daily driving. I never brought that up, but actually since you did...It is always a bitch shifting in congestion keeping you in 1st and 2nd gear at most.

I don't mean to sound like a 5-speed zealot or elitist, I just hate it when I hear someone speak of a mass of knowledge and then show nothing for it.
I never said I had mass knowledge or was a "self-proclaimed" anything. I study emergency medicine which is irrelevant here, but common sense is a must and is a bit lacking in some areas of this board. Again, pay me for my time and I will provide you with the research needed to backup, otherwise quit bugging me with yor antics. Just as research projects require basic funding to exist and bring forth knowledge for scientific data purposes, I can apply that basic ideology here as well. Time=Money, at least in my life.

Old_S13 guy,
Dude, you seriously need to get laid more often or if you are an ugly vato, use your hands. Take a chill pill and stop being a hardass on a board which most likely shows your weakness and that you are infact the opposite in real life. Yes, I said real life, not just going to drift events or playing with custom L.E.D.s on cars to look pretty and such, but again...go get a girl and make a family. Do something with your life instead of pushing yourself off as an internet bully of sorts. You don't intimidate me, in fact, my psych rotation in school gives me insights into determining the type of person you really are. Psycho-analyzation is fun, especially when certain cases are obvious, as is yours....Mike.

zero.counter

BTW, if you notice, I don't post here for help...ever. I don't know everything, before that lame argument comes out, I just work on cars and don't see any need to flaunt anything I know like others here. I post in defense of others, when the "big dogs" of boards come arounds throwing their weight, acting like they are gods gifts to cars. Some people (besides myself) need to learn humility and humbleness.