sideways1997

-So i have a question this might sound stupid but what is the difference between s13 and s14 coilovers?
-Are they are the same shock(in size and stuff)? Are the shock tower holes spaced different(were the pillow mount studs enter)? and if they are the same, could you just buy different pillow mounts?

Thanks for you help I've come here for a lot of suspension stuff a big help but i was just wondering about this for the longest time.
-And i guess what is the difference between s14, s15, and skyline suspensions.

This seems like a lot to tackle but it would be a big help thanks a lot

wookieballa

s14 rears are way taller than s13.. s13 fronts have a different sized bolt hole on the lower perch. i think the s14 rears have a wider bolt pattern up top also

GSXRJJordan

Right, the arms are all the same (except the S14 front LCA is longer).

The S14 and S13 upper perches are the same.

The S14 and S13 front lower mounts are the same.

The S14 rears are much longer, and the lower mount is bigger.

Edit: for a clearer listing, see next post.

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AceInHole

Just clarifying:

S14 and S13 FRONT upper perches are the same.

S14 and S13 FRONT lower perches differ.
- S14 = M14 bolts
- S13 = M12 bolts

S14 and S13 REAR upper perches differ (S14 is wider)

S14 rears are 4 - 5" longer (depending on measuring extended or compressed). IIRC the S14 has a 19 - 20mm eyelet (forget exactly). Not sure about the S13.





As for arms:

S13 front tension and lower control arms are shorter than S14 (unsure as to the length difference).

I never measured the back of the S13.

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GSXRJJordan

^ I stand corrected, by Ace/PJ, one of the major Zilvia suspension gurus

BTW, I'm still using those heims you told me about on cheap arms on my new S14, and everything seems to be working well (not binding). +a couple thousand to you for that tip

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kaking

old post but answered alot of questions. doin suspension tweeks in a couple of days

Z33dori

man this is an awesome thread...

def needs to stay alive... lots of questions answered. and extremely insightful

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thetopcow

I could swear I read a long time ago that people were using S14 front spindles and lower control arms on S13's because the lower control arm is longer thus creating more steering angle. Is this correct and if so is there any adverse affect to doing this? thanks

GSXRJJordan

Yeah, you're forced to run a shit load of camber. Think about it: the top is the same, the bottom moves to the outside... that's your camber right there!

Some of it can be adjusted out with camber plates, but you'll never get close to a good "grip" alignment, IMO.

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iceman1357

to bring up this old but good thread again. if the space between the two strut mounting points on the front of chassis is the same between the s13 and s14. then the difference in camber would be in the strut itself right? the lower mounting point (bracket) on the s14 strut would stick farther out then the s13 right? pushing the wheel and spindle out. is this true? or is the spindle different? if so the only diff between the struts is the bolt hole size right?

so you would be in the right camber and have a wider wheel base!

redline racer510

alright i have had people tell me many different things but i just need to know what suspension parts need to be modified in order to have proper alignment when lowering my car

sliksta1

redline- usually ruca's, toe arms and adjustable pillow ball mounts are the first things to start off with when lowering your car and getting it aligned when stock adjustment is maxed.


question on s13/s14 toe arms. ive read that a 10mm spacer is needed on each side of the joint in order to fit the toe arm on the s14 correctly. can anyone clarify that this is correct. what type of spacer is best for this as well if so?

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Gordo714

awsome information thanks it helped alot

punxva

no problem man, i figured zilvia needed a definitive thread about suspension

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shankldu

how much can i lower a 96 240 or should i run 17inch to avoid any probs

cc4usmc

This isn't the place to be asking questions like that. Look at the link below, but PLEASE refrain from asking that question again.

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/129865-whee...re-thread.html

After going through there, you'll know the answer to your question.

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shankldu

how much can i lower the car running 17 inch 18 inch wheels

cc4usmc

u no speak a english?

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SLERONE

this was good
how come no sticky?

MrChow

uh?? It is? ^^^

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punxva

yeah lol it was stickied like 3 days after i posted it...

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libroer

This is actually a question that I hope someone can answer, or tell me where to go to find the answer.

I bought a '96 s14 from this guy, and the tension rod bushings were messed up. My new ones should be coming in any day now. Basically I want to know if anyone thinks I might have fucked up the chassis by driving with it like that. It makes an initial knocking sound when i press the breaks, and since the suspension is stiff, and the rods aren't firm, it's not letting the suspension do its job. I know that it has put extra strain on the chassis, I just want to know how much it actually takes to fuck up the chassis.

Also of note: The hood, as far as I can remember, sat straight at first. It is now definitely closer to to the right side than the left. Is that usually just a hood thing, or is that an indicator of chassis bending?

punxva

i dont think you would bend your chassis because of your tension rods. it might just be your hood.

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miklos

I bought some adjustable front tension rods and also rear toe links. The locking nut keeps coming loose. Is this common?

GSXRJJordan

No definitely not common. If you're tightening it as much as you possibly can, and it's still coming loose, my guess is you've got movement in the heim. You can always try including a locking nut (I provide them with the heims I sell, people can decide whether or not to run them).

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miklos

Do you mean the locknuts with the blue on the inside of them? Do you think Loctite would work?

4x4le

I know all too well that lowering your car effects many geometries of your suspension. Im having trouble pinpointing my latest problem and have been hesitant to take it back to the rack because no one in town is able to give me a rear caster reading.

Anyways I had the car alined, their printer did not work at the time so its difficult for me to remember the settings exactly. I know I had massive 3.7* of camber in the rear and slight toe in. I wanted that set to 0 but the alinment guy insisted....

Anyways that was a fine setup and I was happy with how it felt but the tires were wearing too quickly and un even drifting so I got the fenders pulled so I could take camber out of them. I still ended up with way too much fender gap so i "just had to" go lower in the rear in order to make it look right. Now when cornering hard I hear the rears squeal. I also noticed under hard power in strait lines the rear feels unstable and like it is wanting to walk on me. I dont know the camber settings Im using now but it is much less than the 3.7 and I would guess somewhere around 2 or slightly more.
I would almost describe the walking like a form of bump steer but its not just present during bumps, although it is very present with bumps.
The think that finially got to me was when it was raining the other day I got trapped out in the rain (I rarely ever drive the car in the rain) and I could not go over 40 mph without it feeling like it was about to spin out! This is rediculas and Im wondering what effects on toe I could have changed lowering it that .75-1" or if adjusting the camber arms could have effected something else.

I know Im probably going to end up having to get it on the rack but If I have something to look for at first I may be able to adjust the componets evenly myself and not have to go to the rack. I know everything is even, the alinment was all done evenly, and my adjustment after the alinment were done by my very carefully to be even.

The caster arms (traction arms) were made to be stock leingth when I installed them and have not been adjusted at all due to the alinment shop not being able to get a rear caster reading.

Im not mega slammed although its pretty low. It is about as low as people normally go with the exception of the people that really put them on the ground for no reason. Also tire wear is no biggy for me since I get tires for free and they are always good high performance tires. I would also like to note that the car still feels great drifting, just horrible on the streets and impossible to drive in the rain. Nothing is loose either.

I hope I was descriptive enough for someone to be able to help, but not winded enough for no one to listen. Thanks

GSXRJJordan

Yes, loctite would work - but why not just use lock washers?

This post hurt to read, because I know you're smart

There is no "caster" setting in the rear, it's not adjustable. The adjustment that I think you're talking about is via the traction arm, but instead of giving you "dynamic camber" (meaning your camber curve changes with suspension travel), the traction arm changes your toe curve. Most people leave this arm stock, there's not any adjustment that needs to be done there.

There is no dynamic camber in the rear - the camber you set on the rack is the camber it has all the way through the travel range - what changes is toe, but not enough to make the car feel the way you're describing.

Yes, 3*+ of camber in the rear is going to be detrimental to your driving performance in every way possible - accelerating, turning, and braking, in that order. I'm glad you pulled your fenders to 'eyeball' a lower camber adjustment, but by changing ride height and camber, you changed your toe. That toe change (and possibly an uneven camber one side to the other) is what you feel most likely in the back.

As far as the "feels great drifting", this is probably because your front is setup well. You'll notice a big difference in speed when the rear is set up correctly also - instead of spinning on entry, you hook, and don't spin until you initiate.

Oh, and the geometry that's still not addressed is roll center, which your sway bars try to compensate for, but when you're as low as you're describing (low enough so your LCAs are parallel to the ground or even point upwards on the outsides), roll center becomes a larger problem.

Hopefully this helps

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4x4le

Well thanks for thinking im smart, but Ill never claim to be all knowing. I had a for real question and I got what I needed thanks to you.

I am actually pretty good at "reading" tires and I was almost positive that I seen a toe out condition. My main thing was understanding the rear suspension and now I believe I do thanks to you. I didnt want to just elongate the toe arms and be done with it, I wanted to know why I had to. I was thinking that it was due to me lowering it, however I learned that it was from taking camber out. I also wanted to make sure that the adjustment needed to be made wasnt on the traction rods.

Anyways I toed the rears in some and the problem went away. We will see if it needs more when it rains next Ill go drive in the rain and find out. I do feel that I have some rear bump steer so I might play with the traction rods some. I read that they can help with it.

Im not too consirned with actually getting the car back on a rack unless I make a major change to something suspension wise because now that I understand what effects what I should be able to perform my alinments close enough based off tire heat/wear and feel. I care less about numbers, its all about how it feels in my book.

Thanks again, and ill try not to act like a noob in front of you anymore

EDIT: and here are the most recent pics of its ride height, although not the best its all I have of its current setup.

julz

does anyone know if there is any differance between the s13 and s14 rear traction and toe arms? and s13 and s14 rear knuckles?