Def

I'm not talking about cage structure or design except when Brian asked me about a "cage" that follows the C-pillar. I never said mine does, but I mentioned my rollbar has down tubes that go back to the rear strut tower area.

There is way too much to critique on the Cusco cages because they look like they were designed to keep the interior and have to fight around that for space. But like was said, they're probably better than nothing in a crash.

Def

The more you can keep the structure of the car from folding in, the more strength it provides in the event of a roll over. This is as basic a statement as the sky is blue...

RaceBred 17

Getting a cage from amerikajin in a week.

zaquanh

for one i already have the rules but i wanted to see like i said in the first post , if liek cusco and safety 21 and s&w that cater to other types of events if any of them will pass d1 tech because i dont see one

but everyone is stuck on hating on cusco , and yet all those that hated on cusco have ben proved wrong not only in my thread but in the thread actually about them

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Def

You misunderstand why I posted in here in the first place. Just an observation that the roll over on the S14 was lucky that it didn't keep going over due to the material deformation. That's not a critique on the cage or anything else.

I do not come into every thread to educate people on here that have the engineering background of a high school drop out. I'd rather spend time hitting my head with a hammer, as it's probably less painful in the long run. I'm not trying to school anybody, so don't expect a lesson.

You just got pissy and started attacking me demanding pictures as "proof" of the "attack" you mistakenly think I'm making on Cusco-type cages. There is no attack, I couldn't really care less.

Are they the best cages in the world, no, definitely not. Are they better than nothing? Yes.



Just to show you how far off you really are, the bigger issue in my mind is that a wreck on the street has the strong possibility of having your head have a meeting with the top of the cage. Hence why I have a roll bar, as my car is occasionally driven on the street without a helmet.

Brian

Oh, so the issue at hand is street driven cars with cages?

No matter what cage you have, you might just smash your head on it.

How did that become the issue?


Who is flipping 14s on the street?
Who is flipping them with a custom cage, cusco, cage, roll bar, jungle gym?

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Def

^ This is pretty much the best response in this thread.

Def

There is no issue.

Go back and look at my post, I just said lucky it didn't keep rolling over. As in, it looks like the roll bar has already yielded(would a "custom" one yield as well? maybe), so if it kept going it'd be some people smashing time.

If you're happy with your cage, why are you getting so defensive in trying to defend it from statements that aren't even attacking it?

Brian

That's a main hoop with down bars in the back.

Where is the bad design?

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Brian

Looks like you are right.

You mentioned that the back corner of the roof started to crumple.

You're right.

I just don't understand the point of you mentioning it.

Thread is about a roll cage.


However, then you start talking about clearance between YOUR cage and how tight the hoop is to the roof and how that would not be possible with an "off the shelf cage".

So, you did start making it about cages.... then started attacking the "design" of the down tubes and angles and whatnot.

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irax

AHHHH nope not as basic as you think you fucking moron, crumple zone! if crumple zone's were not beneficial in crashes manufactures would makes cars rigid like tanks. Allowing crumpling around rigid structure reduces the forces applied. Take for instance, your arm. It takes 4lbs of shock pressure to brake the bone. But because you have muscle mass, fat, and 2 layers of skin it takes roughly ~22lbs or more. Again what do you expect to happen? You increase rigidity of something on the car to protect a specific thing that means something else is going to give. That cage in the s14 protected the driver and he was in the drivers seat. If there was a front passenger he would of survived too. With that cage you can't really fit anybody in the rear so it is ok that it is crimpled to save the lives of the people in the front. But like i said before the cages only increase the survivability on crashes and roll overs, who knows, your knock off steering wheel hub might break and stab you in the chest. But to say that the car needs to be more rigid in a crash is just bad science. If a car is more rigid it will transfer all the kinetic energy to the most flimsy:IE YOU. If a car is more rigid you will hurt more from the crash and most likely snap your neck or cause major brain damage.



fucking idiot, I'm not even a structural engineer and that idea is what is basic to me.

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Def

You're right, you're not an engineer, or even have any common sense.

"Crumple zones" serve to slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact. That's fine as long as you've got space to give. Unfortunately, the last thing you want to crumple is the roof right over your head. There is very little space to give, and any head impacts are usually VERY bad, so you want the cage structure up there to be as strong as possible.

I'd gladly take a little more G loading in a rollover compared to having my head and neck get crushed by the weight of the car coming down.

Go read up on the safety aims of cages, they are different than your average passenger car safety test.


I swear, fucking stupid kids. I wish there was a filter on this forum where you could only see posts made by people with an IQ at least one standard deviation above the mean.

Brian

I don't think anybody is wanting a roof to crumple on anybody.


So, now what is your point?

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Def

That's pretty obvious...

That's bigger issue in my mind than if your cage has clevises or where the load paths are IMO, as an occasionally street driven car with a bar right by your head is likely to have you seriously injured based on a head impact with the cage without a helmet vs. the cage not holding up in a rollover.

You keep asking me what my issue with bolt-in cages is, that's really it since they're commonly used in street cars, and it's not brand dependent if you'll notice...

Brian

I think it's time for me to jump out of the the thread.


fact remains - If you are a shit talker on Cusco/safety21 cages, you are simply a stupid idiot. Pictures, firsthand stories, etc. are not enough to change your mind.

A custom cage PROBABLY will be better off safety wise, but then again, you have to trust in the guy building it.

The only argument these guys can make is a "well, this COULD happen" "that MIGHT happen".

No facts, just ideas. wah wah wah.

Def also will not post a photo of his superior cage.

End of story.






the topic at hand. If you haven't already, please call D1 and ask them.
On the forums you will just end up with the never ending cage debate.

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Def

Then what does a crumple zone have to do with a rollover?

Can you not read or something? I'm responding to people quoting my threads and making my points quite apparent.

Def

They're not ideal, but if they pass tech, then somebody in charge feels that they're adequate and that's fine with me.

Just like the average custom bling-bling roll cage for a clubracing car isn't going to pass tech for an unlimited class desert Trophy Truck, and it probably shouldn't have to as you're not going to hit boulders and crap with a track car.


That said, I don't think that makes someone an idiot for pointing out that there are better ways to build a cage. But I understand building a cage isn't for everybody as it's truly a PITA to do it yourself. It took me and a friend about 16-20 hrs of work to make just a roll bar for my car trying to get everything to fit tight and have the tubes fit well enough in common nodes to TIG everything. I have ideas on how to make it better, but it's enough of a PITA that I quickly let those go.

Everybody's got to make their own personal decisions on what safety equipment you use, and if it passes tech then that's all that really matters.

SoSideways

BH didn't say anything about crumple zones.

irax did.

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Leetheslacker

im going to build a cage out of foam pool noodles. that way i can never hurt myself if i hit my head on it.

i think it'll pass tech.

Def

I know, but the "what's your point statement" was aimed at me as far as I can tell.

I wasn't even trying to start shit in the first place. Maybe it's my moderately good grammar and diction, bumbling idiots on this forum seem to have a huge problem with that.

irax

LOL! then your ass would be filtered out jack ass! your brakes are used to decelerate. crumple zone reduces force, big difference. if you want to stroke your E-penis because you think sacrificing structure of a car where THE DRIVER THAT IS FUCKING RACING IS NOT is bad or horrible then go suck a fat one. In racing the only person that matters should be the only person in the car THE FUCKING DRIVER. All you are arguing about is semantics, it doesn't matter that the rear c pillar crumpled AROUND the fucking cage since it protected the fucking driver. So you know it all huh? then why bother posting on a forum? clearly you are too smart for us and need to stop wasting your time and go help solve real world problems. Sure these D1 cages are not as strict as Trophy Trucks, but then again these cars are not flying through the air at 150+mph off dunes or ramps. The the rear half of the cusco D1 cage meets the requirements of SCCA. If the front didn't have an extra bend in it, it would completely meet the requirements of SCCA where they do higher speeds and higher g loads because they are grip racing.


When you have a cage the whole car will become the crumple zone since the strongest structure is now the cage. I would see your point of talking down about cusco if they have ever failed. But you know what? they have yet to fail. Though I would not buy one of their cages I would much rather have one custom made at Part Shop Max

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zaquanh

yea i will probly do that or just take the specs from the rul book to a shop and just have them do it , this whole cusco shit is dumb ,




might work , i think i want to do the same now atleast i wont get a headache if i crash and hit my head


hey who are you , not to shit talk or nthn but if ur cage is really that bad ass id like to see it ,

are you goin to mineral wells?

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ZenkiCam

bah, im about to sell my weld in cage, mind you its not in the car yet haha. if i every go with another cage it will probably just be an autopower or something.

EDacIouSX

look at the passenger b pillar you tard.

orly?

ZenkiCam

Rebel!!!!!

EDacIouSX

sorry but you both are wrongs, crumple zones do not reduce force, and they DO NOT slowly decelerate the car. reduce force, ok i can understand that but wtf? slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact?

epic fail.





Crumple zones serve one Purpose, and that purpose is to spread for force AROUND the car. So, when a car is hit in the front right, the force of that imapct is suppose to spread the impact Around the cabin.

Maybe i should explain more....

the cabin is suppose to be the strongest part of the car. if the car was super hard then the force would have a bigger effect on the passengers, basically when a car gets in a crash the passengers would get tossed around and the car would just come to a complete stop. does this make sense? i hope so.... watched a video all about crumple zones and crashes... top gear season 2.

irax

well reducing force applied to the passengers is what i implied or was thinking

but yes you are right

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Def

Cusco cages do not meet any SCCA/NASA requirements according to the information I got about them. The wall thickness is too thin, and they require all joints to be 360 degree welded. Cusco cages are bolted together with clevises.

I can't even decipher what your fetal alcohol syndrome rambling is getting at on the first "paragraph" of run-on sentences, so I won't address that.


Please go drink some Drain-O or something...

Def

Of course the passenger compartment is supposed to stay together, but the real aim of crumple zones is to give the car longer to slow down vs. a super strong bumper causing a huge deceleration.

At least Google before you post something up that makes you sound like a fool...

Crumple zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And from the article:

Def

Fuck, I've said it three times in this thread, I don't have a cage! I have a roll bar with 4 points and would like to add some gussets to the b-pillar if I ever get around to it.

It's not completely badass, it just fits the car pretty well.


I've been out to Mineral Wells, but I don't go to drift events if you're asking if I'm going out for the drift thing.