Altima Coupe = Possible 240 successor! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 07:27 AM

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/23/w...-altima-coupe/

This, get's me kind of excited.

Ok, I'll stop fronting. I'm giddy like a school boy! A RWD, 2.5 liter Altima! YES!

Discuss...

Vince Burlapp of Hollywood Extra fame has come across a series of grainy photos that supposedly reveal the existence of a Nissan Altima coupe. The styling is entirely too reminiscent of the Infiniti G35, with thick C-pillars, tightly drawn headlamps and a beltline that's a dead ringer for the upmarket two-door.

It doesn't take a keen eye to see that the pics are being taken during a photo shoot of some kind, so we'd assume it's being prepped for a debut in the near future (L.A. maybe?). However, you know what happens when people assume, right?

An Altima coupe would make a great competitor with the Toyota Solara and Honda Accord. Even better -- make it rear-wheel drive and it'll be the spiritual successor to the 240SX.

Judging by the unfinished look of the Altima, it's safe to say that we're more than a little skeptical. As always, time will tell.

**mrmephistopheles** · 10-23-2006, 07:55 AM

Looks like a Z with a different grille and orange headlamp thingies.

SimpleS14 · 10-23-2006, 07:56 AM

I can't see it being RWD....but damn it looks alot like the current G35 Coupe. This is not a bad thing, as that style is very nice and the new G35 Coupe coming out next year will be even better.

Cashizslick · 10-23-2006, 08:04 AM

That thing must be very heavy . . . . .

PITCH · 10-23-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

I can't see it being RWD.....

I wish it were but dont think it will be. If it is what motor will they use? Another Frontier? Or a detund version of the VQ?

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

I can't see it being RWD....but damn it looks alot like the current G35 Coupe. This is not a bad thing, as that style is very nice and the new G35 Coupe coming out next year will be even better.

I think it can be. Think about the Urge concept from last years NAIAS. It was based off a shortened 350z. So onviously Nissan has been thinking about a smaller RWD car. But then again, if it is just a Altima coupe and it's to compete with the Accord and Solara, then it probably will be a FWD. That will be weak.

Kn1ves · 10-23-2006, 08:33 AM

Who else would abandon their current 240 if this turned out to be a RWD, 240 successor?

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kn1ves

Who else would abandon their current 240 if this turned out to be a RWD, 240 successor?

Abandon? Not sure I'd do that. But for a comfy DD, and fun AutoX car, this would fit the bill.

Kn1ves · 10-23-2006, 08:43 AM

o well

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=50930

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 08:47 AM

Oh well what?

aznpoopy · 10-23-2006, 09:05 AM

+1 oh well what?

what bothers me is
he didn't seem to realize it was rwd
are we positive this new coupe is rwd, not fwd (which would make 50x more sense for anything with an altima name on it...)

260hp, FR, g35 looks and low $20ks would be cutting into the 350z market.

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 09:21 AM

I agree that fact that their calling it an Altima makes the chances of it being RWD slim.

The link he posted from the Mustang forum didn't seem to mention that it would be FWD or RWD...

*MELLO*SOS* · 10-23-2006, 09:31 AM

Wishful thinking. Nothing in the Autoblog article gives any reason for assuming it'd be rwd either. Just because the body looks like g35 styling isn't enough evidence that the car (historically a fwd) will suddenly become rwd. I agree with aznpoopy, any rwd attempt would cut into 350z market.

I think this ends up just being the new fwd Altima. It looks decent, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it magically becoming RWD

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello88

Wishful thinking. Nothing in the Autoblog article gives any reason for assuming it'd be rwd either. Just because the body looks like g35 styling isn't enough evidence that the car (historically a fwd) will suddenly become rwd. I agree with aznpoopy, any rwd attempt would cut into 350z market.

I think this ends up just being the new fwd Altima. It looks decent, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it magically becoming RWD

My only arguement for that would be the Urge concept I mentioned before. It shows at the very least that Nissan has a small RWD coupe in the back of it's mind. I think they could sell a lower powered RWD coupe in the 2800lb range with say 240hp, at about $22,000 and not tap into the Z market too much.

*Yuri* · 10-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Hmm, if it's rwd, which I feel there's a strong case for, it means I'll actually be able to decide between this and a Mazda Kabura for FR fun.

qt_240 · 10-23-2006, 12:20 PM

if its FR.. im def. in the market for it..

*MELLO*SOS* · 10-23-2006, 01:14 PM

There is definitely a market for a small 2wd FR platform... But perhaps not as much as the 4dr rwd market (fueled by govt/fleet purchases).

I think the economics of econobox+fr it make it unrealistic. I think the cost advantages of going with transverse/FF are too great for most mfg's to even consider doing an econo-FR. I think they have the opinion that to do a FR "right" it needs to be a $30k to $40k car (350, rx8, s2000, etc).

On another note, I like the styling of the altima concept! It'll be interesting to see what it turns out to be.

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 01:21 PM

^
Why Nissan doesn't build one and whore it and the Z out to drivers in Formula D is beyond me. If they made a $25k RWD car and hyped it up through drifting, they'd sell a shit ton of'em.

Kn1ves · 10-23-2006, 02:29 PM

if this was RWD it wouldnt canibalize 350z sales. 350z only has 2 seats, this has 4. the next logical step up would be the g35, and thats most likely going to be 10k+ up in price if not more.

having an altima coupe makes it so that more people come in to the dealership. IMO its great for nissan to develop this car. then maybe well start seeing Sentra Spec V in coupe form and someday another S chassis vehicle or at least a successor

*Yuri* · 10-23-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

^
Why Nissan doesn't build one and whore it and the Z out to drivers in Formula D is beyond me. If they made a $25k RWD car and hyped it up through drifting, they'd sell a shit ton of'em.

Because GTO's started flying off the lots when GM did this?

OptionZero · 10-23-2006, 02:42 PM

Unless Nissan bumps the 350Z up to the 35k range (killing the base model variants) and prices this in the low, low 20's, I can't see a second RWD coupe in the lineup.

A FWD coupe to battle the Solara and Accord coupe is too logical; Nissan isn't radical enough to break form. Mazda, however, is sufficiently "different" that it could go around creating wierd cars that don't slot properly, like the Miata, the RX-8, and hopefully soon the Kabura. I'd take the Kabura anyways because it'd likely be lighter (think Miata - convertible deadweight + stiffer chassis)

*exitspeed* · 10-23-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri

Because GTO's started flying off the lots when GM did this?

Hey, that thing was doomed waaaaaaaaay before they started using it in Formula D. Not that the Solstice needs any help right now, but I'm sure it'll help sales having Millan driving it if it does well.

gun · 10-23-2006, 03:39 PM

I highly doubt it would be RWD. when people caught pic of the Scion Tc, much like the grainy one in the link, most people assumed it would be rwd since its body style looked so much like a z, until it came out in reality and was a dinky little fwd toy.

Drift Motion · 10-23-2006, 05:02 PM

if nissan made a under 15k nice RWD car that would be nice, maybe even under 20k

OptionZero · 10-23-2006, 06:40 PM

there's no fucking way we're gonna get a $15k RWD car

fwd is too economical for a major car company to pass up on that shit, and only a small part of the market actually demands RWD as a prerequisite for a car purchase

most of the people that care about that will either go used or higher priced new

Nissan's biggest gap is a Sentra SE-R replacement to battle the likes of the Scion Tc, Civic Si, sporty Focus variant, or Mazdaspeed 3. It will not spend extra money to make its competitor in that segment RWD.

There is currently no market for a RWD sports car in the 20k and below range, unless you want to count a v6 mustang as a RWD sports car (which it's not).

Just because some people here care about drifting does not mean *enough* people care about it to make it motivation for Nissan to produce our magical 240sx replacement. In fact, the common person doesn't even know drifting requires RWD; i've met more "Civic drifters" than I thought could exist.

If you must have RWD, your choices are:
- save up/get a second job to afford a Corvette, M3, 350Z
- man up and get a used car and put in the work
- win the lotto, import a TVR
- marry rich, buy a Ferrari

otherwise, it's an EVO or STi for you

sean350z · 10-23-2006, 06:59 PM

i wish nissan would just release the foria ... seems to be a relatively cheaper FR car but sadly only a concept

*Agamemnon* · 10-23-2006, 08:14 PM

Please excuse my ignorance, but how did the the Silvia and 300zx co-exist without cutting into each other's sales in Japan? The two both sold well and were priced about the same as what people would propose nowadays in relation to each other.

I hope that makes sense.

WILDACEX187 · 10-23-2006, 08:43 PM

no more rwd. i dont see it happening for a long time. get your fixes with used 350's cuz that altima wont be rwd. sorry i just dont see it

OptionZero · 10-23-2006, 08:50 PM

How do you know they sold well? I thought the 300ZX was not popular in Japan because the S-chassis performed nearly as well out of the box, and the Skyline GT-R had far more potential. Someone will have to post sales figures on that one.

In any case, here's what kills it:

1. We all agree that this mythical "RWD, VQ-powered, 260ish-HP Altima Coupe" must come in way below 30k, probably below 25k, maybe even more given the existance of a 27k base model 350Z that has 287hp.

2. The lowest, stripped out V6-equipped Altima sedan comes in at 23k. A coupe will sell in lower volumes than the sedan version, and is unlikely to come in at or below that price tag, meaning it'll be $24-25k. Were this car to be RWD, Nissan would have a $25k, RWD coupe (Altima) and a $27k, RWD coupe (350Z). I concede that the Altima would be a 2+2 and the 350Z is a 2 seater, but find me another car manufacturer that has successfully sold two nearly identical cars in this manner?

3. Again, Toyota has the Solara coupe and Honda has the Accord coupe. They are FWD. These are, essentially, 2-dr sedans, and in this market, people do not care about RWD or FWD (they'd probably be turned off by RWD). What Camry or Accord buyer is looking for RWD? Maybe their kids, but the kids ain't signing the checks. Nissan has no motivation for making their competitor in this segment RWD.

4. The name. Altima. Altima's always been FWD. If Nissan wasn't even clever enough to make the GT-R an Infiniti, instead choosing to stick to "tradition" (read: mistake), they aren't gonna change the Altima. This is a weaker point, but still relevant. If this lower priced FM-platform car were to be RWD, it would have "sx" or "z" in it, or something close to that.

5. Nissan's lineup hole is, again the Sentra SE-R, which should come in right around $21k. Their "sports car" lineup would be a bit tight if they had a $20-$22 Sentra SE-R, a $25k RWD Altima coupe, and a $27k 350Z. Make the Altima coupe FWD, and it's no longer in the "sporty" part of the lineup, instead slotting into the Solara, Accord Coupe, G6 fighter category.

I actually like the Fiora, as it would make a nice "neo-510". Give it RX-8 style suicide doors, a 3.0L VQ with 225HP or a pumped up QR, and you'd have a new segment: 20k, 4dr, 4-seat, RWD sports sedan. Problem? Nissan isn't Mazda or Subaru. They're not that innovative.

SimpleS14 · 10-23-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kn1ves

Who else would abandon their current 240 if this turned out to be a RWD, 240 successor?

Why do that when you can get a used 350Z for less?

exitspeed - Nissan will make a RWD car under the 350Z....but for now it will be JDM only (think about the Foria concept).

OptionZero - Good points.

10-23-2006, 07:27 AM	#1
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Altima Coupe = Possible 240 successor! http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/23/w...-altima-coupe/ This, get's me kind of excited. Ok, I'll stop fronting. I'm giddy like a school boy! A RWD, 2.5 liter Altima! YES! Discuss... Vince Burlapp of Hollywood Extra fame has come across a series of grainy photos that supposedly reveal the existence of a Nissan Altima coupe. The styling is entirely too reminiscent of the Infiniti G35, with thick C-pillars, tightly drawn headlamps and a beltline that's a dead ringer for the upmarket two-door. It doesn't take a keen eye to see that the pics are being taken during a photo shoot of some kind, so we'd assume it's being prepped for a debut in the near future (L.A. maybe?). However, you know what happens when people assume, right? An Altima coupe would make a great competitor with the Toyota Solara and Honda Accord. Even better -- make it rear-wheel drive and it'll be the spiritual successor to the 240SX. Judging by the unfinished look of the Altima, it's safe to say that we're more than a little skeptical. As always, time will tell. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-23-2006, 07:56 AM	#3
SimpleS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philly Age: 38 Posts: 9,185 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: SimpleS14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I can't see it being RWD....but damn it looks alot like the current G35 Coupe. This is not a bad thing, as that style is very nice and the new G35 Coupe coming out next year will be even better. __________________ *Goals are dreams with a deadline.* L.H.O.O.Q.

10-23-2006, 08:33 AM	#7
Kn1ves Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ɐɔ 'sǝlǝƃuɐ sol Posts: 1,281 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Kn1ves Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Who else would abandon their current 240 if this turned out to be a RWD, 240 successor? __________________ there's something here

10-23-2006, 08:43 AM	#9
Kn1ves Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ɐɔ 'sǝlǝƃuɐ sol Posts: 1,281 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Kn1ves Feedback Score: 0 reviews	o well http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=50930 __________________ there's something here

10-23-2006, 08:47 AM	#10
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Oh well what? __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-23-2006, 08:04 AM	#4
Cashizslick Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 328 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	That thing must be very heavy . . . . .

10-23-2006, 09:05 AM	#11
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 40 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	+1 oh well what? what bothers me is he didn't seem to realize it was rwd are we positive this new coupe is rwd, not fwd (which would make 50x more sense for anything with an altima name on it...) 260hp, FR, g35 looks and low $20ks would be cutting into the 350z market.

10-23-2006, 09:21 AM	#12
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I agree that fact that their calling it an Altima makes the chances of it being RWD slim. The link he posted from the Mustang forum didn't seem to mention that it would be FWD or RWD... __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-23-2006, 09:31 AM	#13
MELLOSOS* LAID OUT Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LAS VEGAS Age: 39 Posts: 2,015 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MELLO*SOS Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Wishful thinking. Nothing in the Autoblog article gives any reason for assuming it'd be rwd either. Just because the body looks like g35 styling isn't enough evidence that the car (historically a fwd) will suddenly become rwd. I agree with aznpoopy, any rwd attempt would cut into 350z market. I think this ends up just being the new fwd Altima. It looks decent, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it magically becoming RWD

10-23-2006, 12:20 PM	#16
qt_240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CHI Posts: 2,122 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	if its FR.. im def. in the market for it..

10-23-2006, 01:14 PM	#17
MELLOSOS* LAID OUT Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LAS VEGAS Age: 39 Posts: 2,015 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MELLO*SOS Feedback Score: 1 reviews	There is definitely a market for a small 2wd FR platform... But perhaps not as much as the 4dr rwd market (fueled by govt/fleet purchases). I think the economics of econobox+fr it make it unrealistic. I think the cost advantages of going with transverse/FF are too great for most mfg's to even consider doing an econo-FR. I think they have the opinion that to do a FR "right" it needs to be a $30k to $40k car (350, rx8, s2000, etc). On another note, I like the styling of the altima concept! It'll be interesting to see what it turns out to be.

10-23-2006, 01:21 PM	#18
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 20,898 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	^ Why Nissan doesn't build one and whore it and the Z out to drivers in Formula D is beyond me. If they made a $25k RWD car and hyped it up through drifting, they'd sell a shit ton of'em. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

10-23-2006, 02:29 PM	#19
Kn1ves Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ɐɔ 'sǝlǝƃuɐ sol Posts: 1,281 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Kn1ves Feedback Score: 0 reviews	if this was RWD it wouldnt canibalize 350z sales. 350z only has 2 seats, this has 4. the next logical step up would be the g35, and thats most likely going to be 10k+ up in price if not more. having an altima coupe makes it so that more people come in to the dealership. IMO its great for nissan to develop this car. then maybe well start seeing Sentra Spec V in coupe form and someday another S chassis vehicle or at least a successor __________________ there's something here

10-23-2006, 02:42 PM	#21
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Unless Nissan bumps the 350Z up to the 35k range (killing the base model variants) and prices this in the low, low 20's, I can't see a second RWD coupe in the lineup. A FWD coupe to battle the Solara and Accord coupe is too logical; Nissan isn't radical enough to break form. Mazda, however, is sufficiently "different" that it could go around creating wierd cars that don't slot properly, like the Miata, the RX-8, and hopefully soon the Kabura. I'd take the Kabura anyways because it'd likely be lighter (think Miata - convertible deadweight + stiffer chassis)

10-23-2006, 03:39 PM	#23
gun Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I highly doubt it would be RWD. when people caught pic of the Scion Tc, much like the grainy one in the link, most people assumed it would be rwd since its body style looked so much like a z, until it came out in reality and was a dinky little fwd toy. __________________

10-23-2006, 05:02 PM	#24
Drift Motion Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CA Posts: 275 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	if nissan made a under 15k nice RWD car that would be nice, maybe even under 20k __________________

10-23-2006, 06:40 PM	#25
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	there's no fucking way we're gonna get a $15k RWD car fwd is too economical for a major car company to pass up on that shit, and only a small part of the market actually demands RWD as a prerequisite for a car purchase most of the people that care about that will either go used or higher priced new Nissan's biggest gap is a Sentra SE-R replacement to battle the likes of the Scion Tc, Civic Si, sporty Focus variant, or Mazdaspeed 3. It will not spend extra money to make its competitor in that segment RWD. There is currently no market for a RWD sports car in the 20k and below range, unless you want to count a v6 mustang as a RWD sports car (which it's not). Just because some people here care about drifting does not mean enough people care about it to make it motivation for Nissan to produce our magical 240sx replacement. In fact, the common person doesn't even know drifting requires RWD; i've met more "Civic drifters" than I thought could exist. If you must have RWD, your choices are: - save up/get a second job to afford a Corvette, M3, 350Z - man up and get a used car and put in the work - win the lotto, import a TVR - marry rich, buy a Ferrari otherwise, it's an EVO or STi for you

10-23-2006, 06:59 PM	#26
sean350z Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 890 Trader Rating: (5) Rides Gallery: sean350z Feedback Score: 5 reviews	i wish nissan would just release the foria ... seems to be a relatively cheaper FR car but sadly only a concept __________________

10-23-2006, 08:14 PM	#27
Agamemnon Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lake Stevens, WA Age: 38 Posts: 2,585 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Please excuse my ignorance, but how did the the Silvia and 300zx co-exist without cutting into each other's sales in Japan? The two both sold well and were priced about the same as what people would propose nowadays in relation to each other. I hope that makes sense.

10-23-2006, 08:43 PM	#28
WILDACEX187 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: QUEENZ, NYC Age: 38 Posts: 3,103 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	no more rwd. i dont see it happening for a long time. get your fixes with used 350's cuz that altima wont be rwd. sorry i just dont see it __________________ SR POWA COUPE LUVVV!!!

10-23-2006, 08:50 PM	#29
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 37 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	How do you know they sold well? I thought the 300ZX was not popular in Japan because the S-chassis performed nearly as well out of the box, and the Skyline GT-R had far more potential. Someone will have to post sales figures on that one. In any case, here's what kills it: 1. We all agree that this mythical "RWD, VQ-powered, 260ish-HP Altima Coupe" must come in way below 30k, probably below 25k, maybe even more given the existance of a 27k base model 350Z that has 287hp. 2. The lowest, stripped out V6-equipped Altima sedan comes in at 23k. A coupe will sell in lower volumes than the sedan version, and is unlikely to come in at or below that price tag, meaning it'll be $24-25k. Were this car to be RWD, Nissan would have a $25k, RWD coupe (Altima) and a $27k, RWD coupe (350Z). I concede that the Altima would be a 2+2 and the 350Z is a 2 seater, but find me another car manufacturer that has successfully sold two nearly identical cars in this manner? 3. Again, Toyota has the Solara coupe and Honda has the Accord coupe. They are FWD. These are, essentially, 2-dr sedans, and in this market, people do not care about RWD or FWD (they'd probably be turned off by RWD). What Camry or Accord buyer is looking for RWD? Maybe their kids, but the kids ain't signing the checks. Nissan has no motivation for making their competitor in this segment RWD. 4. The name. Altima. Altima's always been FWD. If Nissan wasn't even clever enough to make the GT-R an Infiniti, instead choosing to stick to "tradition" (read: mistake), they aren't gonna change the Altima. This is a weaker point, but still relevant. If this lower priced FM-platform car were to be RWD, it would have "sx" or "z" in it, or something close to that. 5. Nissan's lineup hole is, again the Sentra SE-R, which should come in right around $21k. Their "sports car" lineup would be a bit tight if they had a $20-$22 Sentra SE-R, a $25k RWD Altima coupe, and a $27k 350Z. Make the Altima coupe FWD, and it's no longer in the "sporty" part of the lineup, instead slotting into the Solara, Accord Coupe, G6 fighter category. I actually like the Fiora, as it would make a nice "neo-510". Give it RX-8 style suicide doors, a 3.0L VQ with 225HP or a pumped up QR, and you'd have a new segment: 20k, 4dr, 4-seat, RWD sports sedan. Problem? Nissan isn't Mazda or Subaru. They're not that innovative.

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