This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 143 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Croustibat · 06-15-2012, 07:27 AM

Guys, firewall @ work blocks page 143 because it "contains pr0n" . Is there a way you could remove the offending images / links / whatever ? Please

swiftmini · 06-15-2012, 07:31 AM

its only the word, ill edit it

Darren · 06-15-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiftmini

well it depends if you want more camber or less camber. pointing in will give more camber, pointing out will give less camber

He's rotated the hat though... he's trying to adjust caster, not camber.

swiftmini · 06-15-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren

He's rotated the hat though... he's trying to adjust caster, not camber.

Yup. but he asked whether it should point in or out. both will give near enough same caster but camber will be dramatically different between the two

EDIT: like this vvvv

Tearlessj · 06-15-2012, 10:55 AM

Thanks I figured it out. Now I wonder how much caster I could adjust with the top hats.

Motary · 06-15-2012, 02:36 PM

I got started with correcting my RC today:

With 40mm drop my rc goes from -175mm to -40, so to keep weight transfer in balance I need to swap out the front springs from 8 to 6 kg/mm

NB: picture is of my spare knuckle what I use for measurements and ideas, not finished piece

Also correct me if I'm wrong since my japanese is limited to engrish but this picture seems to show RC and COG height and anti-squat of standard 180SX

Darren · 06-15-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiftmini

Yup. but he asked whether it should point in or out. both will give near enough same caster but camber will be dramatically different between the two

Thanks for clearing that up, i wasn't trying to correct, merely trying to help out finding an answer

Tearlessj · 06-15-2012, 02:50 PM

That is crazy. Looks a little ghetto, but hey if it works it works!

Got my alignment today. Everything went pretty smooth. I didn't really have to explain anything to the guy. Just a little on the IF inners.

Matej · 06-15-2012, 09:22 PM

How much rear toe-in is too much? Any amount?

*DJPimpFlex* · 06-16-2012, 02:26 AM

Toe in makes it harder to slide. More stable on power though, but you need a lot of power to make it work. 0 Toe is usually good.

swiftmini · 06-16-2012, 03:19 AM

Toe in gives you forward bite and really drives the car forward.

swiftmini · 06-16-2012, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

I got started with correcting my RC today:

With 40mm drop my rc goes from -175mm to -40, so to keep weight transfer in balance I need to swap out the front springs from 8 to 6 kg/mm

NB: picture is of my spare knuckle what I use for measurements and ideas, not finished piece

Also correct me if I'm wrong since my japanese is limited to engrish but this picture seems to show RC and COG height and anti-squat of standard 180SX

Yes that pic does look like stock CofG and antisquat.

Are you altering the caster trail on your knuckles at all?

I took some measurements and roughly calculated my rc height ect, i came out with very similar results too you which is interesting.

With my calculations i figured i would need 100mm rc correction to get my rc 60mm above ground.

at the moment i just raised the front end to get the arms level.

swiftmini · 06-16-2012, 03:37 AM

Motary · 06-16-2012, 08:06 AM

I am lowering the points straight down so caster trail does increase, which is a good thing meaning I can run less caster and have good self steer.

Who's setup is that on that last picture? it looks exactly what I want to do next year or so

Why do you want your RC to be 60mm above ground, thats even higher than in standard, it will certainly increase jacking. Wanting soft springs for daily driver use?

Wisefab setup appears to use rollcenter 0mm, very little caster if at all and no kpi either to avoid jacking at huge angles

IThaJokaI · 06-16-2012, 08:22 AM

I came in to this thread, to hopefully be able to understand and learned a bunch.

The last couple pages, have blown my mind... You guys get pretty wild.

nieko · 06-16-2012, 09:52 AM

Start with the first page. And read through it all its pretty magical. Haha

Motary · 06-16-2012, 02:22 PM

So today I went mad:

The steering pickup looks kinda weak compared to the rest so tomorrow I'll cut it off and convert steering pickup to double shear non-coned bolt connection

swiftmini · 06-16-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

I am lowering the points straight down so caster trail does increase, which is a good thing meaning I can run less caster and have good self steer.

Who's setup is that on that last picture? it looks exactly what I want to do next year or so

Why do you want your RC to be 60mm above ground, thats even higher than in standard, it will certainly increase jacking. Wanting soft springs for daily driver use?

Wisefab setup appears to use rollcenter 0mm, very little caster if at all and no kpi either to avoid jacking at huge angles

double wishbone setup via facebook, josh coote i think. i think its an a 350z

mate i have no idea where i want my rc, that why iam just experimenting lol

my current setup by my calcs is +60mm rc with 10kg spring and no anti rollbar. +35mm each side on lower arms, 245 40 17 ad08s. with an rb25 upfront also. But i really like how the car drifts

maybe you can advise me on a better number to aim for

swiftmini · 06-16-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

So today I went mad:

The steering pickup looks kinda weak compared to the rest so tomorrow I'll cut it off and convert steering pickup to double shear non-coned bolt connection

really awesome

Motary · 06-16-2012, 05:15 PM

Thanks! I would aim for 0, its good enough.
For our course work we had to move pickup points to get front rc height 50mm and rear 100mm, so perhaps thats a good one to try

Also use my calculator I made in that class for spring rate choice:
MS excel spring and arb calc

SicBastard · 06-17-2012, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

Thanks! I would aim for 0, its good enough.
For our course work we had to move pickup points to get front rc height 50mm and rear 100mm, so perhaps thats a good one to try

Also use my calculator I made in that class for spring rate choice:
MS excel spring and arb calc

Thanx for the spreadsheet.

There's no way the motion ratio for the front sway bar is 0.9 though..? More like 0.6 just by eye ball'n it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=240sx...NipyUCw&zoom=1

SicBastard · 06-17-2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

There's no way that picture is accurate. The CG is not that far back, and those lines do not line up with the rear control arm attachement points at all.

Motary · 06-17-2012, 03:23 AM

That picture seems to depict anti squat of live rear axle then?

This could be more true:

My s13 in Susprog3D:

Note that the line from upper control arms is drawn from their virtual meeting point

swiftmini · 06-18-2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

Thanks! I would aim for 0, its good enough.
For our course work we had to move pickup points to get front rc height 50mm and rear 100mm, so perhaps thats a good one to try

Also use my calculator I made in that class for spring rate choice:
MS excel spring and arb calc

Thanks man, much appreciated

ill aim for 0mm rc height.

Its been posted a lot of times in this thread that rc should be a long way above ground and as close to cofg as poss. Might even say that in the first post :/

LOL

swiftmini · 06-18-2012, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

So today I went mad:

The steering pickup looks kinda weak compared to the rest so tomorrow I'll cut it off and convert steering pickup to double shear non-coned bolt connection

anymore progress on these?

Motary · 06-18-2012, 05:48 AM

I made a right side one too, but due to lack of time I didn't change the steering pickups, but they will be beefy

Motary · 06-18-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travypoo

Here are the I30 vs the Teins.

What is the total length of the I30 inner tie rod? The Nissan X-trail ones I just bought are 20mm longer than s13 ones, but for my knuckle mod they are way too short, i have about 30mm toe out on both sides

I put the knuckles on the car today and the lock is epic, however not so with wheels mounted, they hit the chassis on leading side

The control arms have not been lengthened

shoguner · 06-18-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

What is the total length of the I30 inner tie rod? The Nissan X-trail ones I just bought are 20mm longer than s13 ones, but for my knuckle mod they are way too short, i have about 30mm toe out on both sides

I put the knuckles on the car today and the lock is epic, however not so with wheels mounted, they hit the chassis on leading side

The control arms have not been lengthened

Im in the same boat. I HAVE to run <205/45/16 so i don't hit the frame. Do you over center at all? I do, I was thinking about making some bump stops to get rid of the over centering and so i can run different tires up front.

frifox · 06-18-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motary

What is the total length of the I30 inner tie rod? The Nissan X-trail ones I just bought are 20mm longer than s13 ones, but for my knuckle mod they are way too short, i have about 30mm toe out on both sides

I put the knuckles on the car today and the lock is epic, however not so with wheels mounted, they hit the chassis on leading side

The control arms have not been lengthened

i30 ones are 35mm longer than s14 tie rods

PerilousActs · 06-18-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiftmini

What is this from? Details?

Any reason to use those knuckles over the z32/r32 style like MotoIQ has been doing on the old XS Engineering long a-arm setup?

06-15-2012, 07:31 AM	#4262
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	its only the word, ill edit it __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-15-2012, 10:55 AM	#4265
Tearlessj Nissanaholic! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Memphis Age: 29 Posts: 1,907 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Thanks I figured it out. Now I wonder how much caster I could adjust with the top hats. __________________ Nagasaki Motors Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

06-15-2012, 02:50 PM	#4268
Tearlessj Nissanaholic! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Memphis Age: 29 Posts: 1,907 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	That is crazy. Looks a little ghetto, but hey if it works it works! Got my alignment today. Everything went pretty smooth. I didn't really have to explain anything to the guy. Just a little on the IF inners. __________________ Nagasaki Motors Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

06-16-2012, 02:26 AM	#4270
DJPimpFlex Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Age: 35 Posts: 6,151 Trader Rating: (115) Rides Gallery: DJPimpFlex Feedback Score: 115 reviews	Toe in makes it harder to slide. More stable on power though, but you need a lot of power to make it work. 0 Toe is usually good. __________________

06-16-2012, 03:19 AM	#4271
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Toe in gives you forward bite and really drives the car forward. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-15-2012, 07:27 AM	#4261
Croustibat Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: France - Toulouse Age: 41 Posts: 1,851 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Guys, firewall @ work blocks page 143 because it "contains pr0n" . Is there a way you could remove the offending images / links / whatever ? Please

06-15-2012, 02:36 PM	#4266
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I got started with correcting my RC today: With 40mm drop my rc goes from -175mm to -40, so to keep weight transfer in balance I need to swap out the front springs from 8 to 6 kg/mm NB: picture is of my spare knuckle what I use for measurements and ideas, not finished piece Also correct me if I'm wrong since my japanese is limited to engrish but this picture seems to show RC and COG height and anti-squat of standard 180SX

06-15-2012, 09:22 PM	#4269
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	How much rear toe-in is too much? Any amount?

06-16-2012, 03:37 AM	#4273
swiftmini Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: uk Age: 38 Posts: 227 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	__________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-16-2012, 08:06 AM	#4274
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I am lowering the points straight down so caster trail does increase, which is a good thing meaning I can run less caster and have good self steer. Who's setup is that on that last picture? it looks exactly what I want to do next year or so Why do you want your RC to be 60mm above ground, thats even higher than in standard, it will certainly increase jacking. Wanting soft springs for daily driver use? Wisefab setup *appears* to use rollcenter 0mm, very little caster if at all and no kpi either to avoid jacking at huge angles

06-16-2012, 08:22 AM	#4275
IThaJokaI Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Port Richey, Fl Age: 33 Posts: 609 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I came in to this thread, to hopefully be able to understand and learned a bunch. The last couple pages, have blown my mind... You guys get pretty wild. __________________ WTB: 1(one) battle version toe rod -Mike Last edited by IThaJokaI; 06-16-2012 at 12:15 PM..

06-16-2012, 09:52 AM	#4276
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 30 Posts: 2,694 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	Start with the first page. And read through it all its pretty magical. Haha __________________

06-16-2012, 02:22 PM	#4277
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	So today I went mad: The steering pickup looks kinda weak compared to the rest so tomorrow I'll cut it off and convert steering pickup to double shear non-coned bolt connection

06-16-2012, 05:15 PM	#4280
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Thanks! I would aim for 0, its good enough. For our course work we had to move pickup points to get front rc height 50mm and rear 100mm, so perhaps thats a good one to try Also use my calculator I made in that class for spring rate choice: MS excel spring and arb calc

06-17-2012, 03:23 AM	#4283
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	That picture seems to depict anti squat of live rear axle then? This could be more true: My s13 in Susprog3D: Note that the line from upper control arms is drawn from their virtual meeting point

06-18-2012, 05:48 AM	#4286
Motary Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Estonia Age: 32 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I made a right side one too, but due to lack of time I didn't change the steering pickups, but they will be beefy

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