drift freaq

[QUOTE=midnight zenki;2270556]Dude do not call me chicken little. If you are such the expert on taxes and on the federal deficit and running the country and can run the country without federal taxes, than you should be in Washington right now. As the savior of the federal government! LOL
Stop putting words in my mouth as well. I did not say the system was horribly fragile, those are your words.

You send me a private message to my asking why I dismissed your earlier post and stating that you are not a ignorant kid.
Now thats Matej's area, lol and he does a pretty good job of it.

Though fact is I did not say anything about you being a ignorant kid though the fact that you brought it up makes one wonder. Usually a person does not say those kind of things unless they feel them.

I am guessing your young based on that statement. I would say your starting to prove your ignorance right here in the discussion.
I doubt you have studied economics and economies of scale. Otherwise you would not be citing propaganda style youtube short films for your reference point on things.
The reason I dismissed your earlier statement was because it was based on a decidedly far left leaning video that had a variety of non experts in their fields being quoted for their statements. Anybody can put something like that together and paint a completely false or slanted statement.
Hell Micheal Moore does this shit all the time, half the shit he does is good and the other half of it is pure inflametory bullshit. He gets away with it though. When I see a video or documentary thats based on a balanced view of things i.e. telling both sides of the story its believable. When I see the inflamatory shit that gets posted on youtube its like ya right , next.
The problem in your argument is you do not have the ability to back up the facts your purporting. Does that make you ignorant? No, uniformed? Most likely, lacking more education in the subject? Definitely. I do not think you have the background in finance to make the statements you make about the cost of running the federal government.

I know I am not an accountant. I know its costs a lot, I know its needs financing from somewhere to work. Those are basic facts. What your trying to say though, is something your speculating on. You don't know, nor do I. Though I know enough that sound reasoning and common sense tells your theories and idea's will not work.

This comes from being in the world a bit longer than you. This comes from actual observation of the economy over a lifetime. This comes from living through two oil crisis. The destruction of the american automobile industry. The involvement in of our country in geopolitical things that most of you were not even alive for. I have lived through 8-9 presidents. I have seen double digit inflation in our country and I have seen our government pull us out of it.

Until you and Matej among others stop citing youtube videos and rhetoric and wikipedia as your basis for facts and arguments your worthless in a discussion like this.
Go out and study PolySci, go out and study world economies and our economy. Start following the economic markets on a daily basis. Then come back and argue your points.

Like I said before most of the posters in this thread had some very valid points based on actual facts and knowledge though you two don't. Sorry the truth is hard to face. Oh and 95inAZ is not far behind you guys.
Seriously guys don't get involved in these discussion unless you have real facts or knowledge and not stupid internet bullshit as the basis of your facts.

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highwaystar22

Fairtax.org

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atom

Dude, go to the link I posted earlier. They specifically address this issue and explain why this argument doesn't fly.

And are you really gonna try to point to some conspiracy theory movie to prove your point? You can't be serious. You might as well mention Zeitgeist too LOL.

The bottom line is the argument against income tax isn't new and yet the overwhelming majority of Americans pay income tax. And if you think this is because people are sheep, think again. People are willing to put up with a lot of shit, but one thing most people aren't willing to put up with is other people fucking with their money. If there was truly a compelling argument that people could get away with not paying income tax, they wouldn't.

midnight zenki

[QUOTE=drift freaq;2270615]
Cool, so lets start at the top:

Your own words said that without income taxes (thats what I was talking about) the government will fall into anarchy. Whose the alarmist? Where are your facts, where is your economic proof?

2nd:I stated twice already that I don't believe in paying a tax that has been irrefutably shown to be non-existant in its current form of usage in large by the IRS backed up by the Supreme Court (I can't look up the cases at the moment due to my work).

3rd: I am 26, you are roughly 36. I know of all your hardships through those presidency's that I wasn't around for through history books and word of mouth from my parents who did live during those times. They lived through more presidnets than you did so na na na bo bo i.e. who cares history is public knowledge and there is much more out there than just your 36 year perspective.

4th: that far left video(nice use of hot buzzwords that automaticly dismiss any validity due to associated past usage of said words-quote Borat "not")
uses ex employee's of the agency that oversees the crux of this issue as well as actual court cases, provides citation of Supreme Court rulings and also jurors whom deliberated on actual cases (these are the facts). If you have seen it you would realize again that this isn't a party or left vs right issue this is a rights issue and is firmly backed by the highest courts ruling and the constitution; This cannot be challenged no matter how hard you try.

5th: Speculation eh? Your posts have been just that, you assume that our governmnet can't run without income taxes, where again is the proof....you have none. What I have said is that there is no noticable impact upon the deficit, this is a comparative statement to show the insignificance of income tax compared to all othet taxes and total government spending. Here again you took the ball and ran with it but took a hard far-right and veered in to the speculation zone.

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midnight zenki

Thank you for phrasing that in the manor you did, I appreciate your input but respctfully dissagree.

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illvialuver

yeah well im sure who ever you like isan asshole and will not change this nation for the better, its all the same shit.
old as fuck republican a pussy democrate with the same ideas as all of them whereing a different colored face.

its all bullshit. and voting doesnt seem to matter, if anything the last election proved that.

renegade_ewok

I honestly think if they just apportioned all the taxes by income bracket, the majority of people in this country would be a lot happier.

Then again, the people that this effects the most have the most money to bribe with...

The system is broken, but until we get everyone to understand that shit isn't going to change because everyone thinks that this is how it is, has been, and will be.

fliprayzin240sx

I dont have a problem paying taxes, just think it should be fucking overhauled and change to where you only pay sales tax. Honestly, its fair across the board. The people with more money will pay more taxes cuz they buy alot more shit. Isnt that the point of having lots of money, so you can buy more stuff...

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It is "voluntary"... And so is the jail time you will serving for not paying.

Matej

Yes, I posted a Youtube video and a political cartoon, usually not the most reliable of sources. First of all, I never even said if I believed them to be true, I actually mentioned that people who believe that taxes are voluntary are basing their argument on an outdated document that needs to be rewritten, everyone knows that governments of countries are able to function thanks to collected taxes, therefore some form of taxes is necessary, and I mainly only posted the cartoon because I thought it was ironic and funny, in context with what you said.
But, at the same time, does the fact that they are a Youtube video and a political cartoon discredit them 100%? Are all those numbers completely made up, out of nowhere? Is there zero truth behind them?

I admit, in this particular case I am guilty of leaning more towards believing them than not believing them, though at the same time I am not going to argue for them saying they are complete truth.
You seem to have a tendency to automatically dismiss them, and if you feel that strongly about them being blatant lies, obviously you must have more knowledge on this subject than me, and you know something that I do not.
Instead of just calling me ignorant, if they are completely false, can you please tell me why?
I am not going to be upset, I want to admit my mistake, I just want to be corrected and learn the truth so I can stop spreading misinformation, please show me some proven knowledge and solid facts that will completely disprove them.

You can type out all these long paragraphs that make you look intelligent, and people will believe you, and you can make me look like an idiot in the process, but when all is said and done, you have not given any information to enlighten people on the issue. I look back at your posts, and most of the time all you do is call people out on being wrong and ignorant, yet you never really provide any argument based on fact as to why they are wrong. I am sure everyone would benefit if you shared your knowledge with us. As someone in this thread said, you really would make a great presidential candidate, as you do a great job of belittling your opponent and beating around the bush while evading saying anything that shows a solid stance on an issue. Is that what they teach in Political Speech class?
Without knowledge backed up by fact, to me, all of what you said is just opinions and beliefs at best.

As I look at your posts, I see they are the longest and stand out the most, so I am thinking, wow, this guy must know a lot on the subject. Proper grammar, well-structered sentences, paragraphed, convincing, I want to believe what he says.
No matter whether you are right or wrong, that is why you will win every argument on here.
I do not care enough to argue to that extent on an automotive forum, feel free to make me look like an idiot again and have the final world.