Anybody making a wisefab Replica kit yet??? - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*kingkilburn* · 12-20-2013, 04:20 PM

Guys can you help me find a knock off car on the cheap and some knock off skill and passion so I can drift?

#donthatemyswag

xoxide · 12-20-2013, 04:21 PM

My head hurts after reading this fuckery... I have a hard time comprehending how an "automotive engineer" doesnt understand the fact you're paying for r&d, tooling, time on products like wisefab's kits... not the "steel tubes and heim joints"....

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxide

My head hurts after reading this fuckery... I have a hard time comprehending how an "automotive engineer" doesnt understand the fact you're paying for r&d, tooling, time on products like wisefab's kits... not the "steel tubes and heim joints"....

Plain and simple Just wanted to know if anyone had duplicated geometry for a more affordable price. I never said I didnt understand why they charge so much. I watched every video they have produced and read their entire webpage. I understand they have to pay for the Digital 3D mapping machine they use thats within .5mm accurate. I understand that they have an engineer in house paying him a hefty salary for his degree and services. Im not even saying that theyre kit is not worth every penny they want for it. I was only asking about more affordable options. Drifting is pricey as it is.

Anyways Im gonna try out a Keisler Kit. Looks nice. $650. All CNC billet 7075 Aircraft aluminum. Thats Cheaper than my cut spindle/ext lca + mismatch tie rods setup i have now.

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zerodameaon · 12-20-2013, 05:03 PM

You asked for a replica at a cheaper price, so is that not saying you think it is worth less?

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

You really think drifting is all about the parts on the car and not the drivers skill? GTFO. Some 18 year old in japan could probably out drift you in a stock ca18 Silvia...

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Ironically, THATS EXACTLY MY POINT. DRIFTING IS NOT AT ALL ABOUT THE PARTS ON YOUR CAR. CERTAIN PARTS ARE BETTER. CERTAIN PARTS DO THE SAME JOB NO MATTER WHAT THEY COST.

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*kingkilburn* · 12-20-2013, 05:16 PM

And if you want the benefits of the certain better parts you should pay the people that design and make them not cut them off at the knees and drive them out by aping their shit.

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Guys can you help me find a knock off car on the cheap and some knock off skill and passion so I can drift?

#donthatemyswag

Wow man. Thats pretty far. But if everyones goal on zilvia is purely to race a 100% Baller part Show Car then I understand all of your opinions. I dont see a point in involving a car, that you have poured $40,000 into, in a motorsport that could destroy it. I love Legit Baller Parts as much as anyone. Just dont ever plan on destoying my money that way. Most of the Uber expensive stuff is so nice it should be detailed and garaged with a cover inside of a climate contolled garage. I would never light $100 bills on fire either.

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

You asked for a replica at a cheaper price, so is that not saying you think it is worth less?

No. I see the justification of their value. I simply am saying I want a similar product for a lower price and believe others would also benefit from this.

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

And if you want the benefits of the certain better parts you should pay the people that design and make them not cut them off at the knees and drive them out by aping their shit.

I get your gripes. Those who want that kit will buy it. I found the one im willing to pay for. That was my goal for this thread. I achieved it. Unfortunately my opinion differs from several of you and we will have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Its just the internet.

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codyace · 12-20-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

$2000.00 price tag is high. For what its worth of metal including the stainless spherical rod ends. Figuring 6hrs labor in building them $6-800. Now that theyve done all the R&D, All that needs to be done is is replication of geometry. I figure a kit with the same specs for $1000- 1200 is more affordable. Maybe I need to orchestrate the production of these.

Just fuckin wow.

For someone who assumes and figures so much, what sort of fab work have you done or work have you ever done on your car?

You find any shop that is gonna make you a one off for 1000 bucks and I'll send ALL of my CNC and fab work there. Heck I know from my end of things that it would easily take 2 days for setup and measure, let alone cutting, welding, cleaning, powdercoating, etc etc. And that's assuming you have the time for it all. Unsure where you're from, but we're 85-100 an hour depending on the type of work, and I can assure you that 2000 is a steal for something like that, one off.

oni jake · 12-20-2013, 05:59 PM

Vegas Drifter, I definitely understand what you are talking about what you want. These other guys are really upset about economic principles.

-Will someone eventually knock off Garrett Turbos and sell them on Ebay? Already happened
-Will someone eventually knock off PBM suspension parts and sell them under the B-rated companies such as ISIS, Godspeed, Megan? Of course.
-Will someone make a mold of the hottest wheels out there just to make a replica in far inferior metal? Of course.
-Will someone eventually knock off Wise-FAB kits? ______________

I get what everyone is saying here, spend money towards the right guys because Wise-FAB is legitimately looking to help our community. (I personally %100 love their work) However, knock offs are already in the works. A few dudes with CNC machines posted all over the country are working on their own sets. I see these posts randomly on my FB feed, but I don't have enough time to search for more information.

Keisler Automation offers a full CNC'd kit for Miatas right now, and currently working up a S-chassis setup. All the butthurt dudes on here are mad about nothing. This is how our market works, someone takes an established great idea and changes it just enough to make it their own. Argue it as much as you want, then get mad at everyone who has a smart phone and didn't offer up $600 for a iPhone.

xoxide · 12-20-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

Wow man. Thats pretty far. But if everyones goal on zilvia is purely to race a 100% Baller part Show Car then I understand all of your opinions. I dont see a point in involving a car, that you have poured $40,000 into, in a motorsport that could destroy it. I love Legit Baller Parts as much as anyone. Just dont ever plan on destoying my money that way. Most of the Uber expensive stuff is so nice it should be detailed and garaged with a cover inside of a climate contolled garage. I would never light $100 bills on fire either.

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$40,000 into a motorsport that could destroy it? You just described EVERY motorsport pretty much... In fact most motorsports will have you in twice as deep for a "quality" setup car that you could destroy in seconds... Ive been racing outlaw sprintcars all my life... We had more into one rolling frame than I do in my whole 240 track car including the motor... One wheel rub and youve destroyed the car pretty much...

Your ignorance amuses me.

zerodameaon · 12-20-2013, 06:12 PM

^Haha truth right there. Also I am not sure if you have looked at cars like Gittins but its worth a lot more then 40k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oni jake

Vegas Drifter, I definitely understand what you are talking about what you want. These other guys are really upset about economic principles.

-Will someone eventually knock off Garrett Turbos and sell them on Ebay? Already happened
-Will someone eventually knock off PBM suspension parts and sell them under the B-rated companies such as ISIS, Godspeed, Megan? Of course.
-Will someone make a mold of the hottest wheels out there just to make a replica in far inferior metal? Of course.
-Will someone eventually knock off Wise-FAB kits? ______________

I get what everyone is saying here, spend money towards the right guys because Wise-FAB is legitimately looking to help our community. (I personally %100 love their work) However, knock offs are already in the works. A few dudes with CNC machines posted all over the country are working on their own sets. I see these posts randomly on my FB feed, but I don't have enough time to search for more information.

Keisler Automation offers a full CNC'd kit for Miatas right now, and currently working up a S-chassis setup. All the butthurt dudes on here are mad about nothing. This is how our market works, someone takes an established great idea and changes it just enough to make it their own. Argue it as much as you want, then get mad at everyone who has a smart phone and didn't offer up $600 for a iPhone.

Building your own is one thing, taking someones design and reverse engineering it, copying it and marketing it as your own is another.

iPhone is your comparison? There were others way before apple ever even conceived the iPhone. Microsoft has been in the smartphone business far longer then Apple.

I bet there is a lot more different there then just looks. Oh wait there is a lot more going on, WF is a 1pc LCA/Tension rod, the other is not.

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxide

$40,000 into a motorsport that could destroy it? You just described EVERY motorsport pretty much... In fact most motorsports will have you in twice as deep for a "quality" setup car that you could destroy in seconds... Ive been racing outlaw sprintcars all my life... We had more into one rolling frame than I do in my whole 240 track car including the motor... One wheel rub and youve destroyed the car pretty much...

Your ignorance amuses me.

Im speaking of 240s. And am speaking solely about a Car with all parts imaginable being show quality and drifting it. I said $40,000 into One Car. Not a motorsport. Read clearly

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

^Haha truth right there. Also I am not sure if you have looked at cars like Gittins but its worth a lot more then 40k.

Building your own is one thing, taking someones design and reverse engineering it, copying it and marketing it as your own is another.

iPhone is your comparison? There were others way before apple ever even conceived the iPhone. Microsoft has been in the smartphone business far longer then Apple.

I bet there is a lot more different there then just looks. Oh wait there is a lot more going on, WF is a 1pc LCA/Tension rod, the other is not.

Clearly not the same. But still have similar geometry and work theoretically in the same way. $2000 vs $650.... Thats all....

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xoxide · 12-20-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

I dont see a point in involving a car, that you have poured $40,000 into, in a motorsport that could destroy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

Im speaking of 240s. And am speaking solely about a Car with all parts imaginable being show quality and drifting it. I said $40,000 into One Car. Not a motorsport. Read clearly

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No mention of 240.. You spoke in broad terms of dumping 40k into a car that you could destroy in a motorsport.

oni jake · 12-20-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

Building your own is one thing, taking someones design and reverse engineering it, copying the idea and marketing it as your own is another.

This is has been the standard model for many companies. Want Pepsi or Coke? iPhone or Galaxy? F150 or 1500? Big Mac or Whopper? If it's a straight mold and copy with no self interpretation, then yeah, that's kinda fucked. I don't think the OP's intentions was asking or justifying who makes the exact molded copy for cheaper, but if there's anything else on the market that can achieve the same effects. This thread just got sidetracked with Zilvia hate bullshit from the second post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

iPhone is your comparison? There were others way before apple ever even conceived the iPhone. Microsoft has been in the smartphone business far longer then Apple.

I used that as a basis because it's pretty much the first and largest successful touch screen phone kick starting the smartphone as we know today.

That's getting a bit off track from WF stuff. The above foremomention of Keisler Automation was at the top of my head for similar suspension products. There's tons more.

The hate in here is ridiculous.

zerodameaon · 12-20-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oni jake

This is has been the standard model for many companies. Want Pepsi or Coke? iPhone or Galaxy? F150 or 1500? Big Mac or Whopper? If it's a straight mold and copy with no self interpretation, then yeah, that's kinda fucked. I don't think the OP's intentions was asking or justifying who makes the exact molded copy for cheaper, but if there's anything else on the market that can achieve the same effects. This thread just got sidetracked with Zilvia hate bullshit from the second post.

I used that as a basis because it's pretty much the first and largest successful touch screen phone kick starting the smartphone as we know today.

That's getting a bit off track from WF stuff. The above foremomention of Keisler Automation was at the top of my head for similar suspension products. There's tons more.

The hate in here is ridiculous.

Don't change my words please.

zerodameaon · 12-20-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

Im speaking of 240s. And am speaking solely about a Car with all parts imaginable being show quality and drifting it. I said $40,000 into One Car. Not a motorsport. Read clearly

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Really so Dais car should not be in drifting? You sir are a moron.

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerodameaon

Really so Dais car should not be in drifting? You sir are a moron.

Crazy how my opinion for my own pocketbook makes the Golden Standard of What Should be drifting or not. I wont drift a baller part build, I dont think its necessary, but thats my opinion. Im not condemning it. But thanks for giving me that much power that you feel my opinion has set a Law

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zerodameaon · 12-20-2013, 07:36 PM

You are the one that said it not me.

lgsr20swap · 12-20-2013, 10:13 PM

Wow.

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-20-2013, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgsr20swap

Wow.

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Yep.

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*kingkilburn* · 12-21-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

Im speaking of 240s. And am speaking solely about a Car with all parts imaginable being show quality and drifting it. I said $40,000 into One Car. Not a motorsport. Read clearly

What the fuck is this show quality nonsense? Are we building cars for brownie points at HIN?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasDrifterS13

Clearly not the same. But still have similar geometry and work theoretically in the same way. $2000 vs $650.... Thats all..

You've proven your grave ignorance on the subject of suspension links. There is a fuck ton more involved than them looking marginally similar to your untrained eyes.

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-21-2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

What the fuck is this show quality nonsense? Are we building cars for brownie points at HIN?

You've proven your grave ignorance on the subject of suspension links. There is a fuck ton more involved than them looking marginally similar to your untrained eyes.

K Dude. No more of this thread for me. Obviously theyre completely different. BUT THEYRE ACHIEVEMENT OF 0 ACKERMAN AND 60+ DEGREES OF LOCK ARE SIMILAR, NOT EXACT, AND THE PRICE TAGS ARE VERY DIFFERENT, THATS ALL. And if you read THE FIRST COMMENT THOUROGHLY I was talking about NOT caring about having a show car to Drift In. All these guys and their "baller parts only" attitudes. You all have Giant Internet Ego's and I will not continue to bicker with you folks. GET A LIFE!

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codyace · 12-21-2013, 07:13 PM

VegasDrifter, any pics of your car or it in action? I'd love to see what you own.

VegasDrifterS13 · 12-21-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codyace

VegasDrifter, any pics of your car or it in action? I'd love to see what you own.

Just an S13 Hatch, Kouki tails, blacktop Sr, S15 T28, supertech pistons & rings, Acl bearings, micro polished crank, tomei rocker arm stoppers, Sard 550cc inj's, trust 3in downpipe, 3in ebay exhaust, Aem wideband & A/F guage, Redline Efi ECU, 1 Bar of boost 14.6psi, Nismo Clutch, Nismo SSS 2way diff, Alum 1 piece DS, Tein Flex Coilovers, circuit sports rods, Signal Auto Bucket, Nrg wheel, F&R strut bars, 6pt safety 21 bolt in, Apexi AVCR boost controller, Apexi SAFC2, sittin on stock 14 se wheels, Nothin Crazy. Very mild nothin special, but extremely functional.

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-21-2013, 08:19 PM

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VegasDrifterS13 · 12-21-2013, 08:22 PM

Heres some more.

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codyace · 12-21-2013, 09:36 PM

So you expect a cheapy knock of kit, yet have overpriced generic stuff on your car?

Concentrate on the rest of the car, then worry about your angle kid. I'd say start with those shat coilovers.

12-20-2013, 04:20 PM	#31
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,041 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Guys can you help me find a knock off car on the cheap and some knock off skill and passion so I can drift? #donthatemyswag __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-20-2013, 05:16 PM	#36
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,041 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	And if you want the benefits of the certain better parts you should pay the people that design and make them not cut them off at the knees and drive them out by aping their shit. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-21-2013, 07:13 PM	#56
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	VegasDrifter, any pics of your car or it in action? I'd love to see what you own. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

12-21-2013, 09:36 PM	#60
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 36 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	So you expect a cheapy knock of kit, yet have overpriced generic stuff on your car? Concentrate on the rest of the car, then worry about your angle kid. I'd say start with those shat coilovers. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

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12-20-2013, 04:21 PM	#32
xoxide Post Whore! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 2,807 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	My head hurts after reading this fuckery... I have a hard time comprehending how an "automotive engineer" doesnt understand the fact you're paying for r&d, tooling, time on products like wisefab's kits... not the "steel tubes and heim joints"....

12-20-2013, 05:59 PM	#41
oni jake Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tallahassee FL Posts: 416 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Vegas Drifter, I definitely understand what you are talking about what you want. These other guys are really upset about economic principles. -Will someone eventually knock off Garrett Turbos and sell them on Ebay? Already happened -Will someone eventually knock off PBM suspension parts and sell them under the B-rated companies such as ISIS, Godspeed, Megan? Of course. -Will someone make a mold of the hottest wheels out there just to make a replica in far inferior metal? Of course. -Will someone eventually knock off Wise-FAB kits? ______________ I get what everyone is saying here, spend money towards the right guys because Wise-FAB is legitimately looking to help our community. (I personally %100 love their work) However, knock offs are already in the works. A few dudes with CNC machines posted all over the country are working on their own sets. I see these posts randomly on my FB feed, but I don't have enough time to search for more information. Keisler Automation offers a full CNC'd kit for Miatas right now, and currently working up a S-chassis setup. All the butthurt dudes on here are mad about nothing. This is how our market works, someone takes an established great idea and changes it just enough to make it their own. Argue it as much as you want, then get mad at everyone who has a smart phone and didn't offer up $600 for a iPhone.

12-20-2013, 10:13 PM	#52
lgsr20swap Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: conn Age: 40 Posts: 425 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Wow. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk