XperienceM5G

You can't believe everything you see on the internet just like you can't believe everything you see on the TV.

I understand that everyone is going to have their own opinions about it. But it's not about who's opinion is better, so let's do our best to be mature and not flame because you can't handle someone elses opinion.
For the sake of intelligent conversation at least.

__________________
"It's like an act of murder; you play with intent to commit something."
Duke Ellington

Sleepy240

Ok I'll bite. I have seen "both" Loose Change movies which in all honesty are very similar. It doesn't really explain the "jet fuel theory", all it does is state how THEY view things happening. Both sides have ENGINEERS, Construction Workers, Architectural designers saying they are correct and the other side is wrong. Conspiracy side says, "No way could jet fuel burn hot enough to melt the steel. They obviously had bombs, or used thermite. This is an inside job!!". The government side says, "The impact and heat was enough to sufficiently weaken the structure to the point where it would fail.". The Pentagon "strike" as you call it has no evidence to support any of the missile attack theories or the like. If any conspirators believe that an airplane leaves a cutout of its shape in a crash like in the cartoons your sadly mistaken. Hell just look at the twin towers. If you didn't see that it was a plane, you could have told me it was a bomb and I would have agreed. And on top of the the pentagon is a REINFORCED security bunker DESIGNED to resist impacts so damage would be minimal, IE the relatively small damage compared to that of the towers. Next your video complains that they can't find the tail or wings to the plane. Did you need to find the tail, or wings believe a plane crashed into the towers? The plane is nothing but fucking aluminum.

Let me start this by saying your spelling is the most atrocious thing I have ever seen. But honestly why even bring up the Nostradamus predictions? That has no relevance to anything. The history channel shows lots of INFORMATIVE shows about ACTUAL events(IE 9/11). Plenty of people in the media lie, I'd gladly trust a credible news network than some bullshit anybody in the 7th grade can type online. You don't need any sources to post online, and frankly most people are gullible enough to believe you. Just look at the people who fall for the "Nigerian Billionaire" scams. I could make a website that declares that aliens actually fired missiles and used holograms to make them look like planes and that is how the Towers were attacked. Oh wait somebody already came up with that and PEOPLE BELIEVE IT. So again I'll gladly trust CNN or for Christs sake Fox before I trust some crazy conspirator online.

Again seriously before I start, LEARN TO FUCKING SPELL CHECK. Download fucking FIREFOX it can automatically check your text! Your not saying its cold hard fact because it is not. Sadly your smart enough to realize its garbage but still don't put 2 and 2 together. The "movie" (and I use that term very loosely) is basically exactly what your complaining about. To the government spreads nothing but a lot of propaganda and lies. Go figure that is exactly what "Loose Change" is. It is nothing but third rate sources with sixth rate information spun into a giant cluster fuck of fail. And as far as you grouping "the majority of the nation" into the "brainless racist bible belt super pro America right wingers" I have to disagree. Maybe in your hick town but for the majority of educated Adults this is not the case. I think you need to check what you say before you just spit out this pile of phlegm. Your random generalizations make me realize how meek you really are. Its pretty obvious as to why you believe A LOT of the 9/11 conspiracy propaganda. The key with propaganda is its easy to get to the people who are weak minded and don't think for themselves (that is you in case you missed it).

This has no relevance to ANYTHING in this entire thread , maybe you clicked on the wrong thread when you tried to post a reply?

Can you please give me a instance when America lied? Guantanamo (Notice how that is spelled?) Bay was the act of some scumbag individuals, not the great conspirator George Bush and cohorts.

Finally! Something with some truth! I have no doubt that they had knowledge of an imminent attack. How believable was it? It was about as believable as the attacks on Pearl Harbor. You honestly expected a country that had NEVER been attacked to believe the Japanese were going to sail across the ocean to bomb us? To be 100% honest I would undoubtedly had made the same decision Roosevelt had made and ignored it. I can't speak for fact but I'm sure there were tons of other random "intercepted messages". Pearl Harbor was the last time that American soil was "truly" attacked (unless you consider the original WTC bombings, which personally I don't). It was no secret we were sending the British supplies, we also were sending supplies to other foreign countries. Just because your not AT war doesn't mean your not involved in it. I'll give you a hint, they called it a "World War" for a reason (and that was before the USA was involved).

It is OK, I can google "9/11 Conspiracy" and few 12893719823 sources for your information.

I'll await your reply =)

__________________
Been awhile...

SimpleS14

I have to point out that the comment about "no tail or wing" in the video is related to the Pentagon. The damage to the Pentagon was minimal (as you said), yet there is hardly any debris laid across the field that is common with a plane crash.

There are pictures of planes hitting mountains and even then there are recognizable pieces of a tail, wing and/or other large pieces debris.

Example:

__________________
Goals are dreams with a deadline.
L.H.O.O.Q.

BustedS13

Open Microsoft Word and do the following.
Type the capital letters Q33 NY. This was the flight number of the first plane that hit one of the towers.
Highlight Q33 NY.
Change the font size to 48.
Change the actual font to Wingdings.
Now what do you think?

__________________

SexPanda

So Microsoft perpetrated September 11, 2001? Well, AT&T did lease 11,000 square feet of the WTC. And AT&T has the Apple Iphone... Do you see where Im going with this?

In all seriousness, the whole word thing, and the 20 dollar bill thing... IMO just coincidence.

__________________
BRAND NEW GReddy PRofec E-01 EBC for sale, Cheap!

nakedave

This thread is an insult to every single american soldier (especially those that died overseas since 9/11.) You can debate this all you want, either way, you can't change what happened. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster. This thread disgusts me.

__________________

92 240sx w/ SR20DET swap and manual conversion!-http://www.cardomain.com/id/slidways240

SexPanda

My father has been in Iraq, Afghanistan and the UAE 4 of the last 8 years, until his retirement. I've lost friends in Iraq, and I now have a friend with PTSD. Once again, I made this thread to keep all of the bullshit out of the other thread. Accept it for what it is. Its not pretty, I know, but I'd rather have the bullshit going on here than in general OT.

__________________
BRAND NEW GReddy PRofec E-01 EBC for sale, Cheap!

BustedS13

ooh the $20 is the spookiest!!!!!
it's like, you fold it, and there's TEH WTC!!! and then you're like, wow that was crazy, and you flip it over and it's like OMG THE pENTAGOON!!!!!!!"

ALSO DID U KNOW THAT THERE R 11 LETTERS IN "NEW YORK CITY"

__________________

SexPanda

LEIK OMG NO WAYZ!!! 11 Letters in NEW YORK CITY! THATS SCARY!

But in all seriousness, you realize there are people out there stupid enough to think that shit is legit.

Like, 300 years ago, someone decided "I'll call this city New York City, because on the 11th day of some month in the future, something bad will happen. And I put a hint in the name."

__________________
BRAND NEW GReddy PRofec E-01 EBC for sale, Cheap!

BustedS13

it used to be New Amsterdam. they changed it because it was too many letters.

i think i heard that in Loose Change

__________________

SexPanda

If you look hard enough, you will find Shakespeare in See Spot Run, and Mozart in NOFX.

__________________
BRAND NEW GReddy PRofec E-01 EBC for sale, Cheap!

BustedS13

you ever sync up Dark Side of the Moon with Wizard of Oz, man? that's another thing the government doesn't want u to know about.

third lion roar, man. third lion roar.

__________________

Matej

The government made a deal with a rather well known NYC real estate developer who hired David Copperfield to make the towers disappear.
As for the plane crashes, that was all work of Michael Bay.
I cannot believe there are still people out there who believe the terrorist story.

deolio

nah bro...........

__________________

sidewaysil80

no its not...they didnt die because of the twin towers they died over a war in iraq. let me ask you a question, say the street gang the bloods went on a field trip to saudi arabia...they decided to bomb something while there. then the saudia govt declares war against them. how would you feel about them invading our country while the tracked them down and turned our country into a warzone. would you sit on your ass or would you defend the country against invaders, even though you DONT agree with the bloods or their actions? the war in iraq was a joke, it is a joke. we should have been in afghanistan from day one and stayed their. i'm god damned ashamed that we were there and it went on as long as it did...especially while the war profiteers pockets got fatter and fatter. and a quick disclosure...
before anyone attempts to call me out or ask me "who do you think you are" i strongly advise you keep that shit to yourself, i've given more and done more for this country more then prop 98% people on this board. im god damned sick and tired of people saying if you question 9/11 your un-american or your disgracing the dead...fuck that...not questioning is disgracing them. we dont fight for this corrupt ass govt (been that way for decades) we/most un brainwashed people in the grunts fight for each other and nothing more. i'm not getting involved in this thread anymore.

drftmark

I knew someone who died in the war, that does not mean I am dishonoring them by thinking our govt was responsible. The innocent people on the plane didn't "have" to be in on it to get killed.

They were collateral as well as everyone else in the trade centers. There is thousands of people who were there that heard multiple explosions before the planes even hit. The lead engineers who made the WTC's have said that the buildings could have taken multiple hit's by planes and still stand.

Also the buildings fell at free fall speed. (not even gonna talk about building 7 cause that i just a 'wtf how did that even fall') If you watched the WTC's, you could see them fall like there was nothing beneath them. Where the plane hit, 6 floors below it was fine, electricity was on and everything, totally normal. SO how could it have fallen at free fall speed when there is 70+ unaffected floors beneath it acting as a resistance?

Matej

ranger240

yeah thanks for giving me the title of the dumb-ass movie. its clear the idiots who made it didnt go through facts with much scrutiny.

i didnt read the rest of what you said because its a waste of time.

Loose change was stupid (i DID watch it) and it is a weak cornerstone source of information for the conspiracy argument.

what were the credentials of the people who made that vid? besides being some lonely kid in their moms basement....

__________________

ranger240

stupid idiot argument 1.. multiple explosions. whats the common statement on Eyewitness accounts? that they're notoriously unreliable. if you hear a big bang and later saw a building collapse, and that building also made a big bang sound, wouldnt you relate them? possibly. now if you remember a bang before the plane hit, wouldnt you say well that doesnt make sense, that bang must have came from the building.

its how the human brain works (well maybe except for some people in this thread) what if that rational association was flawed. this is drawing upon intro philosophy class, the bird and sonic boom proof. it goes something like everytime a person see/hears (or smething) a bird they also hear a sonic boom. now that person, without knowing anything else would assume that there is a causal relationship between the bird and the sonic boom, we know that isnt true. now say they hear a sonic boom and then they hear another sonic boom when they see the bird. are they going to believe that the bird caused it? nope

i hope you get how that relates to the "i heard an explosion, then i heard an explosion and saw the plane hit"

stupid idiot argument 2 the plane/structure issue. if im not mistaken, the WTC was designed to take theoretical hits from the largest airplane available at the time of its design, which was the boeing 707 if i remember correctly.

in addition, wouldnt the designers go out publically and say "oh yeah it wasnt a badly designed building, its certainly not my fault"? of course they would, to preserve their reputation.

i could rip apart this stupid argument further, citing how many uncontrolled variables there are associated with something as massive as the WTC attacks, and how a theoretical model certainly could not have tested for all of them... but if you believe what loose change tells you, you're obviously not smart enough to get it.

third stupid argument 3 the gravity b.s. the ONLY thing your statement says that has anything remotely to do with actual physics is the word resistance. you said, yeah it looks like it was falling unhindered? how do you know? you dont. youre going off this empirical fallacy that is central to conspiracy theories. let me dig up my physics textbook.... yeah everything falls at a rate of g = 9.81 m/s squared

lets see the twin towers were 442 meters high so tell me how long would it take something 442 meters up to fall to the ground?

how can you say, "oh they looked like they were in free fall" and expect that to hold weight? an eyewitness testimony of physics? yeahhhh.

heres a thought, how about we take a picture of two balls of similar size and different weight falling off the leaning tower of pisa, then we edit the video so that it is infact falling 5% slower. do you think some slob off the street will recognize that it is not in fact falling at free-fall? NOPE

let me further bury your idiot argument. (i used this argument of orientation/distance/percieved speed to justify why i get speeding tickets) this is to explain why you and countless idiots thought it fell too fast

perceived speed (i.e. how fast something looks) entirely depends on ones distance from it in addition to its actual speed. it also depends on the aptitude of the witness (how fast they can process information) but anyway. thats why an airplane up in the sky appears to inch along and like 5 inches a minute, its 40,000 miles away. try to stay with me dumb-ass. so if you see something like the twin towers fall from a camera say 3 miles away, it will appear to move at the same speed as say someone much closer to you walking by or something.

with that considered, how on earth can one possibly argue that something falling (viewed from an undetermined camera vantage point distance) "MUST be falling unhindered by the 70 floors below" and as a result it "MUST have been planned"


please try to dish out a counter, you cant youre dumb. sorry son.

__________________

BustedS13

__________________

illvialuver

I think it is funny how most of the people who are all Captain America Spec with the patriotism and think that Dubya actually gives a damn about every single person and would never do something that would kill 5000 of the 305 million people who live in the U.S.A .( and that number is as of Feb 2009 NOT 9-11-01, meaning it was less then) Hell NO he doesn't. Just think about that percentage for a minute. If someone put you in a room and then put 305 million dollars in cash in front of you and said see all this money? Do you want to make lots more? It will cost you a little though. Then you close your eyes and they remove 5000 dollars. When you opened them do you think you would notice that 5000 was missing? NO. IMPOSSIBLE, you would not notice. We are all nothing but ants to the people who run the government. You put people in power, and give them damn near absolute power, and they will be corupte. Power corupts. Fact.

I do not think that mentioning all the things that don't add up in this crime against the American people is un-American. The people who have died in 911 and since then have not died in vein. Especially not the soldiers. Because soldiers follow orders. Bottom line. So it is not as if they chose everything in there life or had control of where they were at and at what moment. They were where they were commanded to be, and did what they were told to do. They did that because that is was and is there job. Shit rolls down hill, and the people at the top make all the rules, and the most money. War is always about profit.

Another thing to ask yourself, is this, why don't animals have wars with other animals? I don't see one group of Chimps trying to take over all of Africa, or one school of Fish trying to conquer the ocean. Because animals do not have profit just survival, they don't have money, or states or contries, and they don't feel the need to control other species, or areas larger then what they have. It is all greed.

I have seen a bunch of documentaries about this, including the stuff on the mentioned videos and the information mentioned in the zeitgeist movie, ( which explains much more about the demolition, and the fact that there was not any video footage of the pentagon even thought major buildings surounding the pentagon with video footage had the footage confiscate minutes after it happened. and the lack of plane debris at the pentagon and the one that crashed in the middle of no where. The cut marks on the structural suport of the towers to impliment the pancake effect. Ever wonder why the buildings did not fall over like trees and damage more of the city? Plus tons of more shit about it, like how firemen(heros like all the rest of the soldiers)heard explosives in the basement more then the two caused from the planes crashing, and they were in sequence and right before the towers fell. Or the clean up crews that said the biggest peace of debris they found was a piece of a dial pad, and everything else was burn and ash and dust, but they found a passport of a middle eastern man, and said that it came from a fuckin plane and belonged to one of the terrorist and magically it survived the building fallin but nothing else did? That does not seem like planted evidence? Like a setup? To make it better the said man lived in like Minesota! He had to come forward because he saw them blame him on the news! The fact the Bush and Chaney would not show up for individual interviews by the press in questioning about there being something fishy. They showed up together, and they publically admit it was to save time and keep there story straight. But the American Public paid all of this 2 seconds of attention because they were and still are scarred out of there minds by the brainwashing of the words terror and terrorist being said ever 5 seconds on news and tv dramas. If they had nothing to hide they would simply answer all this bullshit. And when something sounds too good to be true it is because it is.

You ever wonder why when you watch or read anything and the main character says ...
"this is easy, too easy" what does that mean.............. its a SET UP! a trap! You should hear the norad tapes, norad you may ask? yes look it up, Chaney was in control of it, and conveinently had them running test for terrorist hi jackings in all corners of the us, as far away from the wtc as possible and when the real calls came in for the hi jacked palins they did not know if it was training or irl. There is so much shit, that weighs against buying into this terrorist shit.

I am proud that out country has people who work in the military. Who have jobs that put themselves in the line of fire or at risk for death. For our rights, for our liberties. I appreciate you all. I respect you all, but in the end your following orders in a very long chain of command, and your far from the top.

I do not think any soldier died in vein or ever really does( unless its friendly fire) and even then they dont die in vein, they are doing their job, following orders. Every military member knows the risk when they go to active duty. 5000 is alot. I think 1 person would be enough. Thank you to all of you who are members of the military for your willingness to sacrifice the ultimate sacritice.

I wonder if our last president ever read this quote.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots.-Thomas Jefferson

I could talk about this all day but obviously I am one of the few in here who disagrees with the the majority.( whom just happen to have miliatary back grounds, so I understand why this is so personal to them) So this is all I am going to say about it, the information is outthere, you can use logic and physics and actual proof and reasoning if you want to think for youself. Or you can just accept things for what they are at face value, for what you told they are, even if they don'y add up.

BustedS13

tl;dr
dtom

(don't tread on me)

__________________

irax

I believe... that if the towers were to fall due to damage and impact it would of fell towards one side and not straight down. I know this might be seen as a bad example but the Eiffel tower falling in G.I. Joe a fictional movie is more realistic on how a building would collapse when the structural support on one side was significantly damaged.

The fact remains though, that we will never know what REALLY happened. Ultimately the average American Citizen is truly the victim of a heinous crime.



+4trillion imaginary rep for illvialuver

__________________
Drives a BRZ and is building a V6 S12 coupe.

Matej

9/11 never happened.
It was a ploy to convince the American population that a war was necessary, just like the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
New York is a fictional city originally created by Hollywood, which in turn is funded by the government to keep Americans distracted and make them dumb.
Has anyone ever actually been to New York in person?
That's what I thought.

irax

Have you ever seen demolition in person? or a structural collapse?

Ohh.. that's what I though.

__________________
Drives a BRZ and is building a V6 S12 coupe.

BustedS13

in reality, all states aside from California and Arizona (and hawaii, BIG ISLAND ONLY!) are all cgi
just cali puliln' the wool over ur eyes sheeple
i'm a hologram

__________________

Matej

Bro, here I am on your side and you shoot me down.
No but seriously, I did think that the towers falling down in the first place and on top of that falling down absolutely perfectly causing minimal damage to all buildings around was definitely a huge 'coincidence' as soon as I saw it happen.
Don't want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist though.


Still upset about Gulf of Tonkin incident being made up. Kind of wish the government didn't lie for 30 years.
Maybe in 30 years from 9/11 they will explain what happened in detail.
Only to be totally downplayed by the media for some reason.

irax

one of the problems with our society is that if you question something that the media presents you get labeled crazy. Often times people are called unpatriotic for even questioning what is going on or opposing anything that is in popular concencous(sp?). 30 years ago the government said it was ok to turn in your neighbors to the authorities if they talk about communism. now they tell you anyone that questions the president is crazy.

__________________
Drives a BRZ and is building a V6 S12 coupe.

illvialuver

I just wanted to check on the direction of this thread, and proof read my last post because it was really late and I typed a lot. Anyway, you mentioned the gulf of tonkin, but what about the u.s selling fuel to the Germens for their tanks before we entered the war? If the governments past is littered with lies and conspiracy why is it so crazy to think 911 was such? It is not, it is just plain logical.

It's as if some people think learning from the past is a bad thing.

atutt

Since day one I've always thought that it was an inside job.

My grandfather (who was an iron worker, which sparked my interest in metal work and how I became a welder), pointed out that how they fell, was like a demolition. And, that structural steel shouldn't fail due to fire.

There are too many discrepancies with the terrorist theory. In my eyes anyways.

I thought it was interesting how the 9/11 Commission asked the president and the douche bag to appear separate and under oath. When asked to be interviewed about 9/11. However.
They're were not under oath.
They appeared together.
No families members present.
No transcript.
No official statements.
Why no transcript though?

Also, WTC 7 is a pretty interesting topic too. So is the fact that the gov't refuses to release the footage of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon. Why not release them if it was in fact what they claim?