icer

Maybe ca18guy could help me. Is a ca18det swap worth it i know its cheaper then sr20det and also smaller 1.8 < 2.0 . But how is it performance wise, i just can't find much info on it. Thanks

'91 240sx SE (auto ...blah)

S13Grl

It's a 1.8l, 175hp with about 160-170lb/ft of torque (not sure about that one). I'm 90% sure that the material is iron block and aluminum head, but then again... don't quote me on that.
I think the engine itself is a pretty nice investment, and I would definitely suggest it.

I'm sorry, I really couldn't tell you much more than that it is a 1.8 liter, DOHC 175hp (of course, single turbo). Sorry!

ca18guy

Here, i'll give you some CA18DET propaghanda, it's pretty good info. I'll write up my own reply to this in alittle bit <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The CA18 is believed by many to be Nissan's best motor and in many ways better than the SR20. Also available as a 1.6l and a 2l, the 1.8L twin cam is the very nearly perfect. Being exceptionally smooth, reliable and compact the CA18 has all the virtues of an ideal conversion motor.

With direct fire ignition, twin cam 16 valve cross flow head, mini-butterfly plate &amp; spark plug mounted coils the CA18 is a highly engineered motor, and it was these attributes that lead to its demise. Being too costly a motor to be produced with too many parts having high production costs. Regardless, many of the developments used on the CA 18 have been carried over to other Nissan motors, such as the crank angle sensor, direct fire &amp; spark plug mounted coils as well as others. Running a relatively small turbo standard, boost is smooth in its delivery and comes in early at approximately 3000 rpm. Coming from a variety of front and rear wheel drives car, the CA18 can be grouped into either an early or late variant. The early being non-intercooled and having a finned crossover pipe from the turbo to the inlet manifold passing directly over cylinders 2 and 3. The late model always being intercooled and having a more conventional forward facing inlet manifold.

The RWD gearboxes of the CA18 are a substantial size and can often cause problems when fitting them. They are however part of a series of gearboxes where there are 4 different lengths, each of which is interchangeable with a bell housing swap. The gearboxes are considerable strong and will last a decent period of time under normal driving.




The following is Glenn &quot;Lumpy&quot; Campbell comment on the SR20 vs CA18:

Some Points of Interest – the CA18DET –vs- SR20DET

Certainly there appears to be a great deal of interest out there in which one of Nissan’s ’hot-4’s is the hottest of the bunch.

Nissan have made some very formidable hot 4’s in the past, but this note is aimed directly at S13 owners who may be looking at either the CA18DET or SR20DET engines.

Firstly let me say that the SR was never designed to technically supersede the CA in any way other that cost. As with natural evolution and development the SR became more powerful. How much of that power is directly attributed to the fact that it is a 2 litre rather than only 1800cc?

Many of the famed benefits of the SR20DET were in the CA18DET too. Piston oil squirters and crank stud girdle for starters.

Externally, The 2 engines look completely different, and they should. The first obvious difference is the SR’s shiny alloy block, Next you notice the different inlet manifolds. The list goes on. Don’t mistake that alloy bloke as being lightweight either – there is that much alloy in the thing to keep it strong that they weigh no less than the CA.

A lot of people refer to the CA as ‘the plastic motor’ – why I don’t know, when the SR has exactly the same item made from plastic right on top too. Obviously the CA looks a bit boxy and I guess plasticcy (?), but….

Lets take a quick look at the intake design of the 2 engines. The SR uses a 4 runner manifold and a 4 port head. Standard garden variety manifold design. The CA on the other hand starts with a 4 runner manifold and then splits into 8, entering the head as an 8 runner manifold. Every second runner is only flowing air under certain circumstances (high air flow). Much more sophisticated design, and much more expensive to produce. I think the theory of this manifold design was to regain some low-down torque missing as a result of the comparatively lumpy camshafts used in the engine.

Some feel that the combustion chamber design of the SR20 is also better than the CA, however I am yet to hear that report from anyone who has actually seen both types of engine in S13 RWD trim for a valid comparison.

There’s more to the head than that too. Looking above the valves, the first thing that grabs you with the SR is that is only has 4 cam lobes per cam, not 8. Doesn’t it have 8 valves per side? Yep, and to get around that Nissan decided to use a rocker arm arrangement to actuate paired valves simultaneously from the single lobe. Not a bad way to do it actually. Certainly cheap to make, but at the cost of increased valve train losses and noise. The CA on the other hand has true 8 lobe cams which act directly on the top of the valves. Minimal components. Maximum revs, and no noise.

The SR has also gone back to the classic timing chain idea, and dropped the tooth belt. My theory here is it has something to do with reduced maintenance costs and less damage when the belts fly from lack of maintenance.

Obviously, the SR is a bigger engine in capacity, it has a relatively long stroke and is ‘over-square’ in design, meaning that the stroke is longer than the width of the bore. Fortunately the stroke to rod length ratio is at such a point that the engine can still rev, but it suffers classically from excess stroke. Sure, they rev out, but not anywhere near as willingly as the little CA with it’s square design (stroke=bore).

Many hi-po USA engines are using oversized pistons from the 300ZX, bringing the stroke/bore relationship back a bit, and providing a cheap source for forged pistons and further increased capacity.

Sure they rev out OK, but not anywhere near the same as a CA. I'm talking stock engines here too, not comparing an SR with aftermarket cams on modified lobe centres, which wouldn’t be a fair comparison now would it!

In retaliation to the plastic tag for the CA, I would now like to refer to the SR as Nissan’s 4 cyl domestic truck engine. The TRUCK MOTOR !!!

So, in conclusion, there is no real winner in this debate - they are not predecessor and successor that is for sure.

I guess the best thing about the SR is that it is almost still in production (although getting very old by other examples) and is well supported by the aftermarket industry. This makes it an excellent choice if you are going to be rebuilding the engine for a specific purpose or inflicting a lot of bolt-ons to it.

There are obviously many more variations between the engines. This writing is simply a small part of it. I will continue this article soon. Any comments appreciated and if anyone has some facts of would like to contribute, please forward them to me [email protected]

The CA will have to remain the unsung hero.



*** Glenn LUMPY Campbell ***

Racing, Performance, Motorsport (RPM)

Drift Style S14

At one time i even thought about putting in a CA the only problem was that i was never able to find a good support of aftermarket products for the CA. &nbsp;ca18guy could you post a list of aftermarket products that you were able to find? and what is the potential power that you could get out of a CA. would you be able to get 350 hp out of one???

Drift Style S14

this thread needs more attension please put in your imput!!!!!!!!

LanceS13

My CA knowledge at this time is limited, but I do plan the swap hopefully this spring. &nbsp;From what I've gathered so far......It is iron block DOHC. &nbsp;It comes with a T25 turbo good to about 240hp. &nbsp;Upgrade the turbo and the internals are good to 350hp. &nbsp;The manual tranny can take over 400hp. &nbsp;So far, it seems to have gobs of potential...even if you just start off around 170hp. &nbsp;Check out this page...<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pidgejas/main.htm" target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/pidgejas/main.htm</a>

konkman

Damb, CA18guy, you've done your homework. &nbsp;I don't think I'm going to do a swap, but that is really interesting. &nbsp;

If I do consider it I may have to go for a CA turbo rather then the SR.

Drift Style S14

well i was checking out blitz website a while ago and there are a bunch of turbo upgrades for the CA... this is the only engine swap that is pulling me away from turboing the KA, i want to see what kind of aftermarket parts there are for it...

konkman

Norris Technology is the best I have seen.

It's a european company, but the have everything to push the CA to 280hp at the wheels. &nbsp;Not on a project car, but a customer car.

LanceS13

They have 300, 330, 360, and 400 hp &quot;conversions&quot; (as they call them) as well. &nbsp;Of couse, price increases exponentially with each level of hp.

Drift Style S14

what is the norris technology web site address? lance where did you see the conversions?

konkman

Did you see Jason is selling his black s13 CA for around 6500 Pounds.

I also think he shut his site down, that sucks.

oh by the way how many hp does the ka and sr tranny handle?

ca18guy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Drift Style S14 on 2:10 am on Nov. 21, 2001
what is the norris technology web site address? lance where did you see the conversions?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

<a href="www.norrisdesigns.com" target='_blank'>www.norrisdesigns.com</a> i'm on my lunch break i'll write about the other stuff afterwork.

S13Grl

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from LanceS13 on 2:35 am on Nov. 21, 2001
From what I've gathered so far......It is iron block DOHC. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Thanks so much, I thought it was and was almost 100% sure that that was so, but while researching, I couldn't find any information online.

One more question:

The CA18DET obviously uses a timing belt (if I'm not mistaken-reading from the article CA18Guy posted up there). Since there are no service manuals and no information about this engine in the US at all, wouldn't it be a problem if the timing belt were to break?

Or am I wrong and the same engine is used in the USDM Sentra without the turbo?

S13Grl

Also, I found this:

CA18DET for sale on EBay

ca18guy

OK, first off the engine is ALL Iron, and makes 175HP at 10 psi of boost on a T25 turbo. To get servicable parts (ie the timing belt, water pump, thermostat) well you just need a thermostat that fits that no big deal, but you should be able to source parts through the importer that you bought it from. If that is not a option you need a &quot;hook up&quot; give Courtesy Nissan a ring, they are a dealership that supports the aftermarket and can get you OEM parts from Japan (or europe) there address is <a href="http://www.courtesyparts.com" target='_blank'>http://www.courtesyparts.com</a> give them a CALL emailing would take too long and it would be frustrating trying to get speedy service. The only US car that has a engine similar to the ca18det would be the engine out of the mid 80's 200SX which was a ca18et, don't be fooled, that is a seperate SOHC engine, you might be able to get alternators/water pumps same size oil filter, but I can't be sure on this (like the thermostat the oil filter could also be a trial and error item too, buy something that looks like it fits then try until you find one that do's) I heard service manuals mention above, they are available free to download at <a href="http://www.silvia.hl.com.au/techinfo.asp" target='_blank'>http://www.silvia.hl.com.au/techinfo.asp</a> follow the instructions and get your self a free service manual. Now I also read that would'nt it be a problem if your timing belt broke? Well if your timing belt broke, locating another timing belt would be the least of your worry's, I think finding the $$$ to buy new valves/pistons/cams would be problem number one, like I said before get routine maintnence parts from your &quot;hook up&quot; be it your engine dealer or courtesy like i said above. Replace the timing belt every 60,000 (#### why not make it 50,000 you don't want to lose that engine) and there's nothing to worry about, if you can transplant a engine in your car I sure hope you can keep up on the regular maintnence a car requires. Allright you have your ca18det, keep it running good now you want to mod, but how much can it handle? Well, i'll tell you the &quot;limits&quot; of the engine then I'll tell you what I would do if i got a ca18det transplant in the states. The total highest HP out of a CA for the street would be around a SR's total for a resonable street car, which I peg as 450 HP (you will need $$$$ and time and experience with motors in general to get this) now back to resonable figures, i'll lay out the boundry's and let you figure out when to do what <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> The stock turbo is good for up to 250/260 HP. You need to upgrade the ECU after 220 HP due to a fuel cut off that occurs after that (easy fix), The injectors are running flat out at 310 HP (stock=370cc) so after that you need to upgraded them, the standard clutch is good for 270 HP, and it's time to get internals when going for 400 HP, also upgrade the AFM to go over 300 HP. Anyway thats most of the parts I can think of and there safe &quot;breaking point&quot; Now if I was home in Clearwater FL (ie. we have no emmissions) here is what I would do with a ca18det engine swap. First as with anyswap please drive the car around for a month or 2 to make sure everything works correctly and nothing breaks that you would need money for.{this is for a 300 HP goal} Now first things first would be the intake, personally I would get the K&amp;N kit, it's $100 do's the same thing as the expensive shiny blitz/HKS units and you have the million mile gaurentee so you never need to replace it, you could make your own but for only $100 I see no reason why not to just buy this kit. Next up is the Exhaust, you can get any regular cat-back exhaust (3+ inches please) now if I was in the US I would have a shop make me a dump pipe and mid pipe, so from the turbo to the cat back exhaust (get rid of the cat in case you did'nt know) you will have the biggest mandrel bent exhaust you can get, my opinion 3 inches should suffice. Next up would be a boost controller, get one hook it up and turn the boost up to 14psi from the stock 10psi. Next up is the intercooler, get a front mount intercooler, there are upgraded side mounted cooler-forget about them you are better off with a FMIC. Now get the biggest FMIC you can find (the smallest I would get is a starion intercooler) once again if you don't buy a kit you will need to get custom piping, so have custom piping made (ie muffler shop, machine shop, ask a local part's store who they recommend in the area, and be nice, back home I got the connections with the local places cause I'm down with a Local parts dealer, not autozone) also now would be a good time for a blow off valve. OK you know have a large intercooler, boosting to 14psi, intake and exhaust you will probably be hitting that fuel cut off I mentioned so time for the ECU upgrade. So you should go with Norris design's on this one (they are very reputable with the Ca18et and the ECU upgrades are pretty cheap) get a FCD UniChip (good for up to 280 HP and needed to boost over 16 psi) and a stage 1 chip which will get us to our 300 HP mark i'm shooting for (good for up to 360 HP) these I must say are &quot;piggy back&quot; units but are the standard for the CA. Now lets see what we have, we have a large intercooler, boosting to 18psi now, intake and full exhaust , this set up should be good for around 240-250 HP, that means our tenny tiny turbo needs to grow up <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Now the largest turbo you can fit on a stock exhaust manifold is a T28 anything bigger requires a custom manifold, a T28 would be adequete for the 300 HP goal. So fit the T28 on there (it will not be a perfect fit you will need to do some fabrications maybe to the mounting plate and the dump pipe), now buy a new larger AFM, I would upgrade the fuel pump and get a fuel pressure regulator at this time to, also time for the cluth/flywheel to get upgraded. Now bump the T28 to 19/21 psi and you have yourself 300+ HP. You might want to upgrade your brakes:) Now your saying &quot;but where do I get parts&quot; well I think I went over how I would get my parts when I talked about the upgrades but I'll reiterate, get a T28 turbo from a turbo store (you should have a turbo rebuilder some were near u if not call one from in the ads in the back of turbo mag) Get the intake, blow off valve, ECU upgrades fuel upgrades (even the front mount intercooler if you want) from norris designs custom the FMIC, full exhaust <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> There did I leave anything out?<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> There are other places, but you need to look, http://www.dpmotorsport.com/cars/j25.htm, &nbsp;but norris has the rep (kinda like JWT)..... So any more questions/comments <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??



(Edited by ca18guy at 1:59 pm on Nov. 21, 2001)

burgy240

Thanks for the info. &nbsp;I've been debating the CA for a short time now. &nbsp;Anyone know about it's emissions? &nbsp;I'll have to check locally. &nbsp;thanks.

zephyr

ca18guy-is your car badged a 240sx or a 180sx?

ca18guy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from zephyr on 2:10 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
ca18guy-is your car badged a 240sx or a 180sx?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Neither, it's a 200SX (don't ask why I have no idea)

BlankFlip

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 4:23 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from zephyr on 2:10 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
ca18guy-is your car badged a 240sx or a 180sx?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Neither, it's a 200SX (don't ask why I have no idea)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

2.0 l's for the sr's, not the ca's? could that be why?

stix

I think I want a CA now. :cool:

Strider

I think i'm starting to lean towards a CA now too. <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
You said that the CA can push out 250/260hp on stock internals if i'm correct. What can the SR do on Stock internals too? the &nbsp;s13 redtop.

Thanks
Strider

hey ca18guy how does your car run..how does it feel...???...1/4 miles??..ever tested....

Drift Style S14

What are the engine specs for the CA, Bore and other info...

mistert

as an interesting note, you CAN transplant the CA18DET head to a CA20E block. the CA20E block is pretty much the same i do believe, other than the crank, and get this, it DOES use a timing chain (wierd, eh?). the CA18DET head on a CA20E block will outpower a redtop SR20DET, i guarentee it. Think, it is the same displament and everything 86x86mm (right?) with a very similar combustion chamber, but with a better intake system, and 3 more stock PSI on the same turbo.
the CA20E is available domestically in the US as well, i believe, from several mid-late 80's nissans. i believe the pre-89 200sx was a recipient of this engine (also, interestingly enough, available with a vg30e in it).

CA series are definately a viable swap that has been overlooked on the US market and given an unfair break. I guess everyone just lost interest in it by the time 240sx's exploded here (haha, yeah, right) in the import world, as silvias and 180sx's everywhere were already sporting the SR engines. i would like to see someone build a ca20det here and see how it does. I know there was one being built in australia, but they were going straight to a twin turbo system (sort of pointless if you ask me), so we never really got to see what this engien would do if it was just made into a frankenstein and left alone.

sorta like building a CRVTEC or something in the honda world, i guess, only a helluvafuckinlotcooler.

ca18guy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Strider on 7:21 pm on Nov. 23, 2001
I think i'm starting to lean towards a CA now too. <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
You said that the CA can push out 250/260hp on stock internals if i'm correct. What can the SR do on Stock internals too? the s13 redtop.

Thanks
Strider
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I said the stock turbo can only support up to 250/260 HP. The internals are good for 350/400 HP, what the SR supports I don't know, seems like it would be around there to.

ca18guy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Drift Style S14 on 2:12 am on Nov. 24, 2001
What are the engine specs for the CA, Bore and other info...
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

CA18DET
[email protected]
[email protected]
1809cc
EFI
DOHC
16valve 4 cylinder
Intercooled
Compression- 8.5 : 1
Turbo- T25
Injectors-370cc
Not sure but I think the bore and stroke is a perfect square 80-80
Most 0-60 #'s I see range from 6.4 to 6.7seconds
Most 1/4 mile test's I see average out to 15 seconds
Top speed is 140mph (I can confirm that it atleast do's that <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> )





(Edited by ca18guy at 9<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 am on Nov. 24, 2001)

mistert

ca18guy what do you think about the ca20det hybrid motor?

ca18guy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from mistert on 9:22 am on Nov. 24, 2001
ca18guy what do you think about the ca20det hybrid motor?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well this is the first I have heard of this. The CA20E comes in 84-88 200SX and 84-88 Stanza in the US. I'm assuming this hybrid would be only a CA20E block with a CA18DET Head/Exhaust/Intake Manifold. You also would have to swap out the piston's and such for lower compression, if they can be swapped and if they were swapped would they ruin any displacement gain (if the ca20 got it's displacement from a factory &quot;stroker kit&quot; then the ca18 internals would bring it back to 1.8 L). How much of a clean swap all of that would be I don't know, until someone try's it. It might be worth it to look for a &quot;stroker kit&quot; from Japan instead. Of course you could probably get a CA20 pretty cheap from a junkyard to try it out. Interesting <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>