Joe_M

Putting together a simple turbo setup based on the T25. Would this setup be an efficient/safe way of getting to run 10 pounds?

I have been looking at PJ's posts here and on FA trying to get as much information from his setup as I could. The only thing he has listed that I do not understand is the 4 bar fuel setup.

With running 10psi (or possibly more) on this simple setup, I am planning on using 370's from an SR, stock S14 MAF, Walbro 255, and a GReddy Emanage to tune it all. How much timing do I need to pull out of the ecu with the Emanage? I don't think PJ is using any kind of aftermarket/piggyback ecu to run his setup. As far as I know, he is running a hacked MAF and I don't really want to run that.

Also, I don't want to run a FMU since that is just a bandaid or cheap way of going around the fueling issue. From what I understand you can run the stock injectors with an FMU and run 7 pounds on that turbo, but again, that is just an easy fix. I'd rather do it the right way by substituting in the larger injectors and EManage.

So would 10 pounds, T25, S14 MAF, Walbro 255, and an EManage be sufficient for my basic kit? What kind of hp/tq numbers am I looking at? Could I run more boost if I wanted to? How much more fueling would I need if I wanted to run 1 bar on the T25?

As far as the exhaust side A/R's, the SR has an A/R of .64, but I still have my CA T25 laying around, but it has a smaller .49 A/R. I know this will sacrifice a large part of the top end power, but I rarely drive my car above 4k rpms anyway. Would a smaller A/R have any issues with heating up the manifold quicker i.e. EGT's?


Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I can't wait to start in on my project S14 and then boost my daily driver S14 over the winter.

Joe

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1991 240SX LE Fastback SOLD!!
1992 USDM OneVia CA18DET powered SOLD!!
1996 240SX Base Model Rockin' the 4 Lug
1995 240SX Base Model $400 project car... and it runs!

240Stilo

You'll be fine. You just need to research on the e manage or find someone who has used it. Your stock MAF will max out at 240hp but im not sure if 10psi on the t25 will make 250hp or go over. I forgot how much boost PJ was pushing when he hit 280something hp so just look through his posts again. Everything seems ok just that you might want to get one step colder spark plugs and a 300zx fuel filter.

What IC will you be using?

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wootwoot

get a t3-t4 out of a saab and buy a cast manifold. cast manifold=same price of the manifold i imagine you are using. i just consider the t25 way to dang small for a ka24, even if you only want moderate power.

96twofourty

be careful about your tuning at 10lbs, the stock ring lands are know to not hold up well

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95Blue240sx

Just remember that the t25 is only efficient enough up to 14lbs. Forget about using the FMU and stock injectors. Go with at least 370cc injectors and a piggy back. PJ runs a SAFC on his car for fuel. Since you are going with a piggy back might as well pick up a z32 mafs. That would cost you a extra $100 roughly. About timing i think most KAT people run at 14*btdc.

For more solid information visit www.ka-t.org.

-BJ

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sr240mike

That t25 is too small for the ka. Go with the t3 family of turbos since there's quite a few ka manifolds for them. There's a few ka's that are running the Ford t-bird t3's with the .60/.63 a/r, just dont use the .42/.48's those are too small. Those can be had rebuilt for around $300.

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Joe_M

Thanks for the tips. But I think I am pretty much dead set on the T25 setup for atleast my daily driver. Now my project S14, I might go with a T3 setup or maybe just a GReddy kit, but those things are notorious for low power for some reason.

If the S14 MAF is going to konk out by 240hp I will just go with a Z32 again. Better safe than sorry on the fueling side.

As far as tuning on 10 pounds to keep from blowing rings, besides fuel and spark tuning, what else needs to be addressed before hand?

Anyone running the EManage? I would love to talk to you guys about it if anyone has some input on it.

For a FMIC I am going with an S13 GReddy kit. 605 from eBay the last time I bought one and it came in like 3 days. AWESOME!


Thanks!

Joe

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1991 240SX LE Fastback SOLD!!
1992 USDM OneVia CA18DET powered SOLD!!
1996 240SX Base Model Rockin' the 4 Lug
1995 240SX Base Model $400 project car... and it runs!

RBS14

John aka "Maeda" has an emanage on his kat.

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wootwoot

t3's are notorious for low power so your going to get a t25????....

Id-

you guys sure are quick to criticize a T25 turbo setup when all your vaunted T3/T4 piles of garbage make LESS power and spool SLOWER... a 50-trim T3/T4 is a horrible compressor trim for the stock CR and internal KA... it doesnt rev very high and its not made to run over 15psi of boost on the stock block...the 50-trim wheel is made for higher rpm and higher levels of boost... if you dont believe me go look at the compressor map

check out AceInTheHole's setup... he made 275whp on a T25! thats on pump gas at like 13psi... which is fine with 370s and 4bar fuel setup... I see so many T3/T4 setups making 200-250whp its sickening... the T25 setup is FAR cheaper, will spool faster, and be plenty efficient at the boost levels the KA is good at running... 10-13psi specifically..

and to set the record straight; ring lands dont pop due to too much boost...

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92 Nissan 240sx base coupe
-clean KA24DE swapped in
-GTIR T28
-Big FMIC
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-J30 VLSD w/ subframe spacers
-RPS Max clutch
-3" turboback
-PLMS Daughterboard on modded ECU

95Blue240sx

Sorry for the newb question, but what is a 4bar fuel setup? Is that just a ~56psi fuel setting? I'm not to smart on the fuel part, but did he just up the fpr?

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RBS14

^^^^^
you got it. instead of the stock ~43psi. As you can probably imagine running the injectors close to 100% duty cycle with increased fuel pressure is only a temporary thing....... injectors don't last long being run like that. Some people will go "you're wrong, I've been doing it for over a year now with no problems". However, it's only a matter of time before one of them goes static. With the availability of 480's and their relatively cheap price, there really isn't a good reason to run 4bar pressure on 370's.

An adjustable fpr is how you do it, you answered your own questions my friend.

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95Blue240sx

Thanks for clarifying(sp?).

One more thing I don't get is why people don't run a rising rate fpr. All turbo cars are equipped with a 1:1 ratio rising rate fpr(RRFPR). This would ease the tuning thought the rpms, instead of just adding more as rpms go up. Just another thought.

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Joe_M

Good info guys....

So running 370's on stock fuel pressure is not advisable then?

Keep 'em coming!

Joe

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1991 240SX LE Fastback SOLD!!
1992 USDM OneVia CA18DET powered SOLD!!
1996 240SX Base Model Rockin' the 4 Lug
1995 240SX Base Model $400 project car... and it runs!

ledzeppelin240

Doesnt AceInTheHole have an SR with the T25? Why don't ring lands dont pop due to too much boost. Turbo pistons have reinforced ring lands...

-chris

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Id-

Uh I believe the STOCK regulator is already 1:1... in fact almost all cars are 1:1 stock regulators that use a return-style FI system

no he has a KA24 with a T25

ring lands pop due to detonation which can be caused by MANY things, ignition, fuel mixing, compression levels, air volume, manifold air temperature etc, etc, etc and many of these things can cause one or the other.... its way more complicated than saying (like a dumbass): "OH NO!!! YOU CANT RUN TEH BOOST AT 14psi!! YOO MUST KEEP IT AT 13!!!!!11!!!oneone It'll break your ringlands!"

no turbo pistons dont have 'reinforced' ringlands... they have THICKER ringlands; its nothing but how the piston is designed/made... they dont have some magical reinforcement alloy that makes them stronger

these statements arent directed at anyone in particular; but more at the ignorant statements i see all the time

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95 Lexus SC300 5-speed
-DD pimp car

92 Nissan 240sx base coupe
-clean KA24DE swapped in
-GTIR T28
-Big FMIC
-565cc STi Injectors w/ Z32 MAF
-J30 VLSD w/ subframe spacers
-RPS Max clutch
-3" turboback
-PLMS Daughterboard on modded ECU

ledzeppelin240

Hah, first part was just a question...By reinforcement I did mean stronger/thincker. The top ring groove wears the most due to normal operating situations. It is forced towards the bottom of the groove during combustion. Which in hand can cause wear to the piston. So this leaves many things like said below to wear the grooves...

I have been thinking about the T25 turbo but can not find a compressor map anywhere. So going with a T3 "60" Trim .63 A/R turbine will will leave it in the 65% range nearing redline on paper. In reality there are quite a few more variables, but this is a good start. This is running 12psi I beleive...

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Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.

Looking for: JDM S13 OEM Sideskirts

Id-

good luck finding a compressor map for a T25
there are quite a few different T25s out there actually... for instance the Mitsu DSM T25 is very different spec-wise than the SR T25

a T3 would make a pretty good turbo; especially the 60 trim.. it'd be efficient at the boost levels you're looking at too

__________________
95 Lexus SC300 5-speed
-DD pimp car

92 Nissan 240sx base coupe
-clean KA24DE swapped in
-GTIR T28
-Big FMIC
-565cc STi Injectors w/ Z32 MAF
-J30 VLSD w/ subframe spacers
-RPS Max clutch
-3" turboback
-PLMS Daughterboard on modded ECU

kazuo

AceInHole ran a T25 with CA injectors (370's) IIRC and little else (He may have had some sort of piggyback, but I don't remember) on a DOHC KA and he put down over 200whp @ 7psi.

Dyno chart looked good.

It's not hard to do, it ain't rocket science...

dori2 s13coupe

maybe this could help http://www.majesticturbo.com/compresson-maps.html

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ass15

igot the t25 setup. w/ fmu 4:1... 8:1 was very rich. hopefully 4;1 will be little better.

+ walbro255lb.

95Blue240sx

Regarding the FPR being at 1:1,i dont think that is right. If you look into the FSM, it is at a fixed rate no matter the rpm.

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Id-

yah fixed rate... 1:1 is a rate... its not a fixed value
it means it cant be adjusted; trust me on this... people wouldnt be running 370s + afc with -27% across the board, 2deg retarded timing and a T25 or some other turbo, making 250whp and still having motors that run.... on the STOCK regulator...
people dont adjust to ADD fuel in the upper rpm band unless theres a reason to; and i've never seen anyone mention they had to add progressive amounts of fuel from the onset of boost (maybe a little adjustment over the stock curve; but nothing compared to fuel flow equivalent to 10psi+ of fuel pressure)

__________________
95 Lexus SC300 5-speed
-DD pimp car

92 Nissan 240sx base coupe
-clean KA24DE swapped in
-GTIR T28
-Big FMIC
-565cc STi Injectors w/ Z32 MAF
-J30 VLSD w/ subframe spacers
-RPS Max clutch
-3" turboback
-PLMS Daughterboard on modded ECU

wootwoot

diddnt i say the t3 was a good turbo and then you procedded to bash it and now you just said it was good again?

Id-

who bashed a T3? I bashed a T3/T4 50-trim... which is a stupid turbo to put on a 9.5:1 compression pump fuel motor...

__________________
95 Lexus SC300 5-speed
-DD pimp car

92 Nissan 240sx base coupe
-clean KA24DE swapped in
-GTIR T28
-Big FMIC
-565cc STi Injectors w/ Z32 MAF
-J30 VLSD w/ subframe spacers
-RPS Max clutch
-3" turboback
-PLMS Daughterboard on modded ECU

Joe_M

Back to the original subject... no T3 talk in here.... All T25/28 talk only.

Ace wasn't running CA injectors since CA's are topfeeds and also low impedience, hence not a direct drop in without some headaches.

I am going the Emanage route with it compensating for the larger 370 SR injectors. I will also have it running a Z32 MAF too. As for fueling maps, I can just retard the base timing a few degrees and run it off the stock fuel map, or try and find someone who would share the GReddy preprogrammed turbo kit map along with the required timing. That will all be done on the stock fuel rail and stock regulator.

With that in mind... what is the optimum boost that can be safely ran with 94 octane pump gas? Again, this will also have all the bolt-ons associated with a normal swap... FMIC, o2 housing, 3in DP, full exhaust and intake system.

This thread should be used to dispell rumors and hearsay about building a reliable, inexpensive alternative to turbocharging with mostly factory SR parts. We need good information here, not garbage.

Joe

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1991 240SX LE Fastback SOLD!!
1992 USDM OneVia CA18DET powered SOLD!!
1996 240SX Base Model Rockin' the 4 Lug
1995 240SX Base Model $400 project car... and it runs!

95Blue240sx

Interested in what manifold are you going to use.

I always wondered if the SSA manifold with a t25/28 turbo, 02 housing and downpipe would directly bolt up.

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Joe_M

That is what we are going to find out....

Joe

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1991 240SX LE Fastback SOLD!!
1992 USDM OneVia CA18DET powered SOLD!!
1996 240SX Base Model Rockin' the 4 Lug
1995 240SX Base Model $400 project car... and it runs!

95Blue240sx

Keep us posted. Im working on gathering my parts as well. I just want to see if there are any modifications for this to work out.

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Vadim's13

With Buttom mount turbo header and the rest of Sr turbo back sistem will bolt right on, some times it will hit ur steering llinkage(sp?).... So u have to bent down pipe..
Ihope this helps!

Vadim