Harvard professor arrested for breaking into his own home - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*!Zar!* · 07-21-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

true...but like i stated earlier, this wouldnt be making headlines if the officer was black, and still took same actions...sucks but true...

You're wrong.

It's because he's in Harvard.

More than white people can do things wrong.

You think black cops are immune to ill treatment of individuals?

**Phlip** · 07-21-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar!

You think black cops are immune to ill treatment of individuals?

I agree, I have encountered more (and worse) dickhead black cops than white cops in my days.

VROOOM · 07-21-2009, 04:08 PM

some people(regardless of race) just cannot have alot of power. it goes to thier head and they act like fools.

***Future240*** · 07-21-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLIP

I agree, I have encountered more (and worse) dickhead black cops than white cops in my days.

Exactly why I quoted cube.

I agree about this being a story due to him being a Harvard professor. Because we all know its a scientific fact Harvard professors are made of gold and shit roses.

ronmcdon · 07-21-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Easy said.

Dude was locked out of his house, has to first deal with that drama.

As to where he finally gets in only to have the police hounding him and treating him like a criminal.

People don't like being accused for things they are not guilty of.

It's funny how people didn't side with the cop who hung up and arrested the girl for screaming at him over 911 (here)

It's easy for people to reason and say what should have been done only because they have had time to reflect as well as think with a clear head.

Did he assault or attack the cop? No.

Knowing how cops perform, I know they didn't just walk up to the door with smiles and happiness.

I'm responding to the info presented in the article.
Granted it isn't as detailed as I would like (police report link doesn't even work for me).
But, it is a source nonetheless.

So far, we know this:
We don't know that the cop was accusing the Prof for things he wasn't guilty of.
We don't know that the cop was 'hounding' the Prof and 'treating him like a criminal'
We do know that the Prof accused the cop of being a racist, tried intimidating him, and yelled at him
We do know that the Prof got booked pretty much for "exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior" (not something the Prof wasn't guilty for).

Details of the actual confrontation between the Prof and police in the given article is VERY scarce.
To me, it is written in a way that favors the cop.
There very well might have been inappropriate judgement and abuse of authority on the cop's part, but we can't just assume that's automatically the case without any support.
Maybe you have additional sources that clarify the details for the confrontation?

Yelling at a cop, intimidation, and making offensive presumptions isn't going to produce constructive results no matter how you look at it.
Just because you're in your own house, and in a bad mood doesn't justify disorderly conduct to an officer.
You don't have to punch a cop in the face to get arrested.
Laws are so vague & cops have so much discretionary power that they can get you for pretty much whatever they want.
If the Prof did not want to get arrested, he should have known better.

The 911 operator incident is entirely apples & oranges.
That was a life threatening situation, this is not
There was extensive evidence to point out the call operator had screwed up.
There was recordings of the actual conversation, apologies from the police chief of wrong-doing, etc/
Here, we only have some half-assed article and a link to a police report that doesn't even work.

Exactly what are you getting at?
"It's funny how people didn't side with the cop who hung up and arrested the girl for screaming at him over 911"
What do you find amusing about either situation, reactions to it, and what are your reasons?

HyperTek · 07-21-2009, 05:22 PM

if only people where as openly minded like that with MJ's accusations. lol

ronmcdon · 07-21-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

But I am saying that no one here was there to witness this incident. So everybody back down off their high horses, and calm down. Everyone here is a screen name, red, blue, black, purple, whatever. We're just names. RELAX.

It's difficult to say.
Article in question was written in a way that friends of the professor might have been there:

"Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said."

Doesn't mention specifically that the 'Friends' were actually there though, but the article seems to imply that.
(or that's my impression anyhow).

Agreed it's pointless to get riled up (for those of you that are).
Article is so sketchy and lacking details.
It's difficult to evaluate a situation like this, without a well documented source.
I think it's a confusing read.

Mi Beardo es Loco · 07-21-2009, 05:23 PM

Either way this is the cop's fault. NO WAY do I see a highly educated man becoming belligerent if the cop were to do his job properly. This is how the stop SHOULD have sounded like:

*knock knock*
*professor answers*
cop: hi sir, we're investigating a disturbance at this property
professor: oh yes, I was locked out of my house and had to find another way in.
cop: good enough. Do you have any identification that you're the home owner or renter....something that proves you live here.
professor: well here's my drivers license with my picture on it and I have pictures all around the house with me and my family.
*cop verifies his story*
cop: very good sir, thank you and have a nice day
*cop leaves*

It is the police officers responsibility to keep the situation calm. It takes a real idiot to not take the police serious and it doesn't sound like this professor is an idiot. IMHO, the cop may have been too aggressive too quickly and infuriated a brilliant man and embarrassed him in front of his family in his own home. The man fought back and got picked up. If I were the superior officer I would suspend that officer with pay until the investigation is over and try as hard as I possibly could to make this story go away.

After all, a reasonable man would know that the cop is securing the safety of his own house. A Harvard professor just doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

LeonL · 07-21-2009, 05:28 PM

Man, I was about to attend Harvard. Now I changed my mind, pick ITT instead.

ericcastro · 07-21-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

he was arrested because he yelled at the cops, im sure they warned him to tone his voice down *ive had this warning before*...

I was arrested for"obstructing justice".
Which is basically telling the cops they are wrong and dont have a right to what they are doing.
A night in jail at 18 years old,
a good layer
several months later and a lawsuit that was for $250,000.00 getting dropped,
cop is unemployed

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLIP

He wasn't even locked out of his house, the front door was jammed, he went in through the back door, turned off the alarm and was trying to get the sumbitch open when nosy neighbor bitch apparently can't recognize her damned neighbors and calls the cops because "2 black men in backpacks are breaking into the house."
He was in the house when the cop came, the cop sees identification and should have called it a fucking day. He doesn't do this, instead he continues to ask him to come outside, to which he -- well within his rights -- questioned and asked for a name and badge number... Cop, feeling like this uppity Harvard negro is disrespecting him, arrests him when he should have called it a damned day and apologized when he saw proper identification, but instead arrests...

There is no way in hell this cop was within his rights here, and that is why the charges were dropped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

Hey Phlip. Good work as a moderator.
Thanks for calling me a motherfucker.

Good work.
What a way to be a shining example for the site.

Good work though, really.
Sorry for being a motherfucker.

Only I can be that much of a pussy BH
toughen up.
Dont reference every black man to Obama somehow.
Its kinda racist in itself.
Although you were playing off of the poster above you's comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

LOL .... ohh jesus... ***playing the worlds smallest violin for Brian***

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Funny thing...

My wife just read the story and commented "I could see you getting arrested, just like he did." Because I would have been highly upset at the situation.

Guess what, I'm a pale white guy. Behavior dictates action.

Am I saying Mr. Cop is completely guilt free? Nope

Am I saying "Havard negro", as it was so eloquently put earlier, is completely guilt free? Nope

But I am saying that no one here was there to witness this incident. So everybody back down off their high horses, and calm down. Everyone here is a screen name, red, blue, black, purple, whatever. We're just names. RELAX.

i can picture that too.
I think any strong willed person that feels they are being taken advantage of unjustly on thier own property is gonna just say "fuck off" eventually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

Either way this is the cop's fault. NO WAY do I see a highly educated man becoming belligerent if the cop were to do his job properly. This is how the stop SHOULD have sounded like:

*knock knock*
*professor answers*
cop: hi sir, we're investigating a disturbance at this property
professor: oh yes, I was locked out of my house and had to find another way in.
cop: good enough. Do you have any identification that you're the home owner or renter....something that proves you live here.
professor: well here's my drivers license with my picture on it and I have pictures all around the house with me and my family.
*cop verifies his story*
cop: very good sir, thank you and have a nice day
*cop leaves*

VROOOM · 07-21-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

Either way this is the cop's fault. NO WAY do I see a highly educated man becoming belligerent if the cop were to do his job properly. This is how the stop SHOULD have sounded like:

*knock knock*
*professor answers*
cop: hi sir, we're investigating a disturbance at this property
professor: oh yes, I was locked out of my house and had to find another way in.
cop: good enough. Do you have any identification that you're the home owner or renter....something that proves you live here.
professor: well here's my drivers license with my picture on it and I have pictures all around the house with me and my family.
*cop verifies his story*
cop: very good sir, thank you and have a nice day
*cop leaves*

It is the police officers responsibility to keep the situation calm. It takes a real idiot to not take the police serious and it doesn't sound like this professor is an idiot. IMHO, the cop may have been too aggressive too quickly and infuriated a brilliant man and embarrassed him in front of his family in his own home. The man fought back and got picked up. If I were the superior officer I would suspend that officer with pay until the investigation is over and try as hard as I possibly could to make this story go away.

After all, a reasonable man would know that the cop is securing the safety of his own house. A Harvard professor just doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

maybe the professor was pissed off already because he couldnt get in the house and his neighbors called the cops on him. when the cops came, he blew up on them out of frustration. it could happen either way.

Otto347 · 07-21-2009, 05:48 PM

I hate my gums.......cause they black!

lol sorry. Could have been resolved without an arrest.

mrflip69 · 07-21-2009, 06:00 PM

Heh, sorry for the Obama reference. It just seemed appropriate, given the man's color and position of authority. I could've easily said Nelson Mandela, Kobe, Jessie Jackson, whatever.. but his was the first name that came to mind, given he's pretty much at the top in terms of power.

Point was, just when you think you've proved your worth in life, it can be easily taken away in a matter of SECONDS, and you find yourself treated as a 2nd class citizen.

When I hear these stories (oh too often), it feels no matter how much progress we've made, it's "back of the bus for you, Rosa!"

I'll 2nd what's been said about some black officers being just as bad too (just watched Lakeview Terrace--*loosely* based on a true story haha).

**Phlip** · 07-21-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

Either way this is the cop's fault. NO WAY do I see a highly educated man becoming belligerent if the cop were to do his job properly. This is how the stop SHOULD have sounded like:

*knock knock*
*professor answers*
cop: hi sir, we're investigating a disturbance at this property
professor: oh yes, I was locked out of my house and had to find another way in.
cop: good enough. Do you have any identification that you're the home owner or renter....something that proves you live here.
professor: well here's my drivers license with my picture on it and I have pictures all around the house with me and my family.
*cop verifies his story*
cop: very good sir, thank you and have a nice day
*cop leaves*

It is the police officers responsibility to keep the situation calm. It takes a real idiot to not take the police serious and it doesn't sound like this professor is an idiot. IMHO, the cop may have been too aggressive too quickly and infuriated a brilliant man and embarrassed him in front of his family in his own home. The man fought back and got picked up. If I were the superior officer I would suspend that officer with pay until the investigation is over and try as hard as I possibly could to make this story go away.

After all, a reasonable man would know that the cop is securing the safety of his own house. A Harvard professor just doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

Bravo, sir... Looks like you and I are capable of agreeing about half the time these days...
The highlighted actually happened to me once when I was 17... Got home from school and was locked out of the house because my sis was not home and should have been. Climbed in my bedroom window and Mrs. Rankin behind me called the folks, I got in and opened the door and after squeezing out a mud monkey, the dog started barking, meaning someone was at the door. I went to the door, and it went JUST as you described above.

My understanding of the situation is that the cop kept asking him to step outside the house and literally had NO reason to do so, considering that he was the rightful resident of the house. If ANY of you were being beckoned outside without reason, you would get a little pissed as well. When placed in handcuffs after legally entering your own house, then you too would shit a brick.

**ThatGuy** · 07-21-2009, 06:09 PM

Tidbit:

Even if he IS the rightful resident, the officer is within his rights to ask the occupant to leave what may be now considered a CRIME SCENE. Both for his own safety, and for the sake of preserving evidence.

Had the officer or the resident "cleared the house"?

*!Zar!* · 07-21-2009, 06:17 PM

"Ask"

Not force.

No?

**ThatGuy** · 07-21-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence then followed the officer outside, where Gates continued to upbraid him. "It was at that time that I informed Professor Gates that he was under arrest,'' the officer wrote in the report.

Not forced.

No?

Daniel. · 07-21-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Tidbit:

Even if he IS the rightful resident, the officer is within his rights to ask the occupant to leave what may be now considered a CRIME SCENE. Both for his own safety, and for the sake of preserving evidence.

Had the officer or the resident "cleared the house"?

Agreed, although it doesn't seem that the officer was doing anything in this situation to serve and protect the professor's well being.

He would have "asked" him to exit the premises and he should have given him the reason why.

On the surface though we can really only speculate as to what happened there, just like you said above.

ronmcdon · 07-21-2009, 06:51 PM

Think a lot of the speculation here is less about what happened,
and more about presumptions of character (cop = bad, professor = good judgement & smart).

It's interesting to hear ppl think the cop must be somehow abusing his authority,
when there is no evidence to support that.
Infact, there is no reason to believe the cop did anything wrong,
other than the prof accusing him of being a racist.
Likewise, having a doctorate alone doesn't always guarantee flawless excellence in judgment.

Being a professor doesn't make one always right and immune of stupidity,
just as being a cop doesn't automatically make you wrong & racist.

dynamicck · 07-21-2009, 07:02 PM

I think both these guys had too much pride to back down. And the professor should NOT have said "no idea who he was messing with."

I'm pretty damn sure any cop would arrest a person for that kind of remark. Most cops like to arrest people who mouth off...white or black.

tricky_ab · 07-21-2009, 07:28 PM

Gates is being represented by Harvard Law School professor Charles Ogletree, who has taken on previous cases with racial implications. This is the story from Gate's attorney:

Quote:

This is a statement concerning the arrest of Professor Gates. On July 16th, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home at 17 Ware Street in Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled "Faces of America". Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates's luggage into his home.

Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver's license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates's photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates's request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer's name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates's home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer's colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, "Thank you for accommodating my earlier request," and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch.

Professor Gates was taken to the Cambridge Police Station where he remained for approximately 4 hours before being released that evening. Professor Gates's counsel has been cooperating with the Middlesex District Attorneys Office, and the City of Cambridge, and is hopeful that this matter will be resolved promptly. Professor Gates will not be making any other statements concerning this matter at this time.

ghambino · 07-21-2009, 07:44 PM

As been said before, we don't have enough details about the situation. However, we do know that a prominent professor at a prominent university, was arrested arguably because the officer did not believe he belonged there. This is were the racial issues arise. Apparently, other black professors and students at Harvard have had similar incidences with law enforcement at Harvard. What does that say? It says if you're black and on Harvard campus you must prove you actually belong here, but if you're white we'll give you the benefit of doubt. Had he been a white professor, the situation might have gone a little differently. The officer might of given him the benefit of the doubt and left as soon as he was presented with not one, but two IDs. From what we know, the officer did not stop there, he kept investigating.

Frustration and anger played a huge role in this case. This might sound like I'm expecting too much of the officer and not enough from the professor, but hear me out. The officer is a trained public servant. He is trained on how to deal with various personalities in situations like this. He is there to serve the public, not an authority figure to be feared and sucked up to because he or she has the power to screw you over. So the responsibility falls on him to calm the professor instead of trying to find ways to arrest the professor.

"Laws are so vague & cops have so much discretionary power that they can get you for pretty much whatever they want."

Cops can arrest you for the lamest reason and find a way to make it all legal in the rule book. My feeling is the officer was not happy with the way the professor responded to his investigation of the possible robbery. The officer knew he couldn't do anything to the professor, unless he dragged him outside. He used/took advantage of the professor's behavior as cause for arrest by dragging him outside. Had the officer ended his investigation in the house, had he not dragged the professor outside, there would have been no arrest. Hence, no story and we wouldn't be talking about this today.

I know I'm assuming a lot of things, but we really don't have the details yet. But there is no question this is a racial issue.

VROOOM · 07-21-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghambino

As been said before, we don't have enough details about the situation. However, we do know that a prominent professor at a prominent university, was arrested arguably because the officer did not believe he belonged there. This is were the racial issues arise. Apparently, other black professors and students at Harvard have had similar incidences with law enforcement at Harvard. What does that say? It says if you're black and on Harvard campus you must prove you actually belong here, but if you're white we'll give you the benefit of doubt. Had he been a white professor, the situation might have gone a little differently. The officer might of given him the benefit of the doubt and left as soon as he was presented with not one, but two IDs. From what we know, the officer did not stop there, he kept investigating.

Frustration and anger played a huge role in this case. This might sound like I'm expecting too much of the officer and not enough from the professor, but hear me out. The officer is a trained public servant. He is trained on how to deal with various personalities in situations like this. He is there to serve the public, not an authority figure to be feared and sucked up to because he or she has the power to screw you over. So the responsibility falls on him to calm the professor instead of trying to find ways to arrest the professor.

"Laws are so vague & cops have so much discretionary power that they can get you for pretty much whatever they want."

Cops can arrest you for the lamest reason and find a way to make it all legal in the rule book. My feeling is the officer was not happy with the way the professor responded to his investigation of the possible robbery. The officer knew he couldn't do anything to the professor, unless he dragged him outside. He used/took advantage of the professor's behavior as cause for arrest by dragging him outside. Had the officer ended his investigation in the house, had he not dragged the professor outside, there would have been no arrest. Hence, no story and we wouldn't be talking about this today.

I know I'm assuming a lot of things, but we really don't have the details yet. But there is no question this is a racial issue.

it seems, by both stories that the professor was not dragged out. he walked out of the house.

basically i dont believe either story, im sure somewhere in between is the truth. but no one will ever know this. unless it was videotaped.

mrflip69 · 07-21-2009, 07:50 PM

Statement released by his lawyer, though I don't doubt the events truly went down like that; but based on the statement alone, there was absolutely NO reason to arrest the professor.

silviaguy240 · 07-21-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said.

Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence then followed the officer outside, where Gates continued to upbraid him. "It was at that time that I informed Professor Gates that he was under arrest,'' the officer wrote in the report.

Counter has faced a similar situation himself. The well-known neuroscience professor, who is also black, was stopped by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect as he crossed Harvard Yard. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.

That incident was among several that ignited criticism from black students and faculty, highlighting the prejudices that many black students say they continue to face at Harvard.

“He was just shocked that this had happened, at 12:44 in the afternoon, in broad daylight. It brings up the question of whether black males are being targeted by Cambridge police for harassment.”

ok, seems like being an educated man, he could handle this a little better. pulling out the race card to a cop and yelling and arguing with him isnt going to help your case at all. if he would have complied with the police officer and did everything he was asked to this may not have ended up this way. then if it did, the officer would be in the wrong.

although if it happened as gates said it did, then yea its messed up. but seeing the police report should be the truth. then i dont have much sympathy for the guy.

and for the case in 2004 i dont see how people could really be offended. he matched the description of a robber, couldnt produce id and was told he was going to be arrested if he couldnt. i dont see how that is racist at all. if it was a white/asian/latino man they would have done the same thing.

so two cases which the suspects were possible robbers is racial profiling? 911 was called and they went out to deal with it. this isnt just a traffic stop or something, they might be possibly armed robbers so the officers have to take it with some caution.

**ThatGuy** · 07-21-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silviaguy240

the cop said that

No he didn't, Gates did.

Quote:

Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said.

tricky_ab · 07-21-2009, 08:17 PM

I can't help but think the cop is a complete douche for arresting a guy for disorderly conduct after inconveniencing and insulting the man in his own home.

Irrespective of the actual events that transpired, that cop is one dumb fuck for arresting a Havard Professor in those circumstances. Now he'll have to deal with a legal tidal wave, wasting his time, the time of the department and tax payer's money in dealing with a pissed off guy, with the resources to make it very uncomfortable for him.

The cop had the power to make Gates uncomfortable, now Gates has the power to make the cop uncomfortable. Everybody loses.

silviaguy240 · 07-21-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

No he didn't, Gates did.

damnit you got it before my edit, i reread it. first time i read it looked like the cop replied to him saying that.

**ThatGuy** · 07-21-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silviaguy240

damnit you got it before my edit, i reread it. first time i read it looked like the cop replied to him saying that.

Gotcha. I was just clarifying for those who didn't get it, then.

ronmcdon · 07-22-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

Gates is being represented by Harvard Law School professor Charles Ogletree, who has taken on previous cases with racial implications. This is the story from Gate's attorney:

This is a statement concerning the arrest of Professor Gates. On July 16th, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home at 17 Ware Street in Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled "Faces of America". Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates's luggage into his home.

Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver's license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates's photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates's request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer's name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates's home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer's colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, "Thank you for accommodating my earlier request," and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch.

Professor Gates was taken to the Cambridge Police Station where he remained for approximately 4 hours before being released that evening. Professor Gates's counsel has been cooperating with the Middlesex District Attorneys Office, and the City of Cambridge, and is hopeful that this matter will be resolved promptly. Professor Gates will not be making any other statements concerning this matter at this time.

Ok, so the cop did 3 questionable things according to Prof Gates statement.
(pls help me out, if I left out any details)

1) Cop asked Gates for his ID, and verification that Gates worked at Harvard.
I think checking ID is reasonable, given there was an alarm that went off, and it was reasonable that the cop should verify the ppl at the house actually lived there.
I thinking checking Gates' occupation was a bit unecessary.
What does it matter where you work in this situation?
I can see how you might see the cop as ethically suspect here,
but that doesn't mean he did anything legally wrong either.

Also can't see how Profiling might be relevant here.
An alarm went off.
Maybe neighbors were alarmed, and called the police (Neighbors may or may not have been bigots, but that doesn't make the cop one).
Of course cops are going to respond to a potential break-in, and verify the ppl there are in-fact legit

2) Cop never gave out his badge number, despite Gates' request to do so on more than one occasion.
That doesn't look good on the cop.
No reason not give out your badge number.
This is the only incident where I can say the cop was clearly in the wrong.

3) Cop arrested Gates, right after he walks out.
This is the biggest point here.
It all depends on whether or not the yelling, intimidation, and racist presumptions on Gates' behalf ever occurred.
If it did not, then it was most probably an unreasonable detainment (further supported by Gates' release from detainment 4 hrs later).
However, if the unruly behavior did occur, then the cop had every reason to detain him imo.

Note, the Gate's legal reps didn't specify that Gates' unruly behavior did NOT occur.
It was not mentioned at all.
Seems to me, it would be in one's best interest to refute incriminating details if they were false.

I also see ZERO support that Racism was in any way involved.
Unprofessional, uncooperative cop perhaps for refusing to give your badge ID,
and maybe even unlawful detainment at best.
What the cop did, he could have plausibly done to any other person regardless of ethnicity.

Gate might have a good chance with civil settlement (if that was his agenda all along, it was well played)
I doubt there will be criminal convictions against the cop.

07-21-2009, 05:22 PM	#36
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	if only people where as openly minded like that with MJ's accusations. lol __________________ Keep it Classy

07-21-2009, 06:09 PM	#45
ThatGuy Admin Asshole Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Retired Age: 41 Posts: 20,394 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ThatGuy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Tidbit: Even if he IS the rightful resident, the officer is within his rights to ask the occupant to leave what may be now considered a CRIME SCENE. Both for his own safety, and for the sake of preserving evidence. Had the officer or the resident "cleared the house"? __________________ "Speak softly,..." -Pres. Teddy Roosevelt "Be polite, be professional, ..." -Gen. James Mattis

07-21-2009, 06:17 PM	#46
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	"Ask" Not force. No? __________________

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07-21-2009, 05:28 PM	#39
LeonL Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: AL Posts: 163 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Man, I was about to attend Harvard. Now I changed my mind, pick ITT instead.

07-21-2009, 06:00 PM	#43
mrflip69 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 603 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Heh, sorry for the Obama reference. It just seemed appropriate, given the man's color and position of authority. I could've easily said Nelson Mandela, Kobe, Jessie Jackson, whatever.. but his was the first name that came to mind, given he's pretty much at the top in terms of power. Point was, just when you think you've proved your worth in life, it can be easily taken away in a matter of SECONDS, and you find yourself treated as a 2nd class citizen. When I hear these stories (oh too often), it feels no matter how much progress we've made, it's "back of the bus for you, Rosa!" I'll 2nd what's been said about some black officers being just as bad too (just watched Lakeview Terrace--loosely based on a true story haha).

07-21-2009, 06:51 PM	#49
ronmcdon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: beverly hills Age: 86 Posts: 4,254 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Think a lot of the speculation here is less about what happened, and more about presumptions of character (cop = bad, professor = good judgement & smart). It's interesting to hear ppl think the cop must be somehow abusing his authority, when there is no evidence to support that. Infact, there is no reason to believe the cop did anything wrong, other than the prof accusing him of being a racist. Likewise, having a doctorate alone doesn't always guarantee flawless excellence in judgment. Being a professor doesn't make one always right and immune of stupidity, just as being a cop doesn't automatically make you wrong & racist.

07-21-2009, 07:02 PM	#50
dynamicck Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: HB Posts: 406 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I think both these guys had too much pride to back down. And the professor should NOT have said "no idea who he was messing with." I'm pretty damn sure any cop would arrest a person for that kind of remark. Most cops like to arrest people who mouth off...white or black.

07-21-2009, 07:44 PM	#52
ghambino Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 465 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	As been said before, we don't have enough details about the situation. However, we do know that a prominent professor at a prominent university, was arrested arguably because the officer did not believe he belonged there. This is were the racial issues arise. Apparently, other black professors and students at Harvard have had similar incidences with law enforcement at Harvard. What does that say? It says if you're black and on Harvard campus you must prove you actually belong here, but if you're white we'll give you the benefit of doubt. Had he been a white professor, the situation might have gone a little differently. The officer might of given him the benefit of the doubt and left as soon as he was presented with not one, but two IDs. From what we know, the officer did not stop there, he kept investigating. Frustration and anger played a huge role in this case. This might sound like I'm expecting too much of the officer and not enough from the professor, but hear me out. The officer is a trained public servant. He is trained on how to deal with various personalities in situations like this. He is there to serve the public, not an authority figure to be feared and sucked up to because he or she has the power to screw you over. So the responsibility falls on him to calm the professor instead of trying to find ways to arrest the professor. "Laws are so vague & cops have so much discretionary power that they can get you for pretty much whatever they want." Cops can arrest you for the lamest reason and find a way to make it all legal in the rule book. My feeling is the officer was not happy with the way the professor responded to his investigation of the possible robbery. The officer knew he couldn't do anything to the professor, unless he dragged him outside. He used/took advantage of the professor's behavior as cause for arrest by dragging him outside. Had the officer ended his investigation in the house, had he not dragged the professor outside, there would have been no arrest. Hence, no story and we wouldn't be talking about this today. I know I'm assuming a lot of things, but we really don't have the details yet. But there is no question this is a racial issue.

07-21-2009, 07:50 PM	#54
mrflip69 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 603 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Statement released by his lawyer, though I don't doubt the events truly went down like that; but based on the statement alone, there was absolutely NO reason to arrest the professor.

07-21-2009, 08:17 PM	#57
tricky_ab Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: It's dark, and hell is hot! Posts: 9,413 Trader Rating: (23) Feedback Score: 23 reviews	I can't help but think the cop is a complete douche for arresting a guy for disorderly conduct after inconveniencing and insulting the man in his own home. Irrespective of the actual events that transpired, that cop is one dumb fuck for arresting a Havard Professor in those circumstances. Now he'll have to deal with a legal tidal wave, wasting his time, the time of the department and tax payer's money in dealing with a pissed off guy, with the resources to make it very uncomfortable for him. The cop had the power to make Gates uncomfortable, now Gates has the power to make the cop uncomfortable. Everybody loses.