DSC

OK, I've talked to a few of you individually and I seem to change my mind every day. But the end result stays the same, which is somewhat comforting...racing cars.

So, a little background, you can skip this paragraph if you like...
I've watched speed vision touring car races since I was like 12 or 13...always wanted to do it, but figured it was something impossible and just shruged it off...kept doing whatever I was into at the time. Ok, so fast forward to 16-17 years old, get a car and start reading everything I can find. Realize racing is a posiblity, get excited...OK, so I want to race cars again. Then I finally get on track and it is everything I ever hoped it would be, and then some...now hopelessly addicted I want w2w action. Track days are just masterbation(tho fun and a nessisary step that can't really be skipped)...I want the real thing. Now...how to get there!

So, I'm trying to figure out how the hell to get w2w w/out waiting any longer than I have to...afterall, i've waited a long freakin time already.

My ideas: Selling my car is going to happen regardless...it's a part of every idea I have. So, that doesn't change no matter what.
1) buy s13 coupe, daily drive and build for ITA. Then later buy tow thing while finishing race car.
2) buy tow thing now as daily driver and buy prebuilt ITA car. This will save me a lot of time and money (in the thousands) but not be quite as fun...
3) give up now, and just race karts...i'm sure this would not satify me for long though.
4) ?????? help me. I really love 240's and want to race one, tho I'm not totally closed minded here...944 cup and spec e30 have crossed my mind, till I realized that I'm not rich. echc is also something, but 240 is what i really want.


BTW, for those who have met me in person. Yes I realize my lack of experiance no need to point that out here. I'm cursed with having to have everythign planned out...that and a horrible addiction to that go fast crack. w2w is something I want more than anything and REALLY am doing everything I can to get there by 2004, early or late.

For those who race, or plan to race, or just think I'm a freaking lunitick give me some suggestions.
Seriously, this is something that is going to happen...I just have no idea how.

Edit: just FYI, I really don't care what I drive to and fro every day...Though gas and insurance are concerns, gas isn't a huge one. I drive my s14 pretty damn slow on the streets anyway and I don't care about having a cool car or whatever, just somethign that works....goal is racing, not picking up chicks at the strip with a sweet car thats why it's posted here...not chat.

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DSC

Ok, little more sober now...lets try a list.

1) sell s14, buy s13, daily drive s13 while building for ITA, right before that last step making the s13 not streetable, buy a tow vehicle to become the daily driver, finish the s13, get trailer, start racing.
Will be hard to build the car since it could never be down for more than a weekend since it's daily driven. Tho will give me a fun car to drive around town and the fun of building the car myself. Tho much more expansive than buying prebuilt.

2) sell s14, buy tow vehicle now as daily driver, save up for an s13, build the s13 for ITA, get trailer, start racing.
Daily driven tow vehicle won't be good on gas, but would allow me to work on the s13 without worrying about having it up and running for work on monday.

3) same as 2 but buy prebuilt ITA s13.
Lower cost over all but more money all at once. Not quite as fun as building my own, tho a few thousand dollars cheaper may be worth it.

4) sell s14, but old sentra or civic as a beater, buy s13, build for ITA, then buy tow vehicle and trailer.
This would give me 3 vehicles to insure and maintain but would save money on gas driving to work every day.

5) same as 4 but buy prebuilt ITA s13.
Same + and - of buying verses building as in #3. Would save money on gas like #4 but would have the highest all at once costs, having to buy a trailer, tow vehicle, and s13 pretty much at the same time to be able to get racing.

6) any other ideas you can come up with to acheive the same thing as the above.

There.
I know only a couple other people here are looking to race w2w and of course 1 who already does...but I figure I'd post and try to get some suggestions from everybody.
Right now I'm leaning towards #3.

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Jeff240sx

Heh. MS? What the hell am I doing here?

Anyway. If you're leaning towards 3, that's cool. But you'll need to realize that buying a prebuilt car is a huge up-front cost, and if you're like most people, it'll take a while to accrue the money for it. If you built the car yourself, you could put off the "tow thinggy" and build your car piece by piece as money allows, and retain the "project car" as a daily driver until you get to the point of no return, where it will be a full-blown race car.
$.02
-Jeff

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Whatup?

DuffMan

This may be a stupid question, but what makes the IT car completely unstreetable? I know of serveral NASA guys that drive their w to w race car on the street. Not saying it's something you want to do all the time, but at least until you can get everything worked out.

Also why not buy the prebuilt race car, buy a daily driver and then sell trade or trade in the daily driver for a tow vehicle. That way you wouldnt have to have 3 cars.

HippoSleek

A couple of observations:

Building a car for IT take money. Lots of it. Expect to drop upwards of $10,000 for a basic ITA car (shell, weld-in cage, safety gear, suspension/wheels/tires, LSD, basic motor). This car will in no way be competitive -- but nor will you as a driver initially. For that, you will need a new final drive and plenty of motor work. And this doesn't even account for the hours of labor. Bob Strech's car is estimated $35K :0

Buying a pre-buit car is always cheaper. ALWAYS! Many come with spares and other stuff that will make life easier too. Of course, you can't drive more IT cars to the track (nor would you want to) b/c of safety, noise, space for gear/stuff. A sorted car will also out perform your home-made effort, b/c they've already figured out the suspension, alignment, and engine settings to optimize performance.

Why a 240? In ITA trim, a 240 can dominate... for a price. Those that are winning have at least $15-20K minimum invested (as do winning CRXs). Parts for the 240 are expensive and they are hardly a class killer.

The tow rig. My advice -- don't buy one for a while. If you are talking about towing to 5 events/year, it is usually cheaper to rent a truck and trailer from UHaul for a weekend. Sure, that is $200/ rental or so, but it is way cheaper in the long run and it doesn't come with a big up-front cost. Buying a junky tow vehicle just means more time working on it and potentially being broken down. Most who start off w/ a POS puller wind up making payments on a real truck before long.

Other options:

As you know, SpecMiata has a huge following. You can build a car for under $10K and run in the pack. It is RWD, and about as quick as an ITA 240. The cars are just as reliable as any 240, and there are several people who drive to the events b/c the level of prep isn't as great as IT (w/ a little tire trailer for the 2d set of wheels).

Spec-Rx7. It is racing. It is almost as fast as ITA (in some cases, faster, according to laptimes). Cars and parts are cheap. And you can buy a turn key, competitive car for under $5,000 (many are b/n $3-4K). They aren't as unreliable as you'd think (you remember Al/Crack Monkey has one). If you want to race a RWD car at bargin prices, this is the way to go.

If money were my biggest issue, I'd race ECHC/ITA w/ a CRX. If I really wanted RWD, but had little money, I'd race SRx7. If I had a bit more money and wanted RWD, I'd go SM. If I had still more money (and more knowledge to develop a car), I'd go ITS w/ a 2d Gen Rx7. More money still, 325 in ITS (that's rap star money though! ).

If I were in your shoes, I'd think long and hard about a CRX. You can get a turn-key car for about $4,000. They're reliable and cheap to maintain and you can pull them with about anything. I know FWD doesn't appeal once you've had a taste, but dollars to enjoyment, I think an ITA/H4 CRX is the hands down winner.

I know its tough to detach yourself from the 240, but understand that it will take a lot to get one out there. There will be a trade between racing and money. If you want to get out there, the closest trade will come for an SRx7 or a CRX.

Duff -- while many drive their race cars, there are a lot of reasons not to. Space for wheels and tires. horrible rides. unsafe cabins (unless you are in a helmet and illegal harnesses). excess wear and tear. the inability to prep the car to competitive levels b/c of sound and suspension trade-offs. inablity to drive the car at 10/10ths b/c you know you have to drive it home. And most important, break downs -- A lot of race cars sustain mechanical or physical damage at the track. One LONG tow home can near the price of a trailer.

Dave -- shoot me an email if you want to chat some time -- its my username at hotmail.

DSC

"If you built the car yourself, you could put off the "tow thinggy" and build your car piece by piece as money allows, and retain the "project car" as a daily driver until you get to the point of no return, where it will be a full-blown race car."

This is actually a really good idea. If I decided I was willing to spend the extra several thousand to have the fun of building the car, and I was stuborn and insisted on doing ita s13...this would be a great way to do it.

Hippo, I may have read too much into Al's posts on H-T but he doesn't seem to be too happy with his srx7. Tho when I talked to him in person a while back he was saying how great it is for the $$. I was seriously considering this though, but rotary scares me even tho they say the 12a is solid as a rock, so long as you don't run too lean.

I never thought about the rental tow thing, thats a GREAT idea. This would allow me only 2 cars (only 1 insured possibly) w/out having to drive my w2w car to the track.

ECHC, hell, I almost want to race with them just because of the overwhelming support and all the members are so damn cool And fwd IS fun in its own way, tho I of course still perfer rwd.
An option has always been racing a crx. I could always get something faster a couple years down the road after I mature as a driver a bit more. Granted this is prolly the smartest thing to do, I'm not sure I'm all that smart I'd really like my rwd s13 now.
Then again, it would suck to run out of money and be stuck with a fun but uncompetetive race car

SM is always an option, tho for some reason has never gotten me really excited. I should prolly look into this more.

"I know its tough to detach yourself from the 240"
it would be, I wonder if I'm willing to spend a lot more money on raceing to not have to detach myself from them...

If I build ita s13 it'll cost about 10k like you said, and it'll suck. Good thing about that is it's easier to spend a lot of money if one can do so over time. Also, I'd be able to do the ocational nasa track day with a 1/2 prepared car, i'd hate to have to wait till next season to get on track again.
Most used ita s13's go for 8k or so (one in GRM for about 7k, but w/out motor, so figure 8k with slow motor)

Hrm, I guess the real question is how much money I'm willing to spend.
If I could get a used h4 car for 4k and drive it to the track(or rent a tow thing if I decide thats the way to go, +$200 per event, would allow my suspension much more track time, and no changing **** out when I get there), while having a 2nd car as a daily driver, I could focus a lot more on actually going to the track every month, and would be able to start MUCH sooner.
Srx7 would be about the same deal as an h4 crx I think, tho I'd be forced to tow it.

Or

I can build an SM for about 10k, drive it to the track or rent just like the h4 car. More money into that car prolly wouln't get ME any closer to the front for a while...

Or

Build/buy ita s13, forced to tow it. This would prolly take as long to do as an SM but I'd have the car I really want. At that stage, may not be as competetive as an SM though.

ugg

Thx for the input, always welcome more.
I'm glad I posted...I can never seen the whole picture by myself.

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HippoSleek

Again, I feel your pain... If I had any sense, I would drop the SM idea and go for an ITA CRX or an SRx7.

1. Al and SRx7: Everytime I talk to Al, he tries to con me into SRx7. His car is slow for HPDE, but mid-pack in SRx7, so while it is no fun getting passed a lot in the instructor group, it is a blast for racing. Add to that that its cheap and you've got a winner. Sadly, I just don't like 1st Gen Rx7's -- which is why Al makes fun of me for shopping for a yuppie race car (guilty). The only problem I see w/ SRx7 -- if you don't mind the car -- is that the classes are strong now, but shrinking as more of those guys go to SM. It also means, however, that built cars are cheap -- I know people who've bought turn-keys for $3500

2. I suffer from RWD envy also. The smartest thing I could do is buy a CRX. They are cheap, easy to set up (and there are a lot who will help), competitive in their class, and you can run in ITA or HC. I owned a Civic -- I like RWD that much better. It took me a while to get over the 240, but after I drove a Meeoter, I *got* it. They are more fun -- period -- even if they are girly.

3. As far as running in the front -- you won't. Not for a while anyway. For the money, SM will get you the most competitive car. A shabby ITA 240 will be killed -- I'd wager it takes about $15-20K to develop one to run near the front. A bit less for a CRX. There aren't many SM's w/ over $20K in them -- most are about $10 or less. The basic package takes about $9K, after that, the only real benefit is a pro-built motor (that will usually only get you a few more hp). In short, you can reach a podium for $10K. The only other place you might do that is HC when none of the good ITA running H4 guys show.

apexL8

i think we all can agree that if you insist on building your own race car.......SM is the way to go (SRX7 maybe). but like the others, i don't like the 1st gen rexer either......i don't like the way it sounds, i don't like the way it looks, call me stuck up, but i just don't like it.

keep in mind the huge support mazda is giving towards SM, and the huge fields, there's always somebody to race with. open cockpit racing is the way to go (no hardtop required in MC )

in case you haven't figured it out......the start of my SM project is about a month away

HippoSleek

It appears Mr. Axex lives in the Mountain Region -- all other regions require that damb $800-1200 hard top. In either case, b/c of the significant effect on drag and straightaway speed, I'd get the hard top.

bbp

DSC,

Got your message, sorry for the delay!

Cost to go IT racing: It took me 2 years to get the program on track. A typical weekend can be very expensive, but there are ways to cut costs, like camping etc...

The real question is how competitive do you want to be? Someone mentione Bob Stretch's car being 35k, that is what it takes to run up front in IT. Do you have to be upfront to have alot of fun... no. But understand that fact before you get discouraged.

Here are some numbers from a typical weekend last year:
Tires: 600-800, will last 2-3 events
Gas: 50
Entry:250-300
Food: 50-100

It is the equipment that leads up to getting TO the track, like personal safety equipment, tow vehicle, trailer, tools, spare parts, coolers, food & drink, fuels jugs, race car tie downs, plastic bins, ez up tents, getting tire mounted and dismounted, lawn chairs. Not all of this stuff is absolutly necessary, but as you do more, you will find being comfortable becomes very important. It is the little stuff that really eats up your extra cash, fast!

As for the actual car itself... come to reality, anything that becomes an IT car really needs to be towed. Too many what if's drivng it to and fro. What if... i blow a motor... get hit... brake a suspension piece... get in a wreck on the street and kill myself on the roll cage without my helmet on... i get caught in a rainstorm on treadless track tires heading home... I have seen people drive their car to the track and have always thought, Man thats a tough way to go. Plus, do you really want to be driving a stiff, uncomfortable car to work everyday? (Also consider many IT do not have drivers side window due to the door bars)

Back in 94 I built an ITA CRX, drove it on the street, got my license, ran out of money, license expired, got discouraged and hung it up for a few years. I learned it is a building process, you really need to develop a program, with a budget and timeline. It seems you have definately put some thought into it, but make sure you are looking at the big picture. It's much more fun when you are prepared (IMO).


Here are my thought on your choices. I pick 3) same as 2 but buy prebuilt ITA s13. Lower cost over all but more money all at once. Not quite as fun as building your own, tho a few thousand dollars cheaper may be worth it. While it is fun building a car, it is expensive and time consuming. Another thought, instead of building an S13, I know of a very nice S14 ITS car with a trailer, lots of spares, tires and wheels that is ready to go racing ;-)

Alot of this stuff is much easier to convey in a real conversation, if you want to chat PM me and I send you my phone number.

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240 2NR

It also helps if you befriend a fellow racer. I spent last season with a group of veteran racers. I didn't race much, but attended several races with them. They've got a shop, bring tons of tools, a grill, camping gear, years of racing knowledge, lots of contacts, etc. Bascially all the things I'll have after 10 years of track weekends.

Not sure of your backgorund, I know you've done a lot of autocross weekends and track days, but have you attended a W2W race? The track I run at often has autocross and w2w races in the same weekends so if I race on saturday I get to watch my friends race on sunday.

Basically get a feel for what it's really like to W2W if you haven't already. The other option before you jump in with both feet is to rent seat time. A car can run with two drivers (in different races obviously) and since my friend's 510 was showing up for him to race, it's easy for one of his friend's to "rent" time in the same car for a later race (plus it helps defray some of my friend's costs). The car comes to the track already prepared to race and all he has to do is arrive and drive. That's how it went last season and after huge improvement all seson he's now preparing his own 510. Had he hated his first race (unlikey in his case) he would have been out $500 instead of trying to unload a car, all the spares, a trailer and whatever else he would have needed for his first race weekend.

I'm pretty sure there are a few arrive and drive SM outfits you could use.

Also beaware that W2W racing means dealing with other people's mistakes. In an autocross I only have myslef to blame if I spin off, in W2W you have to deal with other driver's etc. Going an entire season without contact is a pretty hard thing to avoid, so make sure you have the funds to keep racing after a minor incident. Parts cars are wonderful things.

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Steve
93 240sx FB currently very clean and for sale

sykikchimp

I know NASA wants people to go through the whole Novice-Intermediate-Advanced HPDE's before going W2W.. What is the most common route for SCCA?

Or for NASA for that matter? I know thats what they want you to do, but you don't necessarily have to wait till your advanced to do a Comp school right?

I'm sort of in the same boat as you Dave...

What I'm doing.

over the next 2-3 years...

Building my street toy car. Mainly its just a project to learn on, have some fun with, but daily drive, and do HPDE's with. I wanna open my own shop one of these days, and having a car to tinker with is a great place to practice breaking stuff.. lol

Once I get settled with where I live, and My job, and what not, I am seriously thinking about buying an ITC or ITB car, or running like an H4 or H5 car in ECHC.. I don't plan on being competitive. I just wanna race. I really would love to run an ITA or ITS 240. Whatever I do, I plan to buy one prebuilt. I wanna be a driver. Not a mechanic. I'll turn wrenches if I have too.. but am in it for the driving. Turn-key is the way to go to get into it.

You can build up a lot of the "Comfort" stuff that bbp was talking about, going to HPDE's.. like the chairs, and coolers, and ez-up tents, etc.. I've already got a fairly large pile o-crap .


I know a REALLY good thing to do, is just go to the races.. even if your not participating. Meet the people, see if you can volunteer as a Corner Worker, etc. Meets some of the racers, and maybe even see if you can help crew for them. Awesome way to gain experience, and meet contacts that will GREATLY smooth your transition into racing.

I hope to see you at some of the events this year Dave.. I'll be at Summit in June with NASA..

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DSC

Here's some info I got from Alister(sp?)/crack monkey about spec7

"Field sizes took a hit when Spec Miata came around. This year will probably show if SRX-7 has staying power or not - I think most of the SRX-7 drivers who are leaving for SM have done so. As far as I know, they are still slated for their own run group this year (which would mean 30+ car fields).

It's still the cheapest game in town, so will always draw some new drivers and even some old ones looking for something different (Richard Spicer, multi-time RunOff winner, races DC SRX-7 in addition to his National schedule).

You can buy a top-10 quality car for less than $5000 - not many other classes that can say that (maybe ITC). Or, find a mid-pack car that is still streetable (has a muffler and cat) for under $2500.

As for the motor - it is very reliable. Three seasons or more is the norm (whereas piston motors need at minimum a valve job every 1.5 seasons). And they are cheap - $500 from a junkyard or $2000 for a rebuild. The reason people in general are scared of the rotary is the emmissions system - lots of vacuum lines. But, it's cheap to have Bret and RP Performance look at it - I just had my street project at his shop - he had to tear down my carb, rebuild it using a fresh carb housing, and a bunch of other little things (tranny and diff fluid, replace distributor, replace shutter valve, replace clutch MC and Slave) for $300.

The cars make just over 100rwhp in Spec RX-7 trim. Not blazng fast, but still fun. The cars handle well - easy to drive at 90%, but takes lots of practice to get that extra 10%. Because of the spec rules, there are some flaws in the suspension (not enough travel when lowered, too soft, etc), but everybody has the same issues - some people just can't stand to drive it that way (and would rather go to ITA where they can set it up as they please).

Anyways, the cars are dirt cheap to buy, dirt cheap to fix and maintain, and fun to drive. There is a lot of speed in such a simple car with so few tweaks."
Sounds hard to beat...

I guess SM would be basically the same thing, just faster and more $$.

"Not sure of your backgorund, I know you've done a lot of autocross weekends and track days, but have you attended a W2W race?"
I read and talk a lot more than I drive I've watched a few w2w races in person. Stayed with Al (above spec7 racer) for a couple days in a hotel at a track weekend and talked to a few others at much less length.

"I know of a very nice S14 ITS car with a trailer, lots of spares, tires and wheels that is ready to go racing"
Hehe, would be a fun package to rent you have PM

Heh, IT is beginning to scare me a bit with all the money involved. Though it seems the only difference between all the different classes I'm looking at is the startup cost. Per even cost shouldn't be more than $100 or so different between classes right?

Hrm...to be continued for sure

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apexL8

bah.....when the main track it runs at hardly breaks triple digits, it's not that big of an issue, especially when you don't expect to be competitive anyway. and the fact that the cars only purpose this year will be to use it for a school to obtain a novice liscense in time to run the 10hr enduro in a friends car.

bbp

True.. the slower classes tend not to consume consumables as quickly as the the faster/heavier classes. Tires and brakes are the main issue here, fuel costs are higher as well.

SRX7: Great value, cars are cheap, boneyard motors are plentiful and usually still make good power.

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DSC

Well, after talking to various different people and a lot of hours reading different websites (offical and "fan") on different classes and a good bit of talking with myself and drinking...I'm as of this very minute leaning toward SM.
I'm going to go ahead and say my plan, and let whoever pick it appart if they care to or say its a good plan, whichever.

Spec Miata
Sell s14
buy xx-93 1.6L miata
daily drive said miata
put a BAR in miata
do HPDE's with nasa untill both I and they feel I no longer suck
While doing HPDE's be modding the car and building for SM (OR pro7 depending on whether I decide i want to go with nasa or scca)
finally add the rest of the cage, no longer street safe (right? or is a well padded cage safe w/out helmet on street??)
At this point I get to figure out what to do as far as towing and what to daily drive etc...should be 2004 by this step. Another year of talking to people and driving should give me a more clear idea of where I want to go with this.

Why I favor this plan over others:
It allows me time to change my mind a hundred times while still having fun and learning with a car that has a future as a race car (very important to me opposed to having fun with a car that has no future...aka s14).
Buying a prebuilt car would mean I have to figure out all the details and things of towing that I just don't think I can do yet.
Basically...I think I was getting ahead of myself in the other plans.
I've never been a mechanic, i really suck at it actually...so a Spec class is probably the best way to go. If i lose I want it to be because I can't drive as well as someone else, not cauz of money or mechanical ability...tho I realize money and mech ability will be a factory in any racing, just much less in spec racing opposted to IT, HC or other more open classes.
If I run out of money for whatever reason, I have a fun street legal car that I can do the ocational track day in...hopefully it won't come to that.

So, what do you think?

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DSC

Bla, can't edit the post
I didn't mean to say pro7...total typing blunder/brain fart
SM either with nasa or scca is undecided is all I was saying.

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bbp

Sounds like a great plan to me. the part about is a good idea, although it should read "until I can afford to go racing" 'cause you can suck at driving but still be allowed to race. You just have to be safe, not fast.



kinda, not really. I wouldn't want to drive it all the time, but thats just me.

I think you are on the right track! Have fun with it! Let me know if I can do anything to help you get going!!

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240 2NR

Latest issue of GRM has an ITA (iirc) 1990 240sx. Comes with 3 sets of wheels and tires, many spares, caged, Sparco Evo 2 seat, for ~$7k

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Steve
93 240sx FB currently very clean and for sale

DSC

yeah wish I could buy it.
The car is w/out motor.

My goal in this thread was to get an idea of where I wanted to be in a year, so I could decide what to do right now.
Right now, I'm selling my car and buying something in it's place and thats it....whether it was going to be an s13, miata, or a truck is what I was trying to decide (and think I have decided).

So, basically if I bought a prebuilt car now(with the $ I get from selling my car), I wouldn't have anything to drive to work

Thanks for lookin out tho

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MovinUp-1

You mentioned kart racing in your first post but you said you didn't think it would fulfill you. Why? Is it going 100 mph with your butt 1 inch off the ground or is it the fact that it is the cheapest way to feel almost the same lateral forces as a formula one driver? seriously, give it some thought. You wouldn't need a big tow vehicle, a little nissan pickup would be perfect. the karts can be gotten fairly cheap for a used one. tires and gas are dirt cheap compared to a car.

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Allen
Delta Region SCCA
SM 1990 240SX SR20DET

Drifting Ricer

What about open wheel racing? At 1st I though about IT cars. But the more I think about it the more I would race open wheel cars. Can't you buy open wheel race cars for 15k? I dunno the costs but I'm sure they would be has much IT car.

Here is my plan (simple but effective)
I decided to keep my 240sx and camping in it Street Mod.
I plan to build my car around that class.
My goal with the SX is take it to the nationals.
Of course I will be doing track days too.

Eventually I'll buy a race car. I never liked messing around with cars much. I just love driving them. But the idea of a open wheel racer is very attractive. They’re much faster and handle better then any IT car. (I don't have much to prove on that) Plus you can buy them turnkey ready.


But that's just my 2 cents. Unless BBP knows some of the cost of open wheel cars and a good class to go into that.

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NER Solo 2
18 SM

AceInHole

another option would be to start up a Formula SAE car club at your school if it doesn't have one and build it yourself without paying a dime!! Only good for 4 years or as many as you stay in school.... but it's worth a shot and it'll get your "foot in the door" so to speak.

Pretty sure you can build a formula car for a few grand as long as you already have all the tools and skills.

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