e1_griego

Looking through the kit I don't see a provision for power steering -- presumably like the K miata swaps you have to go EPS?

RalliartRsX

The PS and all the accessories run on a single belt so it's all on the same side.

ixfxi

imo, k-engine fitment is pretty terrible on an s-chassis

funny how in the mid to late 90s, everyone was all about vtak...

then 2000 everyone jumped ship to rwd

we've gone full circle, vtac and rwd combined. yuck.

PoorMans180SX

Yeah, not sure how that's all going to work. I believe things need to get moved around to make room for the oil pan, so I don't know if they've worked out a way to keep the hydraulic PS. The TF-works S14 definitely runs EPS, which is really freakin' cool, but definitely an added cost/labor.

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e1_griego

That's what I figured, and that's the K-Miata answer, too.

gbaby2089

Only the Type R is a K-series, the K20C1. Well, and the base model NA Civics are K.

Other Civics are L-series IIRC.

RIP affordable K-series for Honda people.

PoorMans180SX

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RalliartRsX

You know, doing the math and with the swaps I have done in the past, a non native engine swap for 8-12K to get a reliable 450WHP is not terrible all said and done. You can shave off a few and get it all done for 10K but it's not terrible.

I do not want to look into what my VET/JK41 into my Z32 cost lol!

BryanSayWhat

If Honda made the Prelude RWD I'd be down with that. I'm, also a little too big for an S2K (6'3"), or I'd probably own one.

I've been undecided in my swap choice for almost 8yrs... I originally wanted to go SR (DET), but held off after hearing, so many horror stories of them not lasting. A lot of those stories could of been "Operator Error", or lack of appropriate maintenance (during and after the swap), but It's still unsettling knowing you can spend 6-7k on a SR Swap and the thing not last/ be reliable. Even if you are successful for that price, your going to be making what about 260-280whp safely?

Even if the K series turbo swap cost about 10K-ish It's still a pretty reasonable price for 4XXwhp on a motor that can be replaced readily without diving into the internals. (RalliartRsX beat me to it)

I will admit that the SR is still an attractive option for me, because of the fitment and A/C, though. lol

TheRealSy90

I think for a street car that can easily retain heat/ac, the SR still remains the go-to. Although for a drift/race car build I can see the draw to the K series swap.

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deolio

if you're looking at the price of the swap solely in monetary value, you're only looking at half of the picture.

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slider2828

I think stewart leask is designing and tigging for them on this?

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ixfxi

the only SRs that dont last are the ones built by idiots

no offense because I like speed academy, but peter using the abrasive disc on the top of the block to remove left over head gasket was completely idiotic. they often get themselves into "user error" problems by doing stupid, amateur, penny pinching maneuvers. this is why you're best leaving things to professionals

i have NEVER had a failure with my SR. its one of the best engines ever. anyone saying different doesnt know what the fuck hes talking about.

BryanSayWhat

^^ For sure. That's why I over the years I've pretty much come to the conclusion that a nice stock-ish SR20DET swap is going to cost me about 6-7K vs. the 4-5K (and even less) others do. (I'd still have less in my car vs. a comparable JDM import)

Ideally, I'd want to find a good complete swap and replace everything that's not under the valve cover, with as many brand new OEM parts, or quality JDM upgraded items possible... Still taking a gamble with a used old engine.

It's also hard deciding to go with a newer S15/ S14 DET (possible VTC problems?), or going Red/ Black top (engine is going into an S13). Stock Spec-R power would be nice and almost seems like the logical choice these days?

Or, at this point do you just count on getting any SR20DET completely rebuilt? Which then (imo) makes a decent case for going turbo K-series... lol

Def

Brah... no way in the world an EFR 7163 VET with decent cams is going to only make 400 rwhp, unless you want to run it at 14-15 psi. The EFR 7163 will stomp all over a 2871R DET everywhere, which is what you're saying, but there is also a pretty large power difference. I'd guesstimate at about 30-60 rwhp up top easy, depending on the size of the turbo and its ability to keep up with the VET head.


As for a K swap in an S-chassis... I love me some S-chassis goodness, but I'm totally getting an S2000 if I want some RWD VTEC fun for these sorts of prices.


Plus K20/K24s are showing themselves to have oiling issues in a longitudinal setup. They act like they want a deep as hell oil pan, and then the engine just doesn't fit in many cars. Sure, these tiny oil pans to fit them in a RWD setup are fine for a street/drag setup, but start pulling some Gs and your engine is toast.

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Def

Agreed on the Speed Academy guys. I love their channel, but sometimes I really struggle with some stupid shit they do. Like, they've been modding cars long enough to know some of these basics that end up biting them in the ass when they go past basic bolt-ons (which is sadly where they have been tending to stay lately).


My SRs put up with hell. I had a few failures on them overtime, but I'm honestly shocked they were as reliable as they were. They can generally take one hell of a beating on the street, and as long as you don't go stupid on the power/heat at the track, they also take it like a champ.

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ixfxi

and at that point, it would make sense to spend bigger bucks fitting a dry sump conversion - if and whoever makes that. I dont know because I dont care, but im sure it exists.


Its a generational thing. Next gen of enthusiasts are looking for something new or to be different, but often lose sight of what is designed to work in a chassis.

We're damn near being in 2020. If you're going to install an SR in your car, take it to the machine shop and have it cleaned up and refreshed. Simple as that. Dont fuck with 30 year old cars unless you have the money to burn in restoration.

RalliartRsX

Def you stated what I wanted to much more eloquently

In terms of the oiling issues I know there has been a pan with the proper baffles developed for this specific situation and a few folks run them (oil travelling up the timing cover). Andy Hollis in the k swap miata with 285 purple crack on "stock" fenders had a much more extreme scenario at COTA......and we all know how COTA eats bearings due to long sweepers. I'll have to check back with his build thread but I recall him resolving this very issue a year or so ago with a properly baffled pan.

Either way, there is a solution. I've also never had an issue with any of my SR on track apart from things that were self inflicted. A majority of the failures are from drifters and them rapping the limiter and then doing dumb shit like installing stoppers and then blaming the engine. THAT is where a majority of the failures exist.....the rest are from folks who decide that torque and clearance specs and the fsm are not to be followed

TheRealSy90

The Touge Factory oil pan is like an 8 quart capacity.

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RalliartRsX

^^ capacity not the only issue. Proper baffling is also a key issue which needs to be addressed.

PoorMans180SX

Not sure about the design work, but they have a guy in-house that welds the pans and valvecovers, he does great work. Instagram is @skinny__d

This makes a lot of sense to me.

You make a good point about picking up an S2000, it definitely becomes an alternative option if you're looking at turbo K-swap prices.

Yeah if the pan maintains oil pressure on a car with 315's all the way around and some decent aero, I think it'll do well on most people's.

Dailey Engineering makes dry sump setups for the K.

While I agree with your "do it right or not at all" mentality, There's no doubt the K series is superior to the SR in quite a few ways. I do think the SR20 is more aesthetic and depending on what they're doing with the car and their level of mechanical skill and knowledge it makes sense for some people. I know lots of old guys that will claim the SBC is the best engine ever because they've never blown one up, but we all know that SBC's are boat anchors.

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inferno s14

if your directed sport is Zig Zagging around a racetrack on a super lightweight RWD Silvia, the k motor is Beast.
If you wanna be different and put this on a full weight S14 and hit the freeway - goodbye see you later - you will get smoked.
Even with a 4.8 final on a closed ratio gearbox @ 9500 rpm on 4th gear doing 110 is not fun.
cool but nahhh.

why i went 2j For the bread.

RalliartRsX

A VET is not far off from a K series in terms of power density and overall drivability, etc. Yes, a tad more upfront cost, but overall both packages will deliver in the sub 450WHP reliably all day as long as you keep both cool. However, we are comparing an engine that has had 15 years to improve on the design of the B-series......The last VE rolled off the production floor some 10+ years ago.

P.S There is no point in even discussing the DET in the same breath. IMHO at this price point, this should be strictly a VET to K series comparison.

PoorMans180SX

True True. It does however, get shit on in the displacement category. You can put cams in a bone stock K24 and make 270whp and 200+ lb/ft of torque. I'd say the K24 has a bit more potential than the VE.

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e30gangsta

Ported k series heads flow some serious cfm. More than vet heads I would assume.

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RalliartRsX

NO replacement right

I am with ya on that. I think they have K24s revving reliably all day with a set of cams to 8500. I approve

ixfxi

yeah but if you're talking dry sump, you're already above the budget of most broke bastards doing this swap. look at speed academy and how they used a k series motor that they picked up for what, 500 bucks?

maybe im just getting too old for this shit, but too often people get stuck on the technical aspects of how XXXX modern engine is sooo much powerful/faster/etc... they jump through all these hoops to make it fit and work properly. but in the end, its either poorly executed or not fully functional or just not fully refined.

me personally, i'm all about things being period correct and working 100% as intended back when the car was relatively new. i dont mind having less power, as long as all the car looks like whats in my 180sx / silvia catalogs, im happy. i get my parts from nissan, not chevy, honda or toyota. but i get it, everyone wants to experiment with the latest and greatest.

TheRealSy90

I was mainly commenting on his "tiny oil pan" statement. 8 quarts isn't tiny by a long shot lol. Also they developed it on a time attack car I think it will be sufficient for 99% of people.

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jedi03

with the k motors have they gone to a closed or semi closed deck? if not then the continued risk of cylinder warp/walk still exists...

RalliartRsX

They are "open deck" and able to make 1000 WHP+. The new designed block, with the integrated crank mains/gurney/ keep cylinder distortion to a minimum.