Protested - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

240 OR DIE · 08-23-2004, 06:11 PM

Ive been running sts for this year and part of last, and as of this past weekend it looks like the local protest police is finally decided its my turn. The car is sts legal except for what seems to be the update /backdate rule, which means when I swapped my open diff. for a 95 240 vlsd this bumped me out of the class. Nothing was said until now, so now Im tryin to find a solution to staying in sts, or moving to another class. Im not a fan of running against the stx cars eventhough Im sure Ill do well, but theres no way Ill be as competitive. And not to mention instead of being in the top 5 pax times Im sure Ill go further down. Otherwise SM and theres no f-in way Im prepared for the class. So as of now Im weighin out my options or takin a break from doin what I love the most. Fuck it if anybody has any answers to help let me know. Justin

Oh and my front bumper keeps me out of stock classes.

orion::S14 · 08-23-2004, 06:55 PM

Easy: Put the open diff back in, see if you're still competitive. Your driving style may work well with an open diff, and then you'll be legal.

Who the hell contested anyway...what a waste. You're not racing for money...

Someone is taking this way too seriously...it's supoosed to be fun.

If you're not at a national level, then you don't need to be concerned with anyone elses class choice or mods...unless they register a Z06 in STS...hehe.

- Brian

thelinja · 08-23-2004, 07:49 PM

Uhhh, as long as your car is an SE, VLSD is a stock option and is therefore legal in DSP, STS, GS, etc. It would simply be the same as selling your car, buying a 240 with VLSD, and swapping over your current mods.

If for some reason it is illegal to swap in a VLSD, even though it was available for the 240SX SE as a STOCK option, I would start to question to logicality of this rule because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

orion::S14 · 08-23-2004, 08:20 PM

If it's an SE, then he'd have to swap in the ABS system to make it legal...

As far as I understand it, it has to be the same as stock to be legal...so if ABS+VLSD was the only way to get a VLSD on the SE (it was), then you have to have it all.

SCCA rules suck with regards to stuff like this...

- - - - -

If you must keep the VLSD, then upgrade the front brakes, add tire/wheel width, etc...and become competitive in STX.

- Brian

Replicant_S14 · 08-24-2004, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion::S14

If it's an SE, then he'd have to swap in the ABS system to make it legal...

As far as I understand it, it has to be the same as stock to be legal...so if ABS+VLSD was the only way to get a VLSD on the SE (it was), then you have to have it all.

SCCA rules suck with regards to stuff like this...

- - - - -

If you must keep the VLSD, then upgrade the front brakes, add tire/wheel width, etc...and become competitive in STX.

- Brian

Yup. I moved for STS to STX for this exact reason. No one protested me. I moved on my own. It's just one of those deals. *shrug*

240 OR DIE · 08-23-2004, 09:23 PM

Discussion

***S14DB*** · 08-23-2004, 10:05 PM

I have leather but the chart you show says that I have to have ABS/VLSD to have leather. It's a STOCK part that was an option.

thelinja · 08-24-2004, 02:33 AM

Intersting, I've seen stock S14's with ABS only, as well as VLSD only. Although these cases are extremely rare, they do exist.

240 OR DIE · 08-24-2004, 08:16 AM

I personally agree, I bought my vlsd from a 95 240 that had vlsd only and was wrecked. Dont know if he swapped it in himself, but as far as ive been able to tell its a dealer option that could be installed at the factory w/o any other options added. The trouble is the update / backdate rule, since I swapped it out(last year it was legal), as of this year any parts that werent installed at the factory by the dealer means that swapping them in is breaking this update /backdate rule. That is the real problem not the mechanics behind it, its the fact that I did it, and it was not equipped in the car wehen I bought it from the factory. BS I tell ya, but I stick to the rules and if I cant find a way around it, I guess Ill be spankin subies from now on.

mikespeed95 · 08-24-2004, 09:16 AM

how do people protest this stuff. pay $50 to protest someone who obviously outdrove you, have them bumped out of yoru class for somethign stupid. in my ax experience, people who do that normally get looked down upon for "pussy protest"

ive protested someone once in sts, for running R compounds, i was a second off them on dunlop fm901 in a bone stock civic si, but it was obvious the R compounds were the only reason they were in front of me, so i mentioned it, they got bumped to SM.

R compounds can make a huge difference
2 tires spinning is not gonna make a big if any difference.

thats why i always lie and say my car is bone stock except the obvious visual mods to the untrained eye so i wont get hassled on stuff. and thank God my s13 coupe is canadian. vlsd owns j00.

Rennen · 08-25-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikespeed95

and thank God my s13 coupe is canadian. vlsd owns j00.

Welcome to E Mod

Oh, BTW you can look up options here: http://www.socal240sx.org/faq/specifications.html

LigouriRd · 08-25-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

As a rough guide, if your car has modifications beyond this list it is not eligible for Stock Category:

* Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed), plus

Quote:

No limited slip differentials are permitted except for factory standard viscous coupler type units.

-That sucks donkey schlong. I wouldn'ta believed it if I did'nt read it myself http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.html
Where the hell did this come from? So much for my installing a VLSD.

thelinja · 08-24-2004, 12:19 PM

Just tell them you bought the car and the LSD was already in it, it's the same thing. Unless you've already told them you installed it in place of the open diff. Still a pointless, stupid rule in my opinion. I can't wait for someone to protest my kouki sideskirts

What mods do you STX drivers have? I'm just curious because I plan on moving up to STX next season just because of my HLSD.

240eggsx · 08-24-2004, 02:50 PM

Thats fucked up... stupid crybabies. I run in STS with a tomei diff and 4.636 FD!

240 OR DIE · 08-24-2004, 07:01 PM

If anybody can help me find out if in fact vlsd was available w/o abs I can still run sts. If anyone knows where I might look let me know. Im searching the usual forums, but If anyone knows anything let me know. Ive been gettin great pleasure from stompin on these guys the whole year, and am not ready to quit just yet. Thanks Justin

hurleyboi514 · 08-25-2004, 05:24 AM

doh! thats what happens when you start to get fast, so take it as a compliment!

i got protested at a Divisional autox for not having the foam part of my back seat in... i think i actually found a way to get around it now, but its a little late. there is a rule that anything in the interior may be removed as long as it is not unbolted...

*AceInHole* · 08-25-2004, 09:34 PM

the VLSD was available as a stock option from the factory, according to the SoCal chart. VLSD is STS legal from my interpretation of the above rule.

Proof that VLSD was available as a standalone stock option for 240sx's lies in your diff not having an ABS sensor, BTW. And no one can provide proof that ABS and VLSD were only available together.

Following this logic, the protest fails and you stay in STS.

ryan hagen · 08-25-2004, 10:30 PM

go to your nissan dealer, have him print off the option list, my friend had a couple se's at his junk yard and said they were v-lsd, so we ran the vins, and it came back that it was unkown, so we checked how the options went, u could get v-lsd on its own or in like 2 or 3 difernt pacakges with other trim, seats, or sun roof, etc

LigouriRd · 08-26-2004, 06:19 AM

Quote:

17.1. AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS - STS

1. All Solo II Rules Stock Category allowances and the modifications that follow:
2. A. Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if:

(1) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken,
(2) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes)
The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined, or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions, or transaxles must be done as a complete unit as available from the factory, including those items required by emissions regulations for a particular configuration. Example: the Neon throttle body used on automatic transmission cars cannot be used on a manual transmission car. Component parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not be updated/backdated until approved by the SEB and published in SportsCar magazine.

Quote:

No limited slip differentials are permitted except for factory standard viscous coupler type units.

The rules can be interpretted to mean that 240SX SE, 240SX base, manual and auto are four different models. In that case is not legal to take a part off of an SE and put it on a base model. But the LSD is available as a complete unit from the factory, Courtesy Nissan sells the R200 LSD assembly, and it is the factory standard viscous coupler type unit. It is kinda vague.

Rennen · 08-26-2004, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LigouriRd

The rules can be interpreted to mean that 240SX SE, 240SX base, manual and auto are four different models.

Nope, the SCCA listing for our cars is "240SX ALL" so every 240SX ever made is the same model in the eyes of the SCCA, S13 and S14 alike.

-Matt

240 OR DIE · 08-26-2004, 10:51 AM

So I can go to the dealer and get a copy of the options list from them? If I can thatll be enough to prove that Im legal, otherwise does anyone know where I can find this documentation. FSM?

nismo2491 · 08-26-2004, 12:08 PM

talk to salesman that have been there a while and may have the old ordering guides.
KEvin

thelinja · 08-26-2004, 12:26 PM

Or just print out that page from SoCal240SX and show them. If you're like me, you're SOL when it comes to dealer knowledge. The dealers around here are no help to me at all.

240 OR DIE · 08-26-2004, 01:15 PM

The one on socal isn't clear on the options socal optios page

heres another that definitely makes sense but its not a dealers copy another list

Bueller..................bueller................

lilredstiffy · 08-26-2004, 01:50 PM

The problem is update/backdate. Since they changed the rule last year you are not allowed to swap to a vlsd unless *your* car came with it from the factory.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but thats how I read the rule changes from last year

sucks

at least you can still run stx

HippoSleek · 08-30-2004, 04:37 PM

Lance is on top of things here. The point of the rule was to eliminate the quasi-hybrid in which someone took a base model car (i.e., 4 gen. Honda hatchback), installed all the SI goodies, but did away with the sunroof and the other heavier items. As Lance said, as long as it could have been purchased from the factory a certain way, you are good to go.

The example of Neon throttle bodies is perfect: you can't go to your dealer and say you'd like a 5 speed w/ the throttle bodies of an auto or the final drive ratio of some other variant.

Similarly, let's take a hypothetical case and say that vlsd was available as an option on ALL S14s, but that it only came with ABS. In that case, you can only run the vlsd IF you also have an ABS equipped car b/c that's the only way it came.

Those cards on 240sx.org don't seem to be too helpful in proving that it was a stand-alone option, despite the fact that it was debated to death years ago by original owners who bought cars with vlsd but not abs. In this case, you need some sort of literature, etc. from an authority stating that a vlsd, non-abs car could be had from the factory.

Good luck with that.

240 OR DIE · 08-31-2004, 03:32 PM

Seems like its finally been laid to rest, the fact that I have a vlsd w/o an abs sensor was good enough proof

Thanks for everybodys help(esp. Lances13) and imput. STS in La. will have to find another way to keep me out of 1st place. Keep kickin ass guys, Later Justin

08-23-2004, 06:11 PM	#1
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Protested Ive been running sts for this year and part of last, and as of this past weekend it looks like the local protest police is finally decided its my turn. The car is sts legal except for what seems to be the update /backdate rule, which means when I swapped my open diff. for a 95 240 vlsd this bumped me out of the class. Nothing was said until now, so now Im tryin to find a solution to staying in sts, or moving to another class. Im not a fan of running against the stx cars eventhough Im sure Ill do well, but theres no way Ill be as competitive. And not to mention instead of being in the top 5 pax times Im sure Ill go further down. Otherwise SM and theres no f-in way Im prepared for the class. So as of now Im weighin out my options or takin a break from doin what I love the most. Fuck it if anybody has any answers to help let me know. Justin Oh and my front bumper keeps me out of stock classes. __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-23-2004, 09:23 PM	#6
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Discussion __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-23-2004, 10:05 PM	#7
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I have leather but the chart you show says that I have to have ABS/VLSD to have leather. It's a STOCK part that was an option. __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

08-24-2004, 08:16 AM	#9
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I personally agree, I bought my vlsd from a 95 240 that had vlsd only and was wrecked. Dont know if he swapped it in himself, but as far as ive been able to tell its a dealer option that could be installed at the factory w/o any other options added. The trouble is the update / backdate rule, since I swapped it out(last year it was legal), as of this year any parts that werent installed at the factory by the dealer means that swapping them in is breaking this update /backdate rule. That is the real problem not the mechanics behind it, its the fact that I did it, and it was not equipped in the car wehen I bought it from the factory. BS I tell ya, but I stick to the rules and if I cant find a way around it, I guess Ill be spankin subies from now on. __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-24-2004, 09:16 AM	#10
mikespeed95 Zilvia Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Age: 37 Posts: 179 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how do people protest this stuff. pay $50 to protest someone who obviously outdrove you, have them bumped out of yoru class for somethign stupid. in my ax experience, people who do that normally get looked down upon for "pussy protest" ive protested someone once in sts, for running R compounds, i was a second off them on dunlop fm901 in a bone stock civic si, but it was obvious the R compounds were the only reason they were in front of me, so i mentioned it, they got bumped to SM. R compounds can make a huge difference 2 tires spinning is not gonna make a big if any difference. thats why i always lie and say my car is bone stock except the obvious visual mods to the untrained eye so i wont get hassled on stuff. and thank God my s13 coupe is canadian. vlsd owns j00. __________________ i like drift racing

08-23-2004, 06:55 PM	#2
orion::S14 Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,665 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Easy: Put the open diff back in, see if you're still competitive. Your driving style may work well with an open diff, and then you'll be legal. Who the hell contested anyway...what a waste. You're not racing for money... Someone is taking this way too seriously...it's supoosed to be fun. If you're not at a national level, then you don't need to be concerned with anyone elses class choice or mods...unless they register a Z06 in STS...hehe. - Brian

08-23-2004, 07:49 PM	#3
thelinja Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,466 Trader Rating: (3) Rides Gallery: thelinja Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Uhhh, as long as your car is an SE, VLSD is a stock option and is therefore legal in DSP, STS, GS, etc. It would simply be the same as selling your car, buying a 240 with VLSD, and swapping over your current mods. If for some reason it is illegal to swap in a VLSD, even though it was available for the 240SX SE as a STOCK option, I would start to question to logicality of this rule because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

08-23-2004, 08:20 PM	#4
orion::S14 Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,665 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If it's an SE, then he'd have to swap in the ABS system to make it legal... As far as I understand it, it has to be the same as stock to be legal...so if ABS+VLSD was the only way to get a VLSD on the SE (it was), then you have to have it all. SCCA rules suck with regards to stuff like this... - - - - - If you must keep the VLSD, then upgrade the front brakes, add tire/wheel width, etc...and become competitive in STX. - Brian

08-24-2004, 02:33 AM	#8
thelinja Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,466 Trader Rating: (3) Rides Gallery: thelinja Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Intersting, I've seen stock S14's with ABS only, as well as VLSD only. Although these cases are extremely rare, they do exist.

08-24-2004, 12:19 PM	#13
thelinja Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,466 Trader Rating: (3) Rides Gallery: thelinja Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Just tell them you bought the car and the LSD was already in it, it's the same thing. Unless you've already told them you installed it in place of the open diff. Still a pointless, stupid rule in my opinion. I can't wait for someone to protest my kouki sideskirts What mods do you STX drivers have? I'm just curious because I plan on moving up to STX next season just because of my HLSD.

08-24-2004, 02:50 PM	#14
240eggsx BANNED Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: nowhere Posts: 136 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: 240eggsx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thats fucked up... stupid crybabies. I run in STS with a tomei diff and 4.636 FD!

08-24-2004, 07:01 PM	#15
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	If anybody can help me find out if in fact vlsd was available w/o abs I can still run sts. If anyone knows where I might look let me know. Im searching the usual forums, but If anyone knows anything let me know. Ive been gettin great pleasure from stompin on these guys the whole year, and am not ready to quit just yet. Thanks Justin __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-25-2004, 05:24 AM	#16
hurleyboi514 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Fort Posts: 905 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	doh! thats what happens when you start to get fast, so take it as a compliment! i got protested at a Divisional autox for not having the foam part of my back seat in... i think i actually found a way to get around it now, but its a little late. there is a rule that anything in the interior may be removed as long as it is not unbolted... __________________ HighTach Motorsports

08-25-2004, 09:34 PM	#17
AceInHole Autox Technician Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New Haven, CT Age: 40 Posts: 3,961 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: AceInHole Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the VLSD was available as a stock option from the factory, according to the SoCal chart. VLSD is STS legal from my interpretation of the above rule. Proof that VLSD was available as a standalone stock option for 240sx's lies in your diff not having an ABS sensor, BTW. And no one can provide proof that ABS and VLSD were only available together. Following this logic, the protest fails and you stay in STS. __________________

08-25-2004, 10:30 PM	#18
ryan hagen Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: rhinelander wisconsin Age: 38 Posts: 1,465 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	go to your nissan dealer, have him print off the option list, my friend had a couple se's at his junk yard and said they were v-lsd, so we ran the vins, and it came back that it was unkown, so we checked how the options went, u could get v-lsd on its own or in like 2 or 3 difernt pacakges with other trim, seats, or sun roof, etc __________________ 1990 hatch ka24de gt2871r

08-26-2004, 10:51 AM	#21
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	So I can go to the dealer and get a copy of the options list from them? If I can thatll be enough to prove that Im legal, otherwise does anyone know where I can find this documentation. FSM? __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-26-2004, 12:08 PM	#22
nismo2491 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern MD Age: 37 Posts: 1,373 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	talk to salesman that have been there a while and may have the old ordering guides. KEvin

08-26-2004, 12:26 PM	#23
thelinja Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,466 Trader Rating: (3) Rides Gallery: thelinja Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Or just print out that page from SoCal240SX and show them. If you're like me, you're SOL when it comes to dealer knowledge. The dealers around here are no help to me at all.

08-26-2004, 01:15 PM	#24
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	The one on socal isn't clear on the options socal optios page heres another that definitely makes sense but its not a dealers copy another list Bueller..................bueller................ __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

08-26-2004, 01:50 PM	#25
lilredstiffy Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: louisiana Posts: 618 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The problem is update/backdate. Since they changed the rule last year you are not allowed to swap to a vlsd unless your car came with it from the factory. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but thats how I read the rule changes from last year sucks at least you can still run stx

08-30-2004, 04:37 PM	#26
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Lance is on top of things here. The point of the rule was to eliminate the quasi-hybrid in which someone took a base model car (i.e., 4 gen. Honda hatchback), installed all the SI goodies, but did away with the sunroof and the other heavier items. As Lance said, as long as it could have been purchased from the factory a certain way, you are good to go. The example of Neon throttle bodies is perfect: you can't go to your dealer and say you'd like a 5 speed w/ the throttle bodies of an auto or the final drive ratio of some other variant. Similarly, let's take a hypothetical case and say that vlsd was available as an option on ALL S14s, but that it only came with ABS. In that case, you can only run the vlsd IF you also have an ABS equipped car b/c that's the only way it came. Those cards on 240sx.org don't seem to be too helpful in proving that it was a stand-alone option, despite the fact that it was debated to death years ago by original owners who bought cars with vlsd but not abs. In this case, you need some sort of literature, etc. from an authority stating that a vlsd, non-abs car could be had from the factory. Good luck with that.

08-31-2004, 03:32 PM	#27
240 OR DIE Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 261 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Seems like its finally been laid to rest, the fact that I have a vlsd w/o an abs sensor was good enough proof Thanks for everybodys help(esp. Lances13) and imput. STS in La. will have to find another way to keep me out of 1st place. Keep kickin ass guys, Later Justin __________________ Signature Exceeds 400x200 Maximum Limits set by the User Agreement!!

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