240booster

What does everybody know about Unstable Hybrid's coming soon Supercharger. Do u think it will be out by the time they say (this christmas) and what r the pros and cons of Supercharger vs. Turbo?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>? &nbsp;TIN

DSC

This doesn't have much info on them but... <a href="http://www.zilvia.net/forums/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=425" target='_blank'>http://www.zilvia.net/forums/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=2&amp;topic=425</a>

whateverjames

anyone remember the post about a supercharged SR20DE in australia? ran 12.3 on stock internals. they had a hold shit load of info on turbo vs supercharger. but one day the web page just stopped working <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

BlankFlip

superchargers r supposed to be cheaper, more reliable, n easier to maintain or not have the need to maintain them virtually at all. superchargers n turbos r both forced induction, but i would like to know how upgrading or modifying a supercharger all works out? bacially the same as a turbo set up?

transient

For me (unfortunately) it's going to add up to which is the cheapest power adder. Eventually i'll be able to afford a nice engine swap, and then I'll be happy, but that's not happening anytime soon.

jd90240sx

Yea there supercharger right now is only in the test phase and there is only one as of right now going on the KA24E. &nbsp;They told me that if the supercharger works well that if people are willing to buy it for there 240sx's then they might start producing them to be sold for a price that they have not came to the conclusion of yet.

Jeff240sx

But see, since a supercharger is always on, even at idle and startup, it tears up your engine. &nbsp;A car the relies on high psi supercharged power will have an engine life about 30% less than a turbo'd car. &nbsp;And if all Nissans break at 100k miles (hypothetically) with a turbo charger, then you will only get 70k miles supercharged. &nbsp;Then when you think that after depreciation, oil, gas, tires, and everything else a company adds up when they pay you per mile, it costs $.38 a mile. &nbsp;So if had a job that you drove a lot for, like a salesman, then those 30k miles at 38 cents a pop will cost you $11,400. &nbsp;And me personally, I'd rather have the 30k miles and drive through those last miles than have to buy a new car sooner.
-Jeff

jd90240sx

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Jeff240sx on 9:16 am on Oct. 22, 2001
But see, since a supercharger is always on, even at idle and startup, it tears up your engine.-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>


Where did you get your information from. &nbsp;Just because the supercharger is on during idle it does not tear up your engine. &nbsp;Under no engine load the supercharger builds no boost. &nbsp;Also what you didn't know is that a supercharged motor lasts longer than a turbocharged motor because superchargers are way more efficient than a turbo and put less strain on a motor and also make the motor run more cleaner and efficient.

BlankFlip

that's what i always though, nebody else have ne info on this?

Jeff240sx

A super charger makes maximum boost under high rpms, sure, but even at low rpms, it is making boost.... &nbsp;If the crank is moving, then the supercharger pully is moving. &nbsp;When it moves, a series of gears moves with it, and you've got boost. &nbsp;
And btw, what damages the engine the most? &nbsp;Start-up. &nbsp;And there is a reason that you are supposed to turn the air conditioning off when you crank the car. &nbsp;The moving parts have no oil circulating... &nbsp;And you are gonna turn on a car with something a lot harder to move than a compressor. &nbsp;I won't.
And as far as turbo vs supercharger... the turbo almost always wins (not drag test, but comparison). &nbsp;According to SCC magazine, the issue about 3 months ago, to supercharge an integra, it would take 65 horsepower off the crank at full power. &nbsp;And in a turbo charger, it is only about 17 hp. &nbsp;And &nbsp;the thermal efficiency of the turbo is much better, and finally, max boost in a turbo is reached in the mid-high rpms, as opposed to the superchargers redline to make the most boost.
-Jeff

LanceS13

I know Eaton superchargers have a vacuum bypass valve that causes the boost to only come on when you're under load. Here's a little info from Jackson Racing...
&quot;1. The Eaton supercharger is essentially a Roots blower pump, with one substantial design wrinkle; each rotor has been twisted 60 degrees to form a helix. The two counter rotating rotors have three lobes, which intermesh during operation. These twisted rotors, along with specially designed inlet and outlet port geometry, help to reduce pressure variations resulting in a smooth discharge of air and a low level of noise during operation. This arrangement also improves efficiency over traditional Roots superchargers. With helical rotors and an axial inlet the Eaton supercharger can be spun to up to 14,000 rpm, thereby reducing package size.
2. The Eaton supercharger system incorporates a specially designed bypass valve, which is actuated by a vacuum motor near the throttle body, and recirculates the supercharger air flow when boost is not required. During typical driving conditions, the engine is under boost around 5% of the time, which means the remaining 95% of the time the engine is under vacuum, allowing for better fuel economy and a quieter ride. In addition, the helix angled rotors, along with specially designed inlet and outlet port geometry, also reduce pressure variations resulting in a smooth discharge flow and a lower level of noise during operation. The associated ducting and mounting used in installing the supercharger can play a major role in reducing the noise emitted by the supercharger.
3. The reliability of the Eaton supercharger was the first criteria, which was addressed during early design development of the supercharger. Dedicated engineers with backgrounds in compressors, gearing, tribology and metallurgy, as well as thermal and structural analysis enabled Eaton to find solutions to many reliability concerns. In addition, strict customer durability test criteria have been achieved. Successful completion of numerous 500 hour durability tests established a firm grasp on achieving a reliable product. In addition, numerous vehicles have successfully completed 100,000 mile, OEM (original equipment manufacturer), vehicle durability tests. Improvements in bearing and seal designs also aided in a product which meets all OEM durability criteria.&quot;

That said...each have their advantages and disadvantages. If one were significantly better than the other, only that design would ever be used.

(Edited by LanceS13 at 2:24 pm on Oct. 22, 2001)

Tuck&Poke

the pros of a superchager are that scince it runs off of &nbsp;a belt (sometimes an alternator or something like that) it keeps spining even when you shift so you get a little boost in accleleration. &nbsp;the con is that a supercharger cant put out as much boost as a turbo can. &nbsp;the pros of a turbo is that it can put more boost as i said before and it makes a cool sound when it spools and when you shift but when you shift it has to spool up all over again.
not to mention superchargers are cheaper but not bye much. &nbsp;this is how it works. &nbsp;a turbo runs by using spent exhaust gases to spin its turbine which then sux in air through the air filter. &nbsp;once its charged it passes through an intercooler and then goes to the intak manifold. &nbsp;a supercharer is much simpler as it bolts sometimes directly on to the intake manifold and uses a belt to spin its.... thingy that sux in air through the airfilter. &nbsp;superchargers dont really need intercoolers and thats another reason why theyre cheaper. &nbsp;and yes a supercharger would put about the same amount of stress on an engine as a turbo just at different times. &nbsp;a turbo runs more boost i.e. more stress on the engine. &nbsp;but a supercharger runs all the time so although it puts less boost it runs it more constantly so the engine is never under little stress.

BlankFlip

so if i was only planning on running like 7psi of boost, should i just go w/ a supercharger? but don't superchargers have aftercoolers? how does this play into a supercharger's set up? similar to how an intercooler works w/ a turbo?

Tuck&Poke

well im not sure but yea ive head of the aftercooler. &nbsp;im pretty sure it does the same thing that he intercooler does. &nbsp;it cools the air after if passes through the supercharger, or (i dont really think this is the reason though) it cools the exhaust gasses which seems pretty pointless but those are my guesses ill see what i can find on it though

BadMoJo

Yeah, thats what I have heard. The SC is the more reliable way to go. And another thing, I have heard that a turbo makes under-hood temps alot higher than an SC, and thats never good. And there is no turbo lag!! &nbsp;&quot;instant on&quot; power! I just hope unStable-Hybrids goes through with there plans to make an SC for the ka24de.

whateverjames

i hear the supercharger has it's own lubrication which doesn't have to be messed with for 100,000 miles? another good thing is you don't have to worry about a turbo timer, oil lines, or tapping into your oil pan.

BlankFlip

what this be the same even if both only relied on about 7psi of boost? or does this only apply to cars boosting like 20psi?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Jeff240sx on 11:16 am on Oct. 22, 2001
But see, since a supercharger is always on, even at idle and startup, it tears up your engine. A car the relies on high psi supercharged power will have an engine life about 30% less than a turbo'd car. And if all Nissans break at 100k miles (hypothetically) with a turbo charger, then you will only get 70k miles supercharged. Then when you think that after depreciation, oil, gas, tires, and everything else a company adds up when they pay you per mile, it costs $.38 a mile. So if had a job that you drove a lot for, like a salesman, then those 30k miles at 38 cents a pop will cost you $11,400. And me personally, I'd rather have the 30k miles and drive through those last miles than have to buy a new car sooner.
-Jeff
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

240booster

Man this Supercharger sounds kewl as #### and obviously the best choice ..... &nbsp;welll for me that is ... we should allll put a little pressure on unStable Hybrids to encourage the project maybe they get on the ball a little bit!!!! &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;:-)

BlankFlip

yeah, we should do something about it so that they can pick up the pace n know that we show some interest in it. i really want to c some actual results n prices for this. we could post a new thread about it or something then email them a link to the posts so that they can c how interested many 240SX owners r in it.

BadMoJo

That sounds like a #### good idea! I am all for that 100% <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;It would be mad sweet if they put a bit more focus on the project because of us, and actually made solid plans for the ka24de.

Chokudori

If a carb legal Supercharger it is available for around $2000. I would be very interested.