The fabrication thread. - Page 55 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

clark · 04-10-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bardabe

Haha Thanks guys yeah practice makes perfect it had actually been a while since i did some aluminum fab work. definetly missed working with aluminum i enjoyed every minute of it. i'll have updated pics later on today. Just got done installing the real couplers that are going on it. (4ply high heat silicone) and Stainless Steel Tbolt clamps. can we say balling? haha

Edit:
This is what 140$ in couplers and clamps looks like

aren't 2" T-bolt clamps the cutest thing? lol

sorry everyone, i had to quote at least one pic so bardabe knows what i'm talking about.

won't that piping transition create a shit ton of turbulence?

like jeff said the reducer coupler would be a better route because it's a smoother transition from the smaller pipe to the larger pipe.

no offense, but what you did is gonna create a train wreck inside your piping.

bardabe · 04-10-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3AM

well when I did mine I used a silicon reducer straight off the side of the cooler, and keeping the pipe small all the way. so im not just reviewing someones shit online... probably easier and quicker infact with less welding and matching to do... silicon reducer was like $15

Depends on how you look at it and want it done. going from a 2" Hot Pipe into an Enormous 3" intercooler like that Will make allot more turbulence

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

sorry everyone, i had to quote at least one pic so bardabe knows what i'm talking about.

won't that piping transition create a shit ton of turbulence?

like jeff said the reducer coupler would be a better route because it's a smoother transition from the smaller pipe to the larger pipe.

no offense, but what you did is gonna create a train wreck inside your piping.

How is that going to make a train wreck? My client wanted full 3" intercooler piping. the closest to the Turbo i can make it 3" the better. i could not find any high quality 3' - 2" 4ply silicone reducers. that are high temp. as close as that piping is to the manifold i did not want my customer to be melting couplers like they where marshmallows.

another thing. is that going from 2-> 2.5" ->3" would require more couplers, more and more clamps. making chances of boost leaks allot more probable. yes I could have gone that route, but then he wouldn't have a true full 3" Intercooler piping like he wanted. i mean if you look at a GTR's Hot pipe off the turbo that alone makes wayyyy more turbulence than that hot pipe.

this is a good example

see how it's like a T. i really don't see how my reduction will be a "train wreck" as far as responce goes, it's all about the tuning and your motor. look at RB26's they are the perfect example of this. they have full 3" intercooler piping. 2.6liters, and Twin T28's yet their spool is phenomenal and response is insane.

so a 2l iter should have no problem with this, specially if he gets a nice set of cams and proper tuning.

GSXRJJordan · 04-10-2009, 12:42 PM

^^^ I agree that it's not as big a deal as everyone's making it out to be - like I said, intercooler piping's one of those things that turns into a "whatever works" scenario, because unless you're moving the intercooler physically closer to the turbo/intake mani, it's just not going to make that much of a difference.

And turbulence? It's all under pressure lol. Turbulence isn't going to matter.

alexander500 · 04-10-2009, 01:05 PM

It isn't an F1 car. There is nothing wrong with that intercooler piping. You are being way over dramatic.

Good job bardabe

neukin · 04-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Catch can for the KA, pretty clean and simple, takes up space never used if electric fan'd. I tried to put the KA valve cover curve in the top so it would look better.

bardabe · 04-10-2009, 05:30 PM

^^ how exactly does that catch can work? There isn't a visual vacuum source. welds looks good though, you need to improve the pedal control. i can tell you where too hot in a few spots. other than that it looks great!

neukin · 04-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Just catches oil that would blow by from increase crank case pressure, since its turbo you no longer want to recirc it back into the intake since that will coat pipes and ic with oil and it increase detonation when tuning. (not to mention most stock locations would force boosted air into the engine ha) So its kinda required so you dont coat track with oil and kill someone that corners through it at 90mph. There are other designs that would draw some vac to help pull hot gases out of the engine and replace with fresh by putting holes in the block where the plugs are and removing pvc system. You would get that vac from the exhaust by a tube welded at a large angle. Then your not sucking in oilish hot air from the engine into the intake.

Its very thin and hand cut so minor gaps, AL is easy if thicker but thats like 1/16th

Then too boot i belt sand to level the cuts out.. thus material other then AL like grit and glue get on the edge making the weld hard to control as you burn those elements slight contamination will occur. This AL also had that plastic coating on one side and i left on while belt sanding so that can get into the groves left from the grit on sanding belt. So there are a few hot spots or hard to control area where this happened.. give me prime conditions and ill throw down some super sexiness if thats your fedish, im a pedal control storm trooper of death. I helped build the death star for vader but i figued out time control and came to this age because 240sxs are cooler then 3d moving space ships.. the blackness of space is boring but the 2d movment of this age is rather refreshing.

bardabe · 04-10-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neukin

Just catches oil that would blow by from increase crank case pressure, since its turbo you no longer want to recirc it back into the intake since that will coat pipes and ic with oil and it increase detonation when tuning. (not to mention most stock locations would force boosted air into the engine ha) So its kinda required so you dont coat track with oil and kill someone that corners through it at 90mph. There are other designs that would draw some vac to help pull hot gases out of the engine and replace with fresh by putting holes in the block where the plugs are and removing pvc system. You would get that vac from the exhaust by a tube welded at a large angle. Then your not sucking in oilish hot air from the engine into the intake.

Its very thin and hand cut so minor gaps, AL is easy if thicker but thats like 1/16th

Then too boot i belt sand to level the cuts out.. thus material other then AL like grit and glue get on the edge making the weld hard to control as you burn those elements slight contamination will occur. This AL also had that plastic coating on one side and i left on while belt sanding so that can get into the groves left from the grit on sanding belt. So there are a few hot spots or hard to control area where this happened.. give me prime conditions and ill throw down some super sexiness if thats your fedish, im a pedal control storm trooper of death. I helped build the death star for vader but i figued out time control and came to this age because 240sxs are cooler then 3d moving space ships.. the blackness of space is boring but the 2d movment of this age is rather refreshing.

LOL your awesome. dude love the scifi epicness of win.

as far as the contamination i always keep a clean shop rag and a spray bottle full of rubbing alcohol and wipe down the areas before i weld them. removes and oils, and contaminants from the surface allowing you cleaner welds.

as far as the evacuation from the crank goes, you really should put it back to the turbo it won't suck up oil and coat the pipes in an oily film ive done it time after time. im even running my Z32 like that. no oil in my piping at all.

nsn240 · 04-10-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bardabe

^^ how exactly does that catch can work? There isn't a visual vacuum source. welds looks good though, you need to improve the pedal control. i can tell you where too hot in a few spots. other than that it looks great!

Nuekin- I completely disagree. It should be routed just like stock... Just like the picture you were referring to except it needs to route back to the intake (pre turbo) to actually relieve crankcase pressure. The idea is to create vaccuum.

Simply 'catches' the shit you wouldnt want going back to your intake, that's the whole point, to keep the system functional and putting in the catch can to keep pipes oil free. Breather filter doesn't cut it because it doesn't release enough pressure or create any vaccuum or pull - thus not allowing the crankcase pressure out of the head/block. Low pressure on the bottom side of the piston is Good, allowing the piston to be pushed down/turn crank easier. No intake vaccuum = positive crank pressure which can lead to a bunch of shitty problem

neukin · 04-10-2009, 11:17 PM

So when a piston goes up your negative pressure would be bad so whats the gain?

Also like i said the whole reason for it is to keep hot and oiled air out of the intake system since it can create detonation. (oil in ic and oil on your MAF isnt good either)

The oil that shoots out of the valve cover from excessive pressure (kicked up from cams and such) is caught by the can and the filter is large thus letting any positive air move through the filter. Id use another vac source like i said in the last post. The only reason the factory setup goes into the intake is for emissions and its legal.

nsn240 · 04-10-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neukin

So when a piston goes up your negative pressure would be bad so whats the gain?

Also like i said the whole reason for it is to keep hot and oiled air out of the intake system since it can create detonation. (oil in ic and oil on your MAF isnt good either)

The oil that shoots out of the valve cover from excessive pressure (kicked up from cams and such) is caught by the can and the filter is large thus letting any positive air move through the filter. Id use another vac source like i said in the last post. The only reason the factory setup goes into the intake is for emissions and its legal.

I don't want to go to far off topic here... there's no advantage to having a pressurized motor, forcing the piston upwards certainly isn't worth the other problems its going to cause nor does it make sense from an engineering standpoint.

You want vacuum, not just a pressure vent, look at stock setups from any car - PCV valve to the IM, usually a vent to the intake. Why would they design it there if it was pointless? Might as well just seal everything shut. Whoever designed the SR put in the factory air/water separator above the exh. mani stock..
You also realize that almost every vacuum source (minus exhaust flow) is going back into the motor anyways.

The idea of the evac system is to remove pressure, search it, google it, whatever... every car comes with one, some ls1's have a seperate vaccuum pump designated for it. Oil shooting from a VC is usually a sign of more serious issues than standard crankcase pressure.

I started a thread a while back and here's some more info
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1199935

neukin · 04-11-2009, 04:47 AM

Ill check it out, prob seen it already.. dig Hondatech been member since like 03 but the extra power you make over factory specs through modification on a engine require modification elsewhere. I understand all pressure comes from gas coming past the rings small percentage from heat expansion. The valve to head has gravity paths where gas may travel up as oil goes down. I dont see it ever getting pressurized with the correct valve cover or engine plug mods. If you ran vac its best from exhaust never the intake for the reason i already said. The vac is not needed but would help suck the blowby out.

I just looked at that first post and you even say its good if that was you that started the thread.

"This method is adequate for ventilating crankcase gasses in turbocharged/supercharged cars because the extra blow-by will force its way through any filter quite easily. You want to make sure you provide as many sources as possible to allow the pressure to escape with ease."

"highest possible location you can locate in your engine bay"

Im done talking about this haha, gee

blu808 · 04-11-2009, 08:55 PM

Something interesting coming soon.

GSXRJJordan · 04-11-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Something interesting coming soon.

Haha, ahhhhhhhhhhhh shit!

bardabe · 04-12-2009, 01:00 AM

yuuum Gotta Love Turbo V8's

duffman1278 · 04-12-2009, 03:20 AM

Well I've been doing more welding on the chasis for my school, I just kept forgetting my camera but now I finally got pics!

I started getting my technique down a little bit better on the TIG lately. Of course they're still imperfections but I'm getting better slowly.

I'll have to practice stainless steel though since we have some parts we need welded up that are going to be stainless to stainless. I've never done this though. I believe I have to use AC settings though. Any advice would also help

nieko · 04-12-2009, 03:34 AM

no you dont use AC for stainless.

fuuuckkk i love it, it flows nicely and its pretty

your gunna love it too sir!

Xracer · 04-12-2009, 01:06 PM

Is that chassis for the FSAE competition?!?

duffman1278 · 04-12-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

Is that chassis for the FSAE competition?!?

Something like that.

bardabe · 04-13-2009, 12:09 AM

Luke your an animal lol

-half drunk

Xracer · 04-13-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffman1278

Something like that.

We are in the process of building our chassis here at the University of Minnesota as well. Should have the chassis done by the end of the week.

duffman1278 · 04-13-2009, 12:32 AM

Same here, I hope, I have minor things to weld though such as bungs, but there's alot so I know it'll add up.

Hillkill · 04-13-2009, 01:00 AM

Just a couple pics of stuff I've been working on.
First is a cage in a rb20 hatch. I'm especially happy that I got the door bars to clear the door panels on this one

Next up is the scrap13... Basically built from what was left from my s12 after the crash..
I figured with how much room I had I mine as well go v-mount. Lol

Hope you enjoy

Om1kron · 04-13-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

I don't know how you get all that done in a day - that's SOOOO much work! lol

because he doesn't spend all day spanking it to his own wheels and how fat the lip is, and fixing the wiring in my car... you know, like you. =P

Now finish your tubs jackass lol.

longfellow · 04-14-2009, 09:26 AM

Its almost done but heres the tubs I did:

*Jonnie Fraz* · 04-14-2009, 09:25 PM

^^I see you did your own fender braces. Look pretty cool.

duffman1278 · 04-14-2009, 11:18 PM

I got a question for you guys about welding 4130 chromoly.

Is it fine to cool the welds in water right after welding the tubes?

I believe I heard that it can cause the welds to crack. Hopefully someone can verify if this is true or not.

blu808 · 04-14-2009, 11:43 PM

Use minimum heat input when welding 4130. It gets brittle if you input to much heat, and starts to carbon scale. Also allow to cool slowly. In the aerospace industry they usually heat treat the entire welded piece after welding, just to reduce the possibility of cracking.

Mister.E · 04-14-2009, 11:52 PM

those tubs above look fucking sick. nice work man

duffman1278 · 04-15-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Use minimum heat input when welding 4130. It gets brittle if you input to much heat, and starts to carbon scale. Also allow to cool slowly. In the aerospace industry they usually heat treat the entire welded piece after welding, just to reduce the possibility of cracking.

Thanks for the info.

I've just been running 50amps for .049" tubing and it seems to be fine so far.

Me and the other guy welding at school were going to heat up the welds with oxy and let it cool down naturually.

04-10-2009, 12:42 PM	#1623
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	^^^ I agree that it's not as big a deal as everyone's making it out to be - like I said, intercooler piping's one of those things that turns into a "whatever works" scenario, because unless you're moving the intercooler physically closer to the turbo/intake mani, it's just not going to make that much of a difference. And turbulence? It's all under pressure lol. Turbulence isn't going to matter. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

04-10-2009, 05:06 PM	#1625
neukin Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Wayne IN Posts: 174 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Catch can for the KA, pretty clean and simple, takes up space never used if electric fan'd. I tried to put the KA valve cover curve in the top so it would look better. __________________ Neukin Motor Development llc 399 River Bend CT Fort Wayne IN 46803 -->Neukin Store<-- -->DRIFT Clutch Store<--

04-10-2009, 05:30 PM	#1626
bardabe Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Age: 31 Posts: 4,716 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: bardabe Feedback Score: 10 reviews	^^ how exactly does that catch can work? There isn't a visual vacuum source. welds looks good though, you need to improve the pedal control. i can tell you where too hot in a few spots. other than that it looks great! __________________ Review Thread

04-10-2009, 06:26 PM	#1627
neukin Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Wayne IN Posts: 174 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Just catches oil that would blow by from increase crank case pressure, since its turbo you no longer want to recirc it back into the intake since that will coat pipes and ic with oil and it increase detonation when tuning. (not to mention most stock locations would force boosted air into the engine ha) So its kinda required so you dont coat track with oil and kill someone that corners through it at 90mph. There are other designs that would draw some vac to help pull hot gases out of the engine and replace with fresh by putting holes in the block where the plugs are and removing pvc system. You would get that vac from the exhaust by a tube welded at a large angle. Then your not sucking in oilish hot air from the engine into the intake. Its very thin and hand cut so minor gaps, AL is easy if thicker but thats like 1/16th Then too boot i belt sand to level the cuts out.. thus material other then AL like grit and glue get on the edge making the weld hard to control as you burn those elements slight contamination will occur. This AL also had that plastic coating on one side and i left on while belt sanding so that can get into the groves left from the grit on sanding belt. So there are a few hot spots or hard to control area where this happened.. give me prime conditions and ill throw down some super sexiness if thats your fedish, im a pedal control storm trooper of death. I helped build the death star for vader but i figued out time control and came to this age because 240sxs are cooler then 3d moving space ships.. the blackness of space is boring but the 2d movment of this age is rather refreshing. __________________ Neukin Motor Development llc 399 River Bend CT Fort Wayne IN 46803 -->Neukin Store<-- -->DRIFT Clutch Store<--

04-10-2009, 11:17 PM	#1630
neukin Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Wayne IN Posts: 174 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	So when a piston goes up your negative pressure would be bad so whats the gain? Also like i said the whole reason for it is to keep hot and oiled air out of the intake system since it can create detonation. (oil in ic and oil on your MAF isnt good either) The oil that shoots out of the valve cover from excessive pressure (kicked up from cams and such) is caught by the can and the filter is large thus letting any positive air move through the filter. Id use another vac source like i said in the last post. The only reason the factory setup goes into the intake is for emissions and its legal. __________________ Neukin Motor Development llc 399 River Bend CT Fort Wayne IN 46803 -->Neukin Store<-- -->DRIFT Clutch Store<--

04-10-2009, 01:05 PM	#1624
alexander500 Zilvia Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Age: 40 Posts: 299 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	It isn't an F1 car. There is nothing wrong with that intercooler piping. You are being way over dramatic. Good job bardabe

04-11-2009, 04:47 AM	#1632
neukin Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Wayne IN Posts: 174 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Ill check it out, prob seen it already.. dig Hondatech been member since like 03 but the extra power you make over factory specs through modification on a engine require modification elsewhere. I understand all pressure comes from gas coming past the rings small percentage from heat expansion. The valve to head has gravity paths where gas may travel up as oil goes down. I dont see it ever getting pressurized with the correct valve cover or engine plug mods. If you ran vac its best from exhaust never the intake for the reason i already said. The vac is not needed but would help suck the blowby out. I just looked at that first post and you even say its good if that was you that started the thread. "This method is adequate for ventilating crankcase gasses in turbocharged/supercharged cars because the extra blow-by will force its way through any filter quite easily. You want to make sure you provide as many sources as possible to allow the pressure to escape with ease." "highest possible location you can locate in your engine bay" Im done talking about this haha, gee __________________ Neukin Motor Development llc 399 River Bend CT Fort Wayne IN 46803 -->Neukin Store<-- -->DRIFT Clutch Store<--

04-11-2009, 08:55 PM	#1633
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 38 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Something interesting coming soon. __________________

04-12-2009, 01:00 AM	#1635
bardabe Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Age: 31 Posts: 4,716 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: bardabe Feedback Score: 10 reviews	yuuum Gotta Love Turbo V8's __________________ Review Thread

04-12-2009, 03:20 AM	#1636
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Well I've been doing more welding on the chasis for my school, I just kept forgetting my camera but now I finally got pics! I started getting my technique down a little bit better on the TIG lately. Of course they're still imperfections but I'm getting better slowly. I'll have to practice stainless steel though since we have some parts we need welded up that are going to be stainless to stainless. I've never done this though. I believe I have to use AC settings though. Any advice would also help __________________

04-12-2009, 03:34 AM	#1637
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 30 Posts: 2,694 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	no you dont use AC for stainless. fuuuckkk i love it, it flows nicely and its pretty your gunna love it too sir! __________________

04-12-2009, 01:06 PM	#1638
Xracer Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 660 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Is that chassis for the FSAE competition?!? __________________ R34 NEO POWER

04-13-2009, 12:09 AM	#1640
bardabe Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Age: 31 Posts: 4,716 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: bardabe Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Luke your an animal lol -half drunk __________________ Review Thread

04-13-2009, 12:32 AM	#1642
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Same here, I hope, I have minor things to weld though such as bungs, but there's alot so I know it'll add up. __________________

04-13-2009, 01:00 AM	#1643
Hillkill Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Orange County/Brisbane, CA Posts: 349 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Just a couple pics of stuff I've been working on. First is a cage in a rb20 hatch. I'm especially happy that I got the door bars to clear the door panels on this one Next up is the scrap13... Basically built from what was left from my s12 after the crash.. I figured with how much room I had I mine as well go v-mount. Lol Hope you enjoy __________________ GET SOME!

04-14-2009, 09:26 AM	#1645
longfellow Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Tampa Area Posts: 606 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Its almost done but heres the tubs I did:

04-14-2009, 09:25 PM	#1646
Jonnie Fraz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cali Age: 53 Posts: 1,371 Trader Rating: (29) Rides Gallery: Jonnie Fraz Feedback Score: 29 reviews	^^I see you did your own fender braces. Look pretty cool. __________________ Stealth-Custom-Fab.com

04-14-2009, 11:18 PM	#1647
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I got a question for you guys about welding 4130 chromoly. Is it fine to cool the welds in water right after welding the tubes? I believe I heard that it can cause the welds to crack. Hopefully someone can verify if this is true or not. __________________

04-14-2009, 11:43 PM	#1648
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 38 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Use minimum heat input when welding 4130. It gets brittle if you input to much heat, and starts to carbon scale. Also allow to cool slowly. In the aerospace industry they usually heat treat the entire welded piece after welding, just to reduce the possibility of cracking. __________________

04-14-2009, 11:52 PM	#1649
Mister.E Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Las Vegas Age: 36 Posts: 4,590 Trader Rating: (53) Feedback Score: 53 reviews	those tubs above look fucking sick. nice work man

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