ms!3

your always welcome to leave, guy.

zeitgeist

For Iraq Im not really sure what to think. Yeah everything is pretty good but if we leave Im afraid its just going to go to hell again making our efforts worthless.

But for afghaniland, I think its a waste of fucking time. Seriously if we miraculously did manage to kill all the insurgents, the country still wouldnt be able to function on its own. The terrain makes communication extremely difficult and the inhabitants arent going to kindly listen to some government just because. Its a country made up of tribes whom have made up their own rules for centuries. The US is going to have to continue to pay for the Afghan gov, army, police, education etc. because the afghans cant and prob wont pay for it.

Im sorry for all the people that have lost their lives and I do believe it is a noble fight but one just needs to know when to say enough is enough. No sense sending more people to die just because you want to honor fallen soldiers. We could have solved so many problems in this world with the money and manpower that has been wasted

KA24DESOneThree

You are letting your emotions guide your "argument." This is why dissent is no longer tolerated here in this country, because people will lay out those who engender negative emotions. Rationalize your position.

It takes courage to ignore the sovereignty of a nation and obey leaders' political agendas?

It takes courage to participate in a war where, since we've occupied the countries, tens of thousands (if not well over a hundred thousand) of innocent people have died by our hand and by those we've inflamed?

Look at the percentages and the numbers in this news story. They are staggering.

I understand that a large portion of this board is military or military-affiliated. My purpose is not to piss off those people but express my opinion on this complete and total bullshit.

These wars are NOT right, are NOT just. Our leaders spent the American peoples' tax dollars to go "spread peace" through superior firepower. American leaders said they were doing the will of the American people by sending American troops to spread peace through use of force. Do you understand just how ridiculous that argument is?

Did I say "All terrorists are freedom fighters?" Did I condone the killing of civilians in any way, shape, or form? No and no. Stop being stupid.

Every one of the 9/11 hijackers who actually flew a plane into a building or into the ground died. We were left with nothing but a trail of crumbs and a scapegoat. We ignored the sovereignty of Afghanistan and invaded under the guise of removing an oppressive regime. We ignored the sovereignty of Iraq and invaded under the guise of removing an oppressive regime. Both countries are now more violent than they were before.

I will not leave the country I was born and raised in. I will fight to make it a better place; a country of stronger principles.

zeitgeist

I agree with you somewhat^
I do hate how it has become an evil to become a dissenter against wartime policies.
Everytime you kill one of these jihadist or civilians youve just created 2 or three more. His father, brother, cousin, friend is now pissed and want to kill some americans. Lets face it, if someone did this to someone you loved, youd feel exactly the same.

ronmcdon

You're not just fighting a large number of ppl who dislike you.
You're also fighting the whole region.
You have the Pakistanis on the East, & Iran to the West.

If the US could intervene in any way right now,
I'd hypothesize that it would be best to help Iran dissidents overthrow their damned 'Supreme Leader'.

I do see Pakistan as being the biggest exisitng problem after Afghan.
They simply don't have an effective government since Musharaff (sp?) left.

HalveBlue

I could write a whole thesis on this topic (and I just might have to in the future).

Some points to note:

-WWI
-WWII
-The Cold War
-Hegemonic Stability Theory
-Israel
-Afghan tribal politics
-US-Middle Eastern foreign policy and interactions
-Middle Eastern sociology
-Oil
-Nuclear Proliferation

All of those topics are tremendously relevant and intertwined in our current engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the region as a whole.

This issue is tremendously broad and covers time lines far exceeding the last 10, 20, or even 30 years.

I, for one, do not for believe that if the US pulls out of Afghanistan or Iraq now, that we'd be safer or better off.

FWIW, I think Iraq - if the situation continues on its present course - is destined to become another Lebanon.

I welcome anyone that seeks further information about these issues to visit the following websites:

- Small Wars Journal
- Home | Foreign Affairs
- Program for Culture and Conflict Studies at NPS - Home
- The Long War Journal

This is just the tip of the iceberg; proceed with caution.

Enjoy your trip down the rabbit hole!

Omarius Maximus

Leaving Afghanistan is not an option.

Turn your backs like the Soviets did, and you're gonna get Osama jr. setting up base.

Plus I have family there, so I appreciate you military guys' efforts.

DJDANGER24

all i know is, i dont wanna go back. but if i get recalled to go back, ill fight proudly for this country. agree with the war or not, if we dont try and fix things in this world, who will ? America may not be perfect IMO, but at least were trying...

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zeitgeist

There are hundreds of osamas out there right now. When he is dead someone just as bad or worse will replace him. Osama doesnt mean shit anymore. Hes more of icon than anything now

fliprayzin240sx

Really, you think we killed thousands of innocent civilians in our "occupation" of Iraq and Afghanistan? How many civilians do you think dies in Iraq every year since the first Gulf War? We established 2 No-Fly-Zones in an effort to keep Saddam from fucking chemical bombing the Kurds and the Shiates.

With all the damn ROEs we have in the desert, civilian casualties are actually low. We'd rather lose troops than piss off the locals.

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