S13 Silvia Metal Fender Production Request - Page 3 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

***dorkidori_s13*** · 06-28-2019, 12:16 PM

shit, Nissan needs to send me the molds for the S13 aero bumper, 180sx zenki/chuki/kouki bumpers, all the side skirts and the chuki/kouki valances and all ill get all them bishes back into production via ABS plastic

CamryOnBronze · 06-28-2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

those are discontinued.

If you read my post again, you will see that I mentioned they are discontinued. 8)

All I was trying to state is that companies DID produce these at one point in time. Obviously it wouldn't make sense for them to continue to produce them for vehicles that are largely no longer on the road aside from enthusiasts who are restoring them. Companies like that are not in the business of restoration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

Part of your assumption is that these companies actually own the rights to the mold, when in reality it is often contract work or approved OE aftermarket replacement fenders.

Many times, part of the contract stipulates that if it is discontinued, the factory no longer has rights to reproduce the fenders. Tooling is a very expensive part of OE parts manufacturing, and most of the auto makers rely on parts suppliers to absorb the cost of tooling so they can reduce their R&D costs.

And going back to a point I made earlier... it will not be $600 for new fenders. The more people believe that the more it won't happen.

I don't doubt that you are correct. I don't know anything about how these companies operate or how these items are produced, so I definitely don't pretend to.

***dorkidori_s13*** · 06-28-2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamryOnBronze

If you read my post again, you will see that I mentioned they are discontinued. 8)

briefly read thru post before clicking links... was still waking up. SHUT UP DAMON! lol

derass · 06-29-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

metal fenders are stamped using machines that cost more than you can imagine (think in the millions). our fenders also have brackets that require spot welding. the reason why no one has made metal fenders is simply due to tooling and production costs. theyre astronomical, hundreds and hundreds of sets would have to be produced at one time for ANY company who owns the machinery to even consider making the parts. the cost of the parts would most likely be in the $400-$600 retail range, and they simply wouldnt sell to justify the investment.

I know I'm late to the party, but you're right.

It would be easy to find a stamping shop to do the work, but it's the tooling (the die set) that's the obstacle. It's probably a 3-4 die part (1. draw 2. trim, 3. punch, 4. flange). Probably ~$1M for that die set. It's very unlikely that an aftermarket company would invest that.

That being said, reproduction panels for muscle cars have been made forever, and just recently someone started making AE86 rear quarter panels.

I always wonder what happens with the old OEM die sets. I should have asked when I work in an automotive stamping shop. I wonder if the old S-chassis dies have been destroyed, are in storage, sold off, lost somewhere etc.

feito · 06-29-2019, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derass

I always wonder what happens with the old OEM die sets. I should have asked when I work in an automotive stamping shop. I wonder if the old S-chassis dies have been destroyed, are in storage, sold off, lost somewhere etc.

Im wondering the same since I started reading this thread. That's a loooot of dies over the decades. Im guessing they must be returned to their manufacturers for recycling and making new ones. Makes no sense to keep them around taking up space when they're useless, but if so, that would be one big warehouse full of these babies.
Yeah, the whole supply and demand thing. Not a good investment, except... Im wondering if a little stamping plant in china with zero hazard prevention loosing a couple of employees a week would be interested in picking up the project. Then, maybe then they would be affordable. They would also include human parts and stuff.
After reading this thread I had to do some research in body panel stamping and watched some videos. Very complex and expensive operation indeed, even for simply panels. Even after removing all the robotics and automation, presses this big and multiple die sets got to be pretty expensive. Here's one that I like and kinda goes into detail about the dies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5-M5G-ZC2Y

***dorkidori_s13*** · 06-29-2019, 04:21 PM

steel/metal based dies are simply melted down and re-purposed. im still waiting on an email back from that company that was last producing them. if i dont hear anything back my monday, ill send them another message.

*TheRealSy90* · 06-29-2019, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

The R32 Heritage parts are not produced by Nissan.

Nissan discontinued them, Nismo is taking over production of it. It's probably made by the same factory but this is more of a customer service decision, since Nismo (especially Omori Factory) still refurbishes/refreshes R32s on a weekly fashion for customers in Japan.

From a purely cost perspective, Nissan is shifting the costs of holding onto these parts and associated production contract off their books and onto Nismo.

Nissan owns Nismo it’s the same damn books in the grand scheme of things.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mav1178 · 06-30-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Nissan owns Nismo it’s the same damn books in the grand scheme of things.

And it's also a separate set of financials, so at the end of the day as long as Nismo generates a profit overall then it has no impact on Nissan.

There is a cost to holding on to parts production for Nissan and this is reflected in quarterly and yearly statements to shareholders. Shifting this away from Nissan is necessary to show profitability.

***dorkidori_s13*** · 07-01-2019, 09:54 PM

UPDATE TO COMPANY POSTED ABOUT EARLIER:

I received an email back from the company that was making the fenders posted about earlier. Unfortunately.... they informed the molds have been deleted and destroyed

Im currently waiting on an answer to if new molds can be made again.

mav1178 · 07-02-2019, 12:31 PM

... we'll see if people are serious about OE genuine metal fenders.

A source I have in Asia still has the ability to order them. Not sure if they are genuine Nissan made in Japan or genuine Nissan made somewhere else in Asia, all I know is that it is genuine part numbers.

Lead time is about 150-180 days so we'll see if they show up or not... and we'll see who is actually serious about buying new metal fenders if it becomes available.

The worst part? No idea about pricing yet.

KA24DESOneThree · 08-15-2019, 10:00 AM

I buy between $100-150k in automotive sheet metal per year.

My clients pay just under $2500 for a factory 911 fender. The reproductions are about $1500 but require hours and hours of work to make fit. These numbers start to make sense when the restoration alone is $150k plus and the end product is worth $200k+, but for our cars, they just don't make sense.

I'm pretty tight with an aftermarket supplier with a hundred-ton stamping mill, but they're already at capacity for their Porsche and BMW projects. They also don't stamp anything as big or complex as fenders, though they could in stages and add welding/fixturing labor to the mix.

I'm hopeful about mav1178's source because my Silvia fenders are beat and, even though I'm going overfenders on my coupe build, I don't really want to pay someone to fix the ones that are currently on it for my hatch build. I want everything on that car perfect with zero filler.

DarkSlide77 · 09-13-2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupaDoopa

I don't know why Origin's or something similar would be a bad option for you unless you're looking for OEM metal. Producing a product like front widebody fenders in metal is going to cost a decent chunk. If $600 makes you want to faint, the price of their finished product - if it even ever happens - will probably kill you.

There is no market for it. 240 kids are cheap as shit and for what the fiberglass alternative costs, they're going to be blowing a ton of research and development on something that probably won't pay them back.

Not true. I would gladly pay for a new set of options silvia fenders. If you don’t want them, then don’t comment.

***dorkidori_s13*** · 09-13-2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSlide77

Not true. I would gladly pay for a new set of options silvia fenders. If you don’t want them, then don’t comment.

dude, you need to observe that there are some of us who have been in this scene a LONG time and are well aware of its current state. what SupaDoopa is stating is truth. hes just a little harsher with words than others...

if YOU can afford fenders in the $500-$600 range, then you are in the minority. hell, this morning some kid on Facebook DM'd me to tell me im a no name brand and my parts are over priced because Origin sells things on the cheap because their parts are Walmart brand quality pumped out of the Philippines. the MAJORITY of the 240sx wants cheap, period. cheap means that more expensive parts are only purchased by people who know how to manage their money, have careers and can afford more expensive things to build their cars with. the people can afford more expensive items are a very very small minority anymore. maybe 10-15% of the entire 240sx scene. 10-15% is NOT enough to warrant the investment on certain parts... one type of parts is brand new OE fenders.

i may work on making OE S13 and 180sx Fiberglass fenders in the coming years seeing as i will be introducing OE S14 kouki FRP fenders in the coming weeks. but until then, dont ever count on seeing metal replacements.

DarkSlide77 · 09-13-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamryOnBronze

I was tracking two auctions that were up at the same time from different sellers on Yahoo! about a year ago or so for brand new unused PS13 Silvia front fenders. I believe the total buyout price was something like $1200 USD before shipping, and Streeter quoted me about $1600 shipped to the states.

They ended up selling. There are definitely people out there willing to spend money on these types of things. The age old "S chassis kids are too cheap" copout is beginning to die out because it isn't really kids that are building and restoring S13s anymore- it is guys in their 30s that are slowly coming back to these cars after getting out of it a decade ago. I'm not saying "cheap kids" don't exist anymore, but I definitely feel like things have begun to shift.

I agree with this 100%. I’m not even 30 and I want to restore my car. I just dropped 680$ for a new set of Silvia headlights. The demand is definitely there, but people don’t mention it because they can’t even find decent Silvia fenders for less than 1,400$. And that’s really the only fenders I see right now. One set only. If they can make them for less than that, then people would buy them like crazy, but if it’s just going to be the same price, then ok maybe it’s not worth it.

DarkSlide77 · 09-13-2019, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

dude, you need to observe that there are some of us who have been in this scene a LONG time and are well aware of its current state. what SupaDoopa is stating is truth. hes just a little harsher with words than others...

if YOU can afford fenders in the $500-$600 range, then you are in the minority. hell, this morning some kid on Facebook DM'd me to tell me im a no name brand and my parts are over priced because Origin sells things on the cheap because their parts are Walmart brand quality pumped out of the Philippines. the MAJORITY of the 240sx wants cheap, period. cheap means that more expensive parts are only purchased by people who know how to manage their money, have careers and can afford more expensive things to build their cars with. the people can afford more expensive items are a very very small minority anymore. maybe 10-15% of the entire 240sx scene. 10-15% is NOT enough to warrant the investment on certain parts... one type of parts is brand new OE fenders.

i may work on making OE S13 and 180sx Fiberglass fenders in the coming years seeing as i will be introducing OE S14 kouki FRP fenders in the coming weeks. but until then, dont ever count on seeing metal replacements.

Yeah I see your point. I thought about deleting that comment as I realized I came off a bit too harsh/blunt myself. I didn’t like seeing anyone saying anything negative about it and was hoping everyone would be on board to encourage the manufacturer lol. But I do still believe there’s a slightly bigger demand than people think. Every single guy I know spends Thousands on his 240. I only know one guy who’s cheap and they all run aftermarket fiberglass fenders like I’m about to. I know we’d all have metal fenders if they were more affordable because no one I know even likes the fiberglass fenders. Hope you do make them some day. Wish you Good luck

NashT · 09-13-2019, 08:32 PM

I finally found a "good" set of oe fenders, $800 shipped.
Worth every cent to me

JDM240z · 09-14-2019, 12:15 PM

I remember the days when a full Sil Front was 1k at best. Man I’m old. Drift tax is just ridiculous these days. That’s not to say I wouldn’t try a set of china metal reproduction fenders, it just seems composite reproductions are the only way to go at a reasonable cost. Good luck with the search for a manufacturer. Would be nice to have another option.

FRpilot · 11-01-2019, 06:48 PM

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/niss...4-skyline-gtr/

this is interesting

***dorkidori_s13*** · 11-01-2019, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRpilot

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/niss...4-skyline-gtr/

this is interesting

aaaaaaaaaaaaand that costs LOTS of money... 240sx owners wont pay that sort of premium anymore. hard to swallow pill!

mav1178 · 12-05-2019, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

... we'll see if people are serious about OE genuine metal fenders.

A source I have in Asia still has the ability to order them. Not sure if they are genuine Nissan made in Japan or genuine Nissan made somewhere else in Asia, all I know is that it is genuine part numbers.

Lead time is about 150-180 days so we'll see if they show up or not... and we'll see who is actually serious about buying new metal fenders if it becomes available.

The worst part? No idea about pricing yet.

I just got an update, the fenders I ordered (genuine S13 Silvia L/R fenders) are inbound and have an estimated arrival of Jan/Feb 2020.

It will probably be over $1200 for the pair landed in the US. Plus whatever shipping to you.

Once I get the invoice I'll post up details and how to buy, let's see who will put their money where their mouth is.

There will be 10 sets of these available for purchase.

-alex

***dorkidori_s13*** · 12-06-2019, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

I just got an update, the fenders I ordered (genuine S13 Silvia L/R fenders) are inbound and have an estimated arrival of Jan/Feb 2020.

It will probably be over $1200 for the pair landed in the US. Plus whatever shipping to you.

Once I get the invoice I'll post up details and how to buy, let's see who will put their money where their mouth is.

There will be 10 sets of these available for purchase.

-alex

ill be very curious about these when the arrive (along with the details of how to obtain them).

tuzzio · 12-06-2019, 08:08 AM

Im interested in more details and an exact price. Fuckin YOLO.
PM me if you don't make the info public.

SR20DETsilvia · 12-06-2019, 08:58 AM

I'm in for a set of fenders. I missed out on the last ones I could find so.. not missing these ones.

S14rebuild · 12-06-2019, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

I just got an update, the fenders I ordered (genuine S13 Silvia L/R fenders) are inbound and have an estimated arrival of Jan/Feb 2020.

It will probably be over $1200 for the pair landed in the US. Plus whatever shipping to you.

Once I get the invoice I'll post up details and how to buy, let's see who will put their money where their mouth is.

There will be 10 sets of these available for purchase.

-alex

Most important thing is...PICS! please i gotta these mint/ new fenders

crash n' burn · 12-06-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

It will probably be over $1200 for the pair landed in the US. Plus whatever shipping to you.

I mean, you got people like JDMHookup asking $600 for a used fender (+$220 shipping). Regardless of how hilariously over priced that is; if I'd be able to get new fenders for the same price or less; that'd be my go to

mav1178 · 12-06-2019, 11:56 AM

Pics will be posted once it arrives, but since the PO took so long to fulfill I'm not posting exact info until I get a landed invoice.

It's still sitting in Asia so not yet shipped from there, but I've already gotten a heads up about the order.

If this works out, I will attempt to order another item that is long "discontinued": 180SX kouki front lip.

-alex

***dorkidori_s13*** · 12-06-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

If this works out, I will attempt to order another item that is long "discontinued": 180SX kouki front lip.

-alex

why? i already make them in urethane and mine is overall a better product given how poorly made the OEM lips are. the OE lips break/shatter just as easily as the fiberglass replicas since they were produced in a hard ABS plastic that does not hold up well to impacts (hence why they dont exist anymore). ive had people run mine over and drag them along the road with nothing more than a few scrapes and scratches.

why not source some OE 180sx fenders? those are in much higher demand (as i would like a brand new pair myself)

*TheRealSy90* · 12-06-2019, 01:43 PM

We really need 180sx fenders.

mav1178 · 12-06-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

why?

because if I can order metal fenders then that source is secure. getting 180SX/240SX fenders isn't an issue moving forward.

getting bumpers or lips is more of a test of whether it can be ordered or not, since the factory that would produce it is different than stamped sheet metal.

I'm essentially figuring out which types of parts are still available. Imagine if I can source S13 Silvia aero bumpers, new...

-alex

***dorkidori_s13*** · 12-06-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

because if I can order metal fenders then that source is secure. getting 180SX/240SX fenders isn't an issue moving forward.

getting bumpers or lips is more of a test of whether it can be ordered or not, since the factory that would produce it is different than stamped sheet metal.

I'm essentially figuring out which types of parts are still available. Imagine if I can source S13 Silvia aero bumpers, new...

-alex

why bother with lips or the bumper? again, i already make a superior version of the lip versus OEM. the OE S13 Aero Bumper can be easily in good shape if youre patient enough or you export a used one from Japan (and MOST of the OE Aero Bumpers that come up on YAJ are in great shape). Urethane replicas exist for the aero bumper all over the place... hell i was the first one to do it.

fenders are in demand, period! S13 hatch and coupe fenders are NEEDED! the lip + bumper are not. yeah, it might be nice to a very select few to buy a brand new bumper or lip, but to the majority, what is DESPERATELY needed is fenders.

06-28-2019, 12:16 PM	#61
*dorkidori_s13* ITS LISA'S FAULT!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas Age: 39 Posts: 7,332 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	shit, Nissan needs to send me the molds for the S13 aero bumper, 180sx zenki/chuki/kouki bumpers, all the side skirts and the chuki/kouki valances and all ill get all them bishes back into production via ABS plastic __________________ Bought something from me??? POST A REVIEW HERE!!!

06-29-2019, 04:21 PM	#66
*dorkidori_s13* ITS LISA'S FAULT!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas Age: 39 Posts: 7,332 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	steel/metal based dies are simply melted down and re-purposed. im still waiting on an email back from that company that was last producing them. if i dont hear anything back my monday, ill send them another message. __________________ Bought something from me??? POST A REVIEW HERE!!!

07-01-2019, 09:54 PM	#69
*dorkidori_s13* ITS LISA'S FAULT!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas Age: 39 Posts: 7,332 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	UPDATE TO COMPANY POSTED ABOUT EARLIER: I received an email back from the company that was making the fenders posted about earlier. Unfortunately.... they informed the molds have been deleted and destroyed Im currently waiting on an answer to if new molds can be made again. __________________ Bought something from me??? POST A REVIEW HERE!!!

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07-02-2019, 12:31 PM	#70
mav1178 Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hacienda Heights, CA 91745 Posts: 1,254 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	... we'll see if people are serious about OE genuine metal fenders. A source I have in Asia still has the ability to order them. Not sure if they are genuine Nissan made in Japan or genuine Nissan made somewhere else in Asia, all I know is that it is genuine part numbers. Lead time is about 150-180 days so we'll see if they show up or not... and we'll see who is actually serious about buying new metal fenders if it becomes available. The worst part? No idea about pricing yet.

08-15-2019, 10:00 AM	#71
KA24DESOneThree Nissanaholic! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SD County SoCal Age: 35 Posts: 2,441 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: KA24DESOneThree Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I buy between $100-150k in automotive sheet metal per year. My clients pay just under $2500 for a factory 911 fender. The reproductions are about $1500 but require hours and hours of work to make fit. These numbers start to make sense when the restoration alone is $150k plus and the end product is worth $200k+, but for our cars, they just don't make sense. I'm pretty tight with an aftermarket supplier with a hundred-ton stamping mill, but they're already at capacity for their Porsche and BMW projects. They also don't stamp anything as big or complex as fenders, though they could in stages and add welding/fixturing labor to the mix. I'm hopeful about mav1178's source because my Silvia fenders are beat and, even though I'm going overfenders on my coupe build, I don't really want to pay someone to fix the ones that are currently on it for my hatch build. I want everything on that car perfect with zero filler.

09-13-2019, 08:32 PM	#76
NashT Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Texas Age: 31 Posts: 175 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I finally found a "good" set of oe fenders, $800 shipped. Worth every cent to me

09-14-2019, 12:15 PM	#77
JDM240z Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dirty South Posts: 80 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I remember the days when a full Sil Front was 1k at best. Man I’m old. Drift tax is just ridiculous these days. That’s not to say I wouldn’t try a set of china metal reproduction fenders, it just seems composite reproductions are the only way to go at a reasonable cost. Good luck with the search for a manufacturer. Would be nice to have another option.

12-06-2019, 08:08 AM	#82
tuzzio Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Western Mass. Posts: 2,254 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Im interested in more details and an exact price. Fuckin YOLO. PM me if you don't make the info public.

12-06-2019, 08:58 AM	#83
SR20DETsilvia Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Age: 33 Posts: 72 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I'm in for a set of fenders. I missed out on the last ones I could find so.. not missing these ones.

12-06-2019, 11:56 AM	#86
mav1178 Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hacienda Heights, CA 91745 Posts: 1,254 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Pics will be posted once it arrives, but since the PO took so long to fulfill I'm not posting exact info until I get a landed invoice. It's still sitting in Asia so not yet shipped from there, but I've already gotten a heads up about the order. If this works out, I will attempt to order another item that is long "discontinued": 180SX kouki front lip. -alex