Baka Sama

Its a good read and a great idea on exactly what your saying. Increasing sales tax and getting rid of income tax.




On Topic....

No I havent watched the movie yet but I will when it comes to video. His movies are entertaining and makes you atleast think about current issues.

Its interesting how people like ThatGuy are quick to jump down someones throat about Moore and how hes full of lies and propaganda to feed on your fears. But this administration does the same thing only worse and no one says a thing about it. Take a recent example of how Cheney (The fucking vice president) is saying how hes not part of the executive branch, so he doesn't have to comply with executive secrecy rules. wtf?!

Im not a fan of Michael Moore but I rather paint a life size picture of him on my car than ever ride around with a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker.

S14DB

Wait, I can't hate Moore AND Cheney?

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Baka Sama

Nope.

~~~~~~~~~~

HalveBlue

Of course not.

In this world there is only the Right and the Left. Black and White.

So make up your mind, hippie.

drifting_changed_mylife

im glad SOME people agree with me lol

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drifting_changed_mylife

now back to the movie... i watch it, i liked it.. i went to see that movie cuz i think he makes decent movies.. i am very open minded and belive me if thatguy or mrclark1 made a movie about how much shit michael moore is full of, belive me i would be 1st online.

and if you havent seen the movie please dont post cuz thats what this thread is all about in the 1st place. you guys cant tell me socilizing medicine is mot a bad idea. i work in medical billing and this stuff can ruine lives! for example... thatguy lets say god forbid, u get injured and u have no health insurence, and it ends up that u need a operation.... do u know that 1 1/2 hr is the or will cost you 3,697.00 and 5 hrs in the recovery room is around 3,513.00, not including the drugs to get you to sleep and the doctors fee and depending on the procedure your bill in total can run up to 80,000 for that 1 procedure????? can you aford that?

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Phlip

I run a fine line, here... I have been presented with NO reasons to like Cheney, but at least Michael Moore is entertaining and makes a good point from time to time.
Why not? I believe they call it "progressive"
See above
See, but he has insurance, and so do I... One time I was in the hospital for 16 days, 5 of which was spent in a morphine-induced coma, had 2 MRIs and various other tests and enough drugs to break Columbia, it felt like. I had surgery to wire my broken jaw shut, then I was sent home. 3 days after arriving home, I got a bill for FIFTY SEVEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS, mostly for the drugs. 5 days after that, I got an amended bill for $275 (yes, two hundred and seventy five). 3 years later, a friend of mine works for United Healthcare and did a little recon, I would find that $57k I would have had to pay was only worth $13k when they had to pay it?
I think before we begin looking into socializing healthcare, something should be done about the gouging of people who obviously CAN'T afford shit. If socializing is the answer, then the answer needs to be a little better than what was presented. I am in agreement with TheWolf, on this one, and I don't pay NEAR what he does a month in insurance either.

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steve shadows

You dont study law much? Const History? anything like that?

You cant lie about statistics or patch bold faced lies together to make a claim, They have to have some backing.

You say we live under an administration of liars? Like Clinton was any better?

Its selective political hatred.

If the current president was green party you would spread your legs.


and in regards to saying this forum is "rigth wing"

well no, but i think people who work on cars and fix things that break themselves and build their cars with their money and blood sweat and tears tend to agree on many virtues and ethical fiscal responsibilities advocated by the right.

When your car breaks does the govt fix it? No you have to do it yourself. Do you buy parts from the govt? Fuck no, no one would trust parts made with the lowest liability burden on the producer of those goods ie the govt.

So why would you fucking trust them to manage healthcare. If they can't manage invading a dust bowl shithouse like Iraq we can entrust "American Beuracratic institutions" to promote advances in cutting edge competitve market medicine?

There is a reason why every other country flys their leaders here for invasive medical procedures at the higher cost but great wealth of technological and medical know-how and leading edge procedures. These procedures were not born from burdening medical companies and forcing them to combine into a govt non-competitive, psudo-merit based system where no competiton in the capitalist sense is available to fuel further advances and landmark discoveries.

Look at any attempt at socialized medicine or socialism systems in the last 500 years. They have all lead to complacency within the nation in regards to economy and innovation, hence you get these mixed systems or psudo-socialist regimes taking their place, like Stalinist Russia and after, Curretn Chinease govt, which by all accounts are not very socialist at all.

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Baka Sama

No its not selective political hatred. Clinton may have been a liar like ALL presidents but this admin is by far the worst I have seen in my lifetime. I expect to be lied to to some extent but this admin is just full of BS. The worst part is that everytime someone calls them out on it, they find some way to throw the blame on someone else or come up with some rediculous way of not getting questioned. Im so sick of hearing Right wing this or Left wing that.. We're all the same!

Im not saying that the government needs to take 100% control over health care, but our health care system is failing and SOMETHING needs to be done about it. I work in the ED and last week at work I watched a lady in her early 30's crying over the phone with her husband. Her 5yo son had fell one story and she was trying to decide if they had enough money for the CT scan and xrays. She obviously loved her son but imagine the situation she was in. She had ins but still couldnt afford the deductible for it.

Then.. on the same day a mexican guy came in who was hurt "working construction at home" (12am). The guy gave us a fake name, no ssn, a fake address, and was treated and sent home. Sometimes it pays to be illegal.

drifting_changed_mylife

^^ your so right the way the health system is ran, you have to choose. you shouldnt have to. i really wish ppl would just go watch the movie. a socialist health system works. we are the only modernized country that dosent have that kind of system. france, london, canada, cuba and even IRAQ has that kind of system.

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s13rookie

last time i checked, london is a city, not a country. I guess a socialist education sucks too huh?

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drifting_changed_mylife

u know what i mean dick head

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lok

I finally figured out that OP stands for original poster.

Everyone can skew facts and stats but it is just one persons opinion and they are entitled to it.

I think the only way to change things now is to have a revolution.

To bad the world economy would crash if the U.S. fell into civil unrest or maybe not.

Just my op though.

s13rookie

That is true, but when people pass their opinions off as facts, and fabricate details to support said "facts" that problems arise.

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lok

very true but people have to be willing to check into things on there own but like it was said before that would involve real work.

it is easier just to take things at face value, which most people do.

Ian

DOWN WITH AMERICA!!!


LET THE UPRISING BEGIN!


Nah fuck that, i'm too lazy for an uprising...I'm just gonna move to a different country that's cooler

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steve shadows

from what I hear this place beats everywhere else.

everywhere else is alreay 3x the police state.

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Ian

Meh...I donno.


I'm just tired of BS politics here...I feel like England would be better...even though it's ugly as hell there


Maybe Italy...somewhere off in the countryside where it's nice and warm all the time

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Baka Sama

I hear New Zealand is nice this time of year lol

Farzam

I dont' see why we're talking about it.

I don't think e-debating will do anything.

If you have a belief try and win over the people who need to be won over and achieve it.

Self heroics CAN be a good thing.

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jilo

[/quote] See, but he has insurance, and so do I... One time I was in the hospital for 16 days, 5 of which was spent in a morphine-induced coma, had 2 MRIs and various other tests and enough drugs to break Columbia, it felt like. I had surgery to wire my broken jaw shut, then I was sent home. 3 days after arriving home, I got a bill for FIFTY SEVEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS, mostly for the drugs. 5 days after that, I got an amended bill for $275 (yes, two hundred and seventy five). 3 years later, a friend of mine works for United Healthcare and did a little recon, I would find that $57k I would have had to pay was only worth $13k when they had to pay it?
I think before we begin looking into socializing healthcare, something should be done about the gouging of people who obviously CAN'T afford shit. If socializing is the answer, then the answer needs to be a little better than what was presented. I am in agreement with TheWolf, on this one, and I don't pay NEAR what he does a month in insurance either.[/quote]




bingo, last year while moving my roll away tool box the damn thing flipped over on me and almost ripped my middle finger off. i went and waited in the emergency room, which by the way is just a place to wait at my hospital.
got myself i think 7 stitches and was out in quick time.

later i got a check for roughly 1000$ and flipped shit. see my hospital has a program for people without money and i filled out for it (i was without a job at the time). well after seeing that dollar amount i planned on not paying it and i still plan on not paying it. now im glad i flicked that piece of finger fat at the wall to see if it would stick! (it did, i wonder who found it?)

i for one dont trust the medical industry very much due to what happened to my mother. she had a fucking quack for a doctor and ended up getting perscribed tons of pills that made her crazy. i mean she literally ate pills for breakfast and dinner, like enough to make a damn sandwich out of. i can remember when i was little, asking her why she did it and she told me if mommy dosent eat these shell die. that does some shit to a kid. i can also remember a few years ago when her addiction got to its worst point and coming home with my girlfriend to find her convulsing on the floor because she was so fucked up. that definatley does something to ya. she still owes tons of money to the hospital for all the times shes been in and will continue to owe untill she dies.

my girlfreind is another perfect case. she has chrons disease and when she has a flare up she absolutely neeeds to get to the hospital. the amout they charge her is staggering. although she is sitting beside me as i type this, im not even gonna ask her for a ball park amount for fear of making her cry.
even worse is the way they treat her when she is there. i cant count how many times ive wanted to hit people for just straight up hurting her to try and gain useless info. if your intestines were swelled shut and one side had a whole shitload of stuff under pressure, would you enjoy someone poking around your belly trying to see if it hurts? she crying and screaming from the pain and youre gonna poe her in the fucking stomach? shes going for an xray in 2 godamn minutes wtf? i need to stop typing before i get really mad.

this situation has taught me soo much about living with a disorder. i consider myself very lucky and almost non deserving of the way i heal.
i dont go to the doctor, i dont have health insurance and dont want it. dont need it. when i get hurt i take care of it, when i get sick i take care of it. i heal very fast and living with megan (gf) i almost feel like an asshole for my body being better than hers. its hard to see someone you love in pain and know theres absolutely nothing you can do about it. i keep telling her that someday well find something, just to ease her mind.

the way i see it is, going to the doctor is like going to a mechanic in the way that its always better to know the situaton youre going into. not all doctors are bad but there are a pack of assholes that dont mind turning you out for your money.

moral of the story: i dont trust doctors so i watch my ass around them, they have power.

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eastcoastS14

meh your first comment is questionable, I have found that this administration has lied pretty much outright to the american people about who said this or that and whatever else....this administration seems to feel that as long as they repeat something enough it becomes the truth, after all stats are only false if someone is willing to go check them and contradict you. As for clinton I am not under the illusion that clinton told the truth about everything infact I will admit that any politician republican or democrat lies, however according to TIME magazine I believe Bush has been named the worst president in US history....and he also has a 20something% approval rating, maybe 30% actually. Now the govt obviously doesnt help you fix your car if its broken...but wouldnt it be nice if they did? The truth is that we all fix our cars because we can afford it, while other cannot. Same deal with health care, nationalizing health care would help both the privaleged and less fortunate to recieve the care that they need. I believe that the US should be a country of brothers, that Ill pay more taxes to help you out when you need it and youll pay more to help me when I need it rather than every man for himself. I feel like people in the US are so distant and have this "well fuck the other guy" attitude about things. As for the foreign leaders argument, it's interesting that you would say that because interestingly enough the US has the best extreme medicince system. We are very good at treating extremely rare diseases and preforming ridiculously complicated operations. Unfortunately, that is not what the majority of medicine is and we have a pretty poor healthcare system compared to other nations when it comes to treating the common cold etc. So yeah we can seperate conjoined twins but europe is better if you need a cat scan or have the flu. We should all be open to change and aknowledge the fact that maybe the US isnt the best at absolutely everything...Our nation needs to learn how to take care of our fellow man rather than turn a profit from absolutely everything including peoples pain and suffering

kuramaya

Your not alone Brother. I am A PROUD DEMOCRAT!!!!

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articdragon192

Want better medical? Privatize it all. Competition between companies leads to advancement and lower prices. And from what I know, "socialist" medical systems suck and have a major waiting list of patients. Try to make an appointment in England and see how long it takes for a doctor to see you.

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S14DB

Hell just goto Canadia on vacation and get injured. You'll be running for the border.

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articdragon192

Lol, isn't Canada just as bad?

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