Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyX2
I'm not seeing the roughness you guys are talking about on the turbine side. Assuming the inlet is as smooth as the inside of the outlet in the picture, it looks pretty smooth to me. The compressor side is rough, yes, but as I was saying before, a rough compressor outlet would be good to promote turbulent flow, wouldn't it? I was agreeing before that the turbine side should be smooth but the compressor side is a different story.
Also, I don't think the numbers are as far off as you're claiming, Def, it's $1850 for a V band EWG 7163 and $2100 for a T4 IWG 7163 at Full-Race. Comparing that to the Garrett without a turbine housing isn't really fair either. Depending on the housing, that's going to up the price $100-250. So it's more like $1850-2100 vs $1400-1650. And that's without counting the money saved by the inclusion of a boost control solenoid, BOV and IWG that's good enough to not require an EWG. Not needing to buy wastegate(s) is a big cost savings and BOVs aren't cheap either.
I'm also going to have to disagree that they're very, very similar in performance.
Look at all that extra torque down low vs a 3076 while still matching it up top. This was on a prototype too. They've since tweaked the turbine geometry further and upped the power estimates by 50hp.
I'd love to see a head to head comparison with a GTX2867 or GTX3071/76 on the same turbine housing. Measure time from full vac to full boost starting around 3-4k (to test response coming out of a corner) on all of them and I bet the 7163 would get there much quicker than both while making more power than the 2867 and matching the 3071/76 in power. To quote the Madzdaspeed 6 tester again, "The spool is unreal. We went from vacuum to 22 psi in 400-500 RPM ANY time we hit the gas above 2400 RPM." I don't think a GTX could do that. You just can't ignore the inertial savings of the Ti wheel, and now BW has a geometry advantage too. I don't see how they could be very close with a distinct physical material advantage for BW. But currently there's very little info, so it's a lot of educated guessing and extrapolating the little data we have. |
I'd sure expect a whiz-bang EFR to outspool a decade+ old GT3076R that has a pretty bad wheel diameter mismatch from the outset.
The EFRs aren't junk, but I've seen a ton of tests pitting them against old old Garrett stuff. The few comparisons I've seen between modern turbos basically shows very very little difference between them. As you get billet compressor wheels on both which up the flow for the inertia and wheel diameter, which then helps out with the spool, lower backpressure etc.
Don't forget that inertia is proportional to radius^2. So while BW might be using slightly bigger turbine wheels to help generate torque and help spool, it also puts the inertia much closer to the more compact inconel wheels that Garrett uses. The new turbine material does have advantages, but it's very very small increases - nothing drastic like it's marketed to be.