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Originally Posted by Howlermonkey
I mentioned only showroom stock racing in my post because suspension geometry is as delivered from the factory and the success of the Z31 is about dead even with the S13 with the Z31 having a slight edge.
If you want to compare the Z31 to the S13 in all forms of road racing, the Z31 has more championships and race wins by a huge margin.
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Showroom stock racing is the only thing applicable to this argument.
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Now that you're slagging the S30 to the Z32, then you are out of touch since they have more race victories than any other car save for the porsche 911 series.
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Read my post again. I hardly "slagged" either of those cars. I LOVE s-30's. Their chasis does suck though. It is mushy as all hell and the weight distribution is waaaaayyyyyyy off. Now z-32's just need a vq35 dropped in them, that would get rid of most of their weight problem.
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I refuse to be hard on the S13 on a S13 site but I spent 20 years working on them and they have all the same problems the Z cars you slagged when racing them in stock form......other than light weight.
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Why? I don't have a problem telling the truth about the s-13 chasis. The front suspension sucks BAD, the rear suspension has an assload too much anti-squat (as does the z-32), and the rear suspension also gains too much toe under compression. The rear suspension can be somewhat fixed by using an s-14 or s-15 rear subframe, they have much less anti-squat and less toe gain, but there isn't much you can do with the front suspension.
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Hell......I like the S13 and put my first L28et in one back in 1994 when racepar was 11 years old.
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What's your point? Are you supposed to have more racing related experience then me or something? Hell when I was 11 I was travelling all over the southwest with my dad to work on his formula atlantic car at SCCA events. I have seen what cars are competitive and what cars arent. Neither the s-13 or the z-31 were very competitive from what I have seen. To tell you the truth I really didn't see very many s-30's out there winning races either. Now those damn CRX's on the other hand.......
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The s30 is the best chassis of any of the nissans in stock form for one reason.
They have less camber and toe change than any of the nissans in the rear suspension.
That's why they still post faster improved touring laptimes than the S13 in spite of having inadequate brakes.
In order to make any of the other nissans perform (s130, z31, s13 and 14, z32...etc), you need to stiffen the rear suspension to the point that rear suspension doesn't move at all.
Any movement induces unacceptable toe and camber change which reduces your rear tire's contact patch and that's why racers limited to stock suspension pickup points and geometry run springs as high as 800 in the rear of these cars.
Any suspension will work if you don't let it.
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I disagree with this assessment. I do not see camber change as much of a problem (as long as it is negative camber) and toe change can be worked around (as long as it gains toe-in). From my experience with the s-13 chasis you want softer rear springs, not stiffer. You simply run little static camber and toe to compensate. An s-13 with 800lb rear springs would be borderline un-driveable. I have heard of the datsun 510's, porsche 944's, and the FC rx-7's needing un-godly stiff rear springs (all of which have semi trailing arm rear suspension and gain toe-out and positive camber under compression), but this is the first I have heard of the s-chasis (as it toes in and gains negative camber under compression, which isn't such a problem).