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aaronlosey · 01-04-2011, 07:16 PM

Here is the home post, with more pics and stuff: http://www.fabricatedmotorsports.com...n_machine.html

----------------

First of all, thanks again to Power Fab Automotive for letting us use their facilities for this test! They are a full service shop in the Houston, TX area that does fab, tuning, and pretty much everything. They work on imports and domestics.

Ok, now that I have written several of these posts about our Texas cars, I can’t help but start to compare them and draw conclusions. We have 3 AE86 cars in this comparo, and they are all very different. Below is a copy of all three AE86 dyno sheets, give them a look, and notice how different the power delivery of each car is.
Will’s dyno sheet *http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...-T_Corolla.pdf
Brad’s dyno sheet *http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...V8_Corolla.pdf
Robert’s dyno sheet *http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...GE_Corolla.pdf

Interestingly the turbo 4AG makes a good 70 peak whp more than the V8 car, and even after it drops off drastically on the top end, the turbo car is still making more hp and tq from 5200 rpm till after 7000 rpm. The turbo 4 banger wasn’t running very well, and was cutting out badly on the dyno during its runs. I think will said his car ran out of gas or something on the dyno, but regardless, it has an effective power band of 5200 rpm till about redline, or about 2000 rpm total. The V8 car, while making less hp, has a power band of about 5000 + rpm. It should also be noted the turbo car runs on race gas. To create a larger power band on the 4 banger one could use a slightly smaller turbo, or increase the redline of the motor. It looks like the hp isn’t choked out by cam or turbo sizing at redline ( it is dying off for some other reason it looks like, not a limitation of the cam or turbo ), so without any other changes but raising the redline you would increase the power band a bit, maybe to 8000 rpm. I personally always took my stock motor, stock head SR20DET motors to 8000 rpm as soon as I put a Power FC on them, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here. They held together great by the way. That would get the turbo motor up to a 2800 rpm power band, increasing the power band by a whopping 40%! One thing that can be extrapolated from looking at Will’s dyno sheet is his car must be very hard to maintain a controlled/desired amount of wheel speed. A linear power band allows the driver to drive the car with an intentional amount of wheel speed vs ground speed. This car doesn’t have a linear power band. What that means is a driver should be able to drift with 10% greater wheel speed vs ground speed if he wants, or 20%, or any other percentage. By modulating this, greater forward momentum can be coaxed out of the tires, more precise placement of the car can be had, and the overall control of the car can be greater. Less shifting can be performed when it is detrimental to the run, so YOU can choose when you use your shifts, not the power band of the car. Will’s power band demands that you drive on the engines schedule, which comes with both good and bad points. It can make the driving more exciting by making it a bit more frantic, but it can also create more opportunities for mistakes to happen, and it can increase the amount of runs to nail a track and time shifts, gearing, throttle, clutch kicks, etc. I personally think there is merit in both types of setups, and certain types of cars and drivers look better in one setup than the other. Ryan Tureck looked awesome in the turbo Solstice, and I will miss watching that setup a lot. Sam’s super charged viper on the other hand was pretty darn boring to watch because the excess of tq made his car boring to watch. Drivers like JR do a fantastic job of driving for the crowd with his V8, and is very exciting to watch. I also thought Dai in the GTO at Red Bull Long Beach was amazing.

Anyways, back to the little green machine. It weighed in at 2032 lbs, with a front weight distribution of 56.1% to the front, which would probably come down about a point with gas in the tank, and bring the weight up closer to just below 2100 lbs. Pretty darn light! There isn’t a lot of weight you could easily take out of this car at this point, so it probably isn’t going to get a lot lighter than this. It already has plastic side and rear windows, and is very stripped out. Interestingly enough, this car was only one point off of Brad’s distribution when we measured it, although Will didn’t fill his tank like he was told to. There might be up to 2% difference between them overall, and between 230-300 pounds total. 300 whp in a 20XX pound car has to pretty fun!

The car has 53.6 degrees of steering angle, which actually makes it the second biggest angle car in the group, which is pretty impressive. This is very nice to have when you have such a small wheel base and peaky motor setup. It helps keep the car manageable.

I have been driving with Will for some time now, and the car works very well at times, and other times it is a bit of a liability to the driver, much like my own S13. Will is a good driver, but the car is often the limiting factor. The small power band leaves little room for competitively driving the car if everything isn’t perfect in the engine bay, while the simplicity and redundancy of Brad’s eight cylinders can run with one or more plug not firing. In a time when most AE86 drivers in D1 and FD have gone to SR20s and S2000 motors, it is interesting to see someone keep playing with the 4AG still. I have always been amazed at how tiny they are, and how much they have been raced in the past. Will has a very neat car, and one that epitomizes the “tuner” idea of carefully tweaking the engine in the car until you get what you want. Most of Texas is the opposite nowadays, dropping in overkill V8s simply so they don’t have to worry about how well the motor runs. 7 out of 8 is good enough for us, but 3 out of 4 isn’t, so we end up with big honking motors and 2700 lb S13s.

To add my own two cents to this chapter, if I were to build an AE86, which I am not, I would like to see someone around here do a Beams motor or an S2000 motor. I heard a rumor that a certain Houston shop was going to help Will put an S2000 heart in his car. The linear power band, higher rpm, blah blah blah seems like it would be a beautiful fit to this car, and help balance out the overall chassis while bumping up the displacement a bit and adding some reliability. The 4AG, while a really neat motor, just doesn’t have a lot of displacement, and I think one of these motors would be a smooth and positive progression of Will’s car into something even better than it is now. I love the fact that he has taken his car so far, and kept it so long. The car gets better every season, as does the driver!

01-04-2011, 07:16 PM	#4
aaronlosey Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: texas Posts: 321 Trader Rating: (2)	Here is the home post, with more pics and stuff: http://www.fabricatedmotorsports.com...n_machine.html ---------------- First of all, thanks again to Power Fab Automotive for letting us use their facilities for this test! They are a full service shop in the Houston, TX area that does fab, tuning, and pretty much everything. They work on imports and domestics. Ok, now that I have written several of these posts about our Texas cars, I can’t help but start to compare them and draw conclusions. We have 3 AE86 cars in this comparo, and they are all very different. Below is a copy of all three AE86 dyno sheets, give them a look, and notice how different the power delivery of each car is. Will’s dyno sheet http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...-T_Corolla.pdf Brad’s dyno sheet http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...V8_Corolla.pdf Robert’s dyno sheet *http://fabricatedmotorsports.com/ima...GE_Corolla.pdf Interestingly the turbo 4AG makes a good 70 peak whp more than the V8 car, and even after it drops off drastically on the top end, the turbo car is still making more hp and tq from 5200 rpm till after 7000 rpm. The turbo 4 banger wasn’t running very well, and was cutting out badly on the dyno during its runs. I think will said his car ran out of gas or something on the dyno, but regardless, it has an effective power band of 5200 rpm till about redline, or about 2000 rpm total. The V8 car, while making less hp, has a power band of about 5000 + rpm. It should also be noted the turbo car runs on race gas. To create a larger power band on the 4 banger one could use a slightly smaller turbo, or increase the redline of the motor. It looks like the hp isn’t choked out by cam or turbo sizing at redline ( it is dying off for some other reason it looks like, not a limitation of the cam or turbo ), so without any other changes but raising the redline you would increase the power band a bit, maybe to 8000 rpm. I personally always took my stock motor, stock head SR20DET motors to 8000 rpm as soon as I put a Power FC on them, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t work here. They held together great by the way. That would get the turbo motor up to a 2800 rpm power band, increasing the power band by a whopping 40%! One thing that can be extrapolated from looking at Will’s dyno sheet is his car must be very hard to maintain a controlled/desired amount of wheel speed. A linear power band allows the driver to drive the car with an intentional amount of wheel speed vs ground speed. This car doesn’t have a linear power band. What that means is a driver should be able to drift with 10% greater wheel speed vs ground speed if he wants, or 20%, or any other percentage. By modulating this, greater forward momentum can be coaxed out of the tires, more precise placement of the car can be had, and the overall control of the car can be greater. Less shifting can be performed when it is detrimental to the run, so YOU can choose when you use your shifts, not the power band of the car. Will’s power band demands that you drive on the engines schedule, which comes with both good and bad points. It can make the driving more exciting by making it a bit more frantic, but it can also create more opportunities for mistakes to happen, and it can increase the amount of runs to nail a track and time shifts, gearing, throttle, clutch kicks, etc. I personally think there is merit in both types of setups, and certain types of cars and drivers look better in one setup than the other. Ryan Tureck looked awesome in the turbo Solstice, and I will miss watching that setup a lot. Sam’s super charged viper on the other hand was pretty darn boring to watch because the excess of tq made his car boring to watch. Drivers like JR do a fantastic job of driving for the crowd with his V8, and is very exciting to watch. I also thought Dai in the GTO at Red Bull Long Beach was amazing. Anyways, back to the little green machine. It weighed in at 2032 lbs, with a front weight distribution of 56.1% to the front, which would probably come down about a point with gas in the tank, and bring the weight up closer to just below 2100 lbs. Pretty darn light! There isn’t a lot of weight you could easily take out of this car at this point, so it probably isn’t going to get a lot lighter than this. It already has plastic side and rear windows, and is very stripped out. Interestingly enough, this car was only one point off of Brad’s distribution when we measured it, although Will didn’t fill his tank like he was told to. There might be up to 2% difference between them overall, and between 230-300 pounds total. 300 whp in a 20XX pound car has to pretty fun! The car has 53.6 degrees of steering angle, which actually makes it the second biggest angle car in the group, which is pretty impressive. This is very nice to have when you have such a small wheel base and peaky motor setup. It helps keep the car manageable. I have been driving with Will for some time now, and the car works very well at times, and other times it is a bit of a liability to the driver, much like my own S13. Will is a good driver, but the car is often the limiting factor. The small power band leaves little room for competitively driving the car if everything isn’t perfect in the engine bay, while the simplicity and redundancy of Brad’s eight cylinders can run with one or more plug not firing. In a time when most AE86 drivers in D1 and FD have gone to SR20s and S2000 motors, it is interesting to see someone keep playing with the 4AG still. I have always been amazed at how tiny they are, and how much they have been raced in the past. Will has a very neat car, and one that epitomizes the “tuner” idea of carefully tweaking the engine in the car until you get what you want. Most of Texas is the opposite nowadays, dropping in overkill V8s simply so they don’t have to worry about how well the motor runs. 7 out of 8 is good enough for us, but 3 out of 4 isn’t, so we end up with big honking motors and 2700 lb S13s. To add my own two cents to this chapter, if I were to build an AE86, which I am not, I would like to see someone around here do a Beams motor or an S2000 motor. I heard a rumor that a certain Houston shop was going to help Will put an S2000 heart in his car. The linear power band, higher rpm, blah blah blah seems like it would be a beautiful fit to this car, and help balance out the overall chassis while bumping up the displacement a bit and adding some reliability. The 4AG, while a really neat motor, just doesn’t have a lot of displacement, and I think one of these motors would be a smooth and positive progression of Will’s car into something even better than it is now. I love the fact that he has taken his car so far, and kept it so long. The car gets better every season, as does the driver!