Writeup: custom Koni and Ground Control coilover setup assembly
 

Finally collected all the parts for a koni/ground control custom setup. . . and now that I finished taking the california bar exam, I have some time to mess with it.

There's a billion threads asking about what coilovers are best - from all I've heard from credible posters, this is the best possible setup. Comfort, adjustability, performance, price. The only thing that held me back was having to gather random parts and assemble, but now that I have all the parts and saw how it came together, it really wasn't that hard.

First off, parts checklist and pricing:
Fronts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...IMG_3772-1.jpg

1. Custom housings - $375/pair
These are custom made by Veilside180sx (Richard) who posts here and on his website NissanRoadRacing.com They can be made for S13/S14 and optional z32 uprights in the rear. I believe he can do different colors.

2. Gland Nuts - (included in Veilside180sx's housings)
These secure the Koni inserts inside of the housing.

3. Koni 8611-1257 Race Insert - $299/each (2 needed)
The heart of the setup - infinitely adjustable (2.5 turns) rebound on top, 12-clicks of compression adjustment on the bottom. Purchased from Shox.com

4. Ground Control coilover sleeves ($399/set including springs)
Height adjustment of about 3 inches IIRC. Come with Eibach springs in any spring rate/height you want. When ordering tell them you have Konis to get the proper internal diameter (ID). They also include top mounts, but I didn't use the fronts. Purchased from Shox.com

5. Eibach springs (included in GCs)
I used 2.5inch internal diameter and 7inch height, with 450 lbs/in front and 350 lbs/in rear spring rates. Roughly 8/6 in kg/mm.

6. Rubber o-rings (included in GCs)
O-rings that go around the coilover housing between the GC sleeves to prevent the sleeves from rotating when using the perch adjustment.

7. Bumpstop (comes with Koni inserts)

8. Flanged sleeve bearing (Mcmaster Part #6659K21) - $1.23/each, 4 needed
Required to center the Koni shaft within the Tein camber plate bearing. Flanged edge also serves as added surface area for the bearing to rest atop the Vorshlag top hat. Info: METRIC SAE 841 BRONZE FLANGED-SLEEVE BEARING, FOR 14 MM SHAFT DIAMETER, 18 MM OD, 14 MM LENGTH

EDIT: Get Mcmaster part # 6658K22 instead. That is a non-flanged sleeve bearing, 14mm ID, 18mm OD, 18mm length.

9. Locking nut (comes with Konis)
Secures the top of the coilover assembly.

10. Vorshlag spring perch - $75/pair from
These go atop the spring and below the Tein camber plate. These spring perches include a sealed bearing. The Tein camber plate has a spherical bearing that allows the coilover to deflect, but it is not designed for rotational forces which occur when the coilover's working. The Vorshlag spring perch can support the weight of the car while allowing the components to rotate safely. Purchased from RRT

11. Tein Pillow Ball front Upper Mounts - $190-200 from anywhere basically

There are a number of camber plates that work, I just went with the tried and true Teins because they're easy to get and others have used them before. The measurements I refer to may differ from camber plate to camber plate, so beware.

Rears:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...IMG_3799-1.jpg

1. Custom housing
see above

2. Gland nut
see above

3. Koni 8610-1436 Race Insert - $199/each
Single adjustable for rebound only. You can use 8611's in the rear here as well, it's just another couple hundred bucks. Purchased from Shox.com

4. Ground control sleeve
See above

5. Eibach Spring
see above

6. Bumpstop
see above, comes with the Konis. Koni gives you 2 per set of inserts, but you only need 2. Because they are far too tall, I just cut them in half and use half on each corner.

7. Tein Pillowball Rear Upper Mounts- $160-$175
see above

8. Locking nut
Comes with the Konis.

9. Flanged bearing
This is an important piece - it's a small metal flanged bearing INCLUDED in the Vorshlag top hats used in front. Distinguish this from the other brass flanged bearing from McMaster (entry 8 in the fronts). This pieces will be used to space the rear tophat from the Tein upper mount. The internal diameter of this piece is 14mm, which is appropriate for the Koni shaft, but the OD is TOO BIG to fit within the tein upper mount. It therefore cannot function as a centering mechanism the way the brass bearing can.

EDIT: Get Mcmaster part # 6658K22 instead. That is a non-flanged sleeve bearing, 14mm ID, 18mm OD, 18mm length.

10. Brass Flanged Sleeve bearing - $1.23.
I told you to order 4 of these above. This CAN fit inside the tein bearing and center the koni shaft. Purchase from Mcmaster.com

11. Torrington Bearing - $8.37/each
This is a needle and roller bearing. Combined with the housing pieces below, they will serve the same funtion as the Vorshlags, but for cheaper. You can use Vorshlags here if you wanna spring for it. The only difference is these are unsealed but cheaper. Order from Amazon.com HERE. You need 2.

12. Torrington Bearing Housings - $3.67
These will sandwich a Torrington bearing. Amazon listing here. You need 4.


. . .

Second, putting it all together

FRONTS

Step one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3777.jpg

Put Koni 8611 insert into front housing. The bottom of the housing has a hole for the compression adjuster.

Step two:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3778.jpg

Wrap a couple of the Ground Control-supplied rubber rings around the housing. These will prevent the sleeve from rotating through simple friction

Step three:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3779.jpg

The front Ground control sleeves have this black ring on the inside. I'm not sure what it's for, but it prevents the sleeve from sliding all the way down the housing properly. I just punched it out. Be careful, it only slides out one way.

Step four:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3780.jpg

Slip the Ground Control sleeve over the housing.

Step five:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3781.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3782.jpg

Place the Veilside180sx-supplied gland nut above the housing, make sure its centered properly, and tighten it so the Koni insert is snug inside the housing. You should use threadlocker on this, you do not want it getting lose. I did not use the threadlocker yet because I am just test fitting everything. If i fuck up i want to be able to take it apart.

Step six:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3783.jpg

Take half a bumpstop (if you haven't yet, hack 'em in half) and slide it onto the shaft of the Koni insert.

Step seven:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3785.jpg

Mount the spring on top of the Ground Control perch.

Step eight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3786.jpg

Put the Vorshlag top mount above the spring. The ID of the vorshlag piece is 14mm, so the Koni shaft goes right through it.

Step nine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3788.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3787.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3791.jpg

Put one of the flanged brass sleeve bearings inside the Tein spherical bearing. The pictures should show you why you need the bearing. With no brass piece, the rim of the Tein bearing is putting all of the weight on to the metal snout of the Vorshlag piece. With the brass piece, there is more surface area. The brass piece also centers the Koni shaft inside the Tein bearing.

Step ten:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3794.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3795.jpg

Thread the Koni-supplied nut onto the Koni shaft and tighten it up. This requires threadlocker as well. I believe Koni recommends 33 lbs/ft of torque. I'm not entirely sure what the best way to tighten it is. With a socket over the nut, I think you'd need some way to hold onto the Koni shaft. Def suggested carefully using vice grips to hold the shaft while you tighten the nut.

Here's a pic showing the articulation available:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3792.jpg


REARS

Step one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3804.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3805.jpg

As before, drop the Koni insert into the housing. Wrap one of the GC-supplied rubber rings around the housing.


Step two:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3807.jpg

Slide the ground control sleeve on.

Step three:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3808.jpg

Thread the Veilside180sx-supplied gland nut onto the housing. Don't forget threadlocker.

Step four:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3809.jpg

Bump stop goes on.

Step five:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3802.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3810.jpg

Put one of the Torrington bearing housings on.

Step six:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3811.jpg

Bearing itself goes next.

Step seven:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3812.jpg

Top it off with another housing piece.

Step eight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3813.jpg

Spring

Step nine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3814.jpg

Shit, i forgot to mention it above. . . that silver piece is a top hat supplied by Ground Control. GC gives you four, I only used two since I have vorshlags in front. It has the proper ID for the Koni shaft (14mm)

Step ten:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3815.jpg

Important point - put the flanged piece that comes with the VORSHLAG tophats above the ground control top hat. It has the proper ID for the Koni shaft, but as mentioned, it will not go inside the Tein bearing . . .but we don't want it to. This piece serves as a spacer between the GC tophat and the Tein bearing to there is room for the Tein camber plate to deflect.

Step eleven:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3816.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3817.jpg

Put the Tein top mount on. As you can see in the second pic, the Koni shaft is not properly centered inside the bearing. We can't have that flopping around . . .

Step twelve:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3818.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3819.jpg

This is where the brass flanged pieces come in handy. Insert it into the Tein bearing, and viola, the Koni shaft is centered.

Step thirteen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...l/IMG_3820.jpg

Use the last Koni-nut to hold it all together. Threadlocker here as well.



Hope this explains it. If deemed useful, perhaps it can go into the Premieproject area or FAQ section.

And if i fucked up anything, please let me know asap.


Much love to veilside180sx, McCoy, Def, and anyone else I bugged.

Waiting for Def's z32 upright bearings so I can get all that stuff on my car.

Looks good so far!

You're going to want to cut the flange off of the brass spacers you're using inside of the camber plates. That flange will eventually deform from the loads it will see when set up like that. I used a 4.5" cutoff wheel to hack it off, and a file to deburr it when I set mine up.

Also, it kind of sucks that you got the barrel shaped eibachs. With some dealers you have to specify that you want springs with a consistent OD. I'd try to send those back; otherwise you're going to lose more inside wheel/tire clearance than necessary.

Will the brass deforming be that big a deal? The flanged rim is so thin already . . .

I have some non-flanged bearings that are 18mm in length, I can just hack those in half. It'll be easier than cutting off the flanged edge.

I'll give shox.com a call and see if i can trade the springs.

Not too worried about inside clearance, I'm not running any 315's in front yet :D I think an s14 has sufficient clearance that I'll be ok; kouki fenders are as wide as it gets stock, and i can get a pull if i have to.

Great writeup. Can't wait for your review after you get some driving time on them.

I'd be worried about it breaking off and leaving a void in the assembly. There would be about 2-3mm of space for the spring, tophat, etc. to bounce around and make a lot of noise and possibly damage something.

Wish I could say the same for my s13.

What's the use of the torrington bearings on the rear? Do they rotate that much?

Nice write up
digging the multi-purpose work bench

It probably doesn't rotate much, but the Torrington eliminates any possibility of binding due to rotation.

I actually used a second set of Vorshlag upper perches in the rear of my S13, partly for this reason, partly for a cleaner upper assembly.

V1A, x2 on wishing there was more room in the front of an S13...

your going to like them a lot. its really like being on rails with GC and koni's. one day ill change from the yellow's to the 8611

SICK.... What is the total price afterwards?

i'll bite

how low do these go.

you have no idea how much this helps me, I was going to buy off the shelf coilovers and build some of these in the future after I figured out what I was doing, now I can just jump right in. I am assuming they aren't on the car yet? once they are it would be nice to have some feedback on ride quality

I have a similar setup on my S13. Ride quality is excellent, despite having pretty stiff springs. Rides better than a JIC-equipped car I've driven, and much better than a K-Sport car. I've got a friend locally who has Stance on his car, but I've yet to drive it to make a comparison.

what did the total pricing come out to??

and how low do these go compared to something like stance

It's about $1500 for all 4 corners (depends where you buy your shocks from). You won't get the "slammed" look though, this is purely for people looking to have more control and quality.

so height adjustment is only available through drooping?

that is correct.

so fucking bad ass, seriously the best coil over setup you can build period. You can have the shocks valved by koni to your liking and always order up different springs from eibach for the gc's.

I believe due to the design of the housings, even putting the spring perch at its highest setting still results in lowering the car an inch or so. That's according to some S13 guys like McCoy. Don't know its effect on the s14.

Veilside180sx said i shouldn't have any problems matching my currrent ride height (car at top of the tire level, maybe a shade below).

Total price? You can shop around for camber plates and maybe get some used ones or a different brand (ebay?).

$1000 for Konis on all 4 corners
$750 for housings
$400 for GC + eibachs
$75 for vorshlag tophats in front
$325 for Teins
$28 for the torrington bearings ($8x2 + $3x4)
random shit like the brass bearings were only a few bucks

$2478 total the way I did it

You can knock off $200 if you go with 8610's in front instead of 8611. Take off another $47 if you skip the vorshlags and use regular torrington bearings in front. Used camber plates would probably halve what I spent on the new Teins, but surprisingly no one had any used ones when i was looking. One of those cases where they're only available when u don't need it.

If somehow you score used GC's u can shave off more.

I'll make a few hundred back selling my old Apexi's, they're still good.

Admittedly if you were in the market for Megans or D2 or whateve these are double the price. . . but these are better than any of the $2000ish JDM coilovers.

I think a year ago or so Koni jacked up their prices quite a bit. I might have seen 8611's for around $200 somewhere before . . . but thats long gone.

You can use my washing machine.

If I can use your machine shop. :naughtyd:

Called Shox. They said to call GC. Called GC. They won't exchange my spring, although they did confirm they make 2.5inch ID, 7inch tall, 450 and 350 rate springs with consistent diameter.

GC's explanation is that the barrel shape provides more clearance on spring compression so there is no coilbind (makes sense, i guess).

If I start running into problems with tire clearance, I can always change springs . . . and call Hypercoil :wackit:

WOW! great write up. I can't wait to see your review and stance after you install them, because I've been thinking on what to upgrade to, but don't want to drop all the coin at once.

Awesome write-up. Ground Control is in my backyard (about a 10 minute drive). I went a long time ago and they wanted like $800 with AGX's for my S13. I wish I used that set-up. I wanna try this sometime to compare to my Flex's.

if you used AGX's instead of Koni's... you'd shave like, what, over a grand off of that

You'd save a grand easily. AGX's are stand alone, not inserts . . . no housings needed, and they're like half the price of the Konis themselves.


I wouldn't recommend AGX's though. Mine blew with just RS-R Sus Down springs (like 3 kg/mm all around i think). Didn't even track the car (a few auto-X's and daily driving on highway). A koni yellow in the rear will save alot of money still.

Here is mine adjusted about 1/4" down from the top of the perch with 6" 550lb springs. I could probably drop the car another 1-2" easily without fear of running out of suspension travel, but due to the hilly area I live in dare not.
http://www.prmsg.org/albums/album76/...shot.sized.jpg




You should be ok, the spring should be above the tire enough that this shouldn't be an issue up front. If it is, that's the beauty of these, ERS springs (or hyperco) can be found almost anywhere.

Here's mine with the current ride height... those are 255 RA-1's on a 17x9.5 +28
http://www.prmsg.org/albums/album101...e_05.sized.jpg

I've driven on AGX's and GC's and it's no comparison to driving on Koni 86XX's. They also can't handle the spring rates that the koni's can and you can't lower your car without taking the chance of blowing them due to bottoming out.

Cool, never knew people did this setup often on their 240's. I have Koni's and GC's on my e30 but it's more for getting low than handling.

deal!
I'll be needing a washer and drier soon...
the z32 bearings should be done soonish, I'll be expecting a full write up then

there are a number but unfortunately they tend to get lost in the JDM-coilover-of-the-month hype.

is this an auto cross set up or drifting ? (I know you can get what ever valve & spring rates you choose)

How are these better than a good low price coilover(i.e. pbm, ect...) ?

Cool writeup, after riding it let us know what you think!!!

The categorization of certain coilovers as "grip" or "drifting" is mostly a myth . . . all cars can benefit from better suspension, regardless of what they're used for.

There are smarter people than me that can explain it better, but my view is the level most drifters are at, the coilovers they have really don't matter. Drifting is, technically speaking, the sport of pure car control for car control's sake- not for the sake of outright speed around a track (why do you think there's no clock?). Most of the crappy coilovers out there have high spring rates with insufficient damping or improper damping characteristics. Since most people just wanna get sideways for the fun of it, however, the suspension flaws are simply irrelevant.

Better coilovers come with better dampers that supply enough compression and rebound damping to allow springs to compress and decompress gradually in a controlled manner, rather than simply slamming up and down (no damping at all, bouncy) or worse . . . springs so stiff that they don't compress at all, turning the car into little more than a shopping cart.

I'll let someone smarter than me take over.

wow! excellent write up!

quick question though, do the aftermarket shock bodies allow for more wheel clearance? and do they let you place the shock lower to get more travel out of it? I have an off-the-shelf koni/GC setup and those are my two complaints. with the car on the ground the shock is towards the bottom of its travel. and there is very little clearance between the spring perch and the tire sidewall. it kinda limits me to how wide a tire i can stick in the front.

been running the 8611's for about the same time as mccoy has. I got 8611's up front with 550lb GC kit and Koni Yellows in the back with 400lb GC's. I saved money buying used yellows.
Had D2's, KTS, and Tein Flex's on my 240s. these are by far the best setup I think I can get for the money. I'd spend around 2000 for a comparable coilover setup. I've done a bunch of track day with these and every time someone rides with me they are amazed at how well they perform.

I would say these are more ideal for track day, autox, road racers, cause most drifters won't spend the money. as i wouldn't either if i was planning on hitting shit with my car.

my most recent picture with V3 housings, i'm not looking to get the car as low as possible, so ride height is not a problem especially since the shock travel is somewhat low with 550lb springs.
http://home.comcast.net/~yourmom.124/100_1374r.jpg
This is full camber, 17x9 +22 RPF1's, 245 re-o1r.
http://home.comcast.net/~sr20s13/100_1183.JPG

I just realized a blindingly simple solution to the barrel-shaped springs problem. I have two barrel shaped springs and two consistent diameter springs.

I can just put the barrel shaped ones in the back, where there's loads and loads of clearance. Gah. I'm stupid.

From what other owners have said, there's way more space with these housings.

Do you really want your 8k springs in the back and your 6k up front?

fuck

i was solely thinking in terms of length

forgot all about rate

shoot me

^^ But you can try it to se how is the feeling of the car (6k front and 8k on the back) and adjust bound and rebound of the shocks towards your desire. If you don't like it then change them again.

i wanna do this setup, wish it was a bit cheaper though...

Used GC hardware and tein plates, 8610's up front and koni yellows out back is going to be the most cost effective way to go. Probably in the $1500 range if your a good shopper... I ran this setup for a while, minus the adjustability, it rode as nice as the 8611F/8610R setup I have now.

what do you think of the upper camber plates sold by delubozparts on ebay? ~$90 shipped...
oh and what koni yellows for the rear would you use if using z32 rear uprights?
also what is the model of 8610 series you would recommend, since i noticed the numbering goes 8610-xxxxSPORT

Great write-up, thanks for the comprehensive presentation!

correct me if I'm off, but aren't the 8611 shocks with the 2-way externally adjustable rebound & compression?
How many ppl would even benefit from that feature?

Seems the the 'off the shelf' koni yellows would be a much cheaper solution.
IIRC, a set of ots regular yellows would be around $500.
maybe saving a few hundred off the total price.

That could be a more cost effective alternative,
if fine tuning the rebound & compression isn't a necessity.

I've had the OTS Koni yellow w/ GC w/ custom rate setup on my old civic & miata with great results.
Then again, the cars were only for occasional track/autoX events,
not built for competition use.
Maybe most of us here could probably skimp on the 8611 shocks for regular Koni yellows.

Def uses the deluboz plates, so they seem fine. I believe others on NissanRoadRacing.com use them as well.

I don't know which Koni yellows are best for z32 rears. Purely speculation on my part, but an S13 might be able to use the Z32 application, since i believe they are the right length. An s14 is different, so i have no idea. Best to call up Koni?

As for the 861x series . . .

Front:
8611-1257 or
8610-1436

Rear:
8611-1258 or
8610-1436

DOUBLE CHECK WITH VEILSIDE180SX BEFORE ORDERING, no sense ordering the wrong one

The only difference is the length, i think.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe the Yellow doesn't let you go as low . . . if that doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't matter :)

Maybe I missed something, but what was the benefit of the housings?
Does it have to do with lowering and/or inside/outside clearance?

Just contemplating potential cost-cutting measures & the respective trade-off's.
8611 are indeed badass shocks however you look at it though.
would they require more frequent rebuilds?

Need to get back reading more stuff on that Nissan Road Race forum.
Good stuff there!

The housings go lower and allow for more travel when low, they also provide more inside clearance.

Plus measuring and cutting up housings yourself requires labor and tools. If you can do it yourself, more power to you . . . but its more than i can do.

Got it, so the housings are pretty much the solution to the whole Koni/GC compatibility issue with 240's from the beginning.
Not a cheap part, but I can certainly see it's value!

Be interesting to see how much lowered your car is, and comparative driving impressions.
Pls keep us informed.

Thanks!

Richard's housings (front) work with 8610s and 8611s. I don't know if they work with yellows. 8610 are single-adjustable and less expensive than 8611.

On the rear of my S13, I used Eclipse shocks (p/n 8041-1208Sport). These are externally adjustable, WITHOUT needing to remove them from the car. They have adjusters at the top of the strut shaft just like the 86xx stuff. The S13 yellows must be removed from the car to adjust. For a few more bucks the Eclipses work great. I have no idea if they'd work with an S14 though - the Eclipse shocks are a few millimeters shorter than the S13 shocks, which doesn't matter when the car's lowered. I understand the S14 shocks are substantially longer though, so they might not work.

for yellows, you can just use the stock housings.

brilliant thread! thumbs up

To clarify: the yellows are inserts in the front, stand-alone in the rear

I have heard of people using ots front koni's in the rear so they can be externally adjustable.

I am also thinking rebuilding a megan street coilover set and putting koni's in them, anyone have any experiences? or measurements of the ots yellows?

Some points to add, I have a Koni setup on the front of mine and spent a bit of R+D time making it work and learned a bit.

The Deluboz plates will work, but I had a lot of trouble getting them to bolt on, after I added the upper springplate to the assembly.
The little shouldered spacer they give you to center the strut shaft in the pillow ball made it so that I could not get thread engagement on the upper strut bolt. I had to make my own spacers, but this may be because of the upper spring plates I used.

If you're cheap, you can do this for about 1/3rd what the OP spent, but his setup is really the way to go if you can save the cash to do it right.
Doing it cheap means one of two things, you're either doing it ghetto as hell (my original setup) or you're going to end up doing some trial and error fitment and making some stuff like I am now.
I used ebay coilover sleeves, threw all of the hardware away but the sleeve itself and the little steel ring they give for the sleeve to sit on, the spring itself is garbage and you shouldn't use it, imo.
But the sleeves themselves are suprisingly good quality and haven't crossthreaded or seized in a year of weather exposure and occasional daily driving. Note, if you're really serious about suspension setup, the cheaper sleeves are coarser in thread pitch than the GC and would probably make it difficult to get the car cornerweighted really well.

Really though, if you're not willing to waste a bunch of your time playing with it, just buy new stuff.
I just saved a shitload of money by buying worn out dampers and having them rebuilt locally, which I was told could not be done but was able to get done for $100 by a circle track shock guy.
They work well now, even if they die soon, I paid so little for them it's no huge loss.
I'll admit that my setup doesn't perform quite as well as OptionZero's, as his is really the best way to do it and uses very good stuff.
Veilside180sx's bodies look WAY better than my current ones, worth the coin for sure imho. Mine are strong, but not the prettiest looking.
I'd have gotten his if I had seen them before I did mine.
However, if you can weld or know someone who can and don't mind doing a bunch of pain in the ass parts gathering from mcmaster and trial and error fitting, you can get a decent setup for less than you'd spend the cheapest of ebay coils if you can get a hookup on used dampers.
I've probably got about $400 in mine total and am pretty happy with the outcome.

Rittmeister, you got any info or pics of the eclipse shock install in the rear? im wondering what the lower perch looks like... can you add a threaded sleeve to them for height/corner weighting? Do they require custom upper mounts or something so the adjustment knob fits?

Id love to have easy access to damper adjustment for all four corners, if possible and I dont want to spend a million bucks... might be just what ive been looking for...

The Eclipse rear (this is NOT a product line from Koni, it's a Koni shock for a Mitsubishi Eclipse) is functionally the same as a Koni S13 rear shock, it's just a few mm shorter overall (doesn't matter if you're lowered) and has a 12mm diameter shaft instead of the S13's 10mm shaft. The larger diameter is necessary to accomodate the adjuster within the shaft, so you can turn the knob at the top to adjust it, instead of removing it from the car like you must do with the S13 shock.

As far as uppers, you just use the Tein plate or the factory mount, with whatever bushings and spacers match up. You can get to the adjuster by opening the trunk. In a coupe you have to cut out some of the trunk trim, but if you've got an upper strut bar you already did that anyway.

For threaded sleeves, you use Ground Control just like with the front. No offense, but Duh! :D

Here's a pic the first time I installed it, before removing it to ditch the GC upper mount in favor of a Vorshlag unit.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...3/IMG_2215.jpg

And here's a detail of the top, after some surgery, but showing the adjuster etc.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...IMG_2258-1.jpg

Like in OptionZero's directions, you just need a spacer under the Tein mount, and a bronze bushing from McMaster to match the Tein plate to the strut shaft. The OD is 18mm and the ID is 12mm, same as the shaft.

Hope that helps.

hell yea man, thats exactly what I was looking for. what's that thing the threaded sleeve resting on? does the shock have a built in spring perch, or just those little rings for them to sit on... like this: http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/m...er%20Large.JPG

GC sleeve is pretty short, (2"?) but should be legit as long as i get the right length spring... how lowered is your car anyways?

Look at the picture of the housing
there's a perch for the sleeve to rest on

Yeah, the pic shows it. The shock body has a snap ring like the pic you linked, and then the silver perch sits on that.

You can't use a longer sleeve or it sticks above the top of the shock body and the upper assembly could hit it under compression. Bad juju. It doesn't have a huge range of adjustment and you can't slam it to the ground, but then most guys don't understand that if you lower it that far you've compromised your roll centers anyway...

I just put up pics in the Pic Thread - look in the last couple days for a silver S13 coupe with Silvia front and R33 wheels.

damn, that car looks sick. I like the ride height, thats probably about what im going to be going for... I want to run 275/40R17s though so i might want to go just a little lower lower if possible because of the taller tires.

shouldn't break the shock bottoming out or anything... it'll have bumpstops and fairly stiff springs... but will it affect the damping in any other way?
EDIT: just found on konis site that yellows are not position sensitive, neato!

my ball joints are shot... i might get roll center adjusters but i think its lame to pay an extra hundred bucks just for a shank thats a little longer...

Im not sure since i have not done this, but I think you migh have one or more of these mixed up

(just posted stroke cuz im lazy, but all the dimensions match from what I see)
Front:
8611-1257 143mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

Rear:
8611-1258 158mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

from
http://www.koniracing.com/8611.cfm

but i dont know what the correct ones would be... theres not actually a 8610 with the exact dimensions of the 8611-1258 either....

i cant seem to find the 8610s for less than 200 each though! if anyone knows where to find them cheaper let me know

8610s are 200 everywhere. 8611's are 300.

Part numbers from Nissan Road Racing

If you want to confirm, PM veilside180sx there.

If another s14 owner has this setup and wants to chime in . . .

Thread saved! Great write up. I'm looking more and more into this setup!

great write up!

It's actually the 1257 and 1436 that I use for the rear S14 as well now.

from that first post, i was hoping they'd still be 200 a set, not each...

looks like im just going with the regular yellows on back rather than the inserts...

hope they can handle 450lb spring rate...

I got a quote from Shox.. the 8610 and 8611 inserts are $200/$300 each...

You're right. Editing the original post.

They came two per box, so I wasn't thinking.

My front spring perch just sits on top of my spring and makes a lot of noise over bumps. Any of you guys know of some way to get rid of this or at least quiet it. Pretty sure Vorschlag camber plates would've got rid of this but I had to go a different route. This is on an e30 btw but I don't think it would matter.

a few more random questions...

i get that the torrington bearing or the vorschlag top hats allow the spring to rotate when you spin the steering wheel, but what about the shaft of the strut?
does the shaft rotate separately from the shock body, or what?


Also, say i catch 5 feet or air in my 240sx (lol) what will happen to the springs? because if the suspension droops too far, they could un-seat, which would be bad. I think the konis have internal bumpstops in regards to droop travel... are you guys running them set up in a way that it keeps the springs on the perches, or what?

is there such a thing as an extra short helper spring? Seeing as how theyre about a half inch when compressed, theyre going to cut into my ride height because I want the perches above the tires for extra wide tires (like McCoys older setup: http://www.sr20forum.com/gallery/dat..._spacer_02.jpg)

It might not ever be a problem, but it would be lame if the spring unseated every time you lifted a wheel....

I actually was thinking about this last night. Every time you jack up your car, would the spring be unseated?

well, if you had the GC collar high enough that the spring was touching both the collar and the hat when the shock is fully extended, then it would stay on the perches... but that might mean a higher ride height than you want... this of course depends on the position of the shocks range of travel (like 5 inches) vs the springs range of travel (say 3.5 inches)
It woudnt be a bad thing to have the springs be at nearly its max free length at max droop, atleast not in any way that i can see (if the spring rate was super stiff, i think it could damage the shock though, but maybe not), but that might require some sort of threaded piece to adjust the position of the shock, not just the springs, unless you made the housings the exact right position to begin with.

but yea, if i could just see a pic on one of these setups at max droop (on jacks like you said) then i'd have a better idea of how my setup is going to work out...

With the konis, i've read it takes a good while for the wheel to drop down even when on a lift because of the high rebound damping.

Meaning that the shock will never extend past where the spring can push it while driving.

makes sense... it would depend on the spring rate as well as the rebound.

But i never really see keeper springs on 500lb springs, its usually on stiffer ones, but not always.

I still wonder how far (and fast) they unseat when the car is on jacks though...

Found the post I was looking for.

Would anyone be able to explain why the housings are worth it vs just hacking up factory shocks? it look like perches where GC sits are designed for GC but besides that i'd really like to hear some facts as i am really looking to do this upgrade on my s14.

lower ride height
added travel
more wheel clearance inside
don't have to hack and measure yourself

You can't use 861x series struts with the stock strut housing. Those require a gland nut up top, and I believe are too big of a diameter for the stock housing.

Will those part numbers (Vorshlag, McMaster, Torrington) work if you use Koni yellows? I don't know the diameter of the shaft for Koni yellows.

Yellows have a different diameter. They're also stand-alone in the rear (no housing required).

They don't handle lowness or stiffer rates as well as the 86xx's either.

Convert Yellow + GC to this setup?
 

A while back, I got a set of Koni Yellows and the Ground Control kit with sleeves and 400/300 Eibach ERS springs. It worked ok on my S14 but it made a lot of noise -- mainly squeaks and creaks in the rear -- and I didn't have camber plates for the front so I couldn't get the car aligned properly. I swapped out that setup for a set of Stances with 8/6 springs, and recently I traded the Stances to my brother for Tanabes with 10/8 springs. The Tanabes are too low for me, even at their highest point, and both the Stances and Tanabes are too harsh.

My question is: can I convert the Koni Yellow + GC setup to something similar to what OptionZero did? What parts do I need to do it?

Squeaks and creaks? Never heard anything like that out of any Koni setup I've been around, except maybe the sound of fluid moving in the shocks at low temperatures(entirely normal, and not very loud).

All you need for the droop in the rear is a set of tender springs if you think that's causing noise - it isn't rocket science on putting them in. You need a spacer and a 2.5" ID set of tender springs.

The Koni Yellows that I have are designed for the OEM front housings and OEM springs. They aren't the same as the race inserts. Koni part numbers: Front 8641 1364Sport, rear 8040 1226Sport.

Front shock shaft diameters, measured with a digital caliper: 21.75 mm main shaft, 13.39 mm top. Above the top section is a short taper, and then the threads for the top nut(s).

Rear shock shaft diameters: 11.75 mm main shaft, 9.91 mm top. There is a bead between the body and the top section; it's a few mm wider than the main part of the shock shaft.

Will the Vorshlag spring perches and the Tein mounts fit on these shocks?

mine were very loud creaking and squeaking until i got some miles on them

semi off topic - but not completely


konis are badass - big ups.


I used the agx/gc setup before and if u go low - they unseat and POPBOOIIIIINNYOOIOIOINNNG back into place when u jack it... lol just like old jdm ones :P

konis probably wont do that - and if ur that serious u wont be that low anyhow.

No one replied to my question... Will the Vorshlag spring perches and the Tein mounts fit on OEM-style Koni Yellows?

Is it possible to get everything but the springs from GC?

why wont they fit? read the first page, look at number 8. The diameter of the shaft must fit inside the top bearing piece, either drill it out or replace or it might fit who knows. the link says it fits koni. you just need to know the shaft size.

the upper spring perch will fit as long as the inner diameter of the spring is the same.

yes, call them... might take a few calls, maybe some convincing, they usually resist because they get calls from kids all the time. But times are tough and everyone needs to make sales.

GC is run by a bunch of aholes. Chances are they won't sell you individual pieces, and they will probably give you quite a bit of attitude for your trouble.

Aww McCoy's pics are down!

I'd eventually move up to the 8610 / yellow setup, but right now, I need to spend the money to get the car back on the road instead.

Great write up!