Na Ka Faq
 

For all you NA freaks and your ITBs and high compression and lopey cams.

QUIT BUGGING ME DAN!

KA24-E
Type:2398cc EFI SOHC 12 valve 4cyl
Power:140hp @ 5600rpm
Torque:152ft-lbs @ 4400rpm
Gearboxes:RWD 5-Speed and 4-Speed Auto
Source:1989-1990 240SX

KA24-DE
Type:2398cc EFI DOHC 16 valve 4cyl
Power:155hp @ 5600rpm
Torque:160ft-lbs @ 4400rpm
Gearboxes:RWD 5-Speed manual(1991-1998 240SX) FWD 5-Speed manual(1991-1998 altima) 4-Speed Auto
Source:1991 onward 240SX, 1991-1998 Altima

my throttle bodies came in today, here's a pic comparing gsxr 1000 throttles to the intake side of the manifold.
http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/1...parison0sj.jpg

There's some reading material to keep you guys busy. hahaha And I might have another smaller write-up soon here if/when I build another manifold setup.

I did get it dyno'd. Peak #'s aren't that high, but look at the torque curve, and lack of significant top end hp falloff. With cams It's going to be a whole new beast (for maeda to make fun of). hahaha

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...42/dyno001.jpg

Rough cost was ~930 for the ITB's, MS, and all the other junk that goes along with it.

I'm selling my current ITB setup, as I'm making a new one. So if you are interested (seriously), PM me. I'll put them up in the FS section in a couple weeks.

I'll do this but once.

DO NOT POST QUESTION IN THIS THREAD
DO NOT BS IN THIS THREAD

Seriously. I deleted 7/12 posts here because they were worthless. Cut the shit out, or I'm going to lock and unstick this.
-Jeff

Companies that make cams for KADE's:

JWT
Gude
PDM Racing
Crower (used to, can do custom grinds too)
And some more I'm sure. But none reputable I can think of...

A note on valvesprings and retainers. It's been confirmed that CA and KADE valvesprings and retainers are the same. You can use CA springs and retainers in your DE. I was talking to a very reputable source that said that CA and VG springs and retainers are the same. So if this is true, for valvesprings and retainers CA = KA = VG. This means lots of choices.

I'm getting some cams (JWT) in the next week or two for my engine. I should have before and after tests on the same dyno with the cams. I'll also play with velocity stack length before and after, to help get a better idea of ideal runner length for the two different sets of cams.

Oh and SOHC pistons in a DE. I havn't tried it out yet, but It is more likely than not that aftermarket cams in a DE with stock sohc pistons will not work together. Will put the valves into the tops of the pistons. The valve reliefs in the sohc pistons do not line up with the valves in the DE. I've run this across a few reputable nissan engine builders, and they also highly doubt that cams with much higher lift than stock will work with stock sohc pistons.

And because people alway ask...

The highest hp N/A KA24DE to date puts down 365 flywheel hp. I forget the torque. 290rwhp. I want to say 25x rwtq, but don't quote me on that. This engine is used in the Nismo baja truck things. They see 11,500rpms in the air. You can buy them with a few hours on them now and then for a pretty penny. Call BS if you want, I've talked to the builder myself.

Can you plz post a close up of how the VR sensor is mounted in reference to the crank pulley?

http://www.drysump.com/pan16.htm

Found at least one dry sump oil pan for KA

for those serious ppl, a friend of mine has a gt3 motor up for sale... if anyone is serious please pm me. CR 13:1.. i believe its setup for a v band style belt.. so either your going to have to fab up ur own pulley or youd have to by one... the motor is setup for dry sump already... this is all thru WOM from a friend...

I also wanted to add that since the KA doesn't have a fully counter weighed or knife edged crank that there are affordable alternatives.
Did some research on crank scrapers found that this company makes them for the KA... http://crank-scrapers.com/prod01.html
Some people can look at them and think that they are worthless, but it is to break windage in the crank case, and increase HP. I am not going to say that it is any type of significant HP, but for $50 and a 3HP gain at peak I wouldn't mind having one. Especially since people have claimed that it increases rev as well.
If ecu tuning and ITB's isn't your thing,(although I do plan to do it in the future) you can just have the TB bored, and ported from www.maxbore.com.
RBS14 mentioned a diverse amount of cams available, I believe the im Wolfe is the best streetable cam on the market(although it cost the most)
Great write up RBS13.

What's the bore on those throttle bodies? Is it the same top and bottom?

-=thanx=-

50mm induction diameter and 42mm throttle plate diameter.

starting up a rebuilt ka24de motor
 

what do i do when i wanna start up an engine that has been rebuilt. something about the oil pump by manual i just need to know the steps? anyone with tips???

put a few drops or a cap full of oil into the spark plug holes before starting up to lube the cylinder walls and piston rings.

I am planning on building the KA and staying n/a. I am shooting to go past 200hp, however I was curious on something. How much can the stock ka24de cams hold? Should they be upgraded right away or should I save it towards the end? If so, what cams are reccomended?

they suck. Get rid of them. What cams you get depends on the powerband you want. Easiest is JWT.

so you only got a coupe of horses from the itbs? i thought they added alot more.

there's 95% of the power curve (everything but WOT) that there is no quantitative way of representing. Not to mention response. Instant power! that's where the ITB's really shine. It's just one of those things you have to do to appreciate. Just a dyno chart won't convince you. With cams I got about 170 to the wheels with real tuning (timing). But now it's boosted so it's a whole new game.

[/QUOTE]
The highest hp N/A KA24DE to date puts down 365 flywheel hp. I forget the torque. 290rwhp. I want to say 25x rwtq, but don't quote me on that. This engine is used in the Nismo baja truck things. They see 11,500rpms in the air. You can buy them with a few hours on them now and then for a pretty penny. Call BS if you want, I've talked to the builder myself.[/QUOTE]



i want to see the dyno

isnt that suppose to be the ka24E race motor running high compression and itbs and runs on alcohol? not a feasible street engine?

id like to see the dyno on those baja trucks too.

Those baja's if they were Fuel injcted god that would be hot

i hate carbs =\

thats awesome. i want ITBS now where can i get um?

Toda sells 43mm for 250 for all 4 i believe

post more info about NA's! lol im digging this sh!t due to high gas prices! ahha

just wait till i get my build done. under 2000 for 200+whp n/a :)

im pretty sure those baja truck if they are the same as what they run at crandon brush run (20miles from me) they are fuel injected. when you hear and see them do what they do in real life its amazeing, they beat up on the v8 classed trucks alot of the time in the shoot out. the v8's are in the 800hp+ range, bu they are are bigger and heavier. the one we got to see looked fuel injected but it looks nothing like a 240 ka.

ok i got a question ... how high of a compression can i go on pump gas on a ka24de ... i was think of a shorter rerouted intake, port n polish, headers cams, 2.5 pipes, jwt ecu, and higher compression if possible for n/a build ???

most high comp pistons for the DE is the 10.5 to 1 ratio. However, the E pistons can bump the compression all the way to 11 to 1 (correct me if I am wrong).

10.5 to 1 will run on pump gas no problem, and getting your ECU retuned for high comp application is recommended.

anything above 11:1 is unsafe for the KA (I think).

whats stock compression for a DE ... and where would i be able to get high comp pistons ... mostly i just find the low comp ones ...

You can walk into any piston maker and they've probably already made high comp pistons for the DE.

If you're feeling good with your milling capabilites. You can pick up SOHC flat top pistons, mill in valve releifs and mill the piston to lower the compression to 11:1

the only company i have seen advertise high compression ka pistons is supertech. they have a 10.5:1 set that goes for around $400.

as far as cams go, i have seen people use s13 sohc cams in the de is that beneficial in this case or is jwt the way to go. what is the difference in the lift/duration? as you can tell, i have more questions than answers but i am looking to build an na ka for reliability over turbo/power. i know above 200whp is pretty much impossible but i would like to see someone hit it.

The SOHC cam doesnt fit the DE.

When i'm done. I'll be over 200whp.

spread the love, what is your setup? i have a spare ka that i will be building soon and am thinking about just going back to stock for reliability/cost effective but please share your setup. my main concern is that it is my daily driver and i will be entering med school so i need reliability and money will probably get tighter after undergrad.

You want reliability. I'd just suggest Bolt ones. JWT cams/valve train and call it good.

This is my daily driver but i can catch a ride into work whenever it goes down and i have a spare engine in the garage. I'm doing all this experimentally.

Posted this a while back with no response. Figured I'd put it in here this time with hopes of better luck. I was going to do my lifters soon in my 89 KA and I figured I might as well gain some HP since they're gonna take the cam out anyway. Do have an idea what kinda HP I might get with this cam on a stock motor? I asked Summit and they said "there are to many variables to determine such as what header, what intake, what injectors you are using". I told them it was a STOCK motor. How can I make it any more clear!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only thing I have is a cone filter in place of airbox and a 2.5 exhaust.
Here is link, hope you can give a general idea.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

So what are your n/a ka24 et's?

I did a [email protected] with my 5spd 91' (i/h/e). This was done with an open diff with 3yr old 215/35/18's. I spun the whole 1st gear and over revved 1st to 4th gear (7800rpm/no rev limit/I don't know why) and had a super crappy 2.599 60ft. With an lsd and better driving I should easily do high 14's on street tires.

7800 rpms is kinda dangerous on the KA no?

I was waiting for the rev limiter to kick in, but it never did. On neutral the fuel cuts very smoothly at 7800 rpm (tried this only once), unlike my 2001 1.8 sentra which feels like the motor is gonna explode from the rev limiter, or my stock 240 tach is just broken.

Hrmm
 

Any information about the xcessive motorsports intake manifold set up? Good gains? Quality? Any one have it even? =]
Comparitively to ITB's which would yield more bang for the buck?
Thanks.

As for the ITB's, i'd love to have them but there is no way i can afford or even set up a stand alone fuel management. Ive seen a member from NICO do ITB's but had a plenum in order to use the maf. Ive tried contacting him, but he never responded. Does any one know where I can buy the plenum or instructions as to how to make one??

-thx, George

wats fellas newbie here I'm really interested in this itb setup for the kade but wat happened hows the progress goin? anything new?

doesn't make any sense either b/c the power curve decreases at higher RPMS.

7800 is wayyyyyyyyyy too high for a KA... the stock limit is below 7K...

I don't know... KA is a great motor for making torque, and it's definitely not a high rev motor...

So my tach must not be so accurate if the rev limiter should hit before 7000rpm. Also I don't feel any "ka falls flat on it's face after 6000rpm", my motor feels strong all the way to 6800rpm, maybe from the bolt-ons and shaved head.

Anyways, I still wish there was a bolt on centrifugal supercharger kit for the ka24de's. (at least 6psi):blah: :blah:

contact Thomas Knight at boosthead.com. He has made an S/C kit that is freakin' amazing. It uses the Eaton m62 blower. 175lb/tq at 2800 RPMS = teh sex

question, What about building an air box around the ITB's and then run a hose to or bolt the MAF on to the side of the air box? Then all you would need is something like the BIKI Rom setup and some dyno time and I think that would be a pretty good setup.

2nd question, Is the STOCK TB on the KADE actually 42mm? that seems very small to me. it looks more like 60mm. If it is 42mm, Isn't the KA-E 60mm? I know that is good upgrade for the VG30ET

a plenum for ITB's is a totally custom job. i had one made, but am no longer using it cause i went to standalone. the ITB's definately change the character of hte motor more then the peak power and teh sound is amazing.

PS: if anyone wants the plenum, email me

i know this is probably a stupid question, but i have no idea. are ITB's gonna decrease the life or dependability of your engine? will they last? any info would be great!

Maybe something like this would work. It's a fully built ka24de in a 72' 510 with mikuni side drafts and a t3/t4 turbo set up here on Saipan.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/TURBI/510z.jpg

e bay

Cams decide were the power is made. The KA falls flat on its face because of the mild Stock cams.

i just got a 89 240. its lacking power of course, yet i dont want to lose the n/a reliabilty. plus its my first car and my rents dont want me to have a turbo (so no sr) because it will be too fast of a first car. so im thinking about getting a 16 valve ka and swapping it with my 12 valve. then ill do basic bolt ons and ill be done. hoe does this sound?

lol i have fallin in love with n/a ka's:bowrofl:. once i am closed to being finished and relize that my setup is still to slow and itll cost way to much money to make an na ka faster then ill boost. lol:naughty:

are there any final results for this yet?

yea id kinda like to see dyno sheets and more info. where ya at bigvinnie?

I'm running ona weaker engine atm. But A stand alone system and i'd be good for about an 8Krpm rev.

Cam's i have in car power band starts at 4K. VERY streetable.

OK... for some odd reason I have actually had people asking if the SR20Down pipe will fit the NA KA24DE!! I guess because its similar in design!!

The answer is NO... unless you have a KA-T w/ custom Turbo Ellbow.

I actuall went out and installed an RS*R DP, SARD Tourqu Control Valve, and Full Kakimoto Exhaust on my S14... the 3 bolts off the Main will line up and bolt corectly... the issue was with the slight angle difference, and the mounting plate from the DP to the Trany. The mount can be cut off but it doesn't change the angle.
After you install the cat or test pie you will see its sitting much closer to the ground... if you get as far back as the Rear subframe you will be about a foot lower and never make it to the mounts.

This was actually fun to play with the idea... car looked so dumb sitting with the rear end about 2 feet off the ground and a full exhaust sitting on the ground. I couldn't force myself to shame my car with pictures.

SR Down Pipes are for SR20s or CA18s only... maybe a KA-T!!

Peace
Drew

Im running an 3" SR downpipe on my S13 KA... just have to use an S14 exhaust mani.

i will have to second that!!!! u can use a s14 exhaust mani on a s13 and will bolt to a sr downpipe.:wackit: ftw

OK so that is confirmed as possable... But It dosn't work on the S14, seems odd!?!

Peace
Drew

so question about stand alones. do you need one for itbs or could you get away with a piggy back? my guess would be no cuz i dont think you can get rid of the maf with just a piggy back but just askin to make sure. might make things eaiser down the road.

huh!!! are u positve it doesnt work on an s14? cause i would say if it worked on a s13 that it would also work on the s14.. wow thas wierd

u are correct, in order to use a piggyback the maf has to be present.. but u also dont have to have a standalone for itbs. u can have a plenum made and still use the stock maf but if u want open itb's then be willin to pay out the big bucks for a standalone

meh alright, i figured id ask, megasquirt here i come.

You don't have to use a VR sensor with the MSEFI like the install I saw posted earlier. Just use the stock Opto CAS and use the falling side of the signal. Of course, if you're really paranoid about timing and plan on going with a MS2 I hear you can run both a 12-1 wheel off the crank and the opto off the Cam. Again, that's if you're paranoid about chain slack or maybe want to attempt Sequential Injection. Or if you don't want to play with the Opto you can do VR, nothing wrong with either install.

MSEFI ftw!

I'm pretty Sure the title Reads N/A KA. Lets keep it on topic

how is talking about ms going off topic?

48, 49, 52, and post 59.

merr.... i can see what your talking about with the supercharger thing. didnt see that , haha. but back on topic anybody have any info on the sohc piston swap. i heard about it alot but never seen anybody actually do it. id like to do it in the future, have grooves made for em so the valves dont hit with bigger cams. i dunno mabey have em polished to help reduce carbon buildup. werd is that they bump compression from 9.5:1 to 11:1 and with high comp rings that just might up the comp up a little. seems like a pretty cool thing to do to dohc's, just never seen it done. but then again you barely see "built" n/a ka's. lol

Cam it. And don't do the bullshit 248/232 swap with factory cams. JWT or go home.

Some one did this on Altimas.net, and the result could have been better if he used quality parts.

He has to run super retarded ignition timing, and in a foolish move, bought the pistons on ebay.

With out a tune, it ran rough, it pinged, and who knows what else. He says he might try it out again.

248/248 is a pretty cool setup starting off. ive never seen 248/232, all s14 guys ive seen swap the cams put 2 s13 exhuast cams in and not leave the stock exhaust 232. jwt are like 270 duration right? anything bigger? if seen a lot of corolla guys with like a 300 duration cam. i wonder how that would idle? lol

using 248/248 is said to push the powerband too far up, are you sure you didn't mean 248/240?

PDM,and Crower make cams for the KA24DE as well, But I don't think anything (i've seen at least) tops JWT's 275/275. And there was no low end loss.

well ive got an s13 and suposedly the exhaust is 248 duration and the intake is 240, swaped another s13 exhaust cam inplace of the intake cam, retarded the timing 3 teeth. 248/248

There is now a thread on this, check it out.

Anyone running the nismo R4 cam on their SOHC?

im thinking about picking up this 97 dohc motor just cause it has hella less miles then mine does now and build an N/A setup. my 93 motor is pretty much the same so the trans would be able to fit and wiring harness and such rite? the 97 motor isnt gonna come with a wiring harness thats why im asking. i can run the same ecu and everything??

would it even make sense to upgrade fuel pumps and such and to tune it for power??

for now i was just thinking about running i/h/e and jwt cams? think this would be a streetable setup??

crower makes good cams

Engine/Model: KA24DE 16-VALVE DOHC 1991-99
Description Gross Lift Duration* Unit Needs Kit Part # Price
STAGE 1 - N/A PERFORMANCE STREET: Aggressive street use & n2o. RPM range: Idle-6250+. Needs spring kit w/ higher RPM. .363"/.363" .256°/.256° SET/2 STOCK CR-61351-2 $426.15
STAGE 2 - FORCED INDUCTION STREET/STRIP: Designed specifically for turbo/blower. Short duration, low overlap, & high lift. RPM range: 1000-6750+. Needs spring kit. .375"/.375" .264°/.264° SET/2 CR-84184 CR-61351T-2 $426.15
STAGE 3 - N/A 3/4 RACE: Designed for Street/Strip. Most popular profile. RPM range: 1500-7000+. Needs spring kit. .406"/.406" .272°/.272° SET/2 CR-84184 CR-61352-2 $426.15
STAGE 3 - FORCED INDUCTION RACE: Drag race & radical Street/Strip. RPM range: 1500-7000+. Needs ECU mods & spring kit. .401"/.401" .280°/.280° SET/2 CR-84184 CR-61353-2 $426.15
STAGE 3 - N/A FULL RACE: Drag race & radical Street/Strip. Rough idle. RPM range: 1500-7250+. Needs spring kit. ECU tuning manditory. .411"/.411" .288°/.288° SET/2 CR-84184 CR-61354-2 $426.15

http://atomicspeedware.com/camcrownis.htm thats who sells them

im gettin my block done now .runnnin je 11.0.1 pistons,eagle rods..jus got to get head work,itb's and a standalone.gotta prove the haters wrong

Question is, will an N/A KA 240sx ever hit a 10 second quarter mile?

I believe that it might 11.9 if you try your hardest. But I highly doubt 10.9 or better.

Hey guys i have a very quick question and i know it has been asked before so im not gonna post a new thread to talk about it....Is there any difference between a 92 KA block to a 96 KA Block (sensors and what not as in obdI to obdII)? I know the 98s are different cuz i understand they changed something related to the timing chain. Reason i ask is because i have a spare 92 KA engine in the garage and i want to rebuild it for my 96 s14 and just use the s14 head and sensors.

Just Had My KA Dynoed
Intake
Header
Ecu
Pulley
Stock cams and Exhaust
138hp/155q

I'm going to put back in my Jwt cams, and run again.

I'm also looking at running advanced ignition timing up to 23 degrees, coolant bypass, Iridum plugs to keep the temps down from the increased timing. anything else you guys can recommend?

Oh yeah, its Auto.

since you have more drivetrain loss due to auto I would be wondering how much more you would put down with 3-inch exhaust, and crower drop-ins. I'm looking if anyone else offers a sohc cam beside the R4 and R5 offered through nissan motorsports and the ones thru PDM.

wow all these people on this board and no one is running an R4 cam.