http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/underrrr.jpg

Def, you said the rear doesnt get as messed up as the front, which i believe is true.

But, is this really not THAT bad?

This is after i installed the PBM subframe risers, which i did notice a HUGE difference in how my car felt.

I was reading on how to adjust the traction rod properly on NRR and that is how i did it but my LCA rubs slightly against the mouting bracket and makes an annoying ass squeaky sound.

doesnt ever bind, but it is slightly rubbing.

Sorry this post was kind of all over the place but im just trying to figure out what my best options are for all this roll center fun.

If your front spindles come out and i only need a RLCA or something for the rear to fix what is neccesary then that would be fantastic haha

^^ That's how my suspension looks right now. Soooo, I'll be raising my car back up to near stock height, while I save dinero for S14 subframe to modify.

That's what I'm doing. :)

BTW - the steering axis inclination(our cars don't have kingpins) is from the upper strut pivot to the balljoint pivot. The funky angle the upright balljoint taper has really doesn't seem to serve much purpose other than maybe an attempt at keeping the balljoint together if it's super worn and has 300k miles on it and you go into a corner(by putting a vertical load on it).

The upright will still rotate about an imaginary line from the strut upper mounting point to the balljoint point, so that angle almost seems arbitrary...

Well, looking at the rear suspension, you likely have your rear roll center still above the ground. The front at the same ride height is going to have a roll center FAR below the ground. So like I said, the roll center height and migration isn't near as bad on the rear as the front.

Exactly! The last time someone was talking to me about kingpin angle and S-chassis, I did a double-take... So when designing new LCA's and hubs, that angle need not be kept. I guess if you were making LCAs and keeping the stock hubs without adding or moving material to change the pickup, you'd have to keep it to keep misalignment down.

Interesting.

Yep, that angle also axially loads the joint, which is not great for a spherical bearing.

Sorry I was searching for the terminology

Somewhere I was reading up, they did mention that not all the cars have kingpins, or the ball joint acts as the kingpin or something. Oh well, I'll revise my terminology :)

Anyway, I'm just going to copy and paste my findings from last night's 2.5hrs of messing around on the front suspension yet again from the post I made over on NRR.



OK so I measured the diameter of the big adjuster piece that the rod end screws into on the FLCA, and it was 1" in diameter.

So I measured 1" up on the threads, and turns out, 1" of threads would basically make that adjuster useless, because there's only like 1.75" of threads total, and I couldn't really move it out much at all.

The rod end had more adjustment than that piece. With 8 full threads engaged, it stuck out quite a bit, which was helpful.

So I basically messed with the angle of the FLCA, and got a little more angle out of it by tilting it slightly forward. I did this by placing a washer between the rear hole (lawl) on the FLCA and the tension rod to space it up.

This allowed for a tiny bit more articulation before binding, but the reality is, the FLCA's angle is still not the same as the knuckle's, thus it binds.

I then looked over at the practically brand new stock arms to see why stock arms would work fine still for guys that are uber slammed, and it is because the stock ball joint actually allows for quite a bit of articulation, a lot more than the current FLCA setup.

So, I came to the conclusion that:

1) I need to take the bearing out of the arm and open up the bearing mount cup lip up top a bit more. Right now it's at 1-3/8, I would imagine that if I could find a step drill that has one size up on that, then drilling through the 1-3/8" step and creating a chamfer with the next step up will more than likely do the trick here.

2) I need to find a c-clip with a smaller I.D. so the c-clip does not become the next culprit in line to get binded up.

3) Because of the coilovers I am using, I have to figure out if I can find a nut that will extend the hex part up a little bit so the hex part does not bind up on the bearing cup part. I am currently running Stance GR+ coilovers.

If I can get all 3 of those things done, then I will have eliminated all the binding issues, and the only thing left to do at that point would be to cut off more of the endlink mounting bracket on the FLCA so the tie rods don't hit it.

I might straight up get it completely cut off and then worry about an endlink mounting solution later, as the current bracket is huge and in a weird spot.

Maybe i am the only one that didnt know this but....

the Driftworks offset spacers will not work with the SPL outters and z32 inner setup.

shit is too long and i have mad toe in with everything screwd all the way in.

I am going to cut the tie rod a little shorter and the spacer that connects the heim joint and the tie rod to make it shorter.

i will either fail miserably or succeed hahaha

updates tomorrow.

Well... that should have been common sense lol

The Z32 inners + SPL outters will get you to be able to get some toe out or zero toe, and by adding another like inch to it, what did you think was gonna happen? lol

Anyway, no real updates from me, other than I'm going to grind the spacer down a little where it will sit on the spherical bearings on the FLCA, and I might even grind down the lip on the bearing cup to get a little more room up top.

I'm also going to use a bigger snap ring to get a little more clearance on the bottom.

With these steps, I feel I should be able to get rid of the binding issues I've been having, at least with the FLCA. Might still bind up top at the camber plate though.

How much is the Driftworks offset spacer? Last time I payed attention to it, it wasn't for sale yet. That's why I was going to just go with the Dmax spacer; even though it isn't offset.

Im pretty sure you can go on driftworks.com and order it?

Brian Rogers posted his up for sale a few days ago and i saw them and snagged them up.

i think after shipping and everthing from england it comes out to like 250 ouch...

not what i paid though for sureee.

and they arent perfectly froward, they are a slight bit pointed up too.

so i guess that corrects a little bit more bumpsteer also?

New update... after i did the cutting i needed to do to get it to align right.

i bolt everything up, everything is cool.

but for some reason... i get ASSHOLE angle.

i used to get WAY more angle... now i cant even make a u-turn on my street.

wtf....

wow your ass has angle? lol

no bro.... THATS THE POINT, i dont get any angle anymore lol

Do the driftworks spacers let the rack go all the way to full extension, like a 6-7mm spacer on the inner tie rods does?

it looks as if it does yes.

but i get less turns on my steering wheel then before also.... so its clearly not.

maybe the fat spacer actually hits the rack itself, not letting it go in all the way?


My rack wasnt centered perfectly, so i did that today and got my alignment done.

it IS better, but still not as much angle as before... i cant make u-turns on my street damnit. LOl

probably going to end up modding my knuckles, even though i was trying to hold on and buy your stuff.

have a comp next weekend and then ASB in july though... FUCK

take the boot off and check and see? can you still hit the bumpspots??

i was planning to run these with the PBM SAK to stop the rack from over centering and binding...so im really interested in whats going on with yours.

Its probably because your tie rods are real short now, thus your tie rods hit the lower arms quicker than before.

I'm pretty sure that's what's happening.

no...

with my old setup, my tie rod ends would hit my LCA all day long lol there is basically a little notch in my control arm from them hitting.

now theyre like an inch and a half away from hitting.

wtf?

I also have less turns side to side on my steering wheel.

basically the spacers arent letting the rack fully extend each way... how annoyying.

You have an S13 or 14?

Because if you have a S13, you should have just gotten S14 LCAs.

I do have an s13.

but how are s14 lcas gunna prevent me from going over center?

They wouldn't have, but they would have let you run the tie rods at the length you had them.

Therefore keeping your angle and the spacers.

More than a few people have measured the S13 and S14 FLCA and found them to be the same length. I think the track difference might come from the front subframe. It's the same way in the rear.

UPDATE.

These either DONT work for s13. or i have some random rack of some sort.

Basically, the reason my steering rack wasnt centered anymore, and i got shit angle was because these spacers hit the rack and dont let it go in far enough.

but hey, driftworks thought about that, on one of the spacers, there is added material and the big part of the spacer is a little thinner.

Oh, stupid me, I put the spacers on the wrong side, let me swap them to fix all of my problems.

So I take them off and try to swap sides so they will actually work the way they are supposed too.

WRONG.

The pins on the spacer that mate with the rack line up but put the spacers pointing in the wrong direction.

And my drivers side spacer doesnt get tightened all the way.

meaning, fully tight there is play because the bolt is too long or something.

cool.

i emailed driftworks to see whats up, ill let you guys know what they say.

This is what im talking about.

These are the spacers

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2864.jpg

Here is the drivers side of my steering rack.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2860.jpg

So basically, the spacer on TOP in the picture above should go on the drivers side because of how the rack is correct?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2863.jpg

INCORRECT. That is how it sits when i put the spacer on the drivers side, and it doesnt get tightened all the way.

So lets try putting the other spacer on.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2865.jpg

Cool, it looks how it is supposed to look, but wait..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2866.jpg

the fat spacer hits the rack before it goes in enough.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ckSpacers7.jpg

This picture on the front page is the drivers side i am assuming by where the LCA is and which direction the tie rod is offset.

His rack CLEARLY looks different then mine.....

I am confused and lost. Someone please give me some clarity.

Right hand drive vrs left hand drive?

Holy shit i bet that is the problem....

fucking lamesauce 9 billion, i dont know why i didnt think of that.

well, since i ended up cutting my tie rod setup to make these work and now i cant go back to that because ites too short.

could i just make 2 little slots on the rack so i can make the spacer work?

You should probalby write that on the first page bro....

offset spacers are for the RHD onlyyyy lol

i will be making my own notches in the rack tomorrow to make these work.

cool story.

Wait, is it just me, or am I victim to the most widespread misinformation in the S-chassis community? Or I'm much more of a newb than I thought?

Dang neiko, that sucks. I wouldn't have thought of that either. Unfortunately the post is so old that I can't edit it anymore?

Hi Guys

I have been doing some work on using non-Nissan knuckles as a bolt on kit for the Silvia.

With this kit I hope to achieve:

• Infinite Height adjustability
• Infinite Roll Centre Adjustability
• Close to 0° Ackerman (For Drift Applications only) (Standard for Grip Racing)
• Use of R32, R33, R34 brakes (Also Working On Brembo 356mm Kit)
• 5 stud conversion
• Ability to use current Silvia coilovers
• Increased lock (A lot Of Lock)
• Adjustable LCA (Track / Camber)
• Adjustable Caster
• All joints will be fitted with Heim Joints
• Tie Rod Spacers For more Lock
• Rack Offset adaptors to eliminate Over centre Tie Rods

Also a 1UZ to Silvia Kit is in the near future! J

Once I have tested all of the components and am happy I will make a few sets so if anyone is interested please let me no.

I will release some more details once I have a few photos to show.

But please feel free to comment and ask questions.

Cheers
Adam
Missile Motorsport

That was an odd post.

but cool, i hope to see more!

this can't be right, many people have done the swap with major increase in negative camber being the main highlight of this. i just put s14 lca on my car..i will double check with my s13 lca that i still have laying around


btw nieko please put up pics once your done modding the rack, and what you had to do to make the spacers work! i have a spare rack that im gonna have to modify if im going to run these.

Yeah sorry for high jacking the thread with a random post that is off the current topic.

I am just chasing some input.

I will be using Toyota knuckels witch are of a much better design than the Nissan knuckel. I am also going to adapt these to my Commodore.

Cheers

Hey cool good news! Post up pix once they're done!

Sweet. Best of luck designing them.

I probably won't have the cash to throw down, but I'm sure whoever does will enjoy it.

As for the Driftworks spacers, that is quite annoying. Guess it is Dmax for me then.

Yeah its kinda weird that they dont have it posted on their site that it would only work for RHD.

oh well lol Pictures up hopefully tomorrow see if it all works.

Can someone explain this whole rhd rack thing? I thought they were the same as lhd, just for rhd cars. You'd think DW would mention some of the modifications needed to use the spacers (cut tie rods, rhd rack etc) like they did with the geomaster knuckles. Strikes me odd.

well if you think about it, they are not the exact same.

the steering column goes into the rack on the right side lol

the spacers would work fine but where the shaft slides into the rack is opposite on LHD compared to RHD.

look at the picture i posted of my rack and the picture on the first page.

the picture on the first page looks like my passenger side.

i feel like this post was quite confusing.

basically everything is flipped.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...G/100_2868.jpg

took me like 10 minutes to do the notching on both sides.

super easy, super straightfoward.

i also slanted them a LITTLE bit upwards hoping to correct a little bumpsteer.

was that a bad idea? lolol

The motor went in today so I was able to get some proper measurements for some stuff.

Def had been asking for this - although I am adding misalignment spacers which are ~12.5mm on the top and ~8mm on the bottom, so I'll have another 4-6mm I can put a spacer in if need be.

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension1.jpg

I spaced it down a little bit to just show how many threads are left on the shank (keep in mind ~20.5mms of it will be eaten up with misalignment spacers. You can actually see the silver misalignment spacer I will be using on my outer tie rod in the background. Sorry this is such a bad picture, haha.

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension2.jpg


Ok on the ground...just under 23" from the fender to the ground.
http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension3.jpg

If no one remembers, I cut the shit out of my fender frame rails to accommodate for how low I want to be.

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension4.jpg

~2 inches of space
http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension5.jpg



The shank is not tight, so it is spaced down a tad more then it will be when I have everything bolted up, but you can get the idea (please ignore the terrible 'bump stop' that is sticking up on the LCA, that is not staying):

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...uspension6.jpg

I am going to be putting my collar(s) back on top of my coilover mount to raise the car up 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch, because my oil pan clearance is a little scary...

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-conten...06/motor26.jpg

I am spacing the motor mounts up a 1/2 inch to get the oil pan well above the subframe (it's equal to it now), so between doing that and raising the car 1/4 of an inch I'll get another 3/4" of clearance on the oil pan and I will build a gnarly ass skid plate!

nice .

Coming together.

Which OEM oil pan is that aluminum one modeled after? GTO? I would have just changed the pan and pickup to keep the engine/trans as low as possible.

That pan already uses a shortened GTO pick-up. It is dead even with the subframe right now, so I think moving it up 1/2 an inch will make it safer and shouldn't mess with the weight balance much.

This motor sits WAY lower then my SR did. I can only see the tip of throttle body when I'm sitting in the driver's seat with the hood off. On my SR I could see the entire valve cover and intake manifold easily.

Nice, I guess I'd have to see it. How's your trans to top-of-tunnel clearance? 1/2" isn't going to hurt you there?

I'm seriously stoked you're finally coming together. I bet you're excited as hell.

I have to check that out, but it's already been beaten out a little...I can just get a bigger hammer, LOL.


I'm definitely stoked! I wish I could get a harness from you...maybe I can do that after I get it running since cash flow is tight right now.

This kpi everyone is talking about, can it be adjusted by coilovers with cambers adjustments on the bottom brackets, e.g. dmax? I figured you could just set the top plates to full positive to make the strut a little more vertical and just use the bottom bracket for camber adjustment. Or does that not change the inclination?

Yes, that will change it since it's the line from the top of the strut mount bearing/camber plate bearing to the balljoint. The thing with slotted coilover sleeves is it is a total PITA to get both sides the same and keep it there while torquing.

Apple can blow sometimes

Apple can blow sometimes

Awesome! I'm actually doing my LS1 harness right now, it was friiiiiiiiiiied. High mileage harnesses are absolute junk, wire falling out of connectors, etc. Using input from Stew (Jonny5) and Dai's FD S13 to make my cooling system a little more track-friendly, as well as putting together an affordable but baller oil cooler kit for LSx engines. Lots of LSx products to take all your moniez.

Yup, the Dmax coils (or any other lower adjusters that will actually hold the adjustment, not just slots in your circular ones) will let you adjust the "KPI".

Haha, I was stoked because my Grex oil cooler I bought for my SR and never used threads right into the flanges on the Sikky pan - WOOT!

You should post some cooling stuff on SilviaV8 so we don't clutter this thread, I want to know everything!

FOund these on Silviav8Forums.com. Looks like they're being copied and made in Russia now.

http://albert_nismo.users.photofile....e/88570873.jpg

More pix here...

http://drift.ru/albert/prodrift_knuckles.pdf

So that's 13.2 lbs for the pair? That's not terrible.


Are they getting custom spindle shank things (don't know what they're called) made or are they just cutting up stock spindles?

Except if you do that, the angle at the knuckle will become "too flat" at static ride height if you're really low, and the FLCA's spherical bearing/ball joint angle at that height will be much steeper than the knuckle's, causing binding.

To eliminate this, you either have to A) space the shit out of the FLCA to create a similar angle between the two, or B) lengthen the shit out of the FLCA so you can get the spherical bearing/ball joint in a sweet spot so that it will not bind when the knuckle rotates around.

To alleviate this problem, you have to either have a super high misalignment bearing mounted in a pretty open bearing cup that will allow for a shit ton of articulation, or a set of FLCAs that have a much less steep angle built into the bearing cups.

As a matter of fact, I meant to post a little update on my progress, and got sucked into replying about that post, so please pardon my double post, but my other post will not jive with this one, and it makes it easier for people to follow too....

Ready? GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

OK, a little update.

I took the bearing out and sort of sanded the bearing cup lip a bit up top where the spacer looked like it was hitting up front and in the back, and I also picked up these much thinner c-clips from ACE Hardware to replace the thick as hell GS ones.

Initial tests showed a little less binding, but I would still bind.

So I took the arm off and took the bearing back out, and switched to the routing bit for my dremel, after remembering I had a routing bit since I accidentally grabbed the wrong bit in the little storage compartment thingy on the carrying case.

This routing bit made short work of the metal this time around, and I was able to open up the bearing cup mount a little more in no time. I then used the sanding bit to clean it up to give it a nice smooth surface.

Went back and put everything back on and jacked the suspension back up to "normal ride height state" via my floor jack, and noticed the same binding at the same spot.

Took a look and saw there was light between the spacer and the bearing cup, and the washers weren't hitting the c-clip underneath. The nut on the camber plate up top wasn't hitting the bearing cup either.

So what was it?

It was this.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...00609-2025.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...00609-2026.jpg

Basically, the spacer and the shims underneath were both hitting the bearing itself, since both have an O.D. of 1.00x".

I then used the routing bit on the spacer and was able to get a nice chamfer on it with relative ease. The hard part was not having a bench vice to clamp it down so I can really do some work to it. All I had was a pair of pliers to hold it with :(

I also took one of the shims that go on the bottom and used the routing bit on it. It didn't work so well since it kept grabbing too much and ended up bouncing all over the place, or it would move the shim on the pliers.

I ended up taking the reinforced cutting disc to it, and using that mofo on the shim was like using a kitana to cut watermelon. Again, the only issue with this one was that, I had to hold it using pliers, which made it impossible to really get a nice even cut all the way around.

I reckon that if I can take 2 of the shims and shave them down a hundredth of an inch down more to match what I've got going on for the spacer up top, that I'd be able to get a little more articulation out of that bearing before it binds again.

Also, just to see how much room I've got to work with, I laid the brake rotor up over the hub to see how much I have to shave off of the outside of the bearing cup and little reinforcement plate thing that's welded to the front of the arm, which goes almost all the way around the bearing cup. Looks like I'm only going to have to shave down like 2mm to 3mm before the rotor is no longer touching the FLCA in anyway, and I can probably take most of that reinforcement plate down in the middle and gain more room.

Another thought for me was to perhaps add a little more spacing between the FLCA and knuckle, as that would give me a little better angle between the 2, and possibly give me the last bit of articulation before binding up at the bearing again.

That or have someone make me a copy of these arms with a much less dramatic bend upwards at the bearing cup so that I would have no problems what so ever at static ride height and have miles of room to go in either compression or droop.

In any case, that's the progress thus far.

You know what would be awesome. If you could get a rough angle measurement from your bearing. This way there can be a known angle that will NOT work, haha. I will get measurements on mine when I take the LCAs back off the car again.

Well, looking at this, I am thinking about maybe notching the spacer like this might help?

http://qa1.thomasnet.com/Asset/a0001535.jpg

Or maybe enlarging the bore of the bearing cup a little more to fit this bad boy in there?

Part Number YPB12T, YPB-T and YPB-TG Series Spherical Bearings on QA1 Precision Products, Inc.

yea baby go mother russia woohoo!!!!! Are they 100% the same. I just checked the PDF... 600 bux for a group buy that's sick. That's 14.59lbs im guessing its in kilos (for both...) so that's like 7lbs each!

Man even though I'm not into drifting i see some bad ass stuff there LOL they got drift ladas yaaaa. I wish i understood russian lol:

http://drift.ru/cimg/art/fd_2009_2_p2/58.jpg

Update since notching/install?

He updated on his Socal-Drift build thread:

The BOSS Build Thread. - Page 13 - Socal-Drift

Ok, so I am not sure if this issue has been covered with the parts shop max steering knuckles or not.

They drop the tie rod end's down, which is good, but you cant adjust them back up to stock if need be. Also, they correct roll center issues with the tie rods, but what about the lower control arm. That still mounts in stock location, so when the wheel travels up and down the lca and the tie rods will not be working together how they were designed to in stock layout.

This was brought up to me by Shinji Minawa when I asked him if he would weld them together for me if I ordered their parts kit. He said they he, and many other people who started making knuckles 6 or 7 years ago tried this and failed. I want to know if I am missing something or not. I really wanted these knuckles but I am not sure if they are going to be worth it. I LOVE everything else that I have ever owned from PSM, just a little unsure now after talking to Shinji.

1. Why would you want your tie rods at the stock location if you're lowered?

2. PSM knuckles do nothing for roll center. Nothing at all.

3. As much as people freak out about the tie rod and LCA curves being the same, it's been widely proven that this is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be, and you can improve bump steer by spacing the tie rod ends.

4. Many people have used PSM knuckles. They have worked fine for what they are. In fact, Matt Powers has hit the wall a couple times, and the only thing that has survived are the knuckles. If you're really worried, just send your knuckles to PSM to have them weld them.

I understand that you can improve bump steer by lowering the tie rod ends on a lowered car.

The parts shop max knuckles lower the tie rod ends, doesn't this affect the roll center in some way?

Do you have any actual proof, other than hear say, that the lca's and tie rods having different geometry from each other (the fact that they are no longer parallel to each other) has no negative effect on the car?

If there is a negative effect because of the LCA, what do you do to correct that?

Since their knuckles are so different, why hasn't anybody else taken this approach?

Roll center is calculated by the pivot points of the lower control arms, not the tie rods. Having tie rods some what parallel to lca helps eliminate bumpsteer, not roll center.

When the tie rod is spaced down and the LCA is not then you help correct bump steer. Correcting bump steer and not correcting roll center isn't a negative thing, it just isn't perfect. You ideally want to correct them both, but there is no affordable piece you can just buy and fix it, you'll have to make something if you want it to be cost effective.

You can't space the tie rods down much with the stock FLCA. From the little bit of data I collected on my car with stock FLCA, spacing the tie rods down about .5" was decent for bumpsteer. The PSM stuff spaces it down WAY more than this, and my data showed it to make the bumpsteer very bad.

That said, drifting doesn't really follow the traditional rules on setup, so you could possibly get a better response at high angle by using a bit of bumpsteer to help correct for ackermann etc.

Well, let's see. I had SPL v4 tie rod ends spaced down one inch from stock. My car was just on top of the tread on 195/60/15s. Car had way less bumpsteer than stock, and I liked the way it felt more than spaced down .75 inch. Tie rods were parallel with the FLCAs.

How far down to the max knuckles drop the tie rod ends...looks like about 2 inches...can you drop the ends down too low?

wtf guys, im so lost. any website i can read this in english? this confused the hell out of me

The first prototype PSM knuckles!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...knuckletop.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...PSMknuckle.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...nuckleside.jpg

These look to be somewhere between stock and driftworks (need a side by side), so they may just be perfect. Come with heim joints as well.

Man am I glad I waited this out. Front aluminum knuckles coming out, rear drop knuckles going to be available stateside, so excited!

any idea how much they much alter the hub position?

hub position should remain the same. it just changes all your pickup locations for suspension arms/coilovers.

eh i like driftworks cause i really wana go low and have maximum correction... shock travel aint so much a problem since ill be cutting the car up :)

Which is the same as changing your hub position. Raising the hub or dropping the suspension pickup points. Same thing.

They were originally saying 3/4 of an inch, or 20mm. Don't know if that's what they stuck with or not.

PBM is gonna be doing aluminum knuckles?


awesome

Did they just move the pick up points up on the knuckle a little bit?

PoorMan - Can you explain to me how the hub position is changed with the rear knuckles...I am having a hard time visualizing this right now. Thanks!

If you move the pick up points on the knuckle, you technically move the hub up.

The way I picture it is backwards. I see that that when you raise the pickups or extend them out the hub stay's in the same location. I just can't picture how the hub changes I guess. So is the idea to keep the hub as close to stock location as possible while modifying the pickup points?

^ Imagine how your car sits now, and the hub position relative to the knuckle it's attached to and imagine keeping your knuckle, suspension arms, etc in the same location. Now mentally detach the and take the hub, which is connected to the wheel and move it upwards 90 degrees to any distance allowed by the wheel well. What happens as the wheel moves closer into the wheel well? The car sits lower correct? In lieu of lowering your car with your coilovers, use the imaginary knuckles to move your wheel closer into the wheel well resulting in a lowered ride, with the same suspension geometry as was before using the coilovers.

Another, crude way of thinking about it is say there's no such thing as coilovers but a fixed shock - you CANNOT adjust it. Now add the knuckles. Ta-da, a lower car with the same suspension geometry. Does it necessarily mean you change the pick up points? I wouldn't think so. For a multilink suspension, I'd be cautious to, but in my opinion I'd be at ease knowing they didn't change, otherwise there's a great benefit in having a unit that has adjustable pickup points (one of DEF's goals developing his front knuckles).

ok, I see how the hub is being changed, so by using knuckles to help lower the car as well, you then correct roll center?

Only if the knuckles are made with roll centre correction built into them.

Actually, I interpreted it as "Yes". The knuckles lower you car so you don't have to lower it via coilovers, therefore keeping/fixing your roll center?

The knuckles don't lower it significantly. driftworks knuckles lower it 45-55mm... And the PSM are even less apparently.
I'm pretty sure the idea was to be able to lower it significantly, bot not entirely on the coilover. But it still needs roll centre correction. So it's built in to the knuckle.

However, if I am wrong, someone correct me.


Now.. lets use drop spindles and that extreme subframe mod!! :rawk:

You don't necessarily "correct" roll center as there's no defined/ideal height, but you minimize the CG (center of gravity) and RC (Roll Center) distance called the moment arm which determines the amount of roll you encounter during lateral acceleration.

http://image.modified.com/f/15587591...of_gravity.jpg

More in depth explanation found HERE.

It's said to be 45mm in the front, and 50mm in the rear. BTW, 50mm is nearly 2 inches. That's pretty significant.

Except for the fact that raising your subframe that much is a bad idea. You will have zero squat and zero traction.

This is true.

Those, good sir, are steel.



Thought it was interesting how little of a difference there seems to be between the distances the hub bolts are from the camber arm pickup between the PSM and Driftworks knuckles:

http://sp-tec.com/shop/goods_image/A29_Z1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...knuckletop.jpg

Maybe I'm just bad at judging things visually? Maybe PSM dropped the knuckle more? Maybe Driftworks dropped the knuckle less?

And maybe this is just me too, but doesn't it look like the PSM knuckle is more "compact" vertically? There seem to be a lot of small differences between all three knuckles.

Dan from Parts Shop MAX mentioned that it looks like Driftworks drops the lower control arms more than the rest, and the fact that you can't raise the hub more than 25mm and not make the axle boot contact the camber arm.

I didn't mean modified knuckles was the proper/only way to lower a vehicle, but rather they could lower your car without changing the roll couple. That's something coilovers cannot do.

I agree that the psm knuckles look alittle more "compact", but I think it's b/c they cut down on a lot of material and the welds make it look like there's a lot more going on than there really is.

I do like how big the pick up points are compared to the DW though.

True.. 2'' is a lot. But, I guess it depends on one views. For me. I kinda wanna have my balls dragging on the floor low. And still have correct(ed) geometry. So to me. 2'' doesn't seem like much, lol

How is raising the subframe bad though? I thought raisng it was a good thing, as it would increase traction. Hence why companies sell the risers that put it up against the frames.
Or is it just that a SEVERE amount is bad?

True. I must have misinterpreted what you said. My bad.