STL Riots
 

Wondering how many people on here are watching this and if anyone is listening to the scanners tonight...its getting heavy. Armed groups walking down the street, multiple shots fired, looting every night, curfew enforced...

Download "Scanner radio" app and tune into St. Louis County Police Dispatch - 1st Pct. and get a real picture of whats going on...

Whats your opinions and what you have seen or heard

This fellow sums it up quite well:
http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/...ack-community/

Yes Ferguson, which is St. Louis County

If all the clips from this video are real, it's a pretty messed up situation:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e25_1408413667
And even if not all them are, this has gone too far. Looting and rioting is not necessary, all these people are just using it the situation as an excuse. Cops "mistakenly" kill innocent and not so innocent people all the time, but god forbids that person happens to be black because all hell breaks loose...
Last year a local college student was wrongfully shot and killed by a campus police officer. He was white. And guess what? Yupp, no rioting nor looting.
They need to be stopped, and they are asking for more force.

I read someone's comment on youtube about how in the long run this rioting is a good thing for America. Now I do not quite completely agree, but I understand his point.

Civil unrest is part of our duty, believe it or not. The government has been fucking everyone for way too long. By causing "chaos" from their actions, Ferguson demonstrated that they will not take government bull shit. However, I understand that this was essentially selfishly motivated to come up from looting.

But this reaction, I believe is better than none. It demonstrates to the government that people are still not afraid to stand up. If you anger the community, there will be a reaction. Reminds the police to think carefully about just wasting someone. Reminds the government to remember who their true boss is.

And feito, is it a good thing that a local college student was wrongfully shot and killed by a campus police officer and to not have a reaction?

Imagine if every time an innocent person was shot by the pigs and there was no reaction to it? They would think it is perfectly ok to go around killing people because people won't do anything.

I would definitely rather there be rioting, chaos, and looting than no reaction at all. That in the long run is better for America.

Of course, rioting could probably be done without looting. But I mean, if your a business owner, buy yourself a gun and shoot some fuckers trying to loot you. That will definitely make them think twice about hitting your store.

Ya, and once the store owner shoots someone trying to loot from his/her store it turns into "unarmed man shot" bs all over the media. Its all a load of bull shit.

another dude was shot and killed last night by police.

doesn't look like it's coolin down over there anytime soon...

pretty fucked up that police are targeting the press too.

They need to get over the bullshit that cops are after black americans gimmie a break,This is why people are racist and its kinda hard not to be when you see these jackasses looting and destroying there own shit because a guy decided to strong arm rob a store and got killed.:facepalm:

they just use it as an excuse to start drama.People need to relise that mistakes are made and not to go on a rampage over one stupid incodent.

the cop that killed him had no clue of him robbing that store and does stealing deserve for him to be shot 6 times and killed. He should've been arrest and let the justice system take over from there. Police are not employed to kill people ,theyre here to protect and serve, killing a person no matter what they've done is unacceptable thats why we have the justice system

^ The cop was punched in the face by Mike Brown rupturing his eye socket before he got out of the car, they say...kid ran then turned around back at cop to charge him, then cop fired 6 rounds. Don't quote me for facts, this is just what I am reading...no one will really know until witnesses come forward.

Something that bothers me is that Ferguson PD has dash cams for all their cars...still in the box...at the station. They were never installed...idiots.

Now I totally agree that this dude was a punk thug trynna be tough but no matter what he definitely didn't deserve to die he shouldve been arrested and thrown in jail not shot 6 times...from the autopsy report it says that these shots were not from close range but from far....He was shot from behind and also from the front but like u said we won't know until witnesses come forward and confirm the officers story...yeah they definitely shouldve had those cameras installed smh smh

Looting/rioting makes us look like a bunch of uncivilized fools. Everything turns into a race issue way too fast. If Mike Brown would have killed the cop what would have happened? it probably wouldnt have made it past the local news. Put yourself in law enforcements shoes and tell me you wouldnt fire if you felt your life was in danger.

Some of the members of the press are there breaking the imposed curfew along with the rioters and instigating ill will just so they have exciting news to cover.

Yeah I agree we definitely shouldn't be rioting n looting smh but protest is a good thing but I really don't think it's about race it's about these cops shooting to kill people r fed up...just like the two black cops n NY that beat a man and people are outraged by it and want the police to stop harassing people over BS I should be able to walk drive jog ride my bike without being harassed because I "LOOK" a certain way...and they're trained to protect themselves yes and they should when in "danger" there's no way an unarmed teenager can make a grown man feel that scared for his life to where he has to shoot him six times n kill him...He didn't have to kill him is all I'm saying

That is a terrible idea. If you're a business owner, purchase insurance. When a mob of angry looting rioters start destroying your business, GTFO with your life and collect insurance. Even if you have extensive firepower, you can easily be overwhelmed by a large enough mob. Not to mention those who will come for revenge for their fallen loved ones. It's not like it's your home...

LOL. Ever heard of the Koreans during the LA Riots?

So its a terrible idea to protect whats yours? Sure its dangerous, or you could just be a bitch and get looted. I don't know about you, but if I was in the situation, I would stay and protect my store, which I am legally allowed to, that I put blood,sweat, and tears in.

You seriously think that a large mob, that has to single file through your door, is down for the people in front to get mowed down? Fuck no. You shoot several of them and they will not visit your store again.

I think it's easy to play keyboard warrior and cop when you aren't in the situation. Noone of us know exactly how it went down, and we may never know. I hope that justice is done and people find closure in all of this. Mistakes were probably made by both sides, well because we are all human and we do make mistakes.

exactly...

but even though we're not totally sure what happened with brown, the problem is the police have way too much power. im sure all of you that have been following whats going on in ferguson have seen everything about the 'militarization of the police'. theyre driving around in armored cars with mounted turrets...

http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.co...e-2.jpg?w=1680

they can pretty much get away with anything they want nowadays. so i think its good that there is some reaction to an incident like this and that were all talking about it now. im not justifying looting or saying its the right way of going about it, im just saying it shouldn't be such a normal and mundane thing when the police shoot and kill someone who's unarmed that nothing is done about it.

What about when the rioters shot a civilian, and the police went in under fire to rescue and treat them? Normal cop cars wouldn't be able to take much direct fire. What happens if it's found that Mike Brown did assault and beat the cop, and shooting him was completely justified? People scream for the cops head on a platter while in the next breath say that Mike Brown was innocent until proven guilty...

^^^^^ smh smh they're geared up as if they're about to go to war smh although I don't condone the rioting n looting cus really that shit ain't got nothing to do with Mike brown at this point...but ur right the police have way to much power and they exercise that power on a daily basis especially here in Cali

Even if he did assault him it doesn't deserve for him to be SHOT 6 TIMES and killed, use a tazer, shoot him n the leg I mean the kid was unarmed n probably did take a swing but that officer is a trained specialist on how to apprehend criminals without killing them, especially unarmed and if he can't use his training to resolve the situation without having to kill...he/she needs to find a new job

i havent read or heard about this. do you have a link to the story? would like to read.

thats why i quoted your previous post and agreed... we're not totally sure what happened and what prompted him to shoot him SIX times.

and the reason why people are angry at the officer and want it to be a criminal investigation is because these kinds of incidents seem to be getting more and more common with absolutely no accountability or repercussions for their actions. cops should be held to a higher standard. they're public servants that are paid by the tax payer. the penalties for doing anything to a police officer are way more severe than if the same crime were done to a normal citizen.

if someone were to ever shoot a police officer six times with no arrest/criminal investigation being done afterwards, im sure it would be just as big of a deal...

seriously, do you think if michael brown shot the police officer six times because he was allegedly assaulting him you would be saying "well maybe we'll find out the police officer had it coming to him and everything was totally justified" no... and brown would be serving life

It was in an on scene interview with the newly appointed chief of police. No surprise it isn't widely known, that would go against oh so many agendas

The LA riots were a special circumstance. the Koreans fought together... and their stores still got fucked up. You as a lone shop owner would not fair the same. Let's say you fended them off. You better pack up and move because even after the riot, you would not be safe. They wouldn't just forget about you killing their family members. People with that mindset would say their brother, sister, son, daughter, etc was justified in rioting... but you the racist shop owner killed them...

I guess you are right in a way. It aint right for us not to do anything when an innocent civilian gets shot by the police, especially when it keeps happening. But, if you are pissed at the police or your authorities, why dont you go after them then? Go break into the city hall and the police stations and shi+
You see, even if for any reason I could stop them/scare them off on my own, maybe by killing a few and somehow the rest of them decide to back off, they will eventually come back, and they will hunt you at your house or wherever they can find you because like someone else said, that's their mentality, eventhou they know they're on the wrong they'll sick revenge. And you know what the difference between these kind of people (NOTE: kind, not race) and us is? These people are not afraid of prison, in their mentality they'll do a few years like doing college, and they'll come out being better criminals.

Pointing fully automatic weapons is a very bad idea. You want to win the population not make them hate you even more
we only learned this after 15 years in afghanistan

I'm glad these protests and rioting are happening. Unfortunate this kid had to die to wake up the nation on the militarization police forces. Police need to start being held accountable, and trained not to use deadly force as the first option. They do it because it's easy to get away with

And where's the NRA/OpenCarry/Tea Party militias? Isn't this the exact scenario theyve been preaching about for years? I know why

People have been protecting their stores in Ferguson like this

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-c...too-parlor.jpg

You wouldn't be glad these riots were happening if they were in your town.

The guy was some scumbag hooligan wannabe thug and I am pretty sure the officer did not just decide to shoot him for no reason. Bet all the individuals painting Michael Brown as a saint are the same people who would think twice about sitting next to him on public transportation late at night.
I am against the police as much as the next law-abiding resident, but this is not the right incident to rally behind.

Black people are the real racist.

.........


..................

What about it?

Are you serious?

Regardless of whatever - People need to understand a few things.

Most officers are poorly trained when it comes to using a fire-arm. Departments typically require some in class training and annual qualification. Qualification is typically shoot 5 rounds into a man-size target at 15 feet and demonstrate you can reload and properly draw your weapon.

:facepalm:

There is also the adrenaline factor. Everyone is yelling, tense, weapons draw and "pop". This is why most cops struggle when asked "who fired first" or "why did you fire"? Someone fired... then they all fire, many times pulling the trigger until the target is visually down or they are out of ammo.

30 years ago out of ammo met 5-7 shots total. (Revolvers, 1911). Today, out of ammo means 12-17 shots... each. This is why you see "cops fired 37 times..." or "suspect shot 6 times".

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/...-master495.jpg

Notice these are all terrible shot placement. It was not like the cop shot him 6 times in the chest. Those arm wounds are non-life threatening and would have done little to deter a close range assailant. Also, in the video, notice how fast those shots are fired. It's not long-range sniper stuff. Popopopop..... *guy falls down*

This isn't to excuse any of these cops - it's to explain why this stuff happens the way it does.

Several studies actually showed cops accuracy dropped dramatically with the transition from Revolvers to Semi-Autos and accidental firing, injury and other such incidence have increased.

http://americancopmagazine.com/legac...ied-revolvers/


This will blow your mind - China will start letting police cary fire arms...
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2...ke-any-others/

Wow. Fucking cunt pigs. You're not suppose to shoot someone just because they told you to...

I have been told this by a pig. The reason every pig opens fire is to support the person who fired the first shot. When every pig shoots, it shows that all of them thought theirs or someone else's life was threatened.

Other cops will get mad at you if they opened fire and you did not, because it demonstrates that you thought there was no threat. Ever hear of the blue shield? Gangster pigs out to get us. Watch out.

Did you guys hear about the bank robbers in Stockton? The bank robbers took a hostage and all the pigs turned them into swiss cheese, including the hostage. So if someone takes you as a hostage, you better pray the cops don't show up.

Corbic, I'm not sure if what you just posted is relevant to the post of mine you quoted. As far as cops shooting people lots of times, that wasn't really what I was on about.

I assume you watched the video... I'm not trying to totally take what you said out of context, but you're not trying to justify what happened in that video just because of poor training and an adrenaline factor are you? Why did the officer even have to fire at all is the real question, not why did they fire almost 10 times. Again, I'm referring to the video not the Brown incident.

Another thing worth noting, as the news is bitching about it...

Black Cops.

The news made a squawk about how there are not enough black cops in Fergy land. Back in school we covered this general problem ad nauseam as there has been lots of research in the last 30 years on it.

A. It's hard to find qualified canadits. To be a police officer you have to graduate high school, have a clean police record, never have done drugs (been caught), be at least 20-21 and many areas now require some form of a post high school degree.

1 in 15 Black men is in jail and 1 in 3 is likely to be arrested at some point in his life. Those individuals that do qualify - having remained out of trouble, gone to school entered college - typically want NOTHING TO DO WITH Law Enforcement. They see better opportunities else where.

B. It doesn't do shit. Black offers actually play right into the stereo type of "cops go easy on whites and hard on colors". This is two fold -

First it's the "your making us look back" mentality. A black cop worked hard together and likely has an axel to grind with all the gang-bangers and trouble makers from his home town. He's not about to cut some punk slack just because they share skin-tone. Many interviewed officers say they are just tired of these kids and trouble makers making the community look bad. Additionally, black officers don't want to make trouble, so they often go easier on white suspects because last thing they want to deal with is a "omfg mean black cop yelled at my blonde daughter" non-sense.

Second - Brotherhood. For any cop, fellow cops become family. For black officers, blue becomes the new skin tone. Their fellow cops, whether white or brown or black mean more then whatever racial community they come from and they act accordingly.

C. Uncle Tom - believe it or not, while the communities often cry how unfair it is and how they want more representation from their own racial group - those cops from the area that are that same genetic background then get treated like crap. Many of these communities hate the police and to see a "black man" acting like a "white cop" just enrages them as a "kid from the suburbs coming into the hood" does. These black officers get treated especially harshly and in turn grow bitter to their own community which goes back to Reason A and B

D. Fuck this shit : Politicians often want cops to be from where they police. Thats cool in a nice upscale community* but as a cop, the last thing you wan to be is living next to the meth house or gang-club that you just raided. Worse yet, you know what a shit hole areas are so you don't want your family anywhere near it. It's a safety issue. So even if you higher local black officers, they quickly get the hell out of dodge.

Basically 30 years of research shows that the issue is not one of race. People assume a black-cop will get along with an understand a black community better. The problem isn't skin color but culture and context. A black cop is still a cop and sees the world as a cop. The community, regardless of race, still sees the world the way they do - so gang bangers are still bangers, hipster and tree huggers are still pussies and meth heads are still tweakers. So no mater what, that divide still exists.

* it's also hard to "community police" upscale areas as cops can't afford to live in those areas - but then we don't hear people crying about needing more cops to live in those communities... :picardfp:

There are a bunch of other black people in the video. How come they did not shoot them all for no reason?

Suicide by police is actually more common than one may think. Legally, they have a right to shoot you for the slightest movement indicating you are intending to touch them or reach for their weapon. Yes, it is kind of silly how scared they apparently are of everyone, but at the same time people should know better than to approach them when being screamed at not to.

The guy had a knife by the way, if you cannot tell from the video.

Yes, I read he had a knife. I didn't say if anything about the officer's legal right to shoot the man.

Obviously, there will not be any repercussions for killing the man because it was justified and the right thing to do...

If you seriously think that the best way to handle that situation was to fill the guy full of lead just because he walked toward them then maybe you should pursue a career in law enforcement. There was definitely no way the officers could have diffused the situation or used non-lethal force. Right?

Quick edit: As far as this being a racial incident, I don't really think it is. If the guy was white they would have probably shot him just as many times.

im just surprised at the discussion here....

dude got shot and killed... i mean, cops filled him full of lead.

so.


cop A and B never thought once of shooting the guy in the leg?

its a fucking KNIFE, not a nuclear bomb. cap the guy ONCE in the leg, he's down and out... problem solved.

nope. lets kill the motherfucker.

anyway, i hate offtopic. i just wanted to add that video since i stumbled into it today.

The ironic thing is that my brother just graduated from the police academy a few weeks ago and the guys in the video did everything they were taught by the book. This is exactly the kind of stuff they trained. Take out the threat as quickly as possible with multiple shots to make sure they do not retaliate. Do not aim for the legs because it is a tough shot to make in the heat of the moment, plus while you are looking down you can lose track of what they are doing with their hands. Apparently when someone is pumped full of adrenaline, it may take multiple shots in the legs to take them down, which is especially risky when they are a few steps away from you, or whatever, I am not the expert.

I never said I agree with their methods. In fact, I find most of them ridiculous and over the top and I think police officers act like sissies who are constantly afraid of everyone so they shoot as soon as someone looks at them wrong, just in case. But at the same time, if you think that you can approach a cop with a knife and they are going to baby talk you out of it or something, then good luck. Why give them a reason to point their guns at you in the first place?

This isn't the movies you don't aim for the legs or arms. Cop shoots someone in the leg, he gets sued. You don't approach a cop brandishing a knife either.

Lol, I was just reading over this thread and thought, "Either Matej or someone in his family is a cop..."

So, The Atlantic posted an article about the incident that quoted another journalist who said what I have quoted below. I think it somewhat captures what I think about what happened. And about the police "baby talking you out of it", the police should have some skills in talking to people who are agitated and angry and know how to not make a bad situation that much worse. The police should protect and serve not just kill a guy and drag his corpse off when someone calls about a disturbance/domestic dispute.

Guy in the video aprouched the cops with a knife. The shooting was justified.
Brown was stopped for Jay walking, hurt a cops pride by tussling his arm away and was chased down and executed. Not justified.

Dont know what happened with Brown. Given the video of the convenient store, who knows?


The guy with the steak knife? Yeah, should have been tasered. That incident could have gone a million times differently. Its almost like they showed up anticipating it.

On the other hand, the fool stole from the store and then waited like he was some kind of martyr or had something to prove to the cops.

While he does make mention of social media and it looked like a stint, its just all around bad news...

Super soaker filled with bear mace would have solved the problem with the charging knife lunatic.

No I wouldn't, however if its for the good of the nation and the rights of the people, i'd for damn sure be out there protesting as well, my neighborhood or not

I don't give a damn if he was a scumbag, a saint or whatever. Police don't have the right to act as executioner of an unarmed civilian. A lack of police accountability leads to the perversion of the law
And no this may not be the ideal event to act behind, but it's waking up the nation to the idea of police militarization and excess of force

everyone is racist

Mace would have been quite efficient. Or a tazer. But cops like to use bullets in the poor communities more

Escalation of force is the answer. How often do most police use this anymore? They don't have to because they get away with shooting a motherfucker in the dome as first response.
Lack of accountability from the public

I completely agree. If someone comes at you with a lethal weapon, kill the asshole
Vid of the most recent shooting. 9 shots? Plenty of time for a tazer
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6051377...Kajieme-Powell

So many contradictions in your post.

please explain
I even provided you a video of the recent shooting

Theres a petition on whitehouse DOT gov that you can sign asking that all police officers have to wear a camera on them so that all this bull shit isnt always speculation

maybe some one should make a thread about that instead of a 25 yr car import law

if you dont recognize that the police in this country is getting out of hand and have entirely to much power and ZERO accountability than your not paying attension

im not black but even i reliaze that the black community have a history of opression in this country (dUHHH)

JAMES HOLMES who killed 12 people was arrested and brought out with some dignity by police officers... the media even showed his high school grad picture and tried to say he was a good kid....

mike brown was shot and killed and witnesses all say the same thing
he had his hands up saying "dont shoot"

and the media is showing the absolute worst pictures of him found on the internet loll we all have bad pictures that make us out to look like a thug, doesnt mean we are one


remeber the trayvon martin shit, all they seemed to care about was that he was suspended from school and smoke weed once or twice, who the fuck hasnt honestly... does that make you a thug
so to say that people are just "using the race card" or to even hint that race had nothing to do with mike browns murder is having rose colored glasses

people dont just wake up saying, Gee, i sure hope i get to use my race card today


as stated above, its not exactly a good thing people are rioting BUT if they didnt it would show that they werent concerned about the issue... woudnt you be fucking pissed off if your cousin/brother/friend or whatever was murdered? what would you do exactly?

STL Riots
 

Accept police will argue the world is an ever more dangerous place.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html

In 2012 Wiki estimates "nearly" 400 people where killed by police - many none of us would argue clearly deserved it.

You can see the link above - 122 officers where killed by people in 2012.


As for cameras, great - whose paying for them?

Second- it won't do shit to stop the Monday night quarterbacking and bitching about race.

Yeah whatever. It was to show he was a trouble making thug that got in a fist fight with zims. Not an innocent alter boy gun down by a Neo nazi Klan member.

Remember how the media made a huge deal about how that "mix race ker " Zimmerman was supposedly white? How they edited the 911 tapes to make it sound like he was following him cause "he looks black!"....leaving out the operators request to know the suspects race...

exactly, eliminate the threat

a cop was almost beat to death at the mall 3 miles from my house a week ago. even people with no weapons can be dangerous. the cop probably would have died if it wasnt for a citizen who pushed the guy off the cop.

[QUOTE=Corbic;5706721]Accept police will argue the world is an ever more dangerous place.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html

As for cameras, great - whose paying for them?

QUOTE]

grants?
maybe taxes, id feel great knowing that my tax money would go to this
if we can pay billions for rockets and tanks and the war can we not fund this??

no it wont stop armchair reporters, but thats not the point of the cameras..
its to hold some one accountable in the justice system, not to please some dumbass who complains about the system but does nothing about it



and i wouldnt dismiss the race/class issue as "bitching"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7XX_jI0PI

watch that... she makes valid points
she also mentions Rilato CA police department and how they have cameras on each officer and police complaints about misconduct have dropped dramatically

Regardless of where one stands on this issue, there is some strong misinformation in this thread.

- I can tell you I have witness cops profile every color, sometimes it has to do with age and time, sometimes race, whatever. They are taught statistics and look for that. This is fair, its part of life and keeping communities safe. I have been wrongly harassed before, it ended up being just fine. I may have been angered at the time of the irritation, however after I calmed down I could rationalize why - the officer is simply doing their job.

- Applying more tax money elsewhere would be a nightmare being we are further and further in a drowning pool of national debt and our schools continue to take a large beating with funding. No offense, but it is fairly obvious you are young when a comment like that is made.

- People need to be VERY wary of media coverage of events like this. They ABSOLUTELY have agendas and do studies to learn how to gain viewers and attention. Regardless of which side was wrong, 2 cases in this very thread which have been mentioned - Brown and Martin were both STRONGLY mishandled by the national media to create outrage and controversy which ups their ratings, viewership, and coverage exposure and it's probably worthy to note that if you study up on politicians involvement with national media sources you may be surprised at the findings and may understand some of the bias that exist in reporting today.

Example: The media portraying Brown as a "Kid", he was 18 years old 292 pounds and 6 foot 4? Robbed a store, so clearly didn't make wonderful life or logically impressive decisions. 18 is a legal adult, strong armed robbery is a felony. He was an adult felon. How does "Cop shoots adult felon in self-defense" sound? Not like much of a major headline.

Example 2: In the Martin case showing pictures when he was between 12-14, showing a picture of Zimmerman in orange (tricking the mind into thinking prison uniform), portraying him as white, editing 911 tapes, he was carrying "tea", etc.

The media absolutely sparks much of the controversy that exist today, it helps their business.

- Wrongs absolutely happen within the police force, and many today are quick to point fingers and throw the flag. I do feel many are on a power trip, and at times overstep their boundaries. What's funny is the amount of people who would probably (though never admittedly) would never have the BALLS to do the job they do. Every day they face a danger, when they pull over a car for speeding, who knows if that guy is packing drugs and has a Glock under the front seat. They could get a call to a shooting and instantly put their life in danger to help others. So many more instances that we would probably absolutely freeze in, or even pee ourselves in if it happened to us. That doesn't excuse it however - the ones who do abuse the badge. The problem is this particular case has no proof to support that.

- Statistics show (like has already been said in this thread prior) that when instances of self defense occur, especially when one is surprised by incident and not expecting it, the amount of shots can increase, inaccuracy goes up, loss of memory, etc. Adrenaline among panic does funny stuff to the human brain and body, anybody who has ever been in a traumatic circumstance can tell you that. It is also a basic foundation of psychology when dealing with instances of trauma.

- Not all of the witness statements said he did nothing, by the way. In fact - the most important of all witness statements (made by the friend of Brown) has been completely blown up by evidence and autopsy findings. There are a mix of witness reports, some of which absolutely coincide with the Police forces side of the story.

I am not one for strong militarization of our police force, strong central government, this that and the other. I think our constitution is ran over today, the whole reason our founding fathers formed the states and created America serves no purpose anymore and that is SCARY. I think it is humorous that many of the people who don't want the "militarization" of the police force are the same people who are fine with the gun control laws. The whole reason the founding fathers wanted the right to bare arms was to protect against an all empowering oppressive government - how's that for a knowledge drop?

Shoot, I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes for cameras. That would stop all these "lack of..." non-sense that myself personally, thinks its entire bullshit at times. I'm not just talking about in this particular situation either. Make it required to wear one for whenever your on duty, doesn't matter if it's a full blown OK Carrol shootout or a giving a ticket because the parking meter expired. Lack of evidence, lack of accountability, lack of witnesses, lack of "clear video angles" etc. etc. etc. just makes things extremely complicated and I'm sure make things much harder for investigators. Having these cams, would give us first hand into the view of the officer and whatever the opposing force is. I believe it would give a personal account of how the officer was thinking, the way he/she acted and why he/she acted in the manner he/she does. You'll be able to evaluate the threat level of the task, answer "was the officer actions necessary for the given conflict" and kill off a lot of the hearsay like in this incident we have here and in many others to come.

I agree. It's been said NUMEROUS of times that we have arguably the most broken, worst, backwards police/justice system in the world. We have a lot of demons in the closet to deal with in our country.

Racism is much more complicated now then it was back then. Racism now have become a racial/class kind of thing. Which in turns, makes everything even more "explosive". It's not just painted white and black anymore...It's a socioeconomic thing now.

Any sources for this? I never heard mention of this before.

Are you for real?

I'll post it up latter. Someone even got fired at MSNBC after the fact (iirc).

If you truly and honestly think that we have one of the worst justice systems in the world you really don't have much of a grasp of much of the world.

It is far from perfect, and certainly has major hiccups from time to time. Our government is far from perfect, it is the idea of democracy, which is a fond idea but like ANY form can't be done %100.

That doesn't mean it is the worst. There are parts of the world where the police are paid off, the government restricts voters, etc. We are far from the worst.

Yes. I never heard of the edited situation.

I dont watch MSNBC.

IMO, I believe we do have a pretty screwed up the system. That paragraph I took from a CNN/MSNBC source (I'll post it up in another post) that had interesting information regarding that.

I should also say, in IMO when you compared 1ST WORLD (which is would be much more accurate then saying the entire world, which the article imply) we have a "much in need to be fixed" system. A booming incarceration industry, the lack of compromise when law-variations from state to state (tint laws, marijuana laws, drug laws, gun laws etc) citizens who getting locked up for felonies and hard time for non-violent crimes and in lots of cases, getting more time than actual violent, malicious, serial-crime committing felons. Man, and our rehabilitation system is an absolute joke. Police is given too much power many of the times that does infringe on our citizen rights.

I'm not saying that we have the absolute worst. Cause as you said, this comes with the problems of having a Democracy, a two-party controlling country with two entirely different views and agendas and examples of other countries as you mentioned such as Mexico, Panama, Brazil (I just got back from visiting family down there) and those systems are definitely corrupted to great levels on ALL levels. From Local/municipal all the way to federal level. But when talking on the scale as U.S./ Britain/ Japan etc. I don't consider them "1st world" countries because of their status in where they stand in the world.

But our system needs to be repaired...before things start spiraling uncontrollably.

huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...isit.html?_r=0

Of course the guy who said he had his hands up and said don't shoot is also the guy who gave an account that he met up with Brown when he saw him on the street. His narrative of course didn't take into account he was filmed in the same store during the strong arm robbery.

Fair but I do think some of the other First World Country examples need to be put into perspective. We have a large nation with a lot of people, many other first world countries don't suffer this problem. We have a ton of crime, a growing population of those who are being taught not to respect authority, less control than even many of those other countries, etc.

Here nor there, it can never be and will never be perfect. There will always be wrong doings and problems, you just have to hope and pray it never affects you. I feel blessed to be living in the United States, I feel we have been given the best state of affairs in the world, unfortunately I do feel current generations are doing their BEST to destroy it, and that is extremely saddening.

my mistake... not all

alot say he put his hands up to comply
police say he made an aggressive move towards the officer

police cams would solve this arguement in the future
i guess thatts really the best that can come out of this situation... enact a new law that can prevent, not 100%, but drastically change the way officers conduct themselfs and if deadly force is used...PROOF it was justified.....or not

if nothing comes of this and no changes are made with how police do there job, than, well....... GOD BLESS AMERICA

I say we vote in a law that requires all citizens to have cameras mounted on them to record them 24/7

thats logical

ROFL

Could you imagine how disturbing the job would be to watch the cameras? LOL

You have way too much faith in the ignorant.

Definitely man, I totally get where you coming from and your last statement that I put in bold, sadly to say...which is my generation, is slowly destroying what we have to be thankful for. There is simply not enough forward thinking, progressive people that wants to lead and make changes to this county. Our generation biggest problem, is everyone wants to blend in instead of take charge. Travel in packs instead of leading the pack. Its an highly unfortunate problem that does have its merits in some applications, but when it comes to situations that requires a leader....its a fail.

I strongly concur. It started with the baby boomers and has progressively gotten worse and worse with every generation. We have become perfectly fine with being sub-par, this issue is what haunts us.

When I see these cases like Brown, Martin, etc. It discourages me. Instead of the media building up racial tensions, why don't we focus on parenting our youth to make wise choices and take the high road. Teach the respect and how to avoid problematic situations rather than MAKE problematic situations.

I don't know where the circle ends and begins anymore, personally I think our nation is beyond the point of no return. We are no longer the power we once were. We continue to plummet in education statistics, grow debt, and fill jails. We are so concerned with what's happening with the Kardashians that we can't even show up to vote for the leader of our country (or well, statistically speaking anyway).

This kind of stuff is an embarrassment.

Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager,
was shot and killed Saturday, Aug. 9,
by Darren Wilson, a police officer

.................................................. .................................................. .......
.................................................. .................................................. .....
what media wants you to see.

Hope lost

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...inst-nbc-news/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...for-nbc-msnbc/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2253095.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rge-zimmerman/

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/nbc...s-on-911-tape/

go away.



msg

I love that presumption that the officer acted in appropriately.

What about forever changing how witnesses lie about what they saw? Considering the nonsense going on, I have little faith in the witnesses.

Maybe the change we need is parents start being parents and raising better kids.

what do you mean?? this isn't what media wants you to see! those up there are facts, lethal force is used only under life threatening circumstances. There are other alternatives, what about their so awesome training that they seem to rub on our face when they fuck up, why didnt he wait or call for back up? or use a different subduing method? it was his fault for going solo into a risky situation. Don't become part of the desensitization of events, we need to stand up and before this happens to your or my kids.

Awesome Source Material.


Yes, because we are totally comparable. You do realize that most of these European Utopias have Zero ethic diversity and the diversity...or freedom crushing laws ranging the entire gambit including zero immigration, censorship etc.


Rhetoric.

First, variation in law is great. It's part of states rights. Don't like it, vote or move. This country is far to big, far to diverse to have one central government making all the laws. That's tyranny of the majority. Why should I in podunk Midwest, who is outnumbered by California, be forced to accept what laws they want?

As far as nonviolent vs violent - please post up some statistics to back up your claim.

Our criminal system is not about rehabilitation. End of Story. :picardfp:

Our Society is not about rehabilitation. Ever apply for a job? Ever been asked if you are a convicted felon? Can't get a job - just go back to stealing.

What "to much" power are police given?


The two parties are closer align then you realize. You are just getting lost in rhetoric.

Good for you.

Maybe we should start with the people. How many drug gangs does Japan have? Active serial killers? How many men beat and murder their wives? Kidnap and rape girls? How many guys set off bombs in front of buildings? How many Japanese police officers are killed each year?

How many illegal aliens are in Japan? How many guns? How many minorities? How many people live below the poverty line?

Or else what? You still haven't stated how the system is broken. Just rhetoric. Yes, the US is not other countries. We have many more freedoms, opportunities and an extremely different culture. I don't see people line up by the MILLIONS to immigrate to Japan or England... and if they did, neither country would let them.

You can't trade one aspect for another.

You can't say "lets be like Norway!" without say "Lets deport out all the minorities, non-christians, poor, immigrants and uneducated while censoring movies, books and video games".

Monday Night Quarterback.

So what happens if the man gets away and kills someone.

"why didn't the police stop him... why didn't they chase him... why did he not just shoot him instead of taser..."


As for "other means of subduing. Reality is not the movies. We have no idea if the cop had a ranged-taser on him... and even if he did, he'd still have to draw it... and not miss.

They are a one shot deal and not always as effective as people think. Should the cop had "knight stick" the guy like Rodney King?

If you ask the cop he was in "life threading circumstances". According to him, the man tried to take his pistol, a round went off and then Brown beat the cop in the fact. News is reporting the officer has a busted eye socket.

So what, you expect the cop to just let the guy run off? Wants to go round two and fist fight it out?

:picardfp:

Well, this thread got a bit off topic. So, I just got done watching the CBS evening news and a young man from Ferguson said something along the lines of this "It's not a racial issue. It's an issue of the people vs. the police."

I thought that described what was going on pretty well in the US nowadays with police. Although I'm not black I do realize that police tend to be considerably harder on blacks. I've been harassed by the police plenty of times even though I'm white and live in an affluent area. So many police sympathizers and people who automatically assume that the police are correct have obviously haven't had any unpleasant interactions with the police.

Are you fucking serious? Have you read the book 1984?

You just want to give the government all the power, huh? I bet you are against the bill of rights, too.

You are an ignorant fellow. Too much government power is a really, really, really, really, really, bad thing. At this rate, you will find out one day.

I'm pretty sure theronin was being sarcastic. At least I hope he was.

I was hoping too. But, somehow I don't think he was....

Imagine it guys. Would be like Ed TV starring the ridiculously good looking Mathew Mcconaughey, except for every person in the US!!!

theronin, have you ever heard, witnessed, or watched a video of a cop completely shitting on the constitution? How about on a larger scale, have you ever learned in history class of every cop acting together to shit on human rights?

Have you seen the video where the cat plays the piano? Gets me every time.

Would you mind embedding the video here? I haven't seen it.

The ending is the best.