General politics discussion. Keep it civil.
 

It was decided to let the 2020 election thread die, but it's still important to discuss ongoing affairs.

Antisocial behavior is unlikely to be tolerated.

The fallout from 2020 + Wednesday that no one is talking about:

March 2020 till about Sep or Oct, there was a massive hack of the federal government infrastructure. I don't care who you blame, President Trump was not really talking about this and no one seems to understand how massive this sets us back as a country.

And then Wednesday... lost in all the talk about who did what was the glaring fact that for about 3-4 hours, the entire US Capitol building was open to anyone that was able to get in. Many senators and representatives sit on committees with access to sensitive information (since they control budgeting and oversight of national defense, intelligence, etc), so if you wanted to go in and take stuff, or plant bugs, or whatever, that was the perfect cover to do whatever you wanted.

The fallout from this will be hidden from public view and damaging for years, if not decades to come...

General politics discussion. Keep it civil.
 

PONIES. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...18493ee9df.jpg

I'll have a go...
I had the news on the TV Wednesday afternoon to follow the joint session live. I wound up watching a riot live on television instead. I joked with a good friend doing the same thing in Atlanta "these antifa agitators are causing shit.:
As soon as WHILE it was happening, people were calling it a "protest" that went sideways because of outside agitators.
(Maury Povich): "The lie detector test determined... That was a lie":
https://www.sfgate.com/nation/articl...z-15852663.php

Don't judge me, I watch Maury at 11 and 5 every day since I have been working from home since March.

It's certainly damaging and concerning what has happened from a national security perspective. I can't get over the fact that they breached the office of the Speaker of the House. This is second in line of the presidential succession and has access to all kinds of nation secrets. It's also a bit suspicious that one person that was arrested needed a Russian translator: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...555_story.html

I think it's not talked about much in the public sphere because the government does not want to share the full extent of what they know and don't know to foreign adversaries. A cynical side of me thinks that it might not be "sensational" enough to maintain traction on national media too. This is partly due to cyberattacks happening in greater frequency and scale, that the general public might have become numb to the news or tend to easily forget and move on. The OPM hack is one example that comes to mind.

Aight.

From the Joe Biden presidency here is what I want to see.

-Marijuana legalized
-civil forfeiture only when there is proof of a crime
-voting rights restored to felons (im aware this is a state issue)
-national concealed carry registry/license.

- more trans
- more government control
- more mask wearing
- more nancy pelosi and her nephew newsom
- more whitmer
- more lock downs
- less stimulus money
- less guns
- more money going to foreign nations
- more youtube/apple/google/twitter/amazon
- more computers that tell us how many times you've visited xhamster today
- more useless college graduates
- more electric cars
- less modified petrol cars
- more regulations for running and owning a business
- more restrictions for the adult industry
- less church
- less family

Is anyone else worried about the recent censorship on social media platforms and the obvious bias towards one party on said platforms?

As I understand it (someone put it plainly) Section 230 is supposed to be both a shield & sword for big tech companies. They choose who to use the sword on (removing content or users) and use the shield to defend themselves from lawsuits. These platforms are privately owned, and can 'censor' as they see fit. I understand this. They have protection from real-world consequences due to third-party inputs on their platforms...

...except when it comes to politics? My concern is what is being done about the influence of our nation's politics, whether by a loud/vocal minority or outside (Russian/Chinese) entities?

I grew up in CA my whole life, recently got out of the military with ZERO illusions about how 'great' our Navy is, and hold no great pride for my service. Experiences vary, I suppose. I had also never used a firearm before the military and I'm hooked now, although I currently do not (though I firmly believe in ownership) own any firearms. I live and work in Japan. I'm enjoying 'taking a break' from being in the US but I am happy to be an American. I say this because I don't want to be labeled as someone I'm not.

The sad fact, however, is that people get caught up on the name 'Trump'. He is easy to disdain and even easier not to defend, but I feel like he is currently being used to set a precedence for big tech censorship. So for the record, I could give two fucks about the man. He means nothing to me...but the shitstorm on social media after he was banned seems to be a bit of a tipping point for big tech to test what they can get away with. Trump was the perfect pawn to start with because most people on social media hold no love for him and (in my opinion) let themselves be blinded by that.

What do you guys think about how social media is influencing politics, and to a larger extent, how influencers on one side of the spectrum seem to have control?

No one was concerned when Facebook gutted the atheist pages and groups years back. No one was concerned when Twitter basically made it impossible to talk about LGBT issues openly for months a few years back.

No one seemed to be concerned when Facebook and Twitter refused to do anything about the clear and present danger of ethno-nationalist and christian dominionists organizing over the last 5-6 years. No one has been all that alarmed by Google turning overtly right leaning pro authority over the last few years.

Now that the conservative chickens have come home to roost and the sociopolitical climate is changing I'm supposed to be concerned that social media platforms are doing what they should have been doing and have always been well within their rights to do? Pass.

I truly believe that Boomers and older GenXers just do not understand that the internet is as real and in many important ways more powerful than physical space. Seemingly no lessons have been learned from the various hacks, leaks, viruses, etc, and very little has been done outside of big business's half assed attempts to protect their own networks.

Social engineering will continue with or without big tech "censorship" until more than shareholder $$$ is on the line.

The issues you mentioned with the atheist and LGBT communities are concerning, but in the same vain why would it be okay for conservatives to be silenced? If Facebook wasn't an ally then but is now, why should they be trusted? Parler was made for people who felt like they needed a place for conservative dialogue and it's being shitcanned. They made their own space for their discord and now it's open season on their asses...where do these people go? You don't have to care about the individuals/thier affiliation in particular, but what it means for 'XXXX Group' trying to have a forum on 'XXX Platform'.

We can get into the weeds of 'extremists' (in all communities) or you can trust that I'm purely discussing people that can have a constructive discord. My fear is that setting the precedence now will have larger implications later...especially when entities want to influence who the next US President will be.

The only reason you should be concerned is that them finally using the 'sword' is not done in an equal manner. I get that they're private and we can't make them deal out banhammers fairly. Right now it might be swinging in your favor but what happens when it isn't?

I'm only on Facebook and Instagram now, so I don't have to deal with this shit, but it's scary how many people (a lot of young people I know) get their news from Twitter and Facebook without doing further research.

Actually, I think bothering Parler is a massive mistake. Those people are self incriminating in plain view. I understand why Apple and Google are doing what they're doing but I'd hope that the DOJ had time and forethought to get deep in there first.

Do you remember back when Twitter said they already had the rules/enforcement and tech to stamp out abuse and extremism BUT it kept catching Republicans and conservative Christians in the dragnet? There's a warning there people didn't want to hear. Twitter put time and money into making their platform a better safer place and political pressure halted it. Sometimes well crafted impartial bots do get it right.

I hear you. My issue is 'free speech'. If Twitter was void of all political discussions I don't think we'd be talking about this.

If the powers at be over at Twitter can decide what gets to be seen and what gets cut, aren't you worried about that? I understand you aren't right now, but what happens when/if that pendulum swings back the other way? Right now a lot of people want to stick it to the Trump supporters but if you're like me and you're leery of big government it kind of worries me. They can use this (a large group of people that are easy to dislike) to their advantage because they know we'll accept it if it's packaged the right way.

I'm looking at my tinfoil hat, but it isn't on yet.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under FoS. This means the GOVERNMENT cannot censor you. Twitter, however, can...but their definition of that can continuously evolve. (We're saying Twitter here, but insert any platform).

You also said it caught 'abuse' and 'extremists' but these also have definitions set by Twitter. These definitions can also change at the whim of whatever platform we're discussing.

You think Twitter is specifically targeting Trump supporters for being Trump supporters or do you think Trump supporters are posting things that trip Twitters filters and boys?

Is your solution to give the government control over what's allowed on the internet rather than people? That seems worse.

I will agree with you that after inciting the "Walk down to the Capitol" Twitter, FB, and the numerous other social media sites shutting down Trumpito had the perfect start to getting him axed off those sites.

I think as we continue to see things escalate as a whole with proof of a call to action or inciting other acts of violence that we will see the same treatment going forward.

I think the biggest example of how it could have happened to people that lean left, is when the whole "Punch a Nazi" campaign was going on and Nazi sympathizers were being assaulted all over the country. That would be the only example of "Why weren't those people inciting violence against Nazis banned?"

But then again, fuck Nazis.

I think dipshits are hitting buzzwords, but the list of buzzwords is set by people that work in a biased workplace on a biased platform. Does that mean everyone hitting said buzzwords is innocent? No.

I posted this because I really don't know what the solution is. When everyone thought Russia influenced social media to make Clinton lose the election people were outraged. Now people that are discussing the possibility of voter fraud are being suspended. The line between misinformation and discussing possibilities is blurred. Someone can't postulate that voter fraud may be occurring and agree that the raid on the Capitol was wrong? Where are the degrees to this?

The platforms aren't regulating fairly. The only type of 'government control' that would work is for the government to essentially ensure that free speech is upheld on privately owned platforms...but that's not gonna happen.

I'm confused. Are you saying coordinating a protest should not be allowed? Genuinely asking.

Does anyone know what tweets actually got him banned? I think I saw one, but it was the same 'the election was stolen' and 'we will not let this stand' type shit. I fail to see how that equates to 'break in and break shit'. Again, for anyone getting mad, I'm not defending these people or him. I'm discussing what the content of the tweets were and how they gave grounds to a banhammer.

...and yeah, fuck Nazis. Would we all like to punch a Nazi? Yes...but we'd still be subject to assault charges. This is where FoS always falls down: it gives freedom to assholes.

Actually here it is:

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topic...uspension.html

So even in the context of what was going on, I still don't see where the glorification of violence was. They try break it down, but I still disagree. I think it's a reach and a way for Dorsey to get Twitter paid for the foreseeable future.

All I'm trying to implore anyone here to do is to try and remove your feelings from this and look at the typed words and decide if saying 'fuck you' to the people you disagree with is worth what this implies.

Colin Powell formally leaves the Republican Party.
Impeachment 2.0 set to begin if Pence doesn't invoke the 25th.
Big companies cutting ties to lawmakers who tried to subvert the election.
It's not even 10am yet!

This is a very interesting topic on social media platforms and one where I don't think there is a straight forward solution. The rules and policies on these platforms change over time and will evolve at a rapid clip (compared to fed/state laws) because the technology and how they are being used (or abused) changes at a similar rate.

I'm just speculating here, but these platform owners probably had the Supreme Court case of Brandenburg v. Ohio in mind which the court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action". This might have caused Twitter and other platforms into action because of the aftermath of said speech and the fact that they don't want to be liable for another similar event occurring (which had rumblings already in motion).

In the case of Russian influence in 2016 vs. widespread election fraud claims in 2020, IMO, the main difference is both were presented to the courts but the former had credible evidence brought forward by DOJ leading to indictments and the latter was hearsay leading to cases dropped/lost and some lawyer running the risk of disbarment.

The actions taken against Parler were certainly extreme, but they can go the way of Daily Stormer and host their service outside of U.S. jurisdiction.

I'm glad the questions of censorship are getting some air time. If you spend a lot of time on Reddit, the only response seems to be "good riddance."

But conversations in the public sphere matter. The ability for people to converse gets creative juices flowing-provided the Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram algorithms don't just place the people in echo chambers. There should be no question about it: Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram all helped create the situations for genesis. They put like-minded people in rooms where the reading material was all war and no peace.

Now they're saying "omg this is bad" when culpability was being spoken of- and changing the direction of the narrative. Where were the heavy-handed ban hammers when it was obvious troll farms based outside the US were spreading rumor after rumor, making it impossible for simple people with a 9-to-5 to tell fact from fiction in the hour they gave themselves to cruise Facebook? Where was the civic-minded introspection when people were literally being radicalized in front of our faces?

Big companies only do what's right for the shareholders, because what's right for the shareholders is what's right for the c-suite. They're virtue-signaling because it'll be good for their bottom lines.

People need to think critically, but that doesn't happen overnight.

I also agree with mav1178- this hack needs to come back into the public eye. There was some very scary shit being revealed on 1/5 and now it's buried in the back.

Yup, the direction of this thread basically proves my point.

We are so stuck on the newest news that the important details are not being scrutinized on.

I'm sure someone at the FBI or DOJ is investigating but the public goes on like nothing happened...

panama papers says wut?

Russia DID use Facebook and Twitter to steer the outcome of that election. There is no doubt. I hope the incoming administration and Congress lay it all out so there can be no doubt.

In 2020 there was no wide spread fraud or undue influence except that by Donald Trump. There is no equivalency here.

Again, the lessons social media learned from 2016 were put into practice. They didn't target Russia and Republicans. They targeted bots, smurf accounts, coordinated posting with no "source", and more, and Republicans and hyper conservative NGOs got caught AGAIN. They're doing their job decently well and if anything they delayed doing it until after the election to appear impartial when they should have been doing it the whole time.



BTW, we aren't talking about censorship in the town free speech zone. We're talking about curation on a privately owned physical literal bulletin board. I can and will curate my bulletin board how I see fit and I don't even have to tell you what that means. You have to get it out of your heads that social media is any different. If you don't like their policies and bias then make your own, and maybe do a better job of curtailing incitement than Parler did.

Remember the various gay wedding cake incidents?

Now that but it's Twitter and Neo Nazis. It's Facebook and Qanon. It's Instagram and female nipples. It's Simon & Schuster and Josh Hawley.

I don't believe that we should have control over what gets posted. I just believe that this moral grandstanding is fucking stupid and is only led by the companies' want to CYA.

Back to the hack, we're talking about the Russians having potential root access to information at FireEye, US Dept of Treasury, US NTIA, the State Dept, US NIH, DHS, DOE, National Nuclear Security Admin, some US states, Microsoft, and Cisco. Apparently, they also gained access to ~3% of the DoJ's Office 365 inboxes and may have compromised the federal courts' case management and electronic case files system.

Kompromat may be very alive and very well soon.

Exciting stuff brought to you by hackers.

https://www.facebook.com/theTrojanHo...99599968569372

https://gizmodo.com/every-deleted-pa...dat-1846032466

To some people it does. Like you said before, when the pendulum swings back it'll change then.

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Someone in the state department changed Trump's biography to show his term ending today.

https://www.state.gov/people/donald-j-trump/

Well, that either got taken down or got notoriety's kiss of death.

And back to the internet censorship topic...

https://www.krem.com/article/news/lo...6-8d800d2a03fb

An Idaho ISP is blocking Facebook and Twitter. I'm pretty sure that's not legal where as Twitter and Facebook removing content that goes against their TOS is perfectly legal.

Would be interesting to see their ToS and whether or not they reserve the right to block websites on certain grounds.

Then we can have a discussion on whether or not Internet access is a right in a time when most libraries are either closed or on restricted hours.

I'd argue that highspeed internet access is a right and should be regulated as a utility.

+ 156,485,235.67




...I understand this. I said it a few times. My topic is basically the conundrum brought up by allowing these privately owned platforms to influence a generation of voters BECAUSE they have the right to curate. People will constantly compare Trump to a certain infamous German leader but controlling the narrative is also being done by these platforms. Like I said, you can sing their praises while it's in your favor but what happens when it isn't?

I guess this topic really has no 'end'. If you believe Twitter is doing a stellar job then that's cool. I don't use the platform anyway, and I only really discuss these things here with forum members. I just believe that entities that target FoS under ANY guise will end up trying to CONTROL speech as well. Right now it's easy to support. That might not be the case in the future.

I'm not singing their praises in the slightest. You misunderstand.
They've been held to no standard but those imposed by shareholders and advertising partners. They dance a balance of mass engagement and staying under the radar.

Twitter is begging for regulation. Youtube desperately needs federal standards for copyright imposed on them to defend themselves from larger media companies. Only Facebook wants left to their own devices and to avoid antitrust at all costs.

They all need regulation that frees them from being the bad guys in public perception by requiring them to act. It's a complicated thing we have no precedence for.

People have been getting kicked off social media platforms since the invention of social media - the vast majority for offenses much less than what Trump has done. In my opinion, they gave him too long of a leash (much like the mods did with zombie/rebuild) in an effort to prevent backlash, which is understandable, but its really just delaying the inevitable and allowing the damage to be done in the meantime.

Clear, concise rules/laws/terms of service/community guidelines/etc that are enforced in a fair and unbiased manner is the only way for a social network/government/society/club/etc to operate in an effective and ethical manner. Shit is universal. It ain’t rocket science, but it seems like a reminder is good every now and then.

*looks at America* FUCK we’re FUCKED

My thing about Repubs getting riled up is this is literally what they championed for. A private company being able to deny service as they see fit if the person they are giving the service to does not fit their values.

But when its king trump now it is an issue. The hypocrisy in Washington is sickening at times.

A true conservative would be about small government, balanced budgets, personal freedom now throwing a hissy fit when you guys loses.

The gop needs to die and from the ashes a party arises with actual conservative values.

-no needles wars
-more aid into america and less foreign aid
-tax breaks across the board
-offset the tax breaks by legalizing marijuana and mushrooms nation wide
-getting rid of blue laws. (for those not familiar these are laws throughout the nation that are quasi bible based that restrict things. for instance in some states you cannot buy alcohol on sundays)
-stop the needless social wars. If two men want to marry, personal freedom up to them as government should not try to regulate what goes on people's bedroom between consenting adults. this applies to escorts as well
-since abortion is the law, educate teens about protected sex and stop the abstinence only bullshit. Revamp the adoption system to get more kids places with more loving families.
-revamp the prison system, stop incentivizing officers to do drug busts with federal money and have then focus on other crimes, like rape, murder with said federal money

Just some ideas off the top of my head.

I don't know if you guys consider this important, but GoDaddy dropped AR15.com.

Arfcom was backed up, and is back up, but it's still interesting that they shut down a site with the primary purpose of discussing a popular rifle platform. I can only assume it's because of the non-firearm conversations among the heavily conservative users of the site, least of which was a dedicated QAnon subforum. It's been a while since I ventured into the Mos Eisley spaceport that is the non-firearm subforums and holy hell. These motherfuckers are wackadoo.

Ron Paul got banned from Facebook, likely because he's a dumbass when it comes to COVID.

But... conversations forced into the shadows create radicals. Expose a person to enough propaganda and they might start believing it, and each of these new platforms concentrates voices that might otherwise be drowned out.

We need more parties. Not just two, but twenty.

I'm pretty far on the left but i'm in favor of all the things you listed. Other than less foreign aid spending, I don't see any of those being very popular with todays conservatives.

Serves to show that there is no such thing as political conservatism as most Americans imagine it. Either you want things to stay largely how they are or you want some level of major change. Social conservatism should have no bearing on politics. The whole political discourse is warped by the notion that modern Republicans even have a coherent policy platform. We never even get to actual policy talk when they behave as an opposition party even in power.
For instance; let's militarize the southern border, demonize brown immigrants, actively punish undocumented workers, but also shield the ownership and management trafficking these people and paying them under the table.




In other news, Pompeo says Cuba is funding terrorism in the western hemisphere and Al Qaeda is operating out of Iran. The desperation is palpable.

That FBI DOJ press conference was so satisfying. He had me at public corruption strike force.

I think a better response would be been to do like reddit did and just ban the subforum instead of the entire site. There are gun owners all over the political spectrum. All of my family and friends who are hardcore gun owners are strong on the left.

That is the problem. Today's "conservatives" keep fighting yesterday's culture wars.

I understand the value of social institutions, promoting family, marriage etc. however, trying to define what family and marriage is IMO goes beyond conservatism and into something else. This is where a lot of voters get left.



I agree partially and disagree partially. I think social conservatism has a part in politics.

For instance I think it is more socially conservative to recognize that the dreamers are apart of American society by no fault on their own. Having a clear path to citizenship should be a goal. We should then put stricter laws in place and enforce them against the people who hire illegals and cause the issue in the first place.

The problem with most social conservatives is they simply define it as preserving the past society while failing to see that society changes and therefore you need to change along with it but still maintain some core principles.

For instance

I think my simplest answer for that is that there is no past to preserve and no force seeking to remove their current lifestyles from them. The march of progress doesn't rob them of traditional marriage, church on Sunday, beers with the boys, etc... But their crusade for an ever more idealized conservative past that never existed does rob us of hard fought progress and removes entirely the prospects of further progress.

How is the social libertarian the one calling for government to mind it's own business? lol

For me, the role of government is to provide the best possible outcomes to the greatest number of people as possible. Who cares if healthcare is a right(it is); can we satisfactorily provide healthcare to every person in the country? Fuck yeah we can. Would it be in the interest of all citizens to make work visas fast and easy? Should the pathway to citizenship be treated as a "shall grant" rather than "can grant"? Fuck yes to both.

That absolutely would have been the better response, but there's virtue signaling to be done, dammit.

The Alphabet Agency (FBI, CIA, ATF, DOJ) response to violence on 1/6 and the (likely) violence on 1/20 will result in reduced freedom for all Americans. Biden would likely sign any revised USAPATRIOT-style bill that crossed his desk.

Increased government intrusion does not serve us well. Some legacy, Trump. 80 miles of border wall built over four years and armed troops on every corner in DC.

Or (shocking) maybe the people that have been written off as 'whackos' can have a discussion with you and see the light of day. We are so fast to write people off.

How do you feel about the Parler debacle, then?

Exactly. He would do so in the name of freedom too. It would be called something like the USAFLYINGEAGLEFREEDOM ACT.

History tells in the face of fear politicians erode freedom to "protect" the masses.



This is an entire cluster.

One one hand we can clearly see its politically motivated as the tech companies want to be on the right side of the marketing dollars.

But said removal brings up the question, Should tech companies wield that kind of power to basically control what is viewed on the net? Related article below.

https://www.axios.com/trump-social-m...a3ff0096e.html



On the other hand by shoving the off them web, you force them into places that cannot be monitored by anyone which may in the future allow the communicate even better.

https://www.axios.com/the-online-far...40bf44fef.html

On yet another hand, the possible implications.

These people were planning a crime. Clearly illegal.

Lets change it and say people were planning to meet up and have a taste of all their home distilled liquor in a gathering. Also illegal since home distilling is illegal in all 50 states.

Who gets to decided where the cut off is.

Now granted the storm the capital shit they were talking about raping and kidnapping so clearly different but one can see it is not exactly a stretch.

A small number of House Republicans are in favor of impeachment (notably the #3 in the caucus) and Mitch McConnell has signalled his support behind the effort to convict and ban him from holding office again. As I mentioned in another thread, now would be a good time for Trump to resign. Out of pure self interest, he can resign in exchange for a pardon from Pence and retain the former president benefits. He would get the legal protection he seeks from federal crimes and he would still get the lifetime secret service protection.

That would require him to admit defeat. It took a failed coup for him do that last time...

Have you tried conversing with people for whom facts are fluid and dependent on the perceived bias of the informer? Have you tried to have conversations with people whose method of argumentation is the gish gallop?

It's nearly impossible. The goalposts move second by second. Whataboutism is the name of the game.

My brother and I have stopped talking politics with our dad specifically because it's impossible and everyone involved gets frustrated, then things get nasty.

This is literally what the Trump 2020 thread was about with the most vocal members of the staunch right. It was impossible to make points as the goal posts were always moving or other topics were brought into conversation.

Trump is officially the first President to be impeached TWICE. The House is back in session Friday and I fully expect to hear some resolution on section 3 of the 14th amendment.

Yes. I was forced to work with a lot of them in the military. You can't escape it.

...but by writing them off aren't we doing what these 'banhammers' are doing and forcing them underground?

I know it's not our job to change anyone's mind and it's fucking exhausting. I guess I'm all for keeping the dialogue going even if you 'hate' the person across the table from you. If you wanted to 'go to battle' with these people one day it would be a good thing to already be privy to their side of it so you can pick apart their argument at it's weak points and have counterarguments to their at that point 'anticipated') replies.

Meh. Maybe that's uncharacteristically idealistic of me.

Yep.

You can?t have a discussion with someone who refuses to accept logic, and will infinitely move goalposts, play the whataboutism game, etc.

Me: 2+2=4
Them: BUT WHAT ABOUT 5!!! TRUMP SAID ITS 5, YOU LIBTARD.
Me: facepalm.

Fuck em? The majority of them will never change their mind. Even those with doubts are emotionally invested in their worldview. It reminds me of explaining institutional racism to people that don't want to hear it.

So you still aren't open to conversation?

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Anything blatantly obvious (like racism) should get uterly burried, but difference of of policy? That should be able to be discussed.

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I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

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And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ts/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

meh, theres a huge separation between "i support limited govt and want financial conservatism" and "MAGA QANON STOP THE STEAL 8MOREYEARS".
If you endorse and support leaders who espouse racist agendas, its not surprising that you would get lumped in together. (not pointing at YOU particularly, just "you" in general)
im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

white person cosplaying a black character is absolutely not problematic in the same way as straight up blackface, but imo its could still be taken as offensive by many, or tasteless at best. Participate at your own risk, but dont be shocked when theres plenty of blowback.

the discussion around trans persons is simple. dont beat the shit out of them. dont assault or disparage them. dont try to deny them the rights and protections that the rest of us get. does it affect YOUR life in a negative way for someone else to live as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth?

in 2016 i would easily accept that not all trump supporters were racists.
in 2020 i would easily accept that MANY more trump supporters were racists. If you keep supporting/endorsing someone who espouses racist views, enacts racist policies, etc, don't be surprised if you get lumped in, even if you personally don't verbalize racist views. Plenty of Jews voted for hitler in 1935, not knowing what he would become.

https://sfi.usc.edu/video/manfred-st...s-voted-hitler

https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quar...ed-for-hitler/

\/\/\/ this one is an opinion piece
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...tler-1.5417967

There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.

And that's my problem with lumping in. There's no individualism. No one person is accountable, it's everyone that's right leaning is bad. Kingkilburn literally indirectly called me a racist in the last thread because I disagreed with him on some policies, even though I literally did nothing to him. When I hear "you can't converse with them", that's a double standard. Then conversations never happen. Goalposts get moved, etc.


Isn't this slightly contradictory? I'm reading this as "yeah, there's individualism but it doesn't matter, all bad".


This made me actually lol [emoji23]


While this is true, context should be what matters.

The libertarian in me completely agrees with this. People should be able to do their thing and it's no one's business. But the fairness part of me (and may be what future is referring to) are biological women being forced to compete in sports to biological men, having to use the same restrooms, etc.


And I have no disagreement that there are racists who voted for him. But there are others that are voting for policies rather than the person. If you write off everyone as a racist that can't be talked to, then it sounds like everything will always be divided in an ugly way.

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Your personal opinion on how you categorize doesn't make you right. If you box me up as a racist, I'm definitely going to tell you something about it.

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If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

So again, I'll point out that I am not a conservative.

You indirectly called me a racist and grouped me with zombie and rebuild because I disagreed about packing the supreme court and adding more people to congress so it's easier to push x,y,z polices through. You think that's okay? Are you going to hold up a mirror to yourself about this statement? Because as much i do not like the way you've talked to me/about me, I've been completely cordial and tried having normal debate with you. That being said, Im not going to beg for conversation. I'm merely trying to the thing that should be able to happen, which is where you said "fuck em". But, if you're so predisposed that I'm a racist and that I'm a "danger" to you, I don't know what to tell you.

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:rofl:

Honestly you do not seem fringe to me. You definitely left but not like white people can't eat mexican food left.


Right. The trans movement is bumping dick first into the women's movement. So much so the trans have come up with an acronym Terf which stands for Trans exclusive radical feminist. Despite the fact it is a issue which not even .5% of the population is directly affected by.

I believe you cannot encroach on the freedoms of the majority, women, to please an ultra minority. At the same time they cannot be treated like second class citizens. It is a fine line.

And on trump voters do remember a lot of them voted for him simply because he was the republican candidate and they tow the line for their party.

Pretty much goes like this. Not all trump voters are white racists, but all white racists are trump voters.


I get this. Align yourself with dickheads, be looked at as a dickhead. However consider this. Today's republicans have little to do with real american conservatism. Hell a lot of repubs now called themselves Trumplicans.

Trump brought out some of the worst in people we have seen.

The gop is as needs to die a swift death in its place rises a real conservative party. One that will work with the dems to bring balance to the nation.

Neither the left or the right has all the answers. However between the two of them is enough to make this country truly great.

We need revamp the prision system, the healthcare system, the education system, the court and police system as a start.

Will Biden do any of it is the question of the day.

IMO, these policy moves were done to hamstring the Biden administration. With Cuba, it's probably geared towards hurting diplomatic relations and versing policy executed by the Obama administration. As for Iran, that could impact Biden's goal of re-entering the nuclear deal.

The Biden administration can certainly reverse these policies moves, but I also think such moves will give more fodder for some Republicans and conservative media outlets.

The answer is no because prison makes money, healthcare makes money, shit education makes people easier to manipulate and drain money from, and police reform would take actual work.

You?d need to push through a lot of ?socialist? legislation and make major societal changes to see any real progress on those fronts. Abolish private prisons. Adopt FULLY universal healthcare. Pay teachers a lot more. Increase IA budget, get rid of qualified immunity, and actually hold cops accountable.

I suppose it could be doable since it?s an all Dem party on capital hill, but they?d have to actually want to do it, which I don?t think they do...

Be the change, mr nismo. Put down old talking points/paradigms and be constructive. I'm moving on from the topic like I want America to move on from Republicanism.


On Pompeo
I never understand Congress going along with executive branch policy swinging back and forth with changing presidents. They, as a collective body, should be setting policy that guides us at home and our diplomats abroad. Pompeo should have to provide evidence to various Congressional committees to designate foreign states as criminal or terrorist. Congress needs to take back its role from the presidency regardless of political party.

what about my fucking PONIES???
https://media.giphy.com/media/RJJzGA...Pbv/source.mov

This is simply put, yet eloquent lol.


The lie detector test proved that was a LIE.

Yeah and that's the problem. It's a double standard. It seems like this isn't going to be the thread to break any new ground on how lop-sided the accusatory language is but whatever.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-vir...&utm_medium=AP

Am... Am I riddin with Biden? Obvious policy seems downright heroic after 4 years of that.

Ponies are a more likely outcome than any real change :rofl:

Oh look, a president actually laying out a plan to deal with the pandemic. It's almost as if he's actually qualified for the job. It's a god damn miracle!

You cannot be serious about everything you've said at me, then tell me to be the change? What a joke. You ignored everything I said as usual....

Case and point above, as he gets to call me a racist and just roll with it like it's nothing.



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I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

This was literally your reply to me disagreeing about packing the supreme court and congress.

So yes, you actually did indirectly call me a racist, and a couple posts later grouped me in with zombie and rebuild who were literally provoking you. Hurt my feelings? You can't say that shit and expect them to not tell you something. It's not all or nothing. Or if you do believe that, I'm guessing you support the rioters and looters from the BLM protestst. You know, ones who burned people's shit to the ground (a lot of minority owned to add). The "mostly peaceful" onces as a reporter is standing in front of a large structure fire. Since that's how you view everything? Mind me, I don't assume you're okay with that, as everyone should be treated as an individual. But hey if that's how you see yourself, so be it.


Again to add, I'm not a conservative...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...077925e984.jpg

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1.) So if racists support big government and someone on this forum does as well, they are racist by association? Where are the degrees to this? He has stated multiple times that there are PARTS he agrees with and parts he disagrees with.

2.) This is okay for you but not for the people you are so against? Because you perceive you are on the side of 'righteousness'? How about this: you just want to see villains to justify you stooping to their level. Case-in-point with mr.nismo. You attack him, he starts to defend himself, and because he doesn't take it he's the enemy. It's like you're hunting for a reason to treat him like two previously banned forum members because you need a punching bag. C'mon, man...

3.) No, it isn't, and yes it's tiring...but isn't fighting the good fight (in this case trying to reach others with words) worth the utopia we all want one day? I also don't believe you do this because you seem just as intolerant as the people you despise so much.

Dude you are espousing looking in the mirror and it's like you've never seen one.

I'm sorry man but you're like a movie protagonist that's hunting a villain down because he does bad things. Once you get him right where you want him, you proceed to do the things you abhor so much to him because it's okay for you and not for him...but you're the protagonist, right? The crowd still cheers even when you perpetrate the very same shit you don't like upon the villain in your story?

If you are a paragon that wrongdoes a wrongdoer for wrongdoing, you are now a wrongdoer. An eye for an eye makes the world blind. I ran out of metaphors.

Oh fuck off already. Go start a dogpile on Kilburn thread or something. You can make up whatever words and motivation makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourselves.

I'll be in here talking about policy and current events.

No one is dog-piling on you, you're making yourself the target of the conversation by not listening to anything they're saying.

What you're doing is very similar to them moving the flag posts and what about-ism we were fighting against the other guys about for so long.

What the fuck are you even talking about? This is stupid. You guys are spending days thinking about me while Biden releases an actual covid19 plan. Might as well lock this one too if no one intends to talk about anything but me.

I got a text last night from an engine supplier of mine.

It appears to be QAnon bullshit, and its gist is that Trump allowed the Democrats to elect themselves to positions of power in USA INC, but Trump already signed the papers to make us the United States Republic. There will be an election of the president within 180 days of Jan 8 and on Jan 20th, all Democratic offices are defunct and the new US Republic will be debt free.

That is batshit, my dudes. People actually believe this, and not an insignificant amount of people.

It's really going to be a significant challenge for this country in the years ahead when you have such a large populace in denialism.

IMO, the Biden administration should not give any of these conspiracies any oxygen and just follow through with their agenda as much as possible.

True as this may so be, the people who peddle this shit are adept at sucking all the air out of a room.

Further research shows that QAnon followers also believe that there will be mass executions.

If there are tens of thousands of Americans who are okay with martial law and mass executions, what the holy fuck does that say about us as a society?

A right wing conspiracist lives with me.

I've heard it all.

Trump is going to declare marshall law, the vaccine is just a ploy to turn black kids gay. The dr's are killing patients claiming covid to get money. Masks make your body weaker since you breath in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.

I've also heard that Obama knew in 2014 that this was all gonna happen so the Dems would be able to win, and that wearing a mask gives you cancer. Nevermind all the tinfoil shit I hear from my redneck coworkers.

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/f6...082ce5691c.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/f6...082ce5691c.jpg

Oh contraire

It is going to get worst. Now they will have a full for year to say how Biden's actions are going to [insert radical nonsense].

This is not going away until there are a Republican-majority House and Senate with a Republican in the WH. The myth that the election was stolen won't stop and will likely be amplified with every "socialist" policy enacted under Biden's term.

Seriously. This is our lives now, with consistent and constant conspiracy theories being bandied about like we're truly idiotic.

Re: gay frogs (not really gay but sex-changed and hermaphroditic and I understand the context of the picture had nothing to do with starting a conversation on atrazine) and atrazine- that's what happens when industrialized farming is subsidized and championed. Yield per acre goes down, yield per year goes down, petroleum products used per acre go up, pesticide usage goes up without long-term studies on its environmental effects. Atrazine's been banned in the EU since 2004 but remains present in the soil more than 15 years after its last use.