Shimming an R200 or J30 vlsd
 

By: Hunter Rodziczak

I could not find a comprehensive guide to doing this, So I thought I would make one for the good of the S chassis community.

Benefits: Get clutch type lsd action for a 1/4 of the price.

Well post j30 VLSD installation I found myself quite unsatisfied with the performance. As with Many VLSd's after becoming heated up they simply refuse to work properly and your VLSD becomes a one tire fire and thats no good. So after looking for upgrades I stumbled across a few options. Since I have a J30 vlsd with 5 bolt output shafts I would have to switch back to the standard 240sx R200 differential housing in order to run a clutch type lsd. I sold my old diff and a clutch type lsd wasn't in my budget. Somehow I stumbled across Shimming. Shimming involves adding an extra shim(s) to the original preload shim and causes the vlsd to lock similarly to a clutch type lsd. This preload shim costs $10 from you local Nissan dealer so this is definitely worth the money.


-Add one shim and vlsd will act similarly to a 1.5 way lsd

-Add two shims it will act like a 2 way/welded diff.

Here is a picture of the Shim with part no: ( this fits both j30 and R200 diffs)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5013.jpg
Here's your standard diff, Start By removing the diff from the car and unbolting the 8 bolts holding the diff cover on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5001.jpg
Once that is completed, separate the cover like so and before you put the new sealant on remember to scrap off all old sealant and I recommend using brakecleen to clean surfaces before applying sealant back on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5002.jpg
This is what you'll see:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5003.jpg
Next before anything else knock out the output shafts. This takes quite a bit of effort but don't be scared they will eventually come out. I recommend hitting them from behind with a hammer:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5005.jpg
Next you can take off the cap bolts like so:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5004.jpg
IMPORTANT: Remember which side the shafts and caps cam from as to not mix them up
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5006.jpg
And this is what you're left with:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5007.jpg
Next, it's time to pry out the differential. Unless you have superhuman strength you have to get it out using a bar that give leverage:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5008.jpg
And end result:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5009.jpg
Unless you have a very good impact gun the next part is almost impossible. Take these bolts out to separate the ring gear from the diff.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5010.jpg
Next take off these two Phillips head screws.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5011.jpg
Pry apart:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5014.jpg
The Almighty shim:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5016.jpg
Now take this and put it over the existing shim:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...14/new5013.jpg
And now put the diff back together the same way you took it apart.


Impressions: Awesome locking compared to the stock vlsd can't complain.

Here goes another link also:

http://www.d1nz.com/forum/viewtopic....561d68f2602e75

i think this is one of those things that makes perfectly clear forehead-slapping sense once explained to you..

..but for some reason just did not even cross your mind ever before.


shimming a stock diff ACTUALLY works. duh.




so yeah, i feel stupid, but i'm glad you're intelligent. just wanted to say how cool i thought this write-up was.

Thanks man,

archive fact worthy?

sweetness, now do you have to measure/do the backlash?

if so anyone got a link lol

I was under the impression that our gear lash was set with washers? Do you have to change their configuration?

nope no changes need to be made

This works good, I had two friends do this 3 weeks ago

Aren't you just causing the gear engagement between the spider gears in the diff to be more heel/root heavy and therefore bind up?

I don't see how this is an "awesome mod." You're just incorrectly adjusting spider gears. Once you get a gear incorrectly adjusted like that, there will be relatively movement between gears as they mesh, which will wear them down in short order. Wear in a diff means metal shavings, which will cause accelerated wear in other components and potentially massive failure.

well in that case dont drift or drive your car hard because your wearing it faster, inevitably causing your vehicle to fail..

btw im one of the people that shimmed my diff about a month ago and it is still fully locked and feels amazing

how is a shimmed vlsd for daily driving? I'm getting sick of my welded diff since i only daily drive the car now, is it anything like a welded? Also, what are the long term ill effects of doing this to the diff?

mine is exactly the same as a welded, but i have a lot thicker shims in mine than a lot of the people who just add a small on to tighten it up a tad, in that case it would feel just like a normal vlsd that just locks easier

I added 1 shim a couple weeks and its pretty tight, mine had a ratcheting sound on slow tight turns, but after breaking it in and a lsd additive the ratcheting has almost gone but there is a ton more lock than i thought there would be. if i knew how much there would be i might have only replaced the shim other than adding 1. how was breakin for everyone else??? any noise or just some tire chirping??

can anyone list the part number cuz the pics arent working for me if its on there gonan do this asap very much hating on my vlsd right now

-Shims go up in 0.3mm increments from 0.8 to 1.49mm

38424-40F60 =0.80mm(same as in the picture)
38424-40F67 =1.01mm
38424-40F75 =1.25mm
38424-40F83 =1.49mm (the biggest)

Will this work with a stock open diff. too?

no

msg length

I thought the viscous diffs just had viscous fluid engaging the plates inside the housing, thus transferring torque between the 2 wheels?

If so, there shouldn't be spider gears turning and being meshed and destroyed, no?

wow this is awesome.. i have a vlsd lying around.. i need to do this before i throw it into my pumpkin.. nice...

bumping a good old thread..

just took my lsd apart, had a 1.25mm shim in there from the factory (odd) and I could only get a .80mm and a 1.01mm from nissan, i installed both of them... think its gonig to fully lock?

edit: Update...

here is a very easy trick that will save you a headake when installing the diff back into the pumpkin.

-lift the whole pumpkin up with all the bearings and spacers aligned. and drop it on the drive shaft end. ( a nice 1 foot drop)
-use a phone book or somthing to drop it on.
-the impact(s) will pull the lsd bearings and spacers all into place effortlessly.

(took me about 4 drops and i couldn't believe it was that easy. lol

first impressions.. (awesome) It was fully locked but i did a few figure eights and it loosened up a bit. feels perfect.... super tight.

^ you wanna help me do mine lol?

So I guess you can get buff while doing this too huh?

lol

The diff is like 100 pounds hahaha

i have this in my car as well.

best 4$ ever.

they're special order sometimes - i have an extra if anyone cant get a shim.

sure, pm me

Tourqe specs for ring gear?

hey my VLSd (I know for sure its lsd)dosnt work at all never has no matter what fluid i use... So do you guy think i should just get the biggest shim. Im doing this asap ill be waiting on the dealership im sure.

im all over this!!!

just wondering...
after shimming your LSD, does anyone get a slight whine/rolling noise from it? its not loud, but its definitely audible.

That whine/rolling noise is probably from improper gear mesh. I can't see how this is any good for the gears inside your differential.

for real though anyone got them???

impact wrench blast :P

Ring gear bolt torque specs are 130-145ft-lb

FSM says 130-145 ft-lbs.

You've used all your free hand outs.

Please get yourself a copy of the FSM before you approach any further.

What size shims did use guys use because i dont want mine to act like a welded diff really but i dont want it to be weak sauce either. I was considering using a one 1.25mm shim. Any insight is appreciated

you have to use the correct shims so the backlash is within stock spec.

edit, why not just buy a welded diff/get yours welded. this is ghetto and your old ass lsd is gonna break faster than normal.

does it lock just like a welded diff? I rather do this and get a 1.5 type around town than a fully locked diff.

I dont want a welded diff that shit is too brut for me right now I drive my car alot now and dont feel like dealing with that crap all the time.

i say just add a 1.01 shim and you should be good even replacing the stock shim with a new one will not give you the lock up you want so just add a 1.01 and you should lock up pretty close to how a 1.5 locks up the only thing i dont know about this mod is how long you vlsd will last but from some of the people that have done this say the vlsd wont make any noises after breaking it in with a couple figure 8 patterns like some of the other members in this thread.

Glad to see you guys found this useful if you have any questions feel free to pm me.

A buddy of mine did this... We had allot of noise when the clutches engaged.
We used some chevy lsd additive and it cleared it up

Any1 else had a problem with this?

When the clutches engaged?

I didn't think there were CLUTCHES in a VLSD?

so you're assuming he drives auto?

What?

Unless he has a multiplate clutch assembly, I don't see how there could be "CLUTCHES" on a car, unless he was talking about the LSD clutches, which an VLSD do not have.

automatics have multiple clutches, though i am not sure if the nissan 240 automatic trans is that type..

it could also be a typo

My mistake* To my understanding I thought a vlsd was a clutch type..

No, if it was a clutch type people wouldn't be preloading it.

A VLSD is based on the viscous fluid dynamic to create a "drag" between the 2 halves inside the differential.

When 1 wheel starts to spin, the guts of the VLSD, more importantly the viscous fluid, will start to drag the other half along with it, creating a "differential" type effect, where both wheels are spinning.

A good example of this would be to take a glass of water, put some ice in it, and wet down the surface where the glass of water will sit on, and start spinning the glass. You should see the glass go first, then the ice will eventually start spinning along with the glass.

That motion is the same type of motion that happens inside a VLSD.

It has no clutch plates like the clutch type LSDs do.

Helical LSDs also do not have clutch plates. Helical LSDs are all gear based, no clutch plates.

where you add shims..do you have to shim the other side also or only the one side

wtf are you talking about??? read the thread mr 1 post new guy.

the shim goes between the diff head and the viscous coupler.

yeah i saw that but on another site they had the center section out. was just wondering

The diff came from the factory with ONE (1) shim, you either replace that one or stack on 2 littler ones to get a thicker effective height, what is so hard to understand about this?

i understand it all. im not retarded. on another site the guy had the center section of the diff taken out where the spiders where showing..completely out. was just wondering..i get the fact that you dont have to

those two rusted holes at the top are better for removing the cover, the cover hangs over the holes a tad, so you can take a flat head screw driver and pop off the cover without damaging anything.

paper gasket ftw :cool:

What shim originally comes in the diff? I am thinking about doing this, but I only want to make a small difference. I figure if I replace the stock shim with one that is one or two sizes thicker it should do just what I want. Since my car is a trackday/autocross car I really don't want the diff to lock in an aggressive manner.

You might have no choice but to open up your diff, then use a mic to see how thick it is, as I think the diffs can come from the factory with a few different thicknesses, which is why you can buy so many different thickness washers to begin with...

Yea what he said

Heres what I suggest:

Being that they are only a couple dollars, order 1.01 and 1.25. Open your diff and compare the shim that is in there to the 2 you bought, and base that off which one you choose for your application, then just go return the one you didn't use.

I love this thread

Me and motegi did it at the same time.

Its pretty awesome, I snapped my axle boots and have a lot of play.

Don't forget to align the splines to the axles before you tighten down the phillips screws after putting in the shim, it keeps you from ahving to take everything apart.

But yeah, shim size can vary, me and motegi's had different shims from the factory (we assume), I just plopped a random old one i had in a junk vlsd i had sitting around, no problems, no whines, no issues.

I traded my welded out for that, and im a million times happier (although my welded had some backlash adjustment issues which annoyed me.)

AVAILABLE SIDE GEAR THRUST WASHERS

Thickness mm (in) Part number
0.80 (0.0315) 38424 40F60
0.83 (0.0327) 38424 40F61
0.86 (0.0339) 38424 40F62
0.89 (0.0350) 38424 40F63
0.92 (0.0362) 38424 40F64
0.95 (0.0374) 38424 40F65
0.98 (0.0386) 38424 40F66
1.01 (0.0398) 38424 40F67
1.04 (0.0409) 38424 40F68
1.07 (0.0421) 38424 40F69
1.10 (0.0433) 38424 40F70
1.13 (0.0445) 38424 40F71
1.16 (0.0457) 38424 40F72
1.19 (0.0469) 38424 40F73
1.22 (0.0480) 38424 40F74
1.25 (0.0492) 38424 40F75
1.28 (0.0504) 38424 40F76
1.31 (0.0516) 38424 40F77
1.34 (0.0528) 38424 40F78
1.37 (0.0539) 38424 40F79
1.40 (0.0551) 38424 40F80
1.43 (0.0563) 38424 40F81
1.46 (0.0575) 38424 40F82

1.49 (0.0587) 38424 40F83

Just felt like adding some other pics I though would be nice to include on this thread:

2003 350z

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...410-123847.gif

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...410-123643.gif

:cool: nice I can use that diagram as a general reference when putting the new shim.
I bought 38424-40F82 and 38424-40F83
I'm gonna go try the smaller one first for a while

Does anyone here use a micrometer to measure the old shims to determine what size shim to go with when doing this mod or is everyone doing inni minni mini mo...???

I broke my old one and never use em enough to justify buying a new one.

sorry to bump and aold thread but looking at the parts list it shows the 01/1990+ Twin turbo and 07/1990 N/A to use the same shim.. I'll be giving this a go in a few weeks. i wore down my VLSD pretty bad at inland Drift... i was doing 1 tire Fires at the end of the night.

Is a r32 gts-t diff the same as the r200?

I am wondering the same thing. I just traded my welded dif for an r32 vlsd and am thinking about shimming it... I wonder if the shims everyone else is using will work.

To compliment your illustrations with a j30 vlsd...

btw: changing the shims to thicker or doubled up shims only increase the gear engagement on the internal spider gears ( 4 of them) which may be the blame for a ratcheting rear diff. This noise goes away once you have worn new patterns into the side and spider gears. in other words, Grinds The Metal and increases the friction/grip.

when you take the tolerances out of the factory gear setup, who cares what side the shims go on. should be the same long term result.

it does make a cheap 1.5 at the expense of a long living rear diff...

your choice.

~m

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/...80b394c0f1.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/...9f6b7f95c7.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/...c87a2f128d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/...6d736d9ebf.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/...9bba96e1d9.jpg

EDIT: this ring gear is from a 240sx 49:12. j30 come with 47:12
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2514/...4b326ffa36.jpg

:newbie:
Hey guys quick question, this is my 1st time cracking a diff open and im not to mechanically inclined :confused: so as im putting the diff back together i cant put the shafts that go into the VLSD back into place i can get one side in but not the other. Does this maybe mean when i put the 2 phillips screws back into place i unaligned the ring gear some how? any info would help alot thankz....

EDIT UPDATE:
Its freakin awsome just did a few figure 8's and its good to go. I had some issues with the splines because the viscous coupler splines ended up shifting to where the shafts that go into the VLSD wouldnt line up but re-did everything and its really worth it and a great mod by far and recomend it to anyone who cannot afford a fancy 1.5 or 2 way like me....

just picked up a shimmed j30 for pennies, dropping it in as soon as i get coils.

What are ya'll runnin for oil? 75w90?

Sorry to bring an old thread back to life but i'm really considering doing this to my 350Z. My concern is the spider gears overtime... has anyone opened their diff back up after using this mod for a few months or more after track day abuse? Unfortunately my Z is my daily driver so I don't want to do anything that could affect really reliability.

Now if the spider gears will indeed get worn over time, can they be replaced rather easily? Also why kind of issues can I expect trying to drive with worn spider gears?

No one??? Who has had this mod on their diff for at least a few thousand miles or more? Any negative side effects or problems?

This is also interesting for me, I would like to hear from some people who have daily driven on this modification since they last posted and hear what they have to say about the longevity. That being the only thing to stop me from doing this. I think that if I do decide to do this mod that I am going to buy 3 or 4 shims in the middle range, measure the one that is in my diff now and base my decision on which one to use off of that. Thing is, what thickness was the original one in the diff of the o.p.?

Com'on guys someone has to have this mod in their drift machine...

how long does it take to brake in the thrust washer? i just did mine wednesday and it still feels like a welded diff.

i did some drifting that night after i got done putting it in and its raining all day and night tonight so im going to drift the shit out of it tonight, i dont mine the welded diff feeling as longs is it goes away because i know it needs to be broken in, i also daily drove a sc300 with 2jzgte swap and that wasnt fun at all

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point, for the VLSD to feel like a welded diff, except only spending a few bucks and a few hours of your time.

Still wondering if anyone had any probs with this mod... I'm going to be changing out the bushings on my diff next weekend and am considering doing this mod while i have the diff out.

there are no problems besides people whining because their diff is locked

I'd still like to hear from someone whos had this done for a considerable time frame, a year or more, to see how their diff is now compared to when it was first done, problems, etc.

Does this mod make the same clunking sound as a real LSD does at low/tight cornering speeds?

go home! you're retarded! they are talking about the clutch type rear differential. not the clutch or the automatic clutch packs... learn please!:down:

only way to learn is to do it yourself.

shim it up.

Im about to do this to my z32 diff..... same part no. washers?

also im looking for a hard lock but still streetable setup as its a DD

should i just add a .8 shim to the one in there or get a 1.49 (or 1.25?) and replace the one in there

great write-up

To all the questions. I forgot how long ago I wrote this thing, I have since sold my 240 over a year ago but the current owner is running the same diff and it has 10k+ miles on it and he is loving it. Except he blew up my sr :-(

Im on mine still...
love it
this is a few days ago. and I did the swap yr ago?
I drive daily. put on 15k from nh to boston every few days.
GET SOME!
B on Vimeo

Yes, r32 diff's are r200 casing.

I can't believe that nobody here actually measures their tolerances with a micrometer. If you add too many shimm's you could grenade the diff.

Also, where is everybody getting this 1.5 way stuff from? You will rather have a open diff, VLSD, or a fully locked diff with a little bit of play compared to a welded diff. A true shimmed diff is often considered the two way of a locked diff world...that is to say it is more forgiving than a welded diff, but by no means a clutch type diff as far as daily driving characteristics.

I have had several shimmed diffs now and never had any problems. I use one in my solely dedicated s14 race car. I had it in my old s14 that was a daily driver/weekend drift car too. It can be a bit of a pain in the ass daily driving, but if find that if you physically shift into neutral (not just pushing the clutch in) and coast around a corner, it is 100 times smoother than just trying to drive around a corner with a shimmed diff.

The only problem I have seen with a shimmed diff was the shimm wearing down and the diff stopped locking (only spun one wheel). To me, this is much better than having a welded diff go bad, because you can still drive home!

Remember, people have been shimming diffs in Japan for a LONG time. People don't weld diffs over here very often (as welding is a bit more pricey) and probably because shimmed diffs are safer/reliable. In fact, the only people that I know who run a welded diff are some D1 drivers.

I hope my input helps answer some of the questions and doubts that I have read in this old thread.

i think i need a bigger backyard so i can do that^ but which shim sizes did u use?

So the replacement shims vary from 0.80 to 1.49 mm. I've been told that adding just one of the thinnest shims will be nothing like a 2-way, but just more like a new VLSD. Which is exactly what I want. This car is purely for grip, and will never see a drift event. I want as little decel effect as possible. Should I just steer clear of this, or go for the single 0.80? I could also try and come up with a combination of shims that are only 0.40-0.60 thicker than whatever stock shim is already in there.

idk but ima put the .8 shim in and ill let u kno.im on a open diff now :/ prolly lyk next week ill throw up the vlsd

btw the .8 gave me a completely solid rear.(welded feeling) hopping and skipping.very rough kicks into drifts great though lol

hey guys, I picked up a vlsd recently, but people convinced me that it will just turn into an open diff faster than i can blink. after reading this I would like to go this route as I am not a total baller like some.

I drive a s13 93 hatch open diff uni driveshaft 6 bolt output shafts

I picked up a s14 95 abs vlsd.

Ive done some research an the abs vlsd pumpkin shouuld be too long to fit under my car with no clearance for the drive shaft to fit.

I thought about swapping internals, would this be ok?! any problems or fabricating I will run into? I know I have to swap back covers, and need half shafts if they didn't fit but I got the half shafts and also the axles just in case.