Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring
 

09-30-2008 08:02 AM

<p>Filed under: <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/category/supercars/" rel="tag">Supercars</a>, <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/category/nissan/" rel="tag">Nissan</a>, <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/category/porsche/" rel="tag">Porsche</a></p><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940153/"><img vspace="4" hspace="4" border="1" src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/09/gtrpriceincrease.jpg" alt=""></a><strong><br></strong>
<div align="center"><strong><em><small>Click above for high-res gallery of the Nissan GT-R</small></em></strong><br></div>
<br>Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/gt-r-drops-ring-time-down-to-7-29/">7:29:03</a> lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/22/round-1-gt-r-vs-911-turbo-at-the-ring-advantage-gt-r/">suspicious</a> of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim. <br><br>How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/01/video-nissan-gt-r-7-29-ring-run/">footage of the GT-R</a> lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.<br><br>Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/gt-r-drops-ring-time-down-to-7-29/">issue a press release</a> commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.<br><br><div><p><strong>Gallery: <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/">In the Autoblog Garage: 2009 Nissan GT-R</a></strong></p><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940153/"><img src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/nissanskylinegtr_abg_01_thumbnail.jpg" alt="" title=""></a><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940154/"><img src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/nissanskylinegtr_abg_02_thumbnail.jpg" alt="" title=""></a><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940155/"><img src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/nissanskylinegtr_abg_03_thumbnail.jpg" alt="" title=""></a><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940156/"><img src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/nissanskylinegtr_abg_04_thumbnail.jpg" alt="" title=""></a><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/photos/in-the-autoblog-garage-2008-nissan-gtr/940157/"><img src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/07/nissanskylinegtr_abg_05_thumbnail.jpg" alt="" title=""></a></div><br>[Source: <a href="http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/">Carsguide</a>]<h6 style="clear:both;padding:8px 0 0 0;height:2px;font-size:1px;border:0;margin:0;padding:0"></h6><a href="http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/">Read</a>Â*|Â*<a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent link to this entry">Permalink</a>Â*|Â*<a href="http://www.autoblog.com/forward/1328382/" title="Send this entry to a friend via email">Email this</a>Â*|Â*<a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/#comments" title="View reader comments on this entry">Comments</a>
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i wouldnt be surprised if they did use different tires. run-flats arn't really performance oriented to begin with. they should be OPTIONAL, not standard.

even still it is an amazing car, and check out top gears lap times for it, simply astonishing.

I think Porsche is looking for any excuse possible to prove Nissan wrong. Of course run flats are not going to perform as well. For Porsche to just grab a showroom U.S, car to test against their GT2 one has to ask is there GT2 a U.S. spec showroom GT2 as well?

the Germans are just sore losers. they have been bitter since the days that the Z's came out and were beating 911's in the 70's.

Angry German = sauerkraut?

I think the problem is that for safety regulations the car must be equipped with either a spare tire or runflats...

it seems a lot of automakers are opting for run flats over a donut, I suppose it's easier to just install different tires then it is to design and build in locations to store a donut and jack.

...not to mention the concept of a run flat sells better than trying to convince someone that they don't have them because of the performance benefits.

Exactly. Angry Japanese guy= SoSueMe?

lol you guys hahahhahhahhaha

Porsche better be right in their accusations, otherwise I'm definitely not buying that 911 I wasn't considering.

If Porsche does turn out to be wrong, then it means that the GTR is impossibly fast and more kudos to the Nissan engineers.

i think ill take the porshe around the track for a 15 minute lap time. then describe the results as objective.

Looks like Nissan engineers are coming up too fast for Porsche to strike back engineering wise. Thus, the accusation was made. A marque of Porsche's stature should have just handled it differently. Sad indeed.

Either that or porsche knows they're right. I think in most track situations porsche would pwn the gtr. Stock vs Stock. Porsche brakes and oil coolers and suspension are just race duty parts where GTR isn't. Germans are analytical and if they say it's 29 seconds off with stock tires then it's probably a 20 lap computerized statistical analysis where the net result on a good day average is 29 seconds. Even bruno senna made a remark about that on 5th gear when he drove the two head to head. The GTR did great for one lap but with the weight of the car the performance could not be sustained.

The fucking evo 10 Is faster than the porsche.. YouTube - Nissan GT-R v the World: GT-R v R8 v 911 v STI v Evo v Elise


Everyone Is hating on the GTR

Sounds like porsche is jealous

They changed tires...big fucking whoop even if they did. If they changed the suspension, then that might be a legit moan and groan. Anybody can change tires. He'll most people who buy sportscars probably change tires anyway to cater their own personal needs. I know if I ever buy a sports car, im changing those bitches to AD07s quick.

^^^ i can understand that its just tires, and i agree its no big deal. but lets say porsche is right, then nissan should have used the tires they used to claim that track time as the production model tires.

I beat the bot haha #/f/2353375-post1003.html

I didn't cheat either.

No big deal?

Let porsche put some slicks on the 911 and the GT and take it around again... :rolleyes:

You guys think Porsche would put this kind of schenanigans out without actually testing it a bunch of times? Walter Rohrl probably drove it around and said it can't be done. I'd take that source as reliable.

lol yeah i guess your right, anything that can affect 25 seconds....is kind of a big deal. I agree that porsche is a legit ass company and i highly doubt they would make a statement like this without being able to back it up.

I cant wait to hear an official statement made by nissan about this.

Not saying this is the end all or anything, but out of curiosity I looked up some times on top gear's test track:

8. 1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R
10. 1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
18. 1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS
41. 1:26.2 – Porsche 911 Carrera S

The 911 Turbo placed 78th with a time of 1.31.0, but the track was "very wet".

+1, tire compound is a huge factor. Just by changing tire compounds you can drop seconds off your time, and that's just on an AutoX size course. It's why some classes let you run street tires, semi race, and full slicks.

If nissan didn't run the ring as we were let to believe "off the showroom" that is not good.

Either way the (personally not a fan) Viper ACR ran a 7:22. Goodnight ZR1 and GTR.

Video > 2009 Dodge Viper ACR on the Nurburgring | Concept Photos, Reviews, & More at Motortrend.com

Shift damn it :mepoke:

^^^ ....god i know....im not a fan either but that thing is insane. Everything ive read on it basically describes it as the car Jesus would be rollin in. wow....dude on that vid doesnt like to shift does he?

but still.....
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...Vipermeets.jpg

^Bwaahahahaha so true.

YouTube - Viper ACR vs Corvette ZR1 at The Nurburgring

Sauerkraut's nickname is victory cabbage

therefore, Angry German = Victory Cabbage?

lol dunno maybe porshe is gunna bust these gt-r guys on somthin.

Well that's simple to prove. Why not Nissan just put race slicks on the GT-R and post a much better time then the 7:29 to prove them it was factory tires, this will make em shut the hell up!

i dont know much about the gtr. i havnt stopped at the nissan dealer yet. but from what i remember reading its what, like 47x hp, and 44x torque, with a 0-60 at like 3.5 right? being that i havnt driven one, and will not likely ever will, i dont know how they handle. i do love nissan, but i also like porsche very much. the turbo is rated at 480hp, 460 torque, and a 0-60 of 3.4. now i dont think there is too much difference in handling between the two cars. but for the skyline to be 9 seconds faster than the turbo on that track is a huge difference. i dont know if the 25 seconds slower thing is real or porsche is just trying to make nissan look real bad. but it wouldnt surprise me that nissan did maybe change tires and gave them that 9 second advantage over the turbo. i honestly think that the skyline should be around the same time as the turbo. the gt2 is a very very limited production porsche that is now out of production again. it also boasts more power and less weight, with incredible handling. so to compare the skyline to the gt2 is not right. the gt2 i think did the ring in like what 1.30 or something real close to that. it of course is also twice the price of the gtr. i'm just trying to state things objectively.

The GTR comes with two tire options michelins or dunlops, the dunlops are not run flats IIRC so they may have provided better grip. Whereas porsche probably grabbed one with the crappy michelins on it.

EDIT** It's Bridgestones and Dunlops for the US cars, not sure which ones the Germans had.

^and porsche's use bridgestone and michelin. maybe they should run both cars using the bridgestones because they're probably the same tire. would only make sense....lol

Which Porsche? Ive seen many come with Continental tires and Pirelli's.

The GTR's we've had on our lots all had Dunlops. I havent come across any Bridgestone ones yet.