those videos.... sigh. so many stupid people in America, and in the entire world.

Moving to canada soon, lol.

so after watching that it just seems to confirm what i already was thinking that this is the single largest tax hike in US history.

That's exactly what it is.

There is no excuse in the 21st century for any American to not have health coverage.

If we reduced our military spending by 75%, we'd still be spending more than any other country.

It is completely asinine to discuss ANY OTHER SUBJECT when looking to reduce spending. EVERY OTHER THING YOU CAN THINK OF is a drop in the bucket compared to our out of control "defense" budget.

We have more military bases around the world than there are countries. We spend more on our military than the next ten nations combined.

People having healthcare is not the problem. People having healthcare is not A problem. My healthcare keeps my teeth white, my eyes covered in nice new glasses every year, and when I get prostate cancer, they'll take it out instead of letting me die slowly, and this runs me about $60/month. If you don't have health insurance, you're either poor as shit or stupid as fuck.


Canada has universal health insurance, you fucking ponce. Good luck finding a first world country that doesn't.

Who's your insurance provider?

so your solution is to legislate health insurance by forcing private citizens?

Who gives a shit if every other country does it. If everyone jumped off a cliff, you'd jump too?

Yeah our military spending is out of control. But all that is nothing but debt spending, replacing it with more debt spending on health care isn't going to change shit.

Of course these are the same Einsteins that tell us that insurance tied to your employment is STUPID.

Gee I wonder who wrote that into the tax code decades ago?

The same idiots who now say it's BAD.

Now they're telling us this further intervention is going to be the best thing ever. It's going to work this time because they CARE about you. Laws of economics be damned.

This depends largely on your employer and many other factors. Most won't get anywhere near that good of a bargain or end up with a very high deductible at that rate.

Youre the same blinded people that hurt this country everyday. You choose to see only the small picture, you're narrow minded and nieve. Everyone should have health insurance, SHOULD being the main word. No one should be forced into that decision and no one should be forced into universal coverage. Women and men have different needs and same goes for young and old. You're paying $60/mth because your employer is probably paying the other 80% of the costs. Take it from someone in the insurance field, thus reform has not helped the majority, but very few who either have pre existings or don't make enough money to pay for insurance. Those middle class and above are left out to dry, for the most part. The fact you say "If you don't have health insurance, you're either poor as shit or stupid as fuck" shows how truely dumb you are. Simply having insurance doesnt make you smart or prove you have money, but at least its a choice we used to have. No one argues about the necessity of having insurance.
There are plenty of people who are stupid as fuck, you included, that think we need to cut military spending. Why wouldn't you want a shit ton going to protecting your freedoms against people who plot everyday to kill Americans and our way of life? I'd go broke to make sure our country, its freedoms and most of all troop aren't hindered in any way. This reform is going to add 1.3 trillion to our debt, but you want to cut military spending? Retarded, go home you're drunk

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One point.

Whether you believe everyone should be personally responsible for their health insurance or not - All of us who do have health insurance are on the hook for those that do not have it.

So you socialist idiots who think you are invincible - stop being so socialist and leaching off my premiums and get your own shit!

PS. I think this conservative ACA, initially put forward by the Heritage Foundation, is poopy.

obamacare is just another attack on the middle class. I am all for universal health care for everyone but that is not what obamacare is. The only people it hurts are the middle class families who employers do not provide health care and small business's. The poor get medicare and the rich don't give a fuck.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ agree!!!!!

the only people it hurts is the middle class? that is a very ignorant statement and belief. obamacare hurts everyone. you really think medicare does much of anything for poor people? and anytime a government forces a people to buy something goes against the very idea of being free and hurts everyone. i wish i could force some people to read common sense by thomas paine or the declaration of independence or the constitution or the articles of confederation or the federalist papers along with a slew of others about concering freedom and governments proper place. yes it hurts the middle class, yes it won't affect the rich as much but poor people are going to suffer as well, particularly those that can barely afford to live already. the issue should be one of freedom and not of class. start thinking about others freedom and others rights to do with their life, incomes and property as they see fit as long as they do not infringe upon someone elses rights and freedom to do the same.

the lower class will be hurt by obamacare too, no doubt. But, they also qualify for huge amounts of subsidies and other aid from our wonderful government, where as the middle class does not, and pay out the ass in taxes already. Isn't that just wonderful.

Some people want healthcare for their own reasons and some don't.

Why force people to do things that they do not want/agree with? unless we are living in under the communism or ruled by a dictator?

Simple as that.

Because all people will eventually require medical care of some sort. If you don't have insurance then who is going to pay for your medical bills?

That's the whole point of Insurance.


Insurance - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
: an agreement in which a person makes regular payments to a company and the company promises to pay money if the person is injured or dies, or to pay money equal to the value of something (such as a house or car) if it is damaged, lost, or stolen


If you don't pay for insurance, then the person who gets injured is suppose to pay, duh. It's business. And, if you believe people should receive free health care/universal health care then you study to become a doctor and live the rest of your life providing free health care for no pay.

Yes, they are supposed to pay. Unfortunately that's not how it works. People with no insurance go to the ER to receive treatment that they can't pay for. The cost to the hospital gets passed on to insurance companies in the form of higher costs, and then to people like me in the form of higher premiums. So, in essence, I have already been paying for poor/irresponsible persons' insurance.

Pay your own bills if you don't have insurance simple as that I am sure the person chose that way.

How can you say all people will eventually require medical care? You speak for every single human being?

You want insurance? go head good for you. you don't? better know risk not having one but good for you.

And for some reason they are going to stop going to ER after Obamacare?

Good luck to seeing the doctor when you need. Either your sickness will be gone or you are ganna be die before you get to see the doctor. So what people would do?, go to ER and get the job done.

And somehow we have to pay for their ER bills?

You don't have an argument here.

K, you're not even good at strawmen or obfuscation... did you even read that stuff before posting it? I could crush my own side of this disagreement, compared to that feeble crap you wrote.

No I did not read 30,000 pages of Obamacare manual. Please school me on Obamacare because I sure am not the expert to explain or understand entire thing.

What am I missing here?

Another strawman, with the intent of obfuscation.

I meant, did you read your own posts, not did you read the Affordable Care Act, as a competent speaker of english would have understood. The Affordable Care Act was not the subject of my post, your pathetic attempt at debate was.

Excuse my self not being a native English speaker. I even had to google what "Straw man" meant.

I was not trying to debate. I was just expressing my thoughts on obamacare is all.

Incorrect. "progressive" aka leftist/socialist groups wrote most of the bill. Different groups wrote pieces of it over several years, basically since the original idea was pushed during the Clinton administration. All of their pieces were just thrown together in a matter of weeks when the subject came up in 09. Neither insurance companies or healthcare professionals had any significant input in the writing of the bill. 99% was written by leftist PAC's and those pieces were assembled by congressional staff.

Actually social programs completely overshadow our defense spending. Defense is the last thing that should have spending cut in a budget. Even though we spend a ton on defense, more is spent on social programs. Every last social program in existence should be cut before defense spending is cut. Period. You are right about Canada though, it always cracks me up when I hear someone say they are moving there during an ACA debate.

Most people don't choose to not have insurance. They just can't afford to have it.

What percentage of people do you figure will never require some sort of medical care? Is this really your argument?

Actually, democrats originally advocated the single-payer healthcare system (where the government covers healthcare costs instead of insurance companies). They compromised with republicans in 2009/2010 to get the healthcare reform version that we have today (which is essentially Romneycare). The funny part is that the much maligned "individual mandate" that requires people to carry health insurance was actually first proposed by republicans in 1993 as a response to Bill Clinton's healthcare reform bill.

I am not the best person to debate but let me ask you this.

Lots of people including me don't own a Porsche because can't afford it.
Will you and other people pick up the tab for me?

My argument is people should have choices to get insurance or not.
Because we don't live under communism as far as I know.

Yes, because not having a Porsche and not having health insurance are effectively the same thing. My uncle had a heart attack and no insurance, so instead of going to the hospital in an ambulance, I took him to the Porsche dealership to buy a Cayenne. :ugh:

You do have the choice. You have to pay a penalty because when you need insurance and don't have it then someone else has to pay for your medical bills. Like I said before, the individual mandate that requires you to carry insurance was originally proposed by republicans (more specifically, the Heritage Foundation, a right-wing organization), and advocated by people like Newt Gingrich to eliminate what they called "free riders" (or those poor people seeking care for free in the ER).

[QUOTE=The Dude;5467323]
Actually, democrats originally advocated the single-payer healthcare system (where the government covers healthcare costs instead of insurance companies). They compromised with republicans in 2009/2010 to get the healthcare reform version that we have today (which is essentially Romneycare). [QUOTE]


The Democrats actually did almost no compromising. They controlled the White House, Senate, and House in those years and took almost no Republican input. Also, the ACA is almost nothing like Romneycare. Romneycare was only a 75 page bill, the ACA is 11,000. The left loves to say how Romneycare was what the ACA was designed from, but it is simply not true.