cause it's pretty damn low to the grand and it's being held to the chassis by two brackets so the unsprung weight is roughly half its affect vs having the correct rate for the swaybar is negligible.

I'd go on a limb and say a solid sway bar offers significant stiffness of the same diameter of a hallow sway bar... I just need to dig up my books again.

Btw someone buy my white lightning rear sway bar (22mm) and has holes for adjustment. :drool:

The fact that half of it is unsprung weight is even MORE of a reason to get a lighter sway bar. It's low to the ground, but the front one is one of the further forward "heavy" items. Our cars need less weight up front, so I don't see how saving an easy 8-12 lbs way up front is "negligible."

A hollow bar just slightly larger than a solid bar is just as stiff. The stiffness in torsion goes up in proportion to the outer diameter raised to the fourth power. To find the stiffness of a hollow bar just subject the inner diameter raised to the fourth power. It doesn't take long to realize that it doesn't take a much larger hollow bar to equal a solid bar's stiffness.

Sooooo

I went to take my tie rod off today.

As I was trying to break it loose, BAM!

I got it loose! COOL!

Oh wait....

NEVERMIND,

That was actually the little notches on my Driftworks rack spacers that keep the spacers from spinning.

Cool.

I guess I tightened my tie rod too much?

But really?

REALLY? -______________________________-

oh and the sikky bars are indeed hollow confirmed from another user and he also said that it is lighter than stock which is great just like my tanabe...

only benefit going to tanabe for being chromoly vs sikky being steel

These look rad.

Opinions?

Haha, that's what happened to us!!!! AAHHHHHHHHH.

[QUOTE=!Zar!;4173109]These look rad.

Opinions?

Yup I saw that.... I asked my friend who is a spoon reseller... Hopefully get some info on it....

I don't see the advantage over what we already have in regard to subframe collars/bushings.

W the collars and or bushings you can still move the subframe/crossmember around a bit before its tightened...There is space between the bolt and the bolt sleeve itself, I know for sure that my subframes when I put them back on are probably not in the complete best possible place. I think our old cars would definitely benefit if they were available.

Zar; Speedhunters had a spoon article a few weeks ago and had this product in there, maybe check it out.

Someone make a knock off, because paying that much for a sleeve is just stupid. It's $270 for a silvia set.

There was some discussion about it on the Honda forums. Everyone agreed that it would be a very minimal improvement and not worth it.

i thought shitty suspension on s-chassis is what made them such good drift cars?

That video is retarded, comparing 2 cars. The one where the car jumps around more probably has no sub-frame bolts at all.
All it those is keep sub-frame from moving a hair horizontal, I don't understand what is the video all about the car moving vertically.

The Spoon things address a problem that's not really there. Unless the bolts are out, the subframe's not going to move, and already efficiently transfers forces to the frame.

And that's exactly what was I thinking. The clamping force of the stud/nut isn't going to let it slop around at all...in fact if it does you'd know in a heat beat. The origina/aftermarket bushings in the poly mounts or solid mounts don't really allow a ton of movement.


In the grand scheme, I see the subframe coconut things being just as effective.

But these can also go on the front crossmember, and there are no bushings available for the front crossmember.

front crossmember is pinned to the chassis. so there won't be a lot of slop there.

I've never seen evidence that my subframes are moving around on my cars once properly torqued. That's a lot of frictional force to overcome, and if it was frequently moving around, it'd probably wear the subframe/bolt head down due to the large normal force.

I have been thinking about picking some offset rack spacers up as well. heard lots of negative things about them though. how do you lke them? big difference compared to running without them?

The problem Spoon is addressing isn't after everything is torqued.... it's WHILE you are torquing/installing.

Try loosening the bolts on the x-member (or almost any suspension component) and you may notice some play in the bolt holes.

When torquing these bolts the twisting motion of the bolt head can move the x-member very slightly so instead of the x-member being perfectly square with the chassis it's now slightly crooked causing unwanted suspension characteristics.

Those hole spacers are supposed to keep everything centered for easy/accurate install.

The amount of play is probably negligible though and if you were really worried about it you could probably trace some circles around the bolt holes to be sure they are centered on the bolt head when torquing.

i do find that spoon video interesting... i mean i rather hear some engineers shine in but it seems one of those things to attain detail perfect on the smallest scale combining with other minor corrections on the car overall in the long run equaling overall improvements...

Kind of like how older cars had really poor tolerances on spaces, edges and other parts of the car's construction... and more modern cars are becoming physically built tighter, more rigid, more refined, etc... in the production of parts, fitment etc...

Those Spoon spacers are pretty neat, I'm sure there are a couple of places that would be nice to have such a precise alignment/fit. If you're using SPL's solid mounts, for the rear at least, then this problem is corrected. The bolt to bushing fitment on their mounts is probably 0.005" - 0.010"

im sure those spacers help a little but not enough to be noticeable to the driver. but my question is why would they use a prius to demonstrate there new performance product lol.

^b/c they're Japanese... enough said.

Srsly? You fail at teh read. :picardfp:

OK so I have an s13 with max knuckles, s14 control arms, s14 inner and outer tie rods, georges's spacers on both sides to make my tie rods long enough to reach the second hole in the knuckles. Now that I have it all together I don't see a noticable difference in angle between the holes. Could this be due to me having moved my inner tie rod pivot point to far outwards? also how much do caster and camber come into play in this? From what I have read and can grasp caster can aid with over centering issues but can it get me more angle. I forget which direction is which for caster too. My caster is 7 3/32 and my camber is -3 29/32.I have lots of space before get to the knuckle touching the control arm but I think I will have to put bump stops in so I dont hit my sway bar. thanks for any input and if you need more information I will try to get it.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/IMG_0245.jpg

Take your caster down to 6 1/2 or even 6 degrees. You will have to adjust your toe again, but it should give you a few more degrees of angle.

Making the tension rod longer will give less positive caster.

So moving the tire backwards in the wheel well/ lengthening the tension rod will give me less positive caster and more angle. ok makes sense thanks for that. I have since played with it a bit and I am now limited by my sway bar.thanks for the reply.

I thought this was a cool shot of the DW S15 all loaded up at an extreme angle.

http://www.drifted.com/wp-content/up...d5-iang-29.jpg

^^^^

Amazing pic and amazing car. Possibly one of the best drift cars in the world!

Dunno if I mentioned but i hsve dw knuckles now, not drifted on them yet but they do feel good. not much difference to my own homemade job though lol.

The rears neef sphericals and stand alone handbrakr caliper brackets before they are fitted :)

great stuff