someone need to post a stock s13/s14 ride height and lest look at how nissan originally had it.

Basiclly, you're trying to find a happy medium between squat and anti squat. Then depending on how the weight transfers to the rear tune it for what works for your application.

It's a JZX90/100 Toyota Chaser/Cresta/Mark II

I see. Good idea. I hadn't thought of that. That arm on top is the RUCA. I'm still have no idea on how to correct that, besides raising the subframe.

Yeah, I don't want my car having 4x4 status. :P

That doesn't surprise me becuase I've heard the JZX-chassis was built to compete with the BMW sedans. Would I just use subframe spacers like Parts Shop Max makes for th S-chassis?

Good to know. Thanks.

ok so this thread inspired me! I had a spare set of knuckles and lower control arms. I took some 1/8th" plate i had and cut it out cleaned it up and boxed the lower control arm. need to weld one more plate on to add some more strength. Then i did some research on Knuckle modification

P/s knuckle TOP and NON p/s knuckle Bottom
http://www.club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_...ering_arms.jpg


These are the "D1 SUPER ANGLE" modified shortened stock p/s knuckles! SHORT!!!!
http://www.musclebear.jp/images/original02.png

Anyways I have a friend with a good welder and a oxy acetylene torch and we can heat them up and weld it up nice! Im going to post more pictures of them modified tomorrow!

great thread. All newbie drifts looking to setup their suspension for drifting, look here first!
Me thinks this should be sticky in Motorsport forum or something.

thanks for posting this!

you definitely don't need to modify suspension pick up points or steering angle or even give a shit about roll center to do drifting

90% of the people looking to do these mods still don't have the driver skill to require them

See...

You're a cool dude, but honestly, everytime someone tries to talk technical stuffs, you spew that crap out...

Fixing the roll center will allow the car to corner flatter, especially the front, so instead of running like 15k springs up front and a 50mm sway bar, you can run 8k springs and stock sway bars and have the car stay mostly flat. How does that require more skills to notice?

Even BH noticed his car rolls a bit much during drifts, and it shows on the banner pic on his blog.

He has said that he doesn't care about it, so that's cool, it's up to him how he wants to setup his car (although he has said he wanted to buy Tanabe sways to remedy that situation), but he doesn't come onto any of the roll center and other technical discussion threads and tell how everyone sucks at driving and they shouldn't care.

Geez dude.

BTW thanks for uploading Video Option Vol 81 on youtube. That's the one with the Stinger team. Appreciate it!

Am I way off base here?? I'm getting ready to make my own coilover setup and would like some feedback.............

^ For which application?

Oh hey I just realized it you man, how's it going?

You might not feel the difference. That's probably cause you're too busy struggling to shove your elbow into the door sill to prop yourself to see over the dash as you car is riding on two wheels through any corner.

J/k J/k. Anyway, all kidding aside. I'd put modifying roll center up there with adding a sway bar or stiffer springs. It's makes a huge difference.

Basically you want it just under your center of gravity. I think what Def is saying is that the rear arms don't need to be corrected as much because they don't go to such extreme angles like the front ones do.

I'm pretty sure having both front and rear angled slightly up is ideal. The center of gravity on these cars is pretty low, but not low enough to warrant flat arms.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'll edit this post afterward. The reason I edit my posts is because I don't want to have any misinformation in this thead. Sometimes people don't read through things all the way and get the wrong ideas, and I don't want that happening here.

SoSideways said it already, but we know this. I think what carparthookup was saying was that the newbies should check this stuff out first, because bottom line, your car will function better with these kind of suspension setups.

It doesn't take any more skill to use a better-functioning suspension.

I can see what you're saying about the angle mods, because they DO take more skill to use.

Keep the stupid comments to the minimum gentlemen :) So far this thread kicks ass :D I wish driftworks would respond i contacted them with questions but no response yet

Yeah bro. All you're doing by making custom damper housings is using a longer shock. There is no way to correct your roll center/suspension movement using coilovers, besides riding like a 4x4.

I'm currently communicating with Ben from Driftworks concerning his rear knuckles. So far this is what I know.
1. they won't modify their design to work with the z32 rear fork type
2. custom roll center adjustment is a NO and will remain fixed at the height listed.

I got a few more questions asked and I'll post 'em up as I get answers.

This is for an AE86 yes?

On number two, you can't really go a whole lot farther otherwise you interfere with the axle boot. This is the what Dan from Parts Shop MAX has to say about it:

shit that means ill have to mod my shocks to be stock s13 bushing type not z32 fork type........

what about spherical bearings as opposed to polyurethane ones...

Don't fuck up another thread by making useless posts.

Fair warning to everybody.

I'm not sure... I asked them if OEM ones had the same diameter of the stock ones. In that case you should be able to use Def's spherical bearings. I'll talk to my local fab shop to modify the knuckles if I get them. I asked a few details about their knuckle's geometry in the rear... that's most important.

ya i already got def's sphericals in the rear... i dun think i can just press them out lol... and reuse them.. they'll be fubared by the time i take them out hahaha... it would just be less of a pain in the ass if they had an option with them already... seriously... but oh well.

I'm curious about that aswell

that is likely to be the case, it's what happened to the ones we took out while making adjustments.

If you are using a modified drop spindle in the rear, would there even be an extra benefit to using Z32 rear fork?

My first thought is that it wouldnt matter at all, but if someone knows, please enlighten me.....

There wouldn't from a user point of view.
There would from a manufacturing one though, it's easier by far make to make an upright that utilizes a fork style mount IMO.

There is no real benefit using one type or another, but the reason why some of us have the fork type is because we're using the z32 rear aluminum spindles to save UNSPRUNG weight.

8lbs per corner if I'm not mistaken. It's significantly lighter just by feel... its a no brainer.

Edit: Aluminum vs iron no brainer :hahano:

Oh ok, thats what I thought. I know Kawabata's GP Sports 180SX uses BNR34 rear spindles for weight savings too, but I thought there was some other "black magic" going on under there....lol

Anyway, I wanted to share with you guys this scan from Doriten of the modified rear spindles that Team Evolution uses on their cars:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ionKnuckle.jpg

I noticed the toe arm position being moved; does the Driftworks one do that too?

If someone wants the hi-res/4mb file, I can email it.

we need engrish translat0rz

What they're doing there is the same thing the JIC team (and that S15 that KA-turbo posted) does. They're cutting off the toe and coilover mount and re-welding them lower. This makes the toe arm parallel with the lower control arm and corrects your toe curve when really low.

I think they move the coilover mount just so they don't have to max out the lowness on the coilover.

The lower control arm ball joint might be a little lower there too. This would correct roll center a hair.

Just a side note, but that lower control arm that they "made" looks janky.

Also, if someone actually made aluminum drop knuckles, it would probably be the coolest thing ever.

They would also probably cost a ridiculous amount of money.

So much so that I would probably just buy steel. I'm guessing the driftworks ones are a little lighter than stock anyway.

Well they should offer an aluminum and spherical option... especially when some of us are interseted in extracting maximum performance. I mean correcting geometry is a bigger pro/gain than anything else for the most part... but going back to something that potentially heavier and binding (polyurethane) is not cool. As mmdb said though we COULD make/buy alternatively sphericals as he and I already have... but why not have a product already with that err..

And why should it be automatically 'expensive', that sounds stupid. If Nissan could bring both on a factory car, an aftermarket one should be available with little to no difference equally.

At the end of the day all we're getting is the effort of someone else who figured out how to move these points and then cast/forge/put together magically with their choice of metal/material. A. Because alot of us dont have the knowledge B. Don't have the connections.

That being said, just because its aluminum doesnt mean that it should cost automatically more on the price. Think about it... The s13 and z32 spindles are not that different just different material and fork vs bushing type. They are overall the same shit.

Parts Shop MAX bro.

You just have to wait.

Someone tell me if this sounds stupid. For the longest time now, I've been wanting to do z32 knuckles, get the stance lower sleeve for the z32's and upgrade my gr+ to gr+ pro, with the addition of the tender or "helper" spring. Also lately I've been wanting to go with the s14 subframe, but find it cumbersome to change my diff cover, find the metal offset bushings, deal with my 17x10 +22 with 275/40/17 being pushed out 5mm (s14 subframe being wider) or whatever and not adding more camber.

Does anyone know if you could carefully cut the s14 front rlca mounts off the s14 subframe, and cut the s13's off and weld the s14 mounts on the s13 subframe? To me this sounds easier than dicking with the entire s14 subframe. Or just welding tabs on myself and not even buy a s14 subframe.

Pros
-So I don't want a wider subframe becuase I'm already close on clearance with the wheels/tires with a roll and pull
-Don't want to buy more expensive offset subframe bushigns
-Have a super clean s13 subframe
-Keep my diff cover
-Keep my exhuast hanger location

Cons
-fabbing the tabs for the rlca

Also what subframe bushings does everyone recommend? I'm looking for most overall grip with little concern about noise or vibration. I've tried mmr-direct but ehh not sure if I like them, I dont think it retained factory anti-squat.

-PSM
-SPL
-Nismo
-MMR
-Oem filled or collared

Sorry if this seems just thrown out there, my mind is scrambled.

What about Powerd by Max sub frame bushings? How much do they raise the pick up points vrs the s14 subframe? Also cutting and welding on your subframe sounds like a great idea to me.

you just scrambled mine with that post..lol


If I gather your post correctly you want to make new mounts in the rear subframe to except s14 rlca's on to your s13 subframe but at the same location?

Arnt the rlca's the same. I had them side by side and they are almost identical. One has more metal than the other, but Im pretty sure they mount the same. Please correct me if Im wrong. I just had them at the shop side by side, but didnt actually measure them.

Or are you taking about the RLCA's mounting location at the subframe in refrence to the s14 vs. s13 subframes. I wouldnt dick with the mounting points on the subframe. I just dont really understand your reason.

So true....things dont have to be expensive. i remember when there where like two people selling knuckle.....$499 + shipping. Alot of us got smart and decided there is no way it could cost that much to cut and reweld something and started making our own sets. Now they are selling at half that price because people caught on. If you are left with one company supplying a product then that company can set any price. I would think if it the product was afforable then you would make more money from quantity alone.

We all agree the rear knuckles need to be modified to correct the geometry, but no one on this board can tell you what ride height they will be running tomorrow. To sale or make a product on what if's will be kind of a waste with out adjustability. I for one run my car super low with the arms facing the sky and still managed to drive the living hell out of my car. Im I going to correct this YES!!! Making a drop spindle would help correct most of the problem.

Jonnie I was under the impression PBM - PSM were the same company?

That ^, basically move the rlca mounts on my s13 subframe to match that of an s14.

I come from a mini trucker/air ride back ground. I've chopped my whole frame in half and welded it back together, I think I can handle a couple little mounting tabs. Also I just pretty much totaled the front of my car and I'm in the process of replacing most everything in front of the firewall. I'd post pictures, but I don't want to clutter the thread.

Also I don't care about any rules, I just like to work on stuff. Then see if it had any improvements.

If you're going to copy a subframe you might as well copy the S15 subframe, since it's better then the S14 one. I honestly am not sure what makes it better, or even what the differences are between the S13 and S14 rear subframes.

the s14 and s15 subframes are identical, to the exception of the fact that the s15 subframes are better/more braced. That is all.

Correct...They are the same. Sorry, my thought is S13 sub frame vrs S14 sub frame how much higher are the pivot points. The PSM inserts move the subframe up approx .5" how much higher would you want to move it?
If you look at the PSM rear subframe they moved theirs up a bit, I would say like 2" judging by the pics.

Called Ben over at driftworks. Here's more info passed down:
- the rear spindles do not keep exact stock geometry, but keeps the geometry as close as stock as possible to retain dynamic alignment settings from factory.
- the diameter of the pivot bushings are not the same as stock. This was due to the design changes required to develop the knuckle so no more usage of Def's spherical bearings.
- the front spindle's kingpin angle has changed.
- z32 rear e-brake will be a OK.

Eh so never mind def's sphericals all together then..

so did he say if theyll offer a spherical option?

What about the front i am still confused about the whole extra steering angle ordeal, I dont wana drift thatll be a problem when tracking the car lol... well in grip not drift.

They're being a bit slow to respond with all the questions they should have an faq :-/

Nope. No spherical options as they thought a large portion of the folks wouldn't want them. I forgot to ask about ackerman for the front spindles... I'll ask whenever they get back to me via email... but like you said... they're pretty damn slow or maybe our emails aren't getting through to their firewall.

It could ruin your day on the track. Too much turn in grip isn't good. Because it's so easy to turn just a couple degrees over and the next thing is you are ice skating in a turn.

Are you referring to the nature of modifying the roll center so much that it suddenly overloads the tire causing abrupt under and/or oversteer? I noticed that when I added 35mm of adjustment on my gp sports knuckles... Tires did not like it one bit during turn in. Sudden understeer.

I'm sorry, I was thinking of someone CNCing aluminum drop spindles. Clearly this would cost more than making a jig and welding steel plates together.

Yes, you can modify the S13 subframe to be like a S14 subframe. It's completely safe. What this does is change the squat. The S14 subframe has more squat because of the flatter angle of the LCA. You can actually just modify the S13 subframe, no need to buy an S14 one. However, it may not meet tech in some racing classes.

This is what Parts Shop MAX did on their S13. It's the orange subframe in the first post. They actually moved their pivot points farther up, giving a lot of squat and traction.

Parts Shop MAX and SPL both make great subframe bushings. SPL's can either be set to stock, or made to raise the subframe like the PSM ones do.

For those that don't understand, If you project a line from your top pillowball through to the bottom balljoint, then measure the angle between that line and true vertical. That's your kingpin inclination. Driftworks did this because it helps keep your wheel upright with extreme angles.



On anther subject, the Parts Shop MAX spindle is supposed to be 100% Machined. This means it would be fairly easy to make an aluminum one. There's the aluminum/spherical combo you've been looking for. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but Here's what Dan said:

Well that's what I think I'll do then, seems easier to me than with everything else. I'll be ordering either the PSM or SPL subframe bushings soon, as well as the coilover sleeves for the z32 knuckles.

Now can someone post up a few good pictures of the s14 rlca subframe mounts so I can copy them on my s13 subframe? I tried lookin on google images but wasnt getting anything worth a damn.

If you make it a one piece unit, it would be very difficult to machine since it
would most likely require a 5 or 7 axis machine to make them.
I think a modular assembly similar to the griggs one for mustangs is the way to go.
One piece to locate the strut and hub
one piece to locate the brake caliper.
One piece to locate the LCA balljoint and tie rod.

Machining it as a three parts assembly makes it a whole lot easier and would
bring the cost down significantly.
There is also a great deal of freedom in the design:
You need more (or less) roll center correction? Easy, just unbolt the lower part and bolt in a new one.
You want to run Evo, STi or whatever brake caliper without adapter brackets. Sure, just unbolt the stock piece and put a new one.

Best solution I have heard is this:
A set of solid aluminum bushings that raises the subframe,
allows to install S14 subframes into S13
and enhances the geometry, ie: maybe adds some caster, fixes the z32 upright shock binding issue in S14s, etc.


So machined steel parts but still welded on a jig?
My concern about doing it this way with aluminum is that it's difficult to get
good penetration and retain strength with aluminum.
It would require a lot of heat to get good welds and aluminum tends to distort at high temperatures.

Here you go (S15). You can see that the front mounts are lower:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ubframeS15.jpg

I wasn't even thinking of this. Definitely would be the way to go.

Ah, this makes more sense.

ManoNegra hit it on the head. Making something for mass production that will work for everyone would require what he stated. It would allow the nissan community to have something it has never had.

IE.

http://www.performanceautosport.com/...2043%20800.jpg

http://www.griggsracing.com/images/S197SPINDLE.jpg

The advantage of this would be people could buy a knuckle that was aluminum, strong, and adjustable to what ever angle, ackerman, and roll center you wanted. Beleive me that this picture has been in my head for about 6 months now. I dont have access full time to a machine shop, but if I did this would be the first thing i would make.

This griggs front spindle set up it offered to the mustang road racers at a prices of $2999.95. Way more than the 240 owner would ever pay. Why can griggs do this? Well they have patents pending on that desing and are the only ones as far as i know that make something like this for the stang. I passed something like this thru stephen "95ka-turbo's head and my idea was to try to figure a way to have a 6160 billet aluminum boltable tierod piece that we could all use. This will solve bumpsteer issues and have multiple pre lenght outer tierod mounting points for "X" angle.
http://www.bradscustomauto.com/catal...gs/MDS4000.jpg

To clarify, a well designed set of solid subframe bushings could possibly correct the problem with Z32 upright/S14 subframe binding that traditionally occurs by altering the location of the subframe.
But only by doing some R&D can we know for certain.

^SPL just released offset subframe bushings!

FYI you can fit S14/S15 subframe now into S13:

http://www.splparts.com/main4/parts/...PLSSBS13_C.jpg

outstanding!!!!! spl has always been in the fore front of development. Now someone link Kuah to this thread, so they can start making something.

Caster has a huge affect on the rear suspension. Changing the rear traction rods length greatly affects the camber curve in the rear.

The reason Z32 uprights fit like shit in an S14 is because the shot is alot longer and run at a different angle from the uppeer mount. Z32 and S13 shocks are almost the same length. Changing subframes dosnt really do anything in relation to how the shock mounts.

:facepalm: Deleted that post. Don't know what I was thinking.

I'm thinking about doing some serious editing to the first posts to include more technical information on the front and rear suspension.

Again, thanks to everyone who is contributing, I think we have some awesome stuff going on here, and I'm definitely enjoying the learning!

I PMed Kuah the link to this thread.

Some more Driftwork info:
- installation is bolt on affair.
- knuckles are ensured to be very, very strong (I asked cause I wanted to use these on the road)
- offset spacers will be available end of January, 2010
- knuckles were designed with road racing geometry in mind. I understood this as the camber, toe, etc gains/losses remain as OEM as possible
- for road racing usage without the spacers are recommended, drift use the spacers.
- if using them for road racing purposes without the offset spacer, usage of a stock length tie road (inner and outer) maybe not be long enough. Brands such as SPL Parts/Kazama would be preferred.
- the knuckles are currently available.
- ... will post up more as I come across it.

With that said, anyone interested in a set of GP Sport Hyper Knuckles with 20mm spacer adjustments so I can try the Driftworks knuckles out? LMK :)

thread subscribed and bookmarked

So I've just got to ask. Why is everybody wanting geometry to "be like stock?"

The bumpsteer isn't bad in the rear when you lower the car, and there are a couple of ways to get the roll center back up to a reasonable height. Besides, stock geometry via a heavily revised drop spindle with a severely lowered car will probably put the roll center ABOVE the CG - which is something you don't want.

Just wanting to know if there's any real justification behind this other than "I guess stock must be the best."

No, i meant that when you are at certain speed and turning angle going into a corner, that the grip stops gripping, then you are ice skating straight into the gravel. So too much turning angle would not be good, unless you are a pro and can control your reflexes.

That's a good point. Definitely don't want the roll center to be above the CG. I'm personally still bouncing the idea of using driftwork spindles in my head. Without the knowledge of where the true CG is or the RC is then it's pointless to purchase these units. I'll try to get get some measurements done this week to get a general height/location of the roll center this weekend.

In my experience, when I had about 50mm of front adjustment, the roll center was most likely to be TOO high. At the time I was running an 18" wheel with a 265/35 tires on there and I was get SUDDEN understeer during turn in. I remain a bit skeptical of how much roll center adjustment is needed, but the other side of me tells me there's only one way to find out. But of course there's a few steps to get to check whether or not it's needed.

Oh gotcha. Currently, as my car gets closer to the limit the fronts initially scream which is safer rather than have the rear slide out first. At that point it's nice to have adjustable sway bars to tweak and tune the rotation of the car to prevent front from washing out.

Original post edited. Let me know if I missed something or said something wrong.

Haha no worries, if you get the S13 and S14 FSM's go into the body section and it will give you measurements for the chassis itself and I think it might cover the subframes but I cant remember. That kinda helps in relation to over geometry for the chassis and suspension.

I know from experience about the S14/Z32 set up because its on my car right now. I kinda regret doing it and sadly I tossed my stock uprights. For an S14 its not really worth the effort unless you can cut the shock mount off and relocate it so it dosnt sit at such a terrible angle. I've already torn my Nismo shock bushing. Spherical bearing would help some but the mounting bracket for the coil-over actually hits the upright and there isnt much you can do about it.

So I suggest to people with S14's to not do Z32 uprights unless you want to figure out how to re-work the mounts.

You just need some slight clearancing of the shock mount on the upright with spherical bearings to keep from getting contact from what I hear.

With any type of rubber bushing thats pretty much out of the question, I had to grind down part of my shock mount and the coilover bracket to get it to where it wouldnt hit. Also the lower the car is the worse the angle gets.

I was hoping the Sphericals would make the difference. But I'm not going to find out first hand because there a better solution. KW V3's

On a new note, Is there any measurements that would be a good idea to take when I shave my subframe bushings? I plan on bring the subframe pretty much directly to the frame with maybe a 1/16" shim. I also plan on making a few shims in difference sizes so I can raise and lower the subframe up to 1/2 like the SPL kit.

^^ The sphericals will not solve the problem. I was running the spl sphericals in the z32 knuckles on my s14 and they would still bind under compression. They actually bent the mounts on the bottom of the coilovers and caused one of the shocks to blow. My car handled so much better after getting rid of the z32 knuckles and eliminating the bind.

I just installed a set of these on a buddies car and the z32 rear to shock mount is horrible. It does weight a ton less!!!!!

Basically the bottom line benefit of running z32 spindle IS weight loss and that's 8lbs PER corner. Which is frickin awesome. Imagine people bickering about wheels weighing 1lb up and down... put that into perspective.

Yeah, when I get the car moving I am going to get the rear shock mount cut and welded so it will be at the right angle when I get the toe arm mount corrected.

They need a smaller diameter misalignment bushing, and then some clearancing on the spindle.

You save a little over 6 lbs per side going with Z32 rear spindles over stock iron ones.

i believe when i had it on scale it was 8lbs.. but whatever 6-8... either way incredible unsprung savings !

Wheels create centrifical inertia, 1lb extra rotating is alot different than 1lb going up and down a few inch's. So saveing 1lb per wheel is a huge gain. It affects the suspension movement, gearing, braking and turning. Which is alot more to consider.

So put that into perspective.

And I restate that if you have an S14 its not worth the aggervation to run Z32 uprights. I plan on switching back to stock uprights as soon as I can find some.

I saw about 6.7 lbs, but yea, it's quite a bit when you multiply that by two.

Unsprung weight is unsprung weight. Yea, it might not rotate, but it's pretty damn big.

I'd rather spend the money on shocks that work then uprights that dont.

KW V3's have changed my mind about how I want my suspension set up. And you cant run them with Z32 uprights.

So basically is it going to present the same problem on an s13 that has an s14 subframe and z32 spindle?

It shouldn't. The Z32 and S13 have the same shock length, so the angle is essentially the same between the Z32 and S13(at least from what I've read). Adding the subframe will only shorten the travel length(if you use the bushings to set the subframe against the chassis)

The S14 shocks are longer and that's what creates the slight binding......

What steve said. Though I said the exact same thing on the last page.

I'll take a picture tomarrow and post it to show you just how bad it is. The lower you go the worse it gets.

S14s have a weird angle with Z32 spindles due to position of the top shock mounting. An S13/Z32 are roughly the same with shock mounting, and changing the subframe from S13 to S14 doesn't affect this at all.

In short - it's fine. I run Z32 spindles with an S14 rear subframe in an S13 and the misalignment is almost zero.

Oooh okay, so its about the strut tower placing... interesting. Well that clears that up. Thanks for sharing that.

Hmm... does the position of the shock have any other effects? Anyone ever wonder that (if at all). Like in the front moving the shock mount backwards would be like running positive caster.. just a random thought that befell me now that you mention that... or whichever way the shock is mounted for that matter.

ok so i had a chance to modify some corolla knuckles!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...6/knuckle4.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...6/knuckle2.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...6/knuckle5.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...6/knuckle3.jpg

these were a test set we made. boxed lower control arms, and cut stock p/s knuckles. we didnt go to crazy short, but by the way they came out they should provide good angle!

also we did measure both sides and made them equal, and we heated the knuckles red hot, beveled the 2 pieces and fully welded it. Had a Professional welder do the work!

The knuckles dont need to be red hot. They should be heated to about 400* and then you can start welding. So I was told. Look good.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2731/...c93a428a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2736/...0ccfefec_b.jpg

Driver Steve angerman when he was running my knuckles.
http://www.wreckedmagazine.com/image...sue11cover.jpg

Rear caster is controlled mostly by the traction arm (thats why it points forward). As far as I can tell its the only arm that will allow for any sort of forward/backward adjustment.

The reason why the front shock can change castor angle is because its bolted to the entire top of the upright with only the LCA and Tie rod for other attactment locations. So when you move the top of the shock forwards/backwards it moves the entire upright forwards or backwards with it.

The rear upright is a 5 link set up and has 4 arms bolted to it along with the shock, so changing the position of the top mount wont do very much especially since its on the bottom and towards the back. Thats why the top of the rear shocks just piviot in place using a spherical bearing instead of running a camber plate.

so true, cause i know i don't have the skill. but then again do you want to learn how to play basketball with a flat basketball or a basketball that's inflated... but then you can always argue that you can learn how to play with a worn out inflated basketball oh well i guess my point fails haha.

Good post.

The last picture is one I took of my car a couple years ago. I still had FNs, stock uprights and stock rear brakes back then, heh.

I have the SPL FLCAs and RLCAs. They were never fully set up; I had an idea of what I was doing but never measured all the pickups for optimum setup. Now they're all worn out and feel wiggly.

In my opinion, as someone who has run on them, they're OK. They require some initial modification to fit (mostly clearancing holes for tension rod studs and end link brackets) and are relatively cheaply made.

My gripe with nearly everything available in the aftermarket is that they use crappy spherical bearings and rod ends. These arms are no exception; while the bearings are good for a while, all it takes is a few thousand miles and they're toast. I understand that the parts are manufactured for racing purposes and really aren't meant for daily driving use (I think I have about 15k or so on mine), but just by looking at the housing you can tell the bearings are junk. To be fair, if SPL had them made they'd actually be worth a damn.

Can I outdrive these parts? No, but they give me a level of adjustability (should I choose to use it :wtc:) and purpose that's hard to argue with. The clarity of the chassis' intent is why I installed them... the car telegraphs what it likes and doesn't like so much better without any play.

Damn youse guys, now I want to go play with the Nissan even though I have a broken BMW and a Miata with an exhaust manifold leak. Maybe I should just say "fuck politics, I'm picking up Chassis Engineering again."

I've been out of the game for so long, I don't know where to pick up again. The car just sits in the parking lot at work and gets driven maybe 20 miles every two weeks, but life finally caught up with the bank account and I can't spend what's necessary on the car.

Strange, I thought SPL uses QA1 rod ends? Maybe not on their lower arms?

Also, Kuah PMed me and said that he's thinking about putting some serious R&D into drop knuckles, because there is so much interest (aka this thread).

I was under the impression the SPL LCAs were just rebranded 'JDM' pieces, much like their version 1 arms were. I cannot find the link to the Japanese page that uses the same picture.

I know all of the new version arms from SPL are completely done in house. I am sure the sale of the LCAs has not been as good as the basic alignment arms so I wouldn't be surprised - nor would I blame Kuah for not doing his own version of them.

All of SPL's own parts are the business. High quality throughout, and they use very nice QA1 rod ends that have lasted quite a long time (and have been very precise) on a "street" car. That's why I said "if SPL had them made, they'd actually be worth a damn."

Kuah and the team are committed to producing quality products, and I support them 100%. They've been nothing but an asset to the community; without them I wouldn't be where I am today, mod-wise.

Some of the stuff they import and sell, though, doesn't have the same thought and quality they put toward their own parts. It's a shame, but at the same time high quality adjustable LCAs are expensive to develop and R&D, so I cannot blame them. There are only a few people who see the point in spending huge amounts of money on control arms.

Kuah has corrected me on this before, and I think I've got it right that the LCAs they sell are Nams.

Ah, that makes sense. Well maybe with all this renewed interest in the good stuff, he'll develop something new.

PSM is also supposed to be developing their own lower control arms eventually.

its about time spl came up with their own solution to these things other than the NAMS arms which imo are way too overpriced like wth

I wonder how hard it'd be to make drop spindles like these:

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...20uprights.JPG

These are made by LG Motorsports for C5 vettes. I think with enough practice on my Milling machine I could make something like that. I might give it a go over summer when I have more time. Not saying they'd be perfect but I think I could make something that works well enough.

Do it :)

Actually I was just looking at drop spindles from some race site yesterday I think it was for DSMs... they were making many applications... what a fool... i forgot to bookmark it... i should still have it in my history on the computer at work. I am sure if there was enough interest we could have some made by a variety of people.

I really think SPL should jump on this... it would make s chassis cars one step up for sure... plus z32 would benefit and a number of other nissan/inifiniti cars.

I'd like to see some one make them as well. I need to track down some front uprights so I can take measurements. Might make a trip out to the junk yard this weekend.

Time to brush up on my solidworks as well.