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the brake swap thread
Alright, looking to get a collection of all the popular "brake swaps" for the s-chassis. A place where everyone can comment on how certain swaps feel and for what power levels the brakes are good for. This is for all swaps, either from other cars, or aftermarket (willwood) calipers with hardware/rotor setups that work. Also including front/rear balanced setups and pictures to show wheel clearance (and for those of us who like that minimal caliper>wheel clearance). i did a search, but all the information is spread out, i thought it would be nice to have it all in one place.
First off, lets get technical and describe how a brake system works, and get a basis for upgrading. For those in for a read: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/Win...principle.html This is how our brake system works, and how we must look at upgrading it. The brake pedal/brake booster offers a leverage advantage of force on the master cylinder. With this, and the principles of hydraulic fluids, we are able to put tremendous forces on the brake pads. Simply put, the larger the caliper pistons, the more force you can output on the pads (given the same size master cylinder). With the same point, the larger a master cylinder bore, the greater input force is required to have the same output. It is generally recommended to go to a larger master cylinder if you upgrade the brakes, to get rid of that "soft" feeling in the pedal. Master Cylinder Options: stock bmc bore is 15/16". 1. Z32: so far the only BMC I know that is direct replacement. Either 1" or 1 1/16" bore. 1. Z32/skyline gtst brakes -front calipers: bolt on -rear calipers: bolt on -z32 rotors/pads (26 or 30mm depending on caliper in the front). have 5 lug or redrill to 4 lug if needed -brake lines: lots of variations of swap brake lines are available online special notes: z33 track rotors can be used in front with an adapter plate, z32 2+2 ebrake lines supposedly reach stock location with rerouting, can also use extensions found on ebay or make some yourself like this: http://t3.gstatic.com/imagesq=tbn:AN...qRRLU0eUzPuqig 2. Evo/sti brembo brakes Front: 04 STi Brembo calipers / Evo rotors Rear: 04 STi Brembo calipers / Evo rotors Brake lines: Brembo brake lines for STi Brembos notes: rear caliper/ebrake. brembo calipers on your z32 setup: #/f/tech-talk/93748-...ml#post1342840 note about sti rears: #/f/tech-talk/93748-...ml#post2057367 front calipers need adapter bracket: http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3...ture0588ln.jpg http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3...racket1fs0.jpg mounted picture (17" wheel) http://www.driftclub-il.com/johnc/Ni...s/brakes11.jpg 3. sentra se-r vspec brembo fronts -work well with z32 rear -bolt right up to front -sentra rotors redrilled anyone with different brake setups, post what you got, pics, how it feels. lets try to keep the general chat to a min and post up brake setups! |
Since when has it been required to use Z32/GTST rear knuckles for rear Z32 calipers on a S13/14?
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i was under the impression they were, as when i was new to s-chassis thats what everyone told me. did some googling, fixed the error. thanks atutt
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Q45 fronts, S13 rear. Direct bolt on, uses S13/S14 brake lines. Stock BMC can be used.
Redrill to 4 lug if needed. |
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#/f/archive-faqs/291...-calipers.html |
^ I don't see how upgrading to a bigger rotor increases braking ability. The only thing I can think of is quicker heat dissipation. The caliper stays the same (weak single piston, that continues to do the same thing, being weak. ) the only way you can make it better is with a good pad compound, and that's the limit of that set up. Looks like a waste of time to me. The dual z32 rear piston caliper will do a far better job even on a tiny rotor.
P.S. I am not a expert on brakes. Just saying whats on my mind =P |
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I did read it. Which is why I said it looks like a pointless upgrade no matter how cheap it costs. You're better off sticking with the stock rotor and upgraded pads.
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I did the altima rear rotors with z31 carrier and stock rear calipers, i didn't do it to improve braking, just did it cause stock rotors look tiny inside 18's...
i had a z31 carrier on a parts car lying around and i needed new rotors anyways... it probably ain't worth it to go out of the way to do it. ...moral of the story, save up for mustang rotors and dual z32 calipers. |
besides the fact that larger rotors = better heat dissipation (if both are the same type, ie. vented, solid etc.) and all the frictional/physics stuff like that, a larger rotor will give you more leverage on the hub to slow the wheel down.
think like a lever, the further from the pivot the easier it is to lift/move a load. now apply this to the wheel. the pivot is the hub with the tread on the tire being the "handle" of the lever. it puts tremendous stress on any brakes, but with a larger rotor, that force is reduced allowing it to stop easier. now of course this only applies to situations that maintain identical pad contact areas. the best part of bigger rotors is you can use bigger pads, increasing contact area and greatly improving braking |
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By increasing the master cylinder diameter, while lessening pedal travel, the amount of force needed to create the same amount of force in the brake calipers increases. So increasing the bmc size should only be done in proportion to the increase in total caliper piston diameter. |
your right, i was thinking about it backwards. its been a while since i've gone over the calculations. good eye, not trying to spread false information
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After a little investigation,
Ive read that the SE-R SpecV Brembos use a 300x22mm disc rotor. Now Ive searched and have seen that the R33 GTR Brembos rear AND 03-05 Evo's rear use the same size rotor. Now would I be able to use those rotors on the SE-R calipers in the front in an S14? Im guessing yes? |
you have to look at hat offset as well, which is generally different between a front/rear rotor. im pretty sure the evos use a drum ebrake too which is going to mean they are deeper to the hub mounting point. easiest/best way would probably just have some sentra rotors redrilled but who knows the rears might work! i'm not familiar with the r33 brembo rear setup either, but i could see it being drum e-brake like the r32
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cheaper option to buying the full front wilwood big brake kit:
1. wilwood forged superlite internal 4 piston calipers: Wilwood High-Performance Disc Brakes - Forged Superlite Internal Calipers 2. z33 track rotors + adapter bracket (make your own, or can find online). after some research, the z33 rotors are 12.76" diameter, and 1.18" thick. this would mean you want one of the calipers that has a rotor max thickness of 1.25 in the link above. the only other decision needing to be made is what you want your overall piston area to be. install guide (from willwood): http://www.wilwood.com/Pdf/howtostor...ke_Install.pdf brake lines: p/n 220-9199 from willwood. http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/Line...temno=220-9199 or you could buy a 1/8-27 npt fitting to -3 adapter and use any brake line you wish that corresponds these pics belong to WISH ONE and i hope he doesnt mind me sharing: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...h/IMG_4879.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...h/IMG_4876.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...h/28ae19c6.jpg |
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What about lines? |
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will be updating with more technical things in the near future |
I LOVE my current setup. It feels very balanced.
Front Calipers - Q45 Rear Calipers - Stock S13 with Z31 bracket with 2003 Altima rear rotors. Master cylinder - Z31 TT |
mine, i love it
i dont really like my rear set up which is Sti + Z32 rotors, im thinking about a special order. IDC! lol dont mind the harness, i will be tucking it, and tubs! http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...066c0ef740.jpg IMG_3142 by d_2jzgte, on Flickr |
^^^sti brembos in the front right? what dont you like about the rears? feels unbiased? and what size is the wheel (im gonna guess 17")
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except what do you plan to do about the fact that rear R33 and Evo rotors are designed to house a e-brake assembly? or even if they did bolt on, what makes you think they've be the right offset to the caliper? |
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CodyAce knows what's up: http://www.codyace.com/albums/album4...all2.sized.jpg http://www.codyace.com/albums/album4...all1.sized.jpg |
^details? trying to get all the info in one place. also, that caliper doesnt look like its mounted in the stock caliper mounts...looks a bit low?
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Sti rear rotors are thicker than Z32's i want to get another S chassis just so i can slap on some project muahahahaha oh and that wilwood set up looks good |
This is purely to serve as a mild brake upgrade on my S14 until I decide to put more money into it. Currently have 2001 Q45 rotors and calipers up front with Hawk HPS pads, then out back I have the Z31 caliper bracket with 2003 Altima rear rotors and Hawk HPS pad in the stock S14 calipers. So far it's been good enough to take the 60-0 distance from 143 feet down to 119 feet.
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i'll be installing my wilwood superlite/z33 brembo setup this weekend, upgrading from a z32 setup. around spring i plan to upgrade to the 2 piece wilwood rotors also.
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also if you care to learn more about the nuances of the Evo/STi Brembo caliper swap search under my username I know I've posted a good deal of information on the swap |
i've actually read about that def/skullworks brake setup, but could never find any info. thanks mano!
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Why does no one at all have a Brembo BBK?
like an actual kit, not stealing calipers from another car |
Look at the price of a brembo GT kit, is it that big of a mystery?
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Where are some of you sourcing your Z31 rear brackets? I'm looking to head that direction someday.
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I always thought it was strange the z32tt uses 280x30mm front rotors and larger diameter 297x18mm on the rear. I believe I heard z32 owners upgrade only pads and the front rotors/calipers and leave the rears as is since they're pretty good factory spec?
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i can assure you that the people that DO need brakes that size, have them, and $4k wheels are the last of their worries Quote:
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I am def not going to be able to run BBK in my build,because of my wheel sizings. But for the motor I am running I do need good brakes... so I need a smaller but good quality option. |
Wilwood Grand Nationals, (covered with painters tape here to protect wheel and caliper in case it was tight, this was purely for test fitting.) on Z33 track rotors. Confirming that they wheel clear 16" DT-O5R wheels.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...97422766_n.jpg |
Has any one mentioned the cts-v brembo brakes upgrade?
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No good upgrades for the broke s13 folks ???
well w/e i went altima rotors on j30 breaks front = $30 and z31 rotors with bracket = $20 over all less then $80 after having the rotors machined. I<3junkyards ;) |
Posted the Grand National caliper last time, finally mounted the Forged Superlite Internal that I'll actually be running :) 1.38" pistons
http://carolinanissans.com/spotlight...1157616124.jpg |
My new setup, sti calipers w evox rotors fronts, rears i'm using 300zx tt.
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I know the thread says that the R33 GST calipers can take a Z33 track rotor, I have that set up on my S14, however there is a decient amount of the inside portion of the rotor that is not being used. This is very annoying because of the pad overhang and leaving all that braking power off the rotor. I am not sure if R33 spindles will do anything to bring the caliper down closer to the rotor ,or If I need to try to find a different adaptor bracket ? Any Ideas?
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I have the ArizonaZCar Wilwood 4POT, 12.2" front kit.
240SX Brakes I love the kit so far, Dave at ArizonaZCar provided great customer service and has great pricing as well. http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/y...IMG_1052-2.jpg http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/y...1/IMG_1053.jpg http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/y...1/IMG_1194.jpg |
Wonder why no one mentioned J30 brakes all around. They're very similar to the Q45 ones.
The piston diameter is the same as well as the rotor for both J30 & Q45 front calipers at least, not sure about the back. Pads are the same size execpt for the Y33 chassis which i believe are like .2 longer. J30 / Q45 Caliper Cylinder bore diameter 42.8mm (1.685") x 2 Pad Lining Length x Width X Thickness 127mm x 56mm x 9.5mm (5"x2.2"x.0374") |
Anyone running the PSM rear knuckles with z32 or any upgraded rear brakes?
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Kinda old thread, i know, but had anyone successfully mounted a vented rotor on a stock rear caliper with the internal mechanical ebrake? already did the altima rotor upgrade and now im looking to cool the rear down even more while retaining stock ebrake components
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In the event you are drifting, have you warped some rotors or something? I haven't heard much about guys running vented rotors on the rear or that there was HUGE advantage to doing so. |
This guy on my local forums did CTSV brakes in the front.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...40799809_n.jpg |
^That looks quite nice.
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so ive seen the altima rear setup and j30, but is there any other alternatives for an s13 rear caliper?
something i can run to the junkyard and pick up or a local auto store? |
Have any one ever installed Evo VIII/VI rear Brembo calipers on an S14? Any link or thread that could help? Thanks.
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http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5402/picture0193fm.jpg |
I'll play. Q45 brakes front and rear, S13. Brakes are off of a 97 Q45.
This shit is cake. The backs bolt right up. The fronts however need a little work. All you have to do is take a step drill bit and bore out the mounting holes in your spindle. Here's the rear. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8ba089d9.jpg And here's the front. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1a65565e.jpg Here's the difference in bore size. Bigger one on the left. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb41bee92.jpg All mounted up. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps78f21a75.jpg Pictures don't really do justice to how big these things really are. Haven't driven this car yet, but the car I have driven with this setup is awesome. Not as pretty as Z brakes or Brembos, but you can literally walk into a junkyard and get the full setup for less than 100 bucks. As for master cylinder, I'm using an s14 booster and master combo. I'll upgrade it if need be but I doubt I'll have issues since I'm running the front brakes with the pedal and a hydro to the rear. Hope this is helpful. |
What year Q45 did you use? I have put them on both of my S13s and never had to enlarge bolt holes, direct bolt on. The year info could be helpful for your post.
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Thats strange 90-96 should be a direct bolt on, only reason I ask is because that is a great write up and if someone came across it they should know its for say 97+ Q45s on a S13 etc.
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It could very well be for a newer set. I actually got the brakes with the car, that's why I'm unsure of the exact year. If you're saying you had to do zero modification to 90-96 brakes, I would go on and recant my statement that these are off of a 96 lol
I'll edit the post. |
anyone have a good writeup on q45 or gtst brakes? been trying to find a good one but seems like i always find half finished ones or not complete
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Its just like a normal caliper change with two extra steps, you have to drill your rotors if you are only 4lug, and you have to cut off or otherwise remove the dust shield.
KA24DEvelopment.com :: 240SX Brake Upgrades This one is for a S14 so change accordingly if you have 4lugs and if you don't run into the bolt length issue don't add spacers. Q45 Brake Swap (S14) : 240SX Technical Forum |
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any of you guys know of the 2006 M45 rotor with 26mm Z32 front calipers? :hide:
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I think I have decided to go with the Wilwood forged superlite 4 piston bbk on the front of my ls1 powered s14. Purpose of the car is street use, with a lot of autocross/ track use. Does anyone know what rear brakes would work well with this kit and result in a well balanced setup?
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R33 GTS-T Calipers
97-01 Q45 rotors Circuit sports z32 to s14/s13 conversion lines Z32 stoptech street pads All a direct swap, no drama on a s14. Awesome setup even with the shitty stock bmc. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8266/9...afb12493_c.jpg |
im surprised no one has mentioned the akebono z32 brakes
Z1 Motorsports 14" Akebono Big Brake Master Set (300zx) it is considered a big brake kit on the 300zx so it should be awesome on our cars. |
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I forgot about that kit. There was a whole thread on it. #/f/chat/471466-s14-...brake-kit.html |
Couple questions for you guys. If I wanted to fit better/larger/whatever rotors from a different car, what 'measurments' or specific characteristics do those rotors need to have to properly bolt up to 5 lug 240sx hubs? (Leave the caliper out of the picture for the time being.)
Second, there are plenty of decently priced used brembo BBK's on eBay all the time. Would custom brackets allow these to be mounted to a 240sx, or do they have certain characteristics that would make them never fit? Some nice ones I have found: 370z Brakes Cayenne Brakes Jaguar R Brakes Or these beauties if you've got the coin: AMG Brakes Obviously this is not something I know very much about, so hopefully someone can give me some insight. Before someone asks why I don't just do a Z32 or STI swap, I'd really like to try something a little more unique. PS I want the 370z ones bad EDIT: Another competent I was forgetting, wheels. I'm assuming they are the reason these kind of swaps aren't seen as much. Eventually I would want 17" TE's in the front, so I assume 17" wheels will severely limit brake options. |
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needs to just be 5x114.3 |
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4 Attachment(s)
Here's the brake upgrade for the front of my 93 300ZX. SRT8 Brembos with 370Z 14" drilled & slotted front rotors. I'm working on getting the money together to do my rear brake upgrade which consists of running 90 300ZX NA 26mm calipers and 370Z 14" drilled and slotted rear rotors. They will also retain the factory e-brake. Here's some pictures of the fronts.
Factory front brakes http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7664265b.jpg Comparison between the factory fronts and the SRT8 Brembos http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...psadf7ce6f.jpg Now the Brembos installed http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9e2a6042.jpg http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...psa2f22566.jpg |
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I shit myself laughing when i saw north carolina lol |
Yes. Because Wilwood is only for country bumpkins and California is the capital of the world and every thing is soooo much better there. . ? How's that local government working for ya out there? Sure as hell hope you're not a gun enthusiast living in the most communist state in the U.S., but lets get back on topic
I wonder what you do consider "legit" brakes? Q45? 300zx? Oh yeah, dem oem brake swaps are sooooooo baller (rolls eyes). Some other country bumpkins that use Wilwoods: Dai Yoshihara http://www.motormavens.com/emAlbum/a...-tire-copy.jpg Conrad Grunewald: http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Feat...99_LR6XT-L.jpg Fredric Aasbo: http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...akis-tC-10.jpg This 1,000 HP Lexus uses Wilwood brakes on all 4 corners. . . http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...LEXUS_4630.jpg http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...R_RX7_4176.jpg C's Garage of Japan: http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...4_3754_800.jpg Ryan Tuerk's Camaro: http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...7/tuerck06.jpg http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...7/tuerck20.jpg (Every drift boi's hero) Matt Powers S14: http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...2/LAR_5779.JPG http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte.../03/build6.jpg So what exaclty were you trying to say again? Only people from the middle of no where use Wilwoods? Eat a dick. http://img.pandawhale.com/post-20342...obs-g-jwfA.gif |
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Hey look a bunch of sponsored track cars that got wilwood brakes for free! You are mistaken if you aren't aware the same car built in different parts of the country are gonna come out different and end up with diff parts and looks. It's usually easy to see how a car i built if it was done in the west coast, Florida or the middle of no where like Connecticut. This is often dictated by ease of availability, price and also other parts awareness which usually isn't as much in say a place like Connecticut. For example a mainstream wheel like overly small but available rpf01 would be found in bfe while say someone on the west coast would be using a aggressive LMGT4 since it's easier to get for us and something even better. Obvious the legit brake kits are ones the likes of Brembo, Alcon, AP Racing Endless, Project Mu, and even stop tech. Nobody runs willwood cause they think it's number one. They do cause the price. West Coast(real deal wheels and legit aftermarket bbk) http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...67_49_full.jpg East Coast(faking the funk) http://g35driver.com/forums/attachme...e-img_4432.jpg |
What our smart friend is trying to say is that when he hard parks, AP racing calipers will look cooler in front of his friends than wilwoods.
(Im about to switch from z32 to wilwood in the front) |
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http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/u...4268_thumb.jpg |
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And you're saying sponsored drift teams are all broke and cheap out by getting Wilwood brakes? If they were broke they would just swap OEM brakes like you're claiming is so cool. I love it man, I love your logic! Keep it up. |
I'm not sure where you get this logic where I prefer OEM brakes over failwood. I prefer real brakes like brembo, project mu, endless over that any day of the week.
What I'm saying is sponsored teams will take any type of free stuff even if they aren't broke. How to you explain teams running wilwood brakes, rota wheels, Varrstoen wheels, Maxis Tires, Megan Racing, Ksport, Mishimoto and so forth. |
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I think I am all squared away, though. I'm going to run the bracket to utilize Z33 track rotors, and I think I know what size pistons I need for the calipers, and the part number for the lines. I will definitely keep you in mind if anything comes up, thanks for that. As far as this whole calling Wilwoods "crap" thing, I see plenty of people running them that drive their cars hard, and they do just fine. Also, the Wilwoods are pretty cheap as far as calipers go, light, and pads are both cheaper and thicker. That right there did the trick for me... |
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Not to rag on you, but my point exactly. ^^^(TE37s post)
Look at all the cars that run stuff like Wilwoods, and cars such as the one posted above. Chances are those cars that see the road course every weekend with their "redneck" brakes see more brake use in that one day than the ones with the "cool" brakes will see in their whole life. |
Now back to our regularly scheduled program
I'm looking to get the sti. Brembo for all four corners I already have the bracket purchase lined up for when I do I read the back sti bolts right up But what rotors and or make would you use? The same for the front? I found a few calipers and rotors for all four corners But the rotors are stock and look like junk so I would Rather just get the calipers Sorry if im asking something that has already been answered Right now for a set of four sti ver7 Brembo calipers $1049 eBay Thanks in advance Pms are welcomed |
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