KA24DE Performance
 

Okay i'm building my ka to be all motor dd you know bolt ons and some head work i'm looking for quailty parts and i'm not finding to much support for the ka i would really apperciate some help.

na ka's are expansive to build and pretty much worthless. just do a stock sr style turbo setup. t25 370cc side mount etc.

i'm looking to reach 200 to 210hp to the wheels thats all i really need for a dd

200-210 at the wheels is gonna be pretty expensive for a KA...

Im building a NA KA and Im hoping for about 190 at the wheels. Forged high comp pistons, ($800 or so), dual exhaust cams, (cost me taco bell), fully rebuilt head and block, block will be be bored .030 over, new valves and springs (a couple hundred for all).

So total Ill be in about just over a grand for parts only, Im doing the block and head work myself so if you have that done thats at least another few hundred for that if you dont have access to machining equipment. Plus fuel management, ECU tuning etc. etc...

After that, Im hoping for 190-195 at the wheels. For over 200 expect to be looking ITB's, full standalone, and some where in the 3k range for around 200 whp.

It can be done, but turbo is gonna be alot cheaper and you can hit 250whp pretty easily...

EDIT: Also, search the forums a bit, this has been covered quite a bit. NA+KA= $$$$$ x pain-in-the-ass

u can't get 200rwhp on a KA that's going to be DD'd

The dude with the green zenki (RBsomething was his name) had ITB's and a standalone fuel management system and i don't think he got to 200 w/o a bitch load of work

get an SR or buy a different car

210whp and you wanna DD it? You're talking about a KA24DE, not a K24... Ain't happening.

Intake + 3inch exhaust + header + dual exhaust cams + light flywheel + aluminum driveshaft + light wheels = more than enough to have fun with a KA on a day to day basis.

You ain't gonna do 200whp without a lot of work and money. For a DD, I would suggest a few bolt-ons and thats it but don't expect big gains.

Like i said just do a t25 turbo set up. You will get 205-210 whp and it will be a reliable dd aslong as you have a good tune.

okay then so 200 is to much for a ka what are some reallistic numbers i can be seeing with bolt ons and high comp

wow hondas can reach 200hp on 1.6 liters and be a dd why cant we with 2.4 liters and a ass load of work is it because of a poor flowing head thats so wrong to me or is it because of low comp

that what you get for a truck motor...

Poor head design, poor electronics, and a half balanced crankshaft. Thats why.

^^ What he said...

With every bolt on possible, Im thinking youre looking at about 150-160ish... Add to that some light wieght shiz (wheels, flywheel, 1-piece driveshaft, etc etc) you will have plenty of pick up to fool around with on a day-to-day basis.

Once you bring "high comp" into the mix, thats when it gets really pricey. Fuel management, ECU, tuning, and gas alone are just askin for lots of dollas lol

Sorry homie, not true. Its about just as hard. Hondas B18c1 GSR motor will barely make 200 with I/H/E/C, ~180 or 190. All that together with a tune is hitting 3k for a motor thats going to be a pain Dding. So 1.6 cant even touch that, not to mention MOST 1.6s are SOHC. If we were talking about 2.0+ K series thatd be a different story. But since were in nissan well go back to that...

Half balanced crankshaft eh? Why does a big motor have to be built so poorly.? Truck motors should be torquey!:rant:

Its not a truck motor. It was built from the ground up by Nissan of Japan and first appeared in the 240SX as the KA24E in 1988 as a 1989 with, "9.1:1 compression ratio, outputting approximately 150 hp" - Basics > Engine > KA24E - Nissan 240SX Performance Tuning

It didn't appear in a truck until 1990 as the KA24E in the Nissan D21 pickup hardbody. Before that they used the Z24 engine. The KA engines that came in the Altimas and pickups were all made in the U.S.A. until 2001. They have different flow and headwork done to them. In which case the 240SX(only offered in the U.S.A.)was given the "performance" N/A engine. Similiar output on the scale but better flow, overall.


o.o oh yeah. Its tough to get 200whp out of KA either way. for as much money as you're putting into the NA r00t, you might as well just do alittle headwork and put a turbo on the car and run it at like 7psi for 2 months then bump it to 10psi.

If the KA is a truck motor, the SR is a minivan motor...
Nissan Liberty
Nissan Serena

Look them up.

the sr may be a minivan motor but i assure you that the sr20det is not. That would be one hell of a minivan.

Here we go again, the famous ka-sr battle...

I thought this was discuss and done by now...

Please close this thread, it becomes annoying...:lockd:

My buddy who has raced in multiple drift events and worked for Full Race, actually just droped a ka-t in his car a few months ago. He has raced SR's for years and he really likes his KA. alot of torque and hardly any turbo lag. It is making around 300hp to the wheels with mostly stock internals and a fat turbo.

I say get yourself a big turbo, some injectors, a fmic, a good management system, and have it tuned and you should be good to go.

okay now my my other car its a ka24e i have a sound similar to the timing chain but i can see the lower pulley shake back and forth like a mofo could that just be my eyes and actually be just the chain

...I said look them up. Both had the sr20det

One hell of a minivan? The sr gets 200 at the crank stock...thats not much.

Not going to happen...especially with a dd. It's been tried and done to death and most of those who tried gave up and or became broke in the process.

Why are you so adamant about defending the KA24? Let’s face it; it’s simply not a high performance motor. Why would people even waste their time with SR if they didn't offer some sort of a benefit? Ok, so there are some yuppies who throw SR's in their cars just to say they have one, but overall it is simply a better motor, with more options performance wise.

Let’s just say that both motors performed equally the same, the fact that the KA24de weighs more than the vq35de would normally kill the deal for me.

for those of you who are not familiar with engine model #'s the VQ35DE was used in the 350z, it is a V6 and pushed 300hp. Line that up with the Inline 4 @ 150hp KA24DE in the 240sx and maybe you will get my point.

Ka24de- 150hp- 388Lbs
Vq35de- 300hp- 330lbs

you know what really sucks though? for those of you that love your light little aluminum block SR's, well its not very light afterall. its only 3lbs lighter than the ka.

ha ha, you weren’t expecting that where you!

Well now your comparing apples to oranges. The Vq35 is in a different league, both design wise and DISPLACEMENT wise.
Also, it comes in a $30K car and first hit the streets (of japan) in 2000 compared to the sr20det which came in a max $20K car and first hit the streets in 1989.

Yeah but once you add all the piping and turbo accessories the difference will increase alot more.

If u want to increase your horsepower do everything that they have been telling u, but i do have to disagree about the popularity on the ka24de they are strong motors if u take care of them. I'm doing the exact same thing as u as in building the stock ka, but u should also put on 3in exhaust with down pipe and test pipe. If u do turbo charge it i recommend buying zex spark plugs they make a big difference, along with a msd blaster coil and a igniter chip believe me everything makes a difference!

You''ll be much happier with a T25 set up bro. You can build an efficient one relatively inexpensive too. I feel you though, I like you originally wanted to go NA but your goals aren't sensible with these engines.



?





Are you saying their heads are better design wise?

If you want to get over 200 WHP N/A you'll need the following parts

- Injen Cold air intake
$200
- OBX 4-1 header
$150
- Exhaust + highflow cat
$400
- Brian Crower stage 2 cams
$350
- N60 MAF (from Maxima)
$40
- Fidanza lightweight flywheel
$300
- Decently built s14 head
$500
- A/F controller
$250
- ka24e pistons
$200
- Iridium sparkplugs + good wires
$60
- sr20 370cc fuel injectors
$300
- z32 fuel pump
$75
- Aluminum Drive Shaft
$ 300

That's $3,125 excluding labor and Port matching/Polishing.



With all those components, high octane fuel and a great tune - you should easily break 200whp. You might even be as high as 225 whp. The problem is, extracting the HP from the KA without FI is a pain in the ass. It requires a lot of money on parts. It requires a lot of time (or money) on finding the perfect tune. Then you need to basically run race gas so that your engine doesn't detonate with such high-compression and advanced timing. N/A KA is not a DD once you begin raising compression and extreme tuning...

if you only want 2 and change to the wheels and have it NA. just drop an LT1 or LS1 in there and call it a day.

Boost!!!:naughtyd:

I like the info charles gave thanks man and i am sticking with an na/ka and already have an intake, 3" cat-back, test pipe, spark plugs + wires, stage two clutch act, and flywheel i just need the other stuff and is obx a good header i've heard other wise

cant argue that fact eitehr 9 psi made 311 whp and 279 wtq here

You only listed two things that don't transfer over to turbo cars. Why do people even ask for advice when they don't want to listen to it? Save your money and go turbo, or sell your NA parts later for 1/4 of what you paid when your car is still slow and you realize turbo was a better option.

buddy is making 165whp on his ka..

for the amount of work he's put into it.. not sure if it's really worth it.

talked to him today said he probably put 1k into it :|

More info on your setup, please. lol

There's some guys on KA-T.org making 330+whp at 10 psi, but they don't like to give specifics about their specs. :mepoke:

Yeah, not worth it at all. I could EASILY put together a turbo kit good for 200+ whp for about a grand.

N/A is cool... but not for KA's. Too much money and effort for too little payoff.

Oops, double post.

lol roomie just dyno'd 140 whp on a once cam slam (KA24E) w/ a few bolt ons. ZOMG advanced timing, egr and pcv delete, a/c deleted, power steering delete, electric fan, gutted cat and a little grinding of the intake mani at his pops garage.

lol my motor came from one of the member on there. but it had a blown head gasket and i have reworked a few things since then.

enthalpy tune.
msd 6a
msd 8207 blaster coil.
9:5:1 aries pistons
248 91 ka24de cams
D/W 750cc side feed
T3T4 50/.63 ar
38mm tial wg
spearco IC
hks ssq bov
egr delete
z32 mass
apr head studs
3 layers of a cometic hg
comp clutch stage 4 6 puck
oem weight flywheel.
3" exhaust all the way back.
shimmed j30 diff otw (prob. will fail.)

I can tweek a bit more out of it. but you know order parts online and ya have to play the waiting game. :bash:

well the thing is he already has an SR.. believe it or not he drives the KA track car more.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2...ginebayoe0.jpg

he did a high compression build on the ka, using sohc pistons to raise the compression.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6...ofpartsjp6.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/939...4302008pz1.jpg

than he made custom ITB's.. mind it's a lot cleaner now this is right after he finished making it.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5201/333333ig7.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4369/dynozd5.jpg

I'm still dying to super charge a KA but I haven't seen the results to warrant the money so far.

Boost.. I was thinking of doing NA/KA but that looks like too much money and work. I had the same idea in mind has you do.

I plan to boost my KA but only a bit not too much. Take your time and research. Go to KA-T.org look around.

N/A KA is cool, but your better off spending that money on a turbo kit or a supercharger. If you bought headers already then supercharge the KA.

a supercharger would be cool and different but i cant find a superchager kit am i not looking hard enough and its not that i dont want to boost its just i'm not doing that on this car i can get another one to do that to i want an na/ka because i want to see what i can get outta it.

There isn't really a viable kit for super charging. If you are really interested there is a section for it on KA-T. It seems fairly simple to do if you can do a little fab work.

IMHO if your are looking to go NAKA or SCKA do yourself a favor and find a friend that can fab and weld. you'll be better of in the long run.

Supercharging will require some fab work. Check on KA-T.org they have lots of great information there. If you want to buy a supercharger kit for the KA try talking to Thomas Knight, I remember a while back he made some kits and sold some. He has a website, google him up.

okay so if i were to supercharge the ka i could just use the spot were the old power steering pulley was mounted right and just have a buddy fab a bracket to work off that and would i need to get all of the same shit i would need to get for a turbo setup as well if i'm just gonna run like 7 to 10 psi

Ideally you want the super charger on the intake side but if you run a centrifugal charger you can put it any where.

This is the conventional way;
http://thumb5.webshots.net/t/50/550/...5EiwSBq_th.jpg

With the charger used in this pic I think all you need is the proper size pulley to run it in its optimum range and an intake run to it. Look up nomadtrash, it's from his car.

The KA will make a decent amoutn more than 150-160 with full bolt-ons. A healthy KA with I/E will make 155whp.

With full bolt-ons, it should be around 175whp.

okay so i did some lokking into supercharging the ka and only like three people have it completed i'm thinking i could just use a kit off the infinity G and place it on the exhaust side using the mounting pionts from the powersteering pulley to mount the s/c. and as far as i know at 7 to 10 psi i would be as quick as sti's and evo's wich is pretty good especialy since they wouldn't expect to be passed or for me to stay next to them without seeing a FMIC

I don't think you will be making gains that big but if you do the entire car with that goal in mind it's not an unrealistic goal.

okay so i talked to some people and they've suggested giving it a go and i can't see why not if i was originally looking to get only 200hp two the wheels 230 to 240 to the wheels is better and for less money just more time involed and it would be really cool and different

just so you know. a 3" exhaust is not the best for a na ka. 2.5 is the largest you want to go. 3" actually creates more back pressure than 2.5 because it allows the gases to cool faster which makes them more dense and harder to push out the pipe.

my car= reman kade, injen short ram, stock cat, resonator, 2.5" resonator back=142whp, 151wtq

with the 3" the day before it made 137whp, 148wtq.

now if you go forced induction like everyone here wants you to, then my statement is null and void. good luck.

For what NA KA? For YOUR application, 2.5" did yield better performance gains, but don's jump to conclusions and say a built NA motor should run the same exhaust as your stock motor. On a KA that is even mildly built NA (little bit more than just intake/exhaust), a larger diameter pipe will be more beneficial...

A higher HP motor needs to push that gas out faster. A higher comp motor has more gasses to get out and needs them out faster, especially if valve lift/duration have been modified. Too much back pressure is lack of win and there needs to be a happy balance between flow restriction and velocity. You want the exhaust to exit the combustion chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust flow.

On the NA KA I am building (full rebuild, overbore/high comp pistons, dual exhaust cams, dual valve springs, titanium valves, port/polish head and intake manifold, fuel system upgrades) I'm sure as hell not gonna run a 2.5" inch exhaust when I'm done. I'll be running a custom 3" mandrel bend full exhaust with a custom header as well.

I doubt this guy is gonna be running a 2.5 exhaust any time soon...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72...5/P4140038.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72...drum85/new.jpg

^^^^Nice setup. i agree with you, but the op was originally talking about just bolt-ons, which would benefit more from 2.5".

true i was looking for bolt-ons at first but a little help with other ideas is not bad either and supercharging my car with a centrifugal supercharger would be a super sleeper setup as i wouldn't need a bov because it can freewheel because its got a oneway bearing

If i amy correct you. The reason your 2.5" helped make more power was becuase it aided in cylinder SCAVENGING. A 3" pipe DOES NOT create back pressure. Pressure is like a measurement of restriction. So what youd be saying is the smaller or bigger you go, no matter what the more backpressur you will see, NO. If you blow through a small straw and a big straw, which one flows more velocity. If you blow through the big straw you flow more AIR or VOLUME. Thats he same thing with exhuast. The smaller pipe flows so fast it pulls the exhuast gases with it. The bigger you go the the slower the engine flows meaning that exhuast gases will not leave the cylinder as fast. Scavenging and backpressure are different. Big pipes hurt scavenging. Small pipes or bends gain backpressure.


Backpressure is not good.

what did all of that bs mean just give a simple answer please because i already have a 3in exhaust

KA's love to breath. Stick to the 3". The myth about the KA needing a 2.5" to make more power has been just that, a myth.

You're fine with the 3inch.

scavenging is done by the exhaust manifold or header by timing the high and low pressure exhaust pulses with each other.


absoloutley.
any change in the diameter from the manifold flange creates a venturi

a straw is straight and does not change diameter and also you're not going to get 100 degrees of temperature change in a straw. so that analogy is pointless.

as stated above, it is the low pressure pulses that pull the gasses out.

that's backpressure


the only way for an exhaust pipe to hurt scavenging is by creating backpressure in the manifold or header and shortening the exhaust pulse width. but yes, bend in the pipe do not help.


well that's true.


the fact is that the op already said he wanted to go forced induction of some sort. so his 3 inch will be just fine.

No you dont get it. Who said anything about temp?? Exhuast deals with flow/velocity. Flow is the speed of air. You flow FASTER with a small straw. With a big straw you can flow MORE air but at a SLOWER rate.




No its not backprssure. Please tell me houw a free(er)-flowing exhuast causes back pressure. Thats like saying an air pump pushing air into the atomsphere has backpressure, no it doesnt. You cant measure pressure of the air flowing out.


You tune the exhuast as a WHOLE. So if you have restrive mid pipe,bends/dia. then it will effect how the exhuast gases are pulled out.

belive me, i'm the one who gets it. and when you take your first physics class, you will too. and temp is at the heart of the exhaust system. air temp, velocity, density, flow all are directly related. if you change one of them, they all change. the only way for a larger pipe to flow more air is if the source of the flow is also larger.




your air pump doesn't have to channel more air behind the constantly changing air it already put out in a contained path. once you contain the air flow (as in an exhaust) you can measure the pressure of the air flowing out.

yes and as a whole, i assume you mean from the ex ports back.

Well it looks like we have come to terms but all im saying is if EGTs did matter, then that would be factored in when creating an exhuast system. But its not, its not as important as the intake becuase your not really using the wasted gases. You want it out of there as fast as it can while style flowing alot of air, whether hot or cold.

agreed..........

lol i guess its hard to pick an exhaust i just went wow whats that!!! "thats an Apexi dual n1" and thats what i got that same day lol

check this out.

YouTube - 1990 240SX SUPERCHARGED KA24E

That looks and sounds like ass. I hope it performs well.

Didn't Shelby say something about horsepower selling cars and torque winning races?

Huh...

Anyways, so I saw this thread. I got a 4-2-1 race header from dcsports and 2.5" exhaust, I was wondering where to get a 2.5" testpipe. I got a high flow cat, but I want to test it out with a testpipe. Suggestions? So much junk on ebay, I don't want to get something that doesn't fit or is rusted when I get it.

i haven't seen one that i would buy but then i went with a 3in exhaust i tried a buddys car with a 2.5in cat backand you cant tell the difference in terms of performance but the sound is so much better with a 3in

Your kidding right?

Your kidding right?
Stock SR turbo set up? T25 is garbage, HX35 and call it a day, cheaper than a crappy T25.


This whole thread is full of FAIL.

If you're wanting to see numbers on KA setups click here

www.ka-t.org :: View Forum - Dyno Results

Both ka-t and n/a. Also my best advice is to avoid zilvia for KA material. I love all zilvians but when it comes to KA's 95% of the members are worthless as was proved again several times in this thread. Granted no one tolerates stupidity to thoroughly search before posting any questions.

Are you talking out your ASS. I'm making 162 to the wheels stock internals and haven't even spent over $1100 yet. From stock thats over 40WHP. You will never find a cheap turbo bolt on application for under a grand and make 40WHP, seriously.

^Dude, learn to use the multi-quote function. Its a wonderful thing.

like umsports said....check out ka-t.org. tons of info!

i checked out ka-t and plenty of info for me found there thats deffinatly a good place to look but its all about forced induction there. Theres only like a few guys there talking about an NA/KA

If you want to do a NA/KA build then do it. I'm sticking with the KA for my DD. But it all depends on what you want from YOUR car.

im planning on doing the same thing on my ka,de... get ported/polished, slitely bigger injectors,fuel pump, cams, and slap on a t28 from an Rb25. is there anyone whos done a similar build? and how much power are u seeing?
Or should i save my money and get a sr front clip....?

don't get an sr i've had too many friends get popped by the police and then sent to the state ref and then they've lost all of that money, if you have a dd and then a fun car do it to the fun car

I've seen more sr valve trains blow up than KA valve trains.. A lot of these guys these days think that you can rev the piss out of the sr. Fact is it's just as revable as the KA. Piston speed on the KA is a little faster on upward momentum, but the bucket hydraulic valve assembly is way more reliable than the sr's valve train.

Nos! .........

What the fuck dude.

I was ready for BigV to lay down some KA law and I getWay to go.

I know 2tone1via is such a douche. Talks before he thinks, just like 80% of this forum.

KA-T all day. Well over 300hp @ 10psi daily driver. NA is just so much work and money for such little gains on pretty much any motor.

Whats your gas mileage like? 12mpg at WOT? That's really efficient.
Just go turbo mad hp with shitty gas mileage loads of fun boys and girls...LOL

Hmmm don't really drive at WOT everywhere I go so my gas mileage is fine. I thought this thread was about performance increase on a KADE motor not gas mileage. And since when is 300hp "mad hp"? I guess I must be in the "dick head" thread I meant to post somewhere else:rolleyes:

I would go KA-T if #1 I didn't live in cali #2 there was a good intake for the KA. The horrible intake seems to take so much to overcome na or forced induction. I guess we will see how good the upper intake is with the recent KA-Rs popping up.

I'm still going V8 at some point down the road.

No reason to be asinine. the thread states ka24de performance. Not ka24de-t performance, no need to be a douche bag and say something stupid like , "oh just slap a turbo on it and make that thing go, get 300HP". That's pretty much what you said in a nut shell.

Maybe I'll throw an Altima KA in a 2 seater sandrail. Sounds like fun to me. :2f2f: