SR20DE Swap Day 1

[nissantuner22]

So I get a late start today, between finding a suitable chain for lifting the old KA out, and finding breakfast. At around noon, I started to remove the junker KA. Took off the hood, undid all the electrical stuff, you know the usual.

Just some things I noticed about removing the KA..

- Jack stands are a must. With the front end up in the air you can get under the vehicle and remove all the stuff you need to down there near the tranny. Gotta make sure you get all those things disconnected.

- Leave the backend of the car on the ground. I read a post saying its a pain in the ass to get the driveshaft off ( the 4 bolts on the diff ) because it spins. If you have rear tires on the car, it dont move. Just get 2 at a time, jack up the the car from the diff, spin the shaft, lower the car, and remove the other 2.

- PB Blaster exhaust related stuff. God damnit I hate rust.

- Watch the power steering lines on removal. I about took them out.

- Leave tranny on, and shifter on, it comes out pretty easy.

So now the motors out of the car, the engine bay is empty, and I found a nice area of rust under the battery, awesome. Gotta fix that first thing, along with cleaning up the engine bay.

Tommorrow consists of detailing the engine bay, dropping in the SR, and trying to make sense of it all.


Will post pics later, not that anyone cares.

[aznpoopy]

sounds like fun. why does everyone do their swaps in the middle of winter? :P

[TiNMAN]

^^sarcasm?

[Ghettokracker71]

Wait,N/A sr eh? thats pretty cool for an original swap. Major props. What kind of power does that thing lay down?

YOu should post some pics :)

[aznpoopy]

^^sarcasm?

my own dumbness. i keep forgetting people live in areas of the country where it isn't 30 degrees at 1pm.

[nsn240]

Wait,N/A sr eh? thats pretty cool for an original swap. Major props. What kind of power does that thing lay down?

YOu should post some pics :)

im hoping mine should do about 220-250... i dont really know though, itll prob be ~10 psi. Im not exactly sure what his setup will be

[nissantuner22]

It's dark out. I ate an entire medium pizza from dominoes, watched the Bills get rolled on ESPN, and now its sleep time. I'll snap some engine pics going in, the engine bay before and after, and some other pics for you guys. I'm gonna run stock for the time being, well almost stock, its got an unorthodox pulley.... get some S4 cams, custom made header, mess around with some ecu tuning... the usual bolt ons

[aznpoopy]

sounds like fun man. good luck with the swap!

[kouki_s14]

sounds like fun. why does everyone do their swaps in the middle of winter? :P

winter break from school?

[aznpoopy]

but its c-c-cold.

and in summer break you get tons more time.

[nissantuner22]

Awesome. I rock. I managed to bend the shiznit outta a the power steering lines. Thats what I get for listening to my friend tell me it was clear!

Anyhow. The engine is out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0673.jpg





There she is in all her KA glory. It twas a good motor, about 150,000 miles on her, good compression on all cylinders. She will be missed... oh wait no it wont.





So now, onto the engine bay. BEFORE!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0672.jpg





Boom SHAKA LAKA!!!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0675.jpg



Ok so I'm not totally done cleaning it up yet. Im hungry. PIZZA time, and a beer.


More pics later, including the SR20DE going in.

[boosteds13]

im hoping mine should do about 220-250... i dont really know though, itll prob be ~10 psi. Im not exactly sure what his setup will be
Maybe with a DET, but no way on an NA.

[drift freaq]

you don't need some custom urethane engine mounts for that setup by any chance? hehehhehehhe if so go check out the group buy section. ( shameless promotion going on here :D) hehehehehehe

[Hitawall]

is the n/a sr a dirrect bolt in with no wiring issues ? i would like to toss a few in different cars laying around cause there cheap and there would still be an sr under the hood , but i never read much about anyone installing them . good luck player i hope you reach your goals .....hope to see some pictures soon

[nissantuner22]

you can either use the ka harness and ecu, or you can use the SR harness and ecu, if you can get your hands on it. its an easier install than a DET by far.

[aznpoopy]

is the n/a sr a dirrect bolt in with no wiring issues ? i would like to toss a few in different cars laying around cause there cheap and there would still be an sr under the hood

not to rag on the n/a, but the sr20det isn't just a sr20de with a turbo slapped on it. if you want to go with the n/a, go for it... but know what you are buying. a sr20de under the hood is not by any means the same thing as an sr20det under the hood.


The DET has oil squirter piston coolers
The DET has a bigger oil pump.
The DET has a different front pulley.
The DET has lower compression pistons (8.3:1 vs 9.5:1).
The DET has bigger injectors.
The DET has direct ignition.
The DET has a variable intake cam, runs retarded at idle, advanced mid range and retarded top end.
The DET has mechanical shim in bucket type lifters with a slightly bigger in duration exhaust cam.

[nsn240]

Maybe with a DET, but no way on an NA.

i think you'd be surprised... i havent dyno'd it yet, and 250 is probably more than it would hit... but its a pretty quick car, the high compression + boost makes good power. And its cheaper than a det... it does have plenty of disadvantages though (like you listed) Once i get the money, ill probably put a 'real' det in instead

[nissantuner22]

/hijack

I must be a damn fool. For some reason I thought the maxima clutch kit i got would have the correct throw out bearing. Needless to say, the project came to a screeching halt till 10 am tommorrow, when my throw bearing comes in. Damnit.

So the engine bay is pretty clean at least. The SR is just sitting... waiting...


The SR came with a power steering pump, can I use that one? I know I got the dual overhead engine, so the pump can be used and all, but I'm just curious if that works on the motor.

[nsn240]

/hijack
The SR came with a power steering pump, can I use that one? I know I got the dual overhead engine, so the pump can be used and all, but I'm just curious if that works on the motor.

im pretty sure you can, just use the de lines... i havent hooked mine up cuase im missing something in the pump though

[jobestudios]

Damn, me and my freind are SR20DE'ing his car too right now, almost done. It was decent.

[nissantuner22]

ah cool Jobestudios. You run the KA harness and ECU, or opt for the SR ecu and harness? any unforseen issues with the swap?

[IAM_SO_sLOw]

/hijack

I must be a damn fool. For some reason I thought the maxima clutch kit i got would have the correct throw out bearing. Needless to say, the project came to a screeching halt till 10 am tommorrow, when my throw bearing comes in. Damnit.

So the engine bay is pretty clean at least. The SR is just sitting... waiting...


The SR came with a power steering pump, can I use that one? I know I got the dual overhead engine, so the pump can be used and all, but I'm just curious if that works on the motor.


so im guessing you bought a oem replacment using a 89 maxima clutch?? did the place you buy the clutch from give you the wrong one? or does the throw out bearing just not work?


and btw...did you prep the sr? such as change the heater hoses in the back of the engine and plug up the avi hole or something?

(i just started to do a sr swap too)

[nissantuner22]

Its for an 89 maxima, correct.

The throw out bearing is different in size to the KA or SR one. Different clip design as well. They didn't give me the wrong one, they gave me the maxima one, which is what i purchased. I was just an idiot and forgot u cant use it.

I switched up the heater hoses to run to the passanger side of the car. I bought 2 step downs from 5/8's to 3/4 so I can just plug it into the existing firewall hoses. Pretty trick. Also did all the tune up work on the engine, and put a new water pump on. Should be good to go. AIV is on the motor still, undecided what to do with that. My big deal right now is hope I didnt drive the bus to bad on the power steering lines. :doh:

[kazuo]

you can either use the ka harness and ecu, or you can use the SR harness and ecu, if you can get your hands on it. its an easier install than a DET by far.

Explain how a SR20DE installation is easier than a SR20DET.

[kiss my bumper]

lmao your just starting that swap. lol.

i just threw 3 bearing in my sr20de engin today on my way to a drift event. time for sr20det !!!

[IAM_SO_sLOw]

Its for an 89 maxima, correct.

The throw out bearing is different in size to the KA or SR one. Different clip design as well. They didn't give me the wrong one, they gave me the maxima one, which is what i purchased. I was just an idiot and forgot u cant use it.

I switched up the heater hoses to run to the passanger side of the car. I bought 2 step downs from 5/8's to 3/4 so I can just plug it into the existing firewall hoses. Pretty trick. Also did all the tune up work on the engine, and put a new water pump on. Should be good to go. AIV is on the motor still, undecided what to do with that. My big deal right now is hope I didnt drive the bus to bad on the power steering lines. :doh:

o ok.... i see... so what kind of throw out did you get that works?
-thanks

[nissantuner22]

93 KA works just fine


and ya, im just starting the swap. Working 40 hour weeks with college wasn't allowing much time to swap it.

[S14DB]

So, why are you replace a working 2.4L with a smaller 2.0L?

[nissantuner22]

Oh how I love the fan boys. I'm replacing my old KA, with 150,000 miles, with a less milage, cleaner, more mechanically sound, easier to boost package. If I want to upgrade to a turbo later, it will literally take me no time to do, and on top of that, the aftermarket for the SR in terms of cams, pistons, anything internal, is far better than the KA. I'm by no means a KA basher, but I prefer a smooth reving engine over a low torque monster. Its personal preference, and a stock SR20DE is comparable in stock form to a KA24DE. Sooo. ya.


And on a sidenote, the throwout bearing for a 93 and up KA24DE WILL NOT FIT on an SR tranny. Nor is it in fact, the stock replacement. According to Autozone, Advance, and Central Auto, the stock KA24DE throw out bearing is not the right one. I had to cross reference the part number on my old SR and KA engine, and it came up with the stock 89-90 KA24E engine instead. So for those looking to use a KA throw out bearing, you have to use a KA24E throw out, or make sure you cross reference your old one, or you WILL get the wrong part at the parts store.

[S14DB]

Oh how I love the fan boys. I'm replacing my old KA, with 150,000 miles, with a less milage, cleaner, more mechanically sound, easier to boost package. If I want to upgrade to a turbo later, it will literally take me no time to do, and on top of that, the aftermarket for the SR in terms of cams, pistons, anything internal, is far better than the KA. I'm by no means a KA basher, but I prefer a smooth reving engine over a low torque monster. Its personal preference, and a stock SR20DE is comparable in stock form to a KA24DE. Sooo. ya.
Did you read aznpoopy's post? The NA and turbo SR's are hardly the same. I can understand a DET swap as a easy way to go turbo. But the NA SR is a more fragile block than the KA. Only direction you can really go in is I/H/E, ITB's, cams. But you're not going to boost it like a DET or even what an iron block KA can handle. Autech FTW!

[SoSideways]

Did you read aznpoopy's post? The NA and turbo SR's are hardly the same. I can understand a DET swap as a easy way to go turbo. But the NA SR is a more fragile block than the KA. Only direction you can really go in is I/H/E, ITB's, cams. But you're not going to boost it like a DET or even what an iron block KA can handle. Autech FTW!

Some of the FWD SR20DE guys were able to get some decent power out of their motors after going turbo. And they were on stock bottom end too.

And just FYI, someone above posted that the RWD SR20DETs had 8.3:1 CR. That's false. It's 8.5:1, not 8.3:1. If you don't believe me, ask Enthalpy and do a search on Fresh Alloy. They will laugh at you if you said 8.3:1.

Also, I am not sure if hydralic self adjusting lifters is the same as "mechanical shim in bucket type lifters", but I have a feeling that they're not the same, and the RWD SRs indeed have hydralic self adjusting lifters.

Not all RWD SRs have the VVT on the intake cam. Only the S14 and S15 motors came with them. S13 redtop or blacktop motors were both static cams that has 1 set lift and 1 set duration configuration. Nothing adjusts them other than aftermarket adjustable cam sprockets.

[aznpoopy]

And just FYI, someone above posted that the RWD SR20DETs had 8.3:1 CR. That's false. It's 8.5:1, not 8.3:1. If you don't believe me, ask Enthalpy and do a search on Fresh Alloy. They will laugh at you if you said 8.3:1.

just can't rely on the damn internet for anything these days!

[outerheaven2k4]

N/A power! Hell ya! ^_^
What SR20DE did you get? from a s13/s14/s15?
I've been looking for a SR20DE from a S15 personally :P

[JigokuZ]

Keep us posted.. I was thinking of doing a SR20DE for better gas mileage...

[nissantuner22]

Its in. Its official. After rocking the shiat outta it trying to get the mounts in, it finnally popped in. Its a grand sight indeed. Tommorrow I go about attaching all the miscellanous stuff, and just maybe.... starting it up! pics tommorrow morning for you guys.

Its an S13 motor, destined to be bolt on powered with ITB's

[kazuo]

HEY!

Umm.. you didn't answer my question.

Why is installing a SR20DE easier than installing a DET?

Just curious.

[IAM_SO_sLOw]

lol i didnt notice that you were gonna go sr20de i always thought it was a typo...lol anyways..will the 89 maxima clutch w/ 90 throw out bearing fit a sr20det?
-thanks?

[nissantuner22]

89 maxima clutch and pressure plate work, you must use a 90 throw out bearing from a 240.


O Kazuo, its easier because of the wiring, its literally plug and play. That and you dont have to cut out part of your fender for the SMIC.


Heres some pics, hopefully by the end of today it will look almost like an engine.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0680.jpg






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0679.jpg

[aznpoopy]

congratulations man! :)

[NZO]

What happened to the autech motorset?

[nissantuner22]

autech? no clue, must be thinking of someone else.


OH BOY the wiring. This is gonna be fun. I'm going to try to use the KA harness. Wish me luck guys


Today, I got a few things done. The heater hoses are all set up nice nice, custom routed. Worked out pretty well! The power steering is on, after I swapped pullies with my KA... different amount of ribs on the belts. AC is mounted and ready to go, and I test fit the SR20DE harness. Talk about a lot of plugs that I have no idea what they go to. In comparision to the KA harness, near the MAF sensor wire I have 3 big plugs that I have no idea about.

[SoSideways]

autech? no clue, must be thinking of someone else.


OH BOY the wiring. This is gonna be fun. I'm going to try to use the KA harness. Wish me luck guys


Today, I got a few things done. The heater hoses are all set up nice nice, custom routed. Worked out pretty well! The power steering is on, after I swapped pullies with my KA... different amount of ribs on the belts. AC is mounted and ready to go, and I test fit the SR20DE harness. Talk about a lot of plugs that I have no idea what they go to. In comparision to the KA harness, near the MAF sensor wire I have 3 big plugs that I have no idea about.

So with that said, you just basically :Owned: yourself by saying that the SR20DE is a much easier swap than the SR20DET swap, since the wiring seems to be an issue for you, and the only thing that's "easier" about the DE swap over the DET swap is that you don't have to drill a hole for the intercooler piping, which, if you must ask, is not a hard thing to do, unless you were going about cutting the hole with a Swiss Army knife or something.....

:duh:

[nissantuner22]

well...ya!

After readin more in depth it appears a lot of the plugs just arent simply used. Still though, Its not as simple as first thought.

[silviaz]

well...ya!

After readin more in depth it appears a lot of the plugs just arent simply used. Still though, Its not as simple as first thought.

This is always like that. Nothing is easy in life.
Props to u, that's a nice project.

[nissantuner22]

wiring Day 2. In the process of pulling the stock KA harness out through the firewall, and lengthing the SR20DE harness wires. More to come

[nsn240]

Did you read aznpoopy's post? The NA and turbo SR's are hardly the same. I can understand a DET swap as a easy way to go turbo. But the NA SR is a more fragile block than the KA. Only direction you can really go in is I/H/E, ITB's, cams. But you're not going to boost it like a DET or even what an iron block KA can handle. Autech FTW!

what are you talking about man? the sr20det and sr20de are almost the exact same motor (see above posts about the differences) The aluminum is more 'fragile' compared to the ka iron but you can go plently of directions besides na power... a set of det pistons and you are fine... or keep the pistons and run lower boost (my setup)

[nissantuner22]

an SR20DE with DET pistons and rods, oil squirters, is essentially the same motor, minus a different valve train design. It can handle the same boost at that point.

[nissantuner22]

UP FREAKIN DATE. Looking back on this swap, let me say this. At first I was intimidated with the wiring. I have thus realized, its pretty easy to get it to work. What you need to do guys to get a running SR20DE the easiest way.

- Use KA harness. This eliminates having to redo the 3 plugs by the battery
- Rewire Idle air control valve and FICD into one plug.

Tommorrow I'll try to write up some more info for you guys and toss up some pics.




So today I cleaned up some of the wiring, My harness was all unpeeled, so I taped it back up. *pics tommorrow*

I purchased a heater hose from a neon 2.0L to use as the top radiator hose, since im using the KA radiator. Trimmed to fit, worked well. *pics tommorrow*
Interesting sidenote. You can use a stock KA24DE radiator hose on the bottom radiator fitting, elimanating the need for crazy custom bent ones.


I then connected the vacuum line to master cylinder with a 3/8 fitting, since mine was cut on the SR.

I used the stock KA24DE ignition coil, in the OEM location, with my SR20DE coil plug. Since I used the KA harness, plug and play.

I checked all the grounds and dodads, filled up the radiator, filled up the tranny, and installed the SR20DE ecu.



NOTHING.

Car will not start by just plugging it into the harness. Clearly a pin or 2 is off, I will need to fix the ECU pinouts! DAMNIT! ( Anyone have a RWD SR20DE ecu pinout???)


I than attached the KA ecu.

Cranked over! ( My ignition was disconnected, valve cover off, and I had poured oil on the cams )

I cranked it over for about 20 seconds, than oil came pouring out the tubes onto the cams, and I was a happy camper.

I then put the valve cover back on, and looked at my good friend Rob. The moment of truth.


I turned the key, and it started up on the FIRST CRANK!!!


So there it was, on the KA ecu, KA harness slightly modified, idling pretty happily after sitting for a year in my garage at a cool calm 850 rpm. The sound of the stock secondary exhaust piping EGR outlet open was quite... racy. I let it idle for a bit, than gave it a little rev. OMG it rocks socks.

Another sidenote, I need to change the coolant sensor, according to my friend it reads in celsius, not farhenhiet, or vice versa so i gotta swap it. Anyhow more info and pics later. GO ME!!!

[theicecreamdan]

temp sensors dont read celcius or farenheit, they just change resistance at different temperatures

[aznpoopy]

congratulations

[sepulchral]

how much was that motor, is that a waste of time to replace the stock ka with that motor? i mean i know its all personal prefrence, but as far as power is concerned couldnt you have spent a lil more for a sr20deT or a turbo setup for the ka? nice swap btw.. what are the numbers on the stock sr20de? Have u started/driven it yet?

[Ghettokracker71]

Beat me to the draw,mcsepulchral....IIRC they have less output (stock) then a KA (stock) ? Hmm. Its a hot swap just for rareness,and etc alone.

Update with pics!

[nissantuner22]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/nissantuner22/100_0685.jpg


Hotness

[SoSideways]

Congrats bro! I wanna hear it running now!!! haha

[nissantuner22]

it needs new fuel injector o-rings, im flooding it out after i turn it off!!! o well. almost done!

[BigVinnie]

Good job on your swap, but what was the point. You just spent T&M installing a NA sr. Now you have an engine that is inferior to the DET, and you are going to probably be spending another $2500 on a turbo kit and more T&M for an engine that is still more inferior to that of the KA when bolted down to a turbo.
But if you are happy whatever floats your boat.

[aznpoopy]

blah blah blah

it's not always about more power. the end.

[kazuo]

it's not always about more power. the end.

Actually, yes...

it is.

the end.

[JigokuZ]

Actually, yes...

it is.

the end.

O' Really....

[decksy]

O' Really....


yes REALLY.

[nissantuner22]

Yawn. You know whats crazy, how much higher my car sits with the SR. Damn suspension

[nsn240]

Yawn. You know whats crazy, how much higher my car sits with the SR. Damn suspension

yea, you can see that in most sr swapped cars (aluminum vs steel) :-/

[TurK]

Yawn. You know whats crazy, how much higher my car sits with the SR. Damn suspension



ive realized that also....but the suspension also might just need to settle in ya mean?

[Toshiro]

I saw a sr20de car with 210 HP and 270 with nitrous...

[Irukandji]

Good job on your swap, but what was the point. You just spent T&M installing a NA sr. Now you have an engine that is inferior to the DET, and you are going to probably be spending another $2500 on a turbo kit and more T&M for an engine that is still more inferior to that of the KA when bolted down to a turbo.
But if you are happy whatever floats your boat.


he made it pretty clear hes doing an N/A sr project.

Soooo your post sucks.

[BigVinnie]

he made it pretty clear hes doing an N/A sr project.

Soooo your post sucks.

No it just rienforced my statement. Especially if it's NA.
EXAMPLE: If the ka makes 170CHP @ 5960 Revolutions Per Minute and the SR makes 170CHP @ 6680Revolutions per minute which one is going to win in the quarter mile, or in overall HP to torque, the KA hands down.
At the price you can get KA internals for, you can do High CR pistons, and knife edged crank rebuild for the cost of that sr swap and have a monster, and still be street legal. But like I told the thread starter "what ever floats your boat"
Guys in Australia that have the SRde want our USDM KA platform, so it doesn't reinforce anything you say. NA sr swapping isn't really to any advantage accept that it will have a little more rev for top speed, as well as your posting, reinforce what you say before posting. It's like saying think before you speak.

[KwKouki]

not many people are sitting with NA sr20s in the engine bay. He might be doing it for the same reason I contemplated it......its different. Throw some ITBs and you will have an amazing engine. Great job on the swap bro, looks very clean

[nissantuner22]

Ya Turk, i hope the damn thing settles some.

thank you kwkouki. Some ITB's on this thing will be a fun engine.

BigVinnie, I agree, its a dumb, pointless waste of money. But than again so is anything other modifcation you do to your car. I build my car for me, as a hobby, not because of what others think. I put a N/A SR into my car because I wanted to.

Pics tommorrow, injector o-ring install style! Merry late Christmas guys!

[BigVinnie]

It's all good man I didn't mean to offend you. Having a car with a 2700LB chassis, and a lower displacement engine for N/A is a step down, and now will take you even more work to make HP. I don't want to argue, but a sr20de would have it's advantages if it was in a lighter chassis car (like a datsun 510, or an s12 200sx, or even a sentra se-r 1993). I mean just the fact the sr20de doesn't have oil squirters is taking a huge risk on your engine to try and keep the rev high for to long.
If you just wanted it to do something different that is fine by me I respect that. I just don't think there was any SERIOUS thought involved, if there was a project that is devised propelly usually has an engine with more HP weither customizing a car is pointless or not. But you might just have fun with that high rev who is to say.

[kazuo]

not many people are sitting with NA sr20s in the engine bay. He might be doing it for the same reason I contemplated it......its different.

Frankly, thats a stupid-ass reason to do a SR20DE swap.

"Cause its different"

Who gives a shit if its different?

Only thing that should matter is what gives the BEST performance for the BEST price.

Being "different" always comes after everything else, esp. cost/performance ratio.

[S14zenkiQ's]

For those of you that think it's a waste of money, that's fine, it's your opinion, but I own a real S14 Q's in Japan it has a SR20DE with VVTi, and it is a better motor that the KA (IMHO) I had a KA 240 in the states. All I've done to this engine is intake,exhaust, no cat, ECU tune w/ speed limiter cut out (Japanese cars cut out at 180kph), oil cooler, and a yashio factory radiator. I dont know the power but it's plenty, I can drift on 255/40ZR17 ADVAN Neova's. I think it's a better motor. I love the DET, but you can build these Cheap all day, the only really expensive thing is a header, the cheapest one I've found is 60,000 yen (~$550.00) Tomei makes a lot of parts for this engine, including an ITB kit. go to the website, the HP numbers they show are a joke, they used the stock exhaust.

[nissantuner22]

Frankly, thats a stupid-ass reason to do a SR20DE swap.

"Cause its different"

Who gives a shit if its different?


I do? And thats all that matters. When I get some more money and can afford the ITB's, custom header, and play around with the stand alone, it's going to be a really fun car to drive. And thats why I modify cars. Because I have fun. Not because some other guy approves of what I do.

[trsilvias13]

I want to see # hp/torque

I never seen a KA dyno that shot over 200hp mark. if a Sr20de can do it, then I can see why a n/a sr build would be worth it.

What is the highest rwhp for ka so far? what is it for sr20de?

[S14zenkiQ's]

I've seen a ITB'd NA SR20 with ~330ps (really close to HP) at a shop out here called Tajima. it was an S13 NA motor, it wasnt even the S14 motor.

[theicecreamdan]

same numbers have been hit with all motor KAs... you just don't hear about them because they are used for off-road racing.

[sean350z]

sounds like fun. why does everyone do their swaps in the middle of winter? :P

I am, a kero heater does magic :)

http://www.eczaphotos.com/stored/seanlawenginebay12_24.jpg

http://www.eczaphotos.com/stored/seanlawautotrans12_24.jpg

though i'm working a little slower, i have a full time job and i don't have my SR yet. driveshaft bolts are a pain but after giving it my all and popping a vein through my forehead, they are off. auto trans was easy to take out and will save me a bunch of headaches with the minimal amount of space i have to work with in my garage....

btw, sorry to hijack your thread....i'm just as excited as you are and need to brag a little...my girlfriend is sick of hearing about it.

[BigVinnie]

The only advantage the sr has over the KA stock for stock is the head, (and cvtc really doesn't make that big of a difference, and on larger displacement engines like the KA or RB30det cvtc would be pointless especially since you can use larger lobe and duration cams than the sr). It was tested that the sr head flows slightly better, but those numbers are marginal by the slightest. Head porting isn't hard to do either and any do it your selfer could do it.
Heres a pic taken from the 200sx forums, Joel chose the KA over the sr for a few reasons. But here is a good way to tell that the sr ports are slightly larger, but that doesn't mean that cheap head porting to the KA won't make it any less better. Infact mod for mod with some head porting the KA in NA would show much better results.
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6307/intakeside7ny.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2234/exhside2sl.jpg
To s14zenkiQ's, next time you claim you have something show some pics, (Nissan doesn't have VVTI, it has CVTC continious variable valve timing control). I'm calling your bluff.

[theicecreamdan]

Nissan qr25 and VQ have CVTC
SRs have vtc.

[BigVinnie]

Nissan qr25 and VQ have CVTC
SRs have vtc.

Double dap for the correction..........

[S14zenkiQ's]

Everyone has their own opinion about which motor is better than another. I would rather have an RB20 than an RB26, most people that live in the statrs probably think that's stupid but if you know what an RB20 or RB25 is capable of, then you might realize that putting aRB26 into a Silvia/240sx is a waste.




To Big Vinnie: VTC is right, thats my bad, I can never remember what it's called. I'll get some pics after work, they're all at home. I'll bring them tommorow.

[KwKouki]

Frankly, thats a stupid-ass reason to do a SR20DE swap.

"Cause its different"

Who gives a shit if its different?

Only thing that should matter is what gives the BEST performance for the BEST price.

Being "different" always comes after everything else, esp. cost/performance ratio.

So you are saying personal choice is a "stupid ass reason" to do something
:tweak: What you just said makes me realize people forgot why its fun to get dirty when building cars *that would be self satisfaction* People are more worried about what OTHER people will think when you pop your own fucking hood.

His car, his build, his engine choice. I really respect him for this. I personally cant wait and would love to see this engine with ITBs. It will impress me more than any DET or RB swap.

[BigVinnie]

Everyone has their own opinion about which motor is better than another. I would rather have an RB20 than an RB26, most people that live in the statrs probably think that's stupid but if you know what an RB20 or RB25 is capable of, then you might realize that putting aRB26 into a Silvia/240sx is a waste.



You just made yourself the defenition of an oxymoron. There is a statement that lie's true to the tuner world, the "import world" has finally caught on to the expression "there is no replacement for displacement". The Japanese or european cars of today follow a standard to build engines with power, that follow basic mathmatics. Build a cylinder chamber larger and have more room to play with injection and atmospheric pressure (boosted or not). Selecting an engine for it's day has far seen it's demise since the arrival of the RB25/26. To select an rb20det would be ludacriss especially at the cost that you can get an RB25det for. Even for boosting the rb25 makes more power with increased injection, it is RETARDED to down grade and think you had gotten something better. To date even the RB25det has seen it's demise since the birth of the VQ35dett (which will probably be the standard in today's gt-R, Godzilla if you would like tyo call it).
But to get back on topic I ALWAYS watch the RB25 smash on a RB20 by any standard, an RB20 can not match the injection or boosting that an rb25 or 26can handle.
For those that select an NA SR over KA, plain and simply you are more stupid than you are crazy..... Just my 2 cent's..........
I think people should start paying attention to the KAdet guy's that are breaking records in the 1/4 mile with both the SR and RB guy's as major contenders.
It will make you laugh when you see the KAdet breaking records on toyota 2jz guy's within and under the 10seconds.
The thing that sucks is that people don't give credit where credit is due, and there is always a chump that thought he had gotten a good deal on an engine swap rather than taking the time to build something better for him/her self..........
This thread sucks and has turned into a shit talking debate.... Not worth it IMO.....

[kazuo]

So you are saying personal choice is a "stupid ass reason" to do something
:tweak: What you just said makes me realize people forgot why its fun to get dirty when building cars *that would be self satisfaction* People are more worried about what OTHER people will think when you pop your own fucking hood.

His car, his build, his engine choice. I really respect him for this. I personally cant wait and would love to see this engine with ITBs. It will impress me more than any DET or RB swap.

Personal choice, based on sensible reasoning, is a perfectly valid reason to do a SR20DE swap, but not when the logic behind it is, "its different."

I'm going to swap a D16 into my S13, cause "its different."

Come on dude, get real.

Now, if the justification were something like, "forced induction is against my religion," or, "I want to go N/A with ITBs," I suppose I can roll with that.

But, "its different?"

In that case, I stand by my original statement.

[nissantuner22]

When Swapping an SR20DE S13 engine into a S13 KA24DE body:

-Motor mounts are identical, just like the SR20DET, no brainer there.
- Lower SR20DE, and KA24DE harness's (The ones that connect to the tranny) are identical.
- Use the Upper KA 24DE Harness, with the SR20DE ecu.
---- In order to make that work you need to do the following:

2. On the SR20DE engine, there are 2 plugs near the injectors. There are 2 ground wires on the stock SR20DE wire harness in this area, to help you understand what I'm talking about. Its the 2 plugs for the Idle Air Control, and FICD device. You will utilize only one of these plugs, the one with 4 connectors in it.

--- On the KA harness, locate the following color wires near the fuel injectors.
1. Blue/ Red Stripe
2. Blue/ Green Stripe
3. Light Green
4. Black/ Yellow stripe.

You will take those wires, and insert them into the plug in the following order. This is looking at it from the top, with the clip facing north.

1 2
3 4

Plug the newly modified harness plug into the SR20DE engine, wrapping up any bare wires you have incurred along the way, they are not needed.

3. The TPS sensor. The KA and SR use different TPS's, with different amount of connectors in the plugs. Its a 3 vs 4 prong design. Using the SR20DE plug, insert the following color wires from the KA harness into it.
1. Black
2. White ( this one is a large white wire, you'll see it, its bigger than the others )
3. Green/ Red stripe

Looking at the TPS, running from up to down, wire it as such into the SR20DE plug

1
2
3

-- Plug that into the TPS, wrapping up any other miscellanous wires not used in this operation.

-- The harness will now extend across the front of the engine, giving you JUST enough room to plug the distributor wire into the distributor. If you would like to clean up the wiring, you would need to extend the wires just a tad so you can route them cleaner. Not needed however.

- The power steering plug plugs right in, since its the KA harness, along with the MAF. What I did with the Ignition coil was kinda trick.

- Instead of using the supplied SR20DE ignition coil, which mounts closer to the firewall than the KA24DE, I use the KA24DE ignition coil on my SR20DE engine. Since its mounted in the same spot as the KA motor, the KA harness plugs in perfect to it. Thus, instant ignition. I'm unsure of what voltage it puts out, but I'm sure its as good, if not better than the stock SR20DE coil.

-- Oxygen Sensor-- I used the SR20DE oxygen sensor, cut off the connector, which has 3 wires on it, and soldered on the KA24DE connector, which has one wire. 2 of the Oxygen sensor wires will not be used, they are there to heat it up, a power and ground. You only need to use the sending wire, which is the White wire.

The only other plugs that will not be plugged in at this point, is one plug near the coolant temp, and sending unit. Its not needed, either cut the plug out, and wrap up the wires, or leave it.

Also, on the back of the engine, the KA has a bunch of EGR air bypass yada yada emissions/ EGR electronic things. That translates into a few plugs on the back of your engine that will just sit there. They are out of eyesight, so I just let them be. If it bothers you, cut the plugs out, cover up the wires, and clean it up more.

At this point, your almost there.

-- Coolant temp Sensors

-- You need to swap both of the coolant sensors out of the KA, and into the SR. This will give you the stock temp guage reading, and let the ecu know whats up with the engine temp. Let it be known, the car will run without even plugging in the coolant sensors. I doubt your gas milage would appreciate that however.

Once the sensors are swapped, simply plug them into the KA harness, done.



Sidenotes about the Swap:

The stock radiator fan will fit, but just barely with the way I routed my intake and radiator hose. I used a KA radiator, so I had to have a custom hose running across my engine to the radiator. If you use an SR20DE radiator, yours will look a lot cleaner, and naturally give you stock room for the fan, and shroud.


That about does it.

[kouki_s14]

great info here, i really respect that you're doing something that few other people have done, if i were a NA guy i would probably do something like this too.
building cars is an art form, everyone should create their own style and it looks like you've got yours down. dont let anyone change your style
for some people it is not always about power and speed with cars and all the people on these forums have got to understand that, if this guy cared about that then he would get the det, dont let these forum guys get to you
whenever you do get the itb on her post videos of the sound please

good luck with everything and i hope the motor runs well

henry

[S14zenkiQ's]

You just made yourself the defenition of an oxymoron. There is a statement that lie's true to the tuner world, the "import world" has finally caught on to the expression "there is no replacement for displacement". The Japanese or european cars of today follow a standard to build engines with power, that follow basic mathmatics. Build a cylinder chamber larger and have more room to play with injection and atmospheric pressure (boosted or not). Selecting an engine for it's day has far seen it's demise since the arrival of the RB25/26. To select an rb20det would be ludacriss especially at the cost that you can get an RB25det for. Even for boosting the rb25 makes more power with increased injection, it is RETARDED to down grade and think you had gotten something better. To date even the RB25det has seen it's demise since the birth of the VQ35dett (which will probably be the standard in today's gt-R, Godzilla if you would like tyo call it).

Like I said before it's all a matter of opinion, there are plenty of low displacement engines that put out more power and/or use the power more effeciently than larger engines. as far as saying it's retarded to "downgrade" by getting a smaller engine, it depends on what you're looking for. I have no desire for a twin turbo motor, or a 500+ hp single turbo motor. most people have no reason for that much power except drag cars or bragging rights. if you have a daily driver why would you want an rb26? unless its stock or only slightly modified, you would have driveability issues. same with an ITB'd N/A motor.

To the person who stared this thread, Good job on the swap, whatever you're reason for it is, the SR20DE is a great engine.

[BigVinnie]

When Swapping an SR20DE S13 engine into a S13 KA24DE body:


- Use the Upper KA 24DE Harness, with the SR20DE ecu.



So I guess you realized that you can't use a KA ecu on an SR...... You stated earlier that you could, but let me explain why it would be dumb....
KA and SR run on completely different maps. The KA ecu also utilizes smog equipment such as EGR/BPT, and other numerous smog stuff such as the AIV which was mostly given on cali models, not federally regulated models.
You could use the KA ecu, but it would throw codes and run rich without the use of the smog equipment. You would also run into horrible problems with timing, the sr would run like shit on on the KA ecu.
You could take a cheap alternative route and use the Biki Rom though, KA and SR do utilize the same daughter board with the same part numbers. Then you can retune the ecu per every mod or bolt on. Much more efficient for NA tuning IMO. If you wanted to go turbo you could even establish new .bins to format for the turbo, that would mean that you wouldn't need use of an SAFC, (well that is incase you can tune good).
You will want to upgrade to an MSD SCI and coil the Nissan coil licks balls, and isn't well suited for an engine that revs higher than the KA, you will feel power start to drop off a bit early. You can always upgrade to an inidividual coil system if you do get the Biki rom.
Anyways I'm not for your project at all (mostly my biased opinion being a KA guy), but hope all works well, I do understand that people do work hard to enjoy the progress that they have put into there projects.....

[nissantuner22]

I was hesitant about using a KA ecu on an SR, but there was a lot of debate about it being able to run the car. A bunch of people pointed out it could run the car, but that was in theory. And it does do just that, it runs the engine. It just doesn't run it well. I knew about the different maps, I was just curious to see if it could indeed, start the engine and run.

I will change over to the MSD ignition down the road, with a nice set up spark plugs wires. The stock wires I have on there now ohm out good, but they could be better. As far as stock is concerned, its doing the job just fine now. Thanks again for the kind words guys, and BigVinnie, every point you make is valid and informational, please don't think you've offended me. As for the other guys, I think you upset them lol

[mrmephistopheles]

the idea behind using the KA harness/ECU was simplicity.
Have Jim Wolf remap your ECU and then not worry about having to rewire so much.
Of course, this was WAY more common in the days when DETs came with cut harnesses (because the exporters weren't considering the necessity of harnesses).
Nowadays, most every swap you see has a complete harness and it's easier to just do some rewiring.

[drftone]

is the 91 wiring different from the 89 n 90 for sr20det swap

[SoSideways]

is the 91 wiring different from the 89 n 90 for sr20det swap

1st of all, wrong topic, and 2nd of all, um, search much?

[sciamop]

How's the gas mileage on the SR20DE?

---

Grassroots Motorsports magazine just did bolt-on upgrades for their 91 Sentra SE-R project car: intake, exhaust, timing advance and new fuel filter = 134hp at the wheels (113hp originally). If you can get the S13 down to B13 weight (2400lbs), it should be a good combination. The SR20DE is a rewarding engine when pushed hard (6500-7000 RPM); the KA is a rewarding engine when not pushed hard (2000 - 3500 RPM).

---

I think this swap would be a lot more popular if the importers would sell them for cheap (under $500). Due to the B13/Classic, the NA SR has a decent aftermarket, so the parts are already there to make it a hit in the S13 world...

[S14DB]

Man, I got 145hp and Tq with I/H/E on the KA... Pulled to redline too.

[sciamop]

Man, I got 145hp and Tq with I/H/E on the KA... Pulled to redline too.

Who said anything about headers?

IIRC, the JDM SR20DE (9.5:1) makes 10HP more (150hp) than the US market SR. So theoretically, it would make ~144whp with I/E. Mike Kojima claims that Hotshot headers are good for 9whp. So our imaginary SR20DE is now making north of 150hp at the wheel with the same mods as the KA.

It is a bit Honda-ish to argue about 6whp, but we can honestly say that the SR20 owns the KA on its home turf -- natural aspiration! Right?!!

Not necessarily.

FWD (ie Grassroots Sentra) has less drivetrain loss than RWD. So if your (S14DB) figures are correct, a RWD SR20DE with I/H/E will most likely make the same or slightly more/less power than a KA with the same mods...

I think we need a dyno run... or better yet, 1/4 mile times!

PS My Sentra SE-R has been in the garage for 3 weeks now (replacing: BMC, axles, H20 pump, etc) -- I'm jones-ing for the SR20DE!

[nissantuner22]

While a lot of parts transfer over, I'm going to have to make a custom header for it. That damn steering column owns exhaust.

[SoSideways]

That thing rocked my socks off last night.

I went to open the throttle real quick to see how the throttle response was compared to most KAs or SR-DETs, and OMG, it was amazing.

That alone has me sold on the SR20DE. Now the hunt for S15 Autech motor begins... muahahahahaha!!

[nissantuner22]

HAHA, there was one for sale a while back. guy wanted 4000 for it. WOOOOOOO

Keep it, it would be cheaper to get a VE head... know what i mean?

I know you love that eager to revness sosideways :)

[S14zenkiQ's]

While a lot of parts transfer over, I'm going to have to make a custom header for it. That damn steering column owns exhaust.

I've heard that KA headers work with slight modifications to the flange, I dont know for sure, but it's worth a shot.

[nissantuner22]

yes I'ved heard the same thing. Cutting the flange, and getting it to match up with the ports on the SR.

[BigVinnie]

Not trying to rip you, but your claims really are biased with no significant fact (dyno result's).

Mike Kojima claims that Hotshot headers are good for 9whp.

Beyond any "claims" the DC sports header for KA makes that much (actually 8.2WHP) plus alot of torque with an actual dyno result. The collector size of the DC sports is 2,1/8", the hot shot for the sr actually breaths better with a 2,1/2" collector....So whats your point? KA still made more power with a SMALLER collector, and still made more torque, and achieved more power earlier in the power band.......
Now members in NICO and Fresh Alloy as well as JWT have claimed almost 10WHP using the the HOT SHOT header same collector size used on the SR, but supposedly there is the claim that the Hot shot dyno dips in the midrange significantly, unlike the DC sports...... If you can come up with a dyno of the HOT SHOT for the SR I would be interested to see the results.....
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/dcsportsdyno002.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/dcsportsdyno001.jpg



How's the gas mileage on the SR20DE?

KA will get better gas mileage due to the fact that it runs smog emissions (egr/BPT), it actually decreases fuel dumping. The KA also makes more power in it's stroke at lower RPM. Both the SR, and the KA use the same werner synchros system for there transmissions. Shifting between 2500RPM and 3000RPM the KA will make more power earlier, also allowing for earlier shift points than the sr.
The majority of fuel conservation deals with when you shift, you can drag the RPM's out on either the KA or SR and get extremely bad gas mileage.


Grassroots Motorsports magazine just did bolt-on upgrades for their 91 Sentra SE-R project car: intake, exhaust, timing advance and new fuel filter = 134hp at the wheels (113hp originally). If you can get the S13 down to B13 weight (2400lbs), it should be a good combination. The SR20DE is a rewarding engine when pushed hard (6500-7000 RPM); the KA is a rewarding engine when not pushed hard (2000 - 3500 RPM).


Still there is a big difference between FF and FR. FR degredation loss is relatively 15%, degredation loss is relatively 10% for FF. Comparing any type of dyno results claiming that the SR makes more power than KA is ludacriss, there is no comparisson. What you should do is compare a SOHC ALTIMA, or Stanza KA, to the Sentra SE-R sr20de.
I think alot of the Altima, and stanza guy's would laugh at those results for the se-r, (those KA guy's are SOHC)LOL.


I think this swap would be a lot more popular if the importers would sell them for cheap (under $500). Due to the B13/Classic, the NA SR has a decent aftermarket, so the parts are already there to make it a hit in the S13 world...


NO!!!!!! The swap will never be popular cheap or not. The only thing that makes the SR popular is having a turbo and the potential to boost with a good amount of high rev. The fact is it is still illegal for street use weither you think it's cool or not. NA SR fails by a large significant margin when it comes to making relatively good power.

Just for a refrence. Here is a KA with stock fram filter,JWT tune, header, and CAT back exhaust.NO other modifications. 40WHP gain!!!!!
I don't see an NA SR pullying those kind of numbers with a tune and basic bolt on's.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/KA24dedynoJimwolf.jpg

[Cashizslick]

The swap will never be popular cheap or not. The only thing that makes the SR popular is having a turbo and the potential to boost with a good amount of high rev. The fact is it is still illegal for street use weither you think it's cool or not. NA SR fails by a large significant margin when it comes to making relatively good power.

Not to bash the thread starter on his motor choice, but aside from being "original" this is a pretty pointless swap. . . . there is no point in swapping a motor that decreases your displacement that much (edit; a non-boosted motor).

Its a cool swap because its rare . . .thats about it. Im glad u got it running and that you like it.

[big-jg]

one like high raving light weight fun the other like lots of low end toque... SR20DE and KA24DE are almost the same when stock, performance wise. KA24DE has about 20 more toque at a much lower RPM.. but SR20DE is over all a much rav happy and lighter engine.. lighter the car the less toque it need to go as fast.. that's why 200SX or SE-R is faster then 240SX.. MY P10 G20 is actually faster then My auto 240SX (KA24E tho) even with a much heavier body then the 240sx. and i don't know about the FR SR's My FF SR has all the EGR/BET and it gets 28 in city and 35 on high way.
the KA and SR’s block is about the same, strength wise, They all can support up to about 400 hp stock. so KA is not any stronger then SR … as for this swap.. What he did is renew his car. is not that easy to get a KA in good condition, With that engine, that car can possibly last another 100k + miles. And the fact of having a different 240SX then every one else’s is something extra. And the sound of high raving NA engine . in the morning.. god I love it.. .. now with my KA24E dead.. SR20DE here I come lol… (no money for DET)
Question:
1) how hard is it to do a AT to MT swap.. I need to change the entire drive shaft for the MT right??
2) and what is the different between a KA24e wiring harness and a DE one??
3) And how much would it cost to take it to a shop?? I live in apartment.. for all of you lucky people who has a garage/yard.. lol

[S14DB]

Question:
1) how hard is it to do a AT to MT swap.. I need to change the entire drive shaft for the MT right??
2) and what is the different between a KA24e wiring harness and a DE one??
3) And how much would it cost to take it to a shop?? I live in apartment.. for all of you lucky people who has a garage/yard.. lol
Why don't you search instead of changing subjects? Didn't you see the other user get yelled at for that in this thread? :loco:

[big-jg]

the thread is about how to swap a SR20DE in to a S13 body.. not which engine is better.. i'm just trying to change it back... u need to chill.. the thread need to change subject anyway :mrmeph: ...............

[nissantuner22]

It all comes down to personal preference guys. As much fun as it is to sit and debate which engine is better, how bout we leave that to people who actually DO the swaps, and DO the mods. This is the last post for this thread, hopefully those who are interested in the swap learned something.

As for how FAST my car is compared to a KA motor, I didn't lose anything. I did however gain response, RPM's, and piece of mind knowing the motor i swapped in is low miles, and will last me for many many years. I'm not putting down 200WHP N/A, and im not turbo...so I guess this swap isn't regarded as JDM tyte for you guys. I apologize for not being just another SR20DET swap in the vast sea of nissans. If anyone has any questions regarding the swap, PM me, I'll try to help as best I can.

Too many keyboard drifters and haters ruining a perfectly good technical thread.

[delphis]

89 maxima clutch and pressure plate work, you must use a 90 throw out bearing from a 240.


O Kazuo, its easier because of the wiring, its literally plug and play. That and you dont have to cut out part of your fender for the SMIC.


Heres some pics, hopefully by the end of today it will look almost like an engine.



You know you can use an entire clutch kit from a det, you just have to replace the flywheel with on from a det and you will be good to go.

[drftwerks]

awesome search but i think he BETTER BE DONE WITH THE SWAP BY NOW

[SoSideways]

You know you can use an entire clutch kit from a det, you just have to replace the flywheel with on from a det and you will be good to go.

awesome search but i think he BETTER BE DONE WITH THE SWAP BY NOW

He has. He was driving around like a week after the posts he made about the swap.

He drove the car to my house like a week after that post where he pointed out all the stuff I did to his harness, and I even got a ride in the car with him.

delphis - way to go digging up an old thread to give the guy a tip 3 years after the fact.

[zaquanh]

anyone have info on S14 wiring for a DE motor in s13 ?

can KA harness be used on the s14 ?

[Ramonesfreak2010]

Did you really just bump a 7 year old thread?

[omgRWDgoodness!]

Look at the join date, tho...

[Kr883p]

i know its years later but im doing a sr20de to my s14 im just trying to figure the wiring situation any tips or advice

[1on1]

i know its years later but im doing a sr20de to my s14 im just trying to figure the wiring situation any tips or advice

http://bfy.tw/CmMI

Research the rest for the s14.

[TheRealSy90]

People get mad when other people don't search and start new threads.
Same people get made when other people bump old threads that are relevant to what they are asking/interested in...

[Tempo]

People get mad when other people don't search and start new threads.
Same people get made when other people bump old threads that are relevant to what they are asking/interested in...

preacher right here. Seriously, no one wants to answer or entertain a genuine question on the forums anymore, the only flourishing threads nowadays are the shit ones like doing it wrong and random picture reader threads >__>