Rear Toe problems

[The Hamsterball]

Hello, I searched already for "Toe", and didn't find enough help.

Okay guys I have a quick question. I just got my car aligned again at work (and I helped out so I could try to learn to use the machine haha).
The vehicle is on STOCK SUSPENSION, with the exception of Front Kazama tie rod ends + tein inner tie rods The front is:
0 toe matched (.02 degrees IN to be exact ha, i never was able to do that with the stock tie rods)
and i still have the camber difference problem:
Front right = -2 degrees of camber
Front left = 0 degrees
(I'll fix the front camber problem with coilover upper pillowball mounts)


The rear alignment is my prime concern at the moment. And we were using a Hunter Alignment machine.

On the rear, I noticed (as usual) that when we were adjusting the camber the toe was changing. So then we finished the camber and started adjusting the toe.

First the toe would not zero out. So then we gave up on that.

2ndly, the toe would NOT match at all. left and right would not get close to each other. And of course we could not match the rear camber.

The rear camber is at
Front left Front right
-1 degree -1.5

The rear toe is the problem

Front left Front right
.43 degrees -.46 degrees

That means my front right toe is WAY out of the factory specs (.5-.45)

When we had the rear toe rods adjusted as far as possible it was worse.
The technician said that I have to run the rear alignment like this for the mean time so that my tires will not get eaten up.


My question is.... Should I get Rear Toe rods to fix my rear toe problem?
That seems to be the case, but while I was searching I came across this thread:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=79041&highlight=toe

I read the following:
"Get RUCA's to fix the Camber. Toe should be fine after that(fixable with stock rods)."

"It appears that toe can be corrected with the stock equipment, as long as you have rucas."


I know that camber changes will affect my toe, but I don't know if buying aftermarket rear upper control arms will help my rear toe problem enough to set the rear toe to zero.
I'm not sure what the problem here is.

Question: Do you guys think I should buy some aftermarket RUCA (either C tune, SPL, or a used JDM-brand), or do I really really really need to get an aftermarket Rear Toe Rod instead to fix this problem?

Do most aftermarket Toe Control Rods have MORE adjustment ability than the factory pieces?


I would rather buy rear upper control arms, because I know I will need to fix the camber for sure when I lower, but if I cannot adjust the toe correctly with the factory toe rods, I want do fix that instead.

And also, I see some Ebay toe control rods online all the time, and I have heard C-tune racing's Ebay Toe control rods are basically Ebay toe rods.
Do you guys think it is alright to buy those?
I don't do any drifting, just mountain grip runs and track days, so I don't hit any curbs or anything like that very often (I have once, but not since that occasion). So the part breaking is not a problem.
I mostly care about the heim joint, and want the heim joint to last for quite a while and I don't want the threads and joints to rust over time.

Thanks in advance for the help and sorry for the long read.

[ranisron]

If I had to choose between RUCA and Toe rods, I would pick toe rods since I want to save tires. excessive toe wears out tires so quick that you will be shocked (at least I was, on a stupid strut/spring combo drop).

if you have the money to go RUCA + Toe rods, go for it. they are good mods/investments. Curremy, my plan is to ride on strut/spring combo with good adjustable multilink arms till I know my car good enough, then invest in some quality coilovers.

as far as brands go, the list (with associated arguments) will go on forever and ever. I have PowerTrix (gen II) RUCA + Toe rods, haven't had problems with them yet (3 months).

Hope this post would help.

Ron

[The Hamsterball]

Oh I definitely know that toe kills tires if it is off.

I mean, if you're going to have a tire with 90 degrees toe, you're just going to drag it to baldness.


But I was just unsure if I would be able to adjust the Toe enough to match it with RUCA.

I talked to some other people and really doubt it.

Okay I'll just get some rear toe rods. I don't need RUCA until coilovers, and maybe i won't need them even then (since I don't care about being low, and since the roads I race on have alot of imperfections, which isn't good for a slammed apex'i coilover'd car that will lose ground when going over bumps, etc.)


Last question, do most aftermarket rear toe rods for 240's allow for longer adjustment range?
I want to get my toe zero'd out.

[KFLS14]

Front right = -2 degrees of camber
If its stock suspension you should be in full spec..odds are something is tweaked/bent(lca).That tire is going to wear down quicker than all the rest guaranteed.
Not sure where you work at but check to see if everything is semtrical,grab a ruler or something measure.It makes no sense to have that much -2 without being lowered. You should be at 4x4 stock spec all around.
RUPCA Many brands to choose from figure whatever fits your budget
They do sell ecentric bolts if your going for a mellow shock/spring combo 1"drop. Will correct camber into spec without breaking wallet.
Yes toe rods allow for more adjustment.

[The Hamsterball]

Yeah.
But the thing is my camber is always changing every alignment (so is my toe).
But I never saw either of my fronts go past 2 degrees.

When I had the alignment done in january, it was like -1.2 on the front right for camber.
Front left -.2

I then had a crash, hit my front left wheel on a curb.
had to replace crossmember, FL tension rod, and front right control arm.

I got an alignment done again, and my camber was about -1.4 on the front right and close to 0 on the front left (again).This was in June.

On this recent alignment, I don't recall doing anything to the suspension on the front right at all. I have stock pieces. All I did was tighten a bunch of suspension bolts (H-brace, tension rods, steering shaft) before aligning the car.
And I don't have any visibly bent suspension pieces,
except for this crossmember, from the previous Japanese Citizen owner who jacked it up and left little nicks and dents.
But I don't think it would fuck my alignment (the dents)
And It's at -2 degrees.


My main confusion is HOW THE HELL DOES THE FRONT CAMBER CHANGE SO CRAZY WHEN IT IS NOT ADJUSTABLE?
I mean, it went from -1.2 to -2 degrees in less than a year.


And about the chassis measurements, I'm pretty damn sure that If I take a ruler and measure from the chassis points from the service manual in the BODY section, none of the measurements will be on target anyways. I'll go measure anyways for fun.


Can anybody give me an idea why I am having these alignment problems?
Does it seem like my control arm ball joint and inner crossmember bushing is so old that it flexes and changes camber?

I mean, I could guess it is a slightly fucked chassis.
But the carfax says this car has had no accidents.


I'm just worried about when I get coilovers. If I have problems with a stock suspension car, I hope that the aftermarket alignment pieces have enough adjustment to compensate with the vehicle's weird alignment.