S15 no worko

[TheSnail]

(s15sr into s13 chassis) Just finished the car and went to start it, it cranked, the fuel pump came on, but thats all. I checked for spark and had none, I checked the power going to the coil pack harness and it is 3.3volts, and should be 12. I made sure everything was grounded properly and it was. I had the very same issue with my last car, but I noticed the eccs relay was not pluged up. On this one I noticed the eccs relay does not click. I emailed a guy that did the s15 swap that had the very same issue. And he said:

" The S15 wiring is different from the s14/14 wiring in a way that that the power going to the ECU shuts off to when the key is turned fully forward. You should feel one of the relays click by the ECU when the key is turned...what I did was take 12Vfrom the cigarette lighter and wired it to the relay. Then the car fired right up.Keep in touch and let me know if you understand what I am saying."

So I hot wired power to it and it still does not click. I got two brand new relay spares, replaced the old one, and it still does not click. Every thing turns over, fuel pump works, but I have a half ass spark, and im sure it has a half ass maf, and cas voltage. My friend did the wiring but then ran off, so now Iv taken it apart and checked for issues. I made a diagram on how it is currently wired up. Please let me know if you see any thing wrong with it. Iv labled the colors and what they do for both engines other then two of the ka ones. The plug on top is the grey battery tray plug the middle picture is the brown battery tray plug, and the bottom one is the dash plug behind the glovebox. So am I missing anything, that would make the eccs relay not work?
Thanks


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/thesnail/diagram3.jpg

[MagnaDyne]

What you really need to do is get your hands on a set of wiring diagrams for both the S15 & S13. This makes it very clear where the S15 is needing 12v and grounds. Use the S13 diagram to find where to get the power & grounds, and your set.

The S15 ecu needs 12v in like 3 or 4 different places. Even more grounds. So if you are looking at wiring diagrams, keep a sharp eye, they are easy to miss.

Also be sure you have your grounds hooked up hooked up on the motor. There are a few on the rear of your intak manifold, and there is one large one in the very back of the engine (between firewall & motor) for your direct fire.

I wish I could tell you something more specific, as I have been in your shoes before, but wiring can get complicated. A number of things can be causing your problem.
Just stick to thr rule of giving your (S15) ecu what it needs, and you will be fine.

[TheSnail]

Yeah, I have both of the fsm's, and the have both coilpackharness grounds grounded. One at the engine and one at the firewall. I just have to figure out why the eccs relay in not getting power. I dont have any time this week to mess with it since my cal2 average is a 60 and I have the last test next tuesday which I have to get at least a 90 on, in order to pass the class:(

[MagnaDyne]

If I get a chance soon I will look at my S15 diagram to see if I can find anything to look at.
I don't have a S13 FSM, so I can't help there.

When I was wiring mine up I think I went a month overlooking one little black line on the diagram. Caused the ECU to not turn on. Drove me insane :loco:
It is probably just something small.

[MagnaDyne]

Get it working yet?

The only thing I can think that could be wrong is you have your ECM relay hooked up wrong. This is your ignition relay and can be found in your FSM under the EC section (Engine Control). The S13 may be similar, and that will help you find the wires that were dedicated for this function with the KA motor.

This relay flips 2 switches. It gets its power from a 12v supply from the battery after passing through a 10A fuse. After that it splits and goes into pin 1 & 5 on the relay.
Another 12v supply from the battery goes through another 10A fuse and goes directly to pin 7 on the relay.
So, to sum up so far, pins 1, 5, and 7 should be have a constant power.
Next after the power is going through the relay, we need to make sure it is going to the right stuff. As long as you are using the same relay plug from the S15, you should be ok, but you might want to double check the connections.

Pin 1 of the relay will come out pin 2 and go to pin 4 on the ECU. This is a Red/Black wire. This is a critical one to have right because this is the pin that tells the relay to turn on or off.

Pin 7 will come out pin 6 and split. One end will go the the condenser on the motor, and then ground. (The condenser is located wrapped up in the wire loom near the injectors) The other end will go to each of your ignition coils. This is a blue wire. Like I said before, this SHOULD be correct still if you haven't torn apart your S15 wiring much.

Pin 5 will come out pin 3, and that will split and go to pins 38 & 47 on the ECU. This will split again, and power your CAS & MAFS. This is a Black/White wire.

I am getting this info from the EC section of the manual on page 112-113 if you need it cleared up.

Good luck with it. Let me know if you need anything else. :2f2f:

[TheSnail]

Yes, you are talking about the same thing I have been studing for the past two weeks, Ive printed out the 5 or so sheets on it and still cant figure it out. I still think there is some thing wrong with the wiring of the eccs relay. I wired 3 of the 6 wires, which was #5 (a big white wire). I wired that to the s13 red and black wire (ecu relay). Then two of the relay wires #7 and #2 (white/black) merge into one white/black wire. I wired that white/black wire to the red s13 wire (ECU backup power). I still dont get power to the eccs relay. I tried hot wiring the relay accross different points, but nothing. Other then that, the only other thing I am suspicios about is the lightbrown wire I have going to the s13 ECU Power wire (Black/white). My friend that did the wiring followed some ones instructions from 4 years ago, so I wanted to find out about the brown wire. I searched the fsm for 2 hours and could not find anything about the brown wire. Thanks Magnadyne for your imput:)

[Sonic Motor]

the car has alot of electronic shit in the rear, if they are left open(circuit), it(engine) will not run.

[TheSnail]

^???, The only thing in the "rear" that would keep me from running is the fuel pump. The fuel pump comes on though. I only have half ass spark which is the cause of running with out a ecu relay. Since the power on the main harness is on a parallel circuit (one across the ecu relay), I am getting half the voltage to the maf, cas, and coilpacks.

[MagnaDyne]

which was #5 (a big white wire). I wired that to the s13 red and black wire (ecu relay). Then two of the relay wires #7 and #2 (white/black) merge into one white/black wire. I wired that white/black wire to the red s13 wire (ECU backup power).

Try switching #5 & #7. On my diagram #1 & #5 should be the white/black that merge into one. #7 should be the solid white.

Also, just make sure that both the power sources going to the W/b & W wires are separate and direct to the battery.

I would probably get rid of the brown wire out of the equation if you don't know what it is going to. You want to find the same wires on the S13 chassis that had the same sort of function you are looking to hook up. Find the Ignition Signal in the S13 FSM and find what wires are powering that.

Also note that to check and see if the relay is getting power to pin #1, make sure you ground off the chassis. The wire on the S15 relay harness going to pin 2 is not a ground.

If the fuel pump and such is priming, then the ECU is obviously turning on. If you are getting low voltage in your MAFS, CAS, and coils, this gives me hope that it is the fact those pins are messed up. Because, Pin 6 & 7 is what powers those items, and they are supposed to have their own power supply. (the white wire) Right now you are sharing that supply with the relay. (essetially a resistor)

Get those wires switched around and let me know.
Also, I know some of this could be stating the obvious for you, but I know how wiring can get, so just hang in there.
Good luck!

[TheSnail]

This is the thing that is quite confusing. While looking at the same diaram your looking at, it says power goes to 1/7/5 just like you said, it leaves the relay at 2/6/3. One of the things that is confusing me on wiring up this relay, is that the factory harness has the white/black wire going to 2 and 7, but as you see on the diagram it says 1,5, and 3 are white/black, 6 is blue and 7 is white and 2 is red/black. So since I have power going to the white/black wire that splits off to #7 and #2 it powers up #2, but by the looks of the diagram, only 7 is powered, which I dont understand how that is possible since both of those wires merege into one wire. But on the 2nd diagram it says the #'s are in the same place as mine. That is why im so confused, one says one thing but the other says something else. Also here is the info from some one else that my friend used to wire up. Note how he said light brown is the 12v start signal, but no where in the fsm did I see any thing about a brown wire. Again, Thanks man, 2 brains are better then 1 :)

the dash interface.
colors - function
org/blu - ignition 12v start signal
blk/rd - injector power
wht/blk - 12v constant power
lt brn - 12v start signal, power to mafs, egr, etc.
org - malfunction indicator lamp
lt blu - check connector
pink - egr
wht/pur - speed input from cluster to ecu
blk/pnk - fuel pump
grn/org - neutral pos sw.
blu/org - tach
lt grn - speed signal from abs ecu to cluster
grn - ac relay
pnk/blk - cooling fan
blu/wht - water temp
brn/wht - ac control box
pur &
lt grn/rd - front rt abs pickup
brn/rd &
wht/grn - rr abs pickup/speed sensor
blu/rd - abs malfunction indicator lamp
gry/rd - abs ecu power
rd - stop lamp sw.
blu/rd (thick) - IACV-FICD
wht (thick) - eccs relay
grn/rd - not used
blk - ground

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/thesnail/dscn4713.jpg


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/thesnail/dscn4715.jpg


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/thesnail/dscn4714.jpg

[TheSnail]

I just noticed if you look at the first picture in the second picture ive posted , it is completely opposite to what my relay says , but the picture next to it is identical to what my relay has printed on it. This means my 1 is 2, the 5 is 7, and 7 is five. Which is both of the white and blacks and one white. But i already have those powered (which now goes along with the diagram of the power wires you were talking about) . Man this is getting confusing... It makes me belive the relay is wired up right, which brings me to question the brown wire. The factory harness has it set up like this: the white wire and both of the white/black wires go towards the ecu. But the other 3 relay wires go off thowards the other side of the harness. So if the 2 w/b 's and the white are the power wires, why would the light brown wire be a "power to mafs, egr, etc? The brown wire is found of the f4 plug, but I could not find a detailed description of the f4 plug any where in the fsm. But just like the copy and paste I did above from the guy saying how to wire the s15 up, says the lt-brn wire is "lt brn - 12v start signal, power to mafs, egr, etc." So now the main thing is trying to figure out if he made an error with the "brown" wire.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/thesnail/relay.jpg

[MagnaDyne]

Yeah, it depeds on how you look at the plugs to deturmine what is pin 1, 2, 3, etc. Becarefull of that. It confused me a million times doing a big woring job like this.

Is the color of the physical wire light brown? Could it be that your friend thought "L" meant "light brown" instead of "Blue". This can also be confusing.

[TheSnail]

It runs like a new car:) It turns out to be the following: The relay goes across the following wires
1-2
3-5
6-7

Looking at the 3-5 the white powers the blue. I took apart the harness and followed the blue wire and after a plug it turns into a big black/red, that goes strait to the coil pack power. I was tired but I gave it a shot. I hot wired the blue wire with the cigerette lighter and turned the key over. I got a back fire. I gave it another go, letting it turn over for 10 secounds, after nothing I let go of the key and the car jumped to life. So it starts after I let go of the key from turning it over. I also noticed the temp and gas gauge was not working so I checked the dash plug and noticed that my friend wired 3 wires and not 4, and the forth being the ground. Which expains the why the gauges dont work as well as the start signal. I should be on the road this afternoon but I have to take the harnesses out and wrap it up nice and neat:) The whole time I knew it was because of one wire, and it turned out to be one fucking wire. Damn you blue wire;)

Thanks Magnadyne for your insight.
-Snail

[kingKAPD]

i know this is old but its the only thread of any use online to help with this conversion i did the same conversion to my s13 and cant get it started fuel pump comes on eccs relay clicks over but ive only got low voltage at the injectors any ideas?

thanks