Custom Sound System

[Powerzen2002]

Hey.  Anyone have any links off hand on where I can get some custom pieces for my trunk to put 10"s in.  I would do it myself, but to much work.

Saying thsi because I wanna put 6x9's in the rear as well.  Anybody do this either?  Cuz Im gonna do that part custom myself.  Or if anyone has any other ideas on where to put 2 10's in this little car, would be appreciated!

[tkrolo]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[tkrolo]

Since you get optimum sound from round speakers, I would suggest putting a set of 6.5" component set in the rear(separate woofer and tweeter) since they would take up the same amount of space as a 6x9. You probably would have to make a special mount for the speakers (like masonite or something similar) and then mount that to the car.

Whether you have the hatchback or not, the most logical place is right behind the seats. You will probably want a sub that requires a small sealed enclosure to keep as much usable space as you can. I personally think 1 sub is enough for a car as small as ours depending on how much power you are running. I made an enclosure from fiberglass and molded it into the right rear between the tail lights and the wheel well. It took some experimenting since it was my first time working with the stuff.
I used a fiberglass that doesn't require a separate hardener(it uses UV rays to harden!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. If you decide to go this route, practice with something small to see how to work the material. Also make sure to get some fiberglass matting to use for strength purposes.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tkrolo @ May 15 2002,7:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since you get optimum sound from round speakers, I would suggest putting a set of 6.5" component set in the rear(separate woofer and tweeter) since they would take up the same amount of space as a 6x9. You probably would have to make a special mount for the speakers (like masonite or something similar) and then mount that to the car.

Whether you have the hatchback or not, the most logical place is right behind the seats. You will probably want a sub that requires a small sealed enclosure to keep as much usable space as you can. I personally think 1 sub is enough for a car as small as ours depending on how much power you are running. I made an enclosure from fiberglass and molded it into the right rear between the tail lights and the wheel well. It took some experimenting since it was my first time working with the stuff.
I used a fiberglass that doesn't require a separate hardener(it uses UV rays to harden!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. If you decide to go this route, practice with something small to see how to work the material. Also make sure to get some fiberglass matting to use for strength purposes.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The best place for any speaker is in front of you, especially components where the highs are very prone to interferences like seats.

I'm running 2 12's in the rear @ 400 watts (RMS) apiece; it's pretty nice, I wouldn't want less because the car is pretty loud from road noise and such.

I totally agree about comps though, eliptical speakers distort.

I'd like to see your sub enclosures, I started this project and made the body mold but gave up because i figured that cancellation would be an issue. If you can post some pictures then that would be GREAT!

[sykikchimp]

there's really no need to spend the money on compnant speakers for the rear. &nbsp;That much sound will distort the sound stage. &nbsp;I know a lot of guys that don't even use rear speakers, but they have high end 3-way componants up front. &nbsp;I myself just put some MBQuart 4x6's in the back for rear fill. &nbsp;Put the componants up front where they belong.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ May 16 2002,11:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there's really no need to spend the money on compnant speakers for the rear. That much sound will distort the sound stage. I know a lot of guys that don't even use rear speakers, but they have high end 3-way componants up front. I myself just put some MBQuart 4x6's in the back for rear fill. Put the componants up front where they belong.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree with the rear-fill;
I'm using a set of CDT 3 way comps and rear-fill just muddys it up. Keep it simple and go for quality in the front where it counts.

[HKrpS13]

I have three 10" boxed in my S13 and the hatch closes with the hatch cover.

Could someone tell me what opened box and sealed box is, and how you decide which one to get.

[tkrolo]

I wasn't suggesting that the components be added for sound stage, just for fill; if he's going to have some back there they may as well be putting out quality sound.

You are right, the ideal place for speakers would be in the doors with the tweeters set higher than the midbass. To increase performance I used some waterproofing baffles and coated them with a light coat of fiberglass giving the midbass a small enclosure.

I would still go with a larger diameter midbass in the rear for lower extension. There are many places selling quality component sets for $100 or less.

If you are wanting a competition system, the rear fill isn't necessary but a 3 way component set in the front would be very beneficial.

mrdirty, what cancellation are you referring to? In the enclosure? If so I filled the enclosure with polyfill for that reason and that the enclosure size was smaller than recommended for my sub; I had no problems with standing waves.

I don't have a digital camera or scanner at this time so I can't post any pictures. Not sure you would want to see them anyway. It was my first time working with this material and really wasn't sure how to go about making the form. And due to my impatience, I never finished the exterior of the box. I just sent my infiniti beta sub in to be repaired (surround was torn and had started sounded shitty) and may finish it or I was thinking about integrating it into the rear seat, making it recessed from the front side of the seat with the enclosure extending out from the seat back. Thought about using it as an amp rack as well.

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HKrpS13 @ May 16 2002,2:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have three 10" boxed in my S13 and the hatch closes with the hatch cover.

Could someone tell me what opened box and sealed box is, and how you decide which one to get.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It's not Opened.. &nbsp;its Ported.

Sealed enclosure is just that.. it's sealed.

Ported box has a plastic tube stuck in it that allows free movement of air in and out of it. &nbsp;It is always tuned to a specific freq. &nbsp;If you sub plays notes below that freq. it will be just like it's free-air.

Sealed enclosures are generally used for Sound quality, for clean crisp Bass. &nbsp;They also take up much less space than a ported box. &nbsp;Ported boxes are usually about 1 1/2x to 2x as big (interior volume) as a sealed box, and are almost always Louder. &nbsp;They are geared more for SPL, although a good ported box can be just as clean as a sealed box. &nbsp;They are heavier and require more space too.

cliff's notes:
Reasons to buy:
Sealed - Want clean accurate bass and/or are limited on space
Ported - Want to be loud, and don't care about the extra weight, loss of trunk space, or extra power that will be required to push it.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tkrolo @ May 16 2002,1:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wasn't suggesting that the components be added for sound stage, just for fill; if he's going to have some back there they may as well be putting out quality sound.

You are right, the ideal place for speakers would be in the doors with the tweeters set higher than the midbass. To increase performance I used some waterproofing baffles and coated them with a light coat of fiberglass giving the midbass a small enclosure.

I would still go with a larger diameter midbass in the rear for lower extension. There are many places selling quality component sets for $100 or less.

If you are wanting a competition system, the rear fill isn't necessary but a 3 way component set in the front would be very beneficial.

mrdirty, what cancellation are you referring to? In the enclosure? If so I filled the enclosure with polyfill for that reason and that the enclosure size was smaller than recommended for my sub; I had no problems with standing waves.

I don't have a digital camera or scanner at this time so I can't post any pictures. Not sure you would want to see them anyway. It was my first time working with this material and really wasn't sure how to go about making the form. And due to my impatience, I never finished the exterior of the box. I just sent my infiniti beta sub in to be repaired (surround was torn and had started sounded shitty) and may finish it or I was thinking about integrating it into the rear seat, making it recessed from the front side of the seat with the enclosure extending out from the seat back. Thought about using it as an amp rack as well.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I wanted to fire both subs out from the wells and didn't want to cause cancellation between the two.

I've been contemplating firing them out of the rear seat too, but the main problem would be securing them in and then the metal panel would vibrate something aweful. Maybe one in each side w/ the steel plate replaced w/ fiberglass
hmmm.....

I like your idea for the midbass enclosure, i'm still looking for ideas for mine. I think they're going in the doors in pods. I think rear-fill is ok, but matching brands is critical and the cross-over point is tricky to avoid messing your stage.

So you've gotten better results with the tweet higher huh?

[tkrolo]

Not a lot higher, 4-8 inches or so. I like the boost the frequencies a little at 167 Hz or something like that. I just like keeping the highs away from the bass waves to avoid distorting them.

Im really not sure the exact equilization point, it is a factory frequency on my cdx-m750. It is amazing what music we actually miss. By boosting that frequency a little and cutting a little from the higher bands you can hear more of the bass guitar, etc.

As for your idea on the subs firing out of each fender well, I don't think you would have any cancellation. I think that would only apply if the subs were firing into a small area with nowhere else for the waves to go but into each other.

I am also tinkering with the idea of using 8s in the b pillar in an isobaric configuration. It is said that you gain 3db from that config, but you lose a little efficiency. My main concern with that is my 3 kids!! The car has to maintain the use of all 4 seats.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tkrolo @ May 16 2002,2:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not a lot higher, 4-8 inches or so. I like the boost the frequencies a little at 167 Hz or something like that. I just like keeping the highs away from the bass waves to avoid distorting them.

Im really not sure the exact equilization point, it is a factory frequency on my cdx-m750. It is amazing what music we actually miss. By boosting that frequency a little and cutting a little from the higher bands you can hear more of the bass guitar, etc.

As for your idea on the subs firing out of each fender well, I don't think you would have any cancellation. I think that would only apply if the subs were firing into a small area with nowhere else for the waves to go but into each other.

I am also tinkering with the idea of using 8s in the b pillar in an isobaric configuration. It is said that you gain 3db from that config, but you lose a little efficiency. My main concern with that is my 3 kids!! The car has to maintain the use of all 4 seats.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well i'm seriously considering putting my tweets up high now that i've re-assesed the seating config; someone here pointed out in another post that high freq cancellation is high in foot well locations.

I'm using 6 1/2s for mid-bass and I think you're reffering to the angle in the pillar (where exactly?) causing a combination effect; but the angle is critical (45 Deg I think).

Yeah, firing two drivers directly towards eachother w/ same freq and phase will cancel the signals.

Hopefully the weather will improve enough for me to finish my kick panel pods...

Don't worry about the 'glassing, everyone sucks at it at first; eventually you'll get really good at it and it won't be such a pain. Definatelly stick w/ chopped mat though, it's much easier to use and is really easy to get bubbles out from.

Isobarics are difficult to tune and are inefficient but will give near vented sound from a VERY small enclosure. What are you going to use for the dampener? I've heard that fiberglass insulation works quite well but would be concerned w/ glass fibers getting into the voice coil and fugging it.

[tkrolo]

My tweeters are still in the doors just recessed a about 5inches further up and in. &nbsp;

The glass that worked best for me was uv activated. &nbsp;I used traditional at first, but finding the right mixture of hardener, and the fact I wasn't really sure how to use it, made it a miserable failure. &nbsp;The uv activated glass gave me time to work the material, shaping it like I wanted, then layering nylon like mesh glass over it. &nbsp;

To my surprise, within 15 minutes or so, the glass dried hard enough to sand and reapply. &nbsp;The first part of my enclosure looks like shit, so I'll probably end up trashing it since I have a better idea of want I want and how to get it.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tkrolo @ May 16 2002,3:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My tweeters are still in the doors just recessed a about 5inches further up and in.

The glass that worked best for me was uv activated. I used traditional at first, but finding the right mixture of hardener, and the fact I wasn't really sure how to use it, made it a miserable failure. The uv activated glass gave me time to work the material, shaping it like I wanted, then layering nylon like mesh glass over it.

To my surprise, within 15 minutes or so, the glass dried hard enough to sand and reapply. The first part of my enclosure looks like shit, so I'll probably end up trashing it since I have a better idea of want I want and how to get it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I think you'd have better luck with traditional glas. The ratio is 100:1 for polyester resin.

Do yourself a flavor and buy a bunch of syringes and paper tubs from the fiberglass place. Make a "dipstick" and figure out how much resin to dump into a paper tub to get a measured amount, then just inject the proper amount of hardener w/ the syringe.

I mix 250mL a batch w/ 100:1.25 ratio for the first batch and then 100:1 for subsequent batches. If you're layering up thick then use 100:.8 or so.