S-chasss: Ultimate Street Car Challenge contender?

[OptionZero]

So i'm flipping through the newest Sport Compact Car, and this is their annual "contenders" issue, where they show off the people contending in their Ultimate Street Car Championship contest.

This year there are a couple EVOs, an STi, supercharged S2k, supercharged NSX, R34 GTR, LS1 powered FD, hardtop single turbo Supra (only 3,100lbs!!!), MR2 turbo, turbo GS-R integra, and a prepped Audi TT.

Last year's winner was an MR2 w/ supercharged V6- it was well balanced and setup, didn't win every category but finished highly in many of them. Stock brakes with R-compounds and good pads ruled for him, plus reliability and driveability.

Before that, a blown 350Z, also not that modified.

Also winning previous years: Ferrari 360 Modena with barely any modifications (finished highly across the board, factory reliability and finish), and a modded Dodge Viper.

So I'm thinking, why hasn't there been an S-chassis contender?

While GT-R's and Supras can make more ultimate power, extreme cars do not always fare that well. If you don't read the mag, their tests include power band measurements (not just peak power, they measure power in 100rpm increments to reward torque curve), daily driveability, ride comfort, fuel economy, exterior, and "engineering"...in additon of course to skidpad, dyno, acceleration, road course and burnouts.

So I'm sure there are some S-chassis cars that can put on a decent showing across the board, and hey, if the obligatory Supra, Skyline, or EVO break down, then...

Of course many people are focused on drifting, and such a car probably isn't geared for this contest, but I also know there are people with well-sorted out cars that could do some damage.

On FA, I wouldn't mind seeing '97 S14 SE (White Bunny, i think he makes 330rwhp or so and big huge tires), or "glenn" (silver S13 road racer www.stillensucks).

Thoughts?

A 350Z or MR2 doesn't outclass an S-chassis by that much, especially given that aftermarket solutions exist for virutally anything you can dream of (SR/RB/v8/KAT, infinity of suspension and diffs)

[upSLIDEdown]

I have often thought the same thing, and have thought I might enter if my car ever gets finished. (350-400 whp KA-T). Already have every piece of suspension imaginable on the car. I'd have to invest in some good lightweight moderately sized wheels so I could run a good sized 'grip tire'.

[wootwoot]

an s14 with a mildy upgraded but fully built motor for reliability could do extremly well. 350whp and 2800 pounds would be amazing in this competition espicially if you kept a/c and all of that jibber jabber. Just drop the majority on suspension and making it reliable. One thing strange there is that from what I knew from the rules, push rods were illegal which makes me wonder about that rx7. So many better cars could be put into there as well. I dont want to see multiple evo's and cars I can only acquire if I was rich and had hook ups. I'm really not impressed by this challenge to much from what Ive seen in the past. Something else that bugs me is they need something to compare the numbers to. They show cars with 500whp running 13's because of the lack of traction but what does that really mean to me when I have no comparison? They need to run a stock evo through everything as well since that is there benchmark car as MotorTrend has the z06 for theirs

[JaeTea]

I think, unfortunately in this coutry, the s-chassis has a stigma of being a "drift car" and thats it. Which is probly why it doesn't get enough votest to get into the USCC.

I don't think people believe a well sorted S14 can do really well in this contest.

[TheWolf]

there is a price to enter as well..... I'd be willing to say it's quite moderate due to the ammount of exposure one could recieve. I doubt this is in all fairness a "competition" but rather who has the best 'demo" car... if you ever deal with primedia you'll understand..

[MakotoS13]

One thing strange there is that from what I knew from the rules, push rods were illegal which makes me wonder about that rx7.

wrong. push rods are outlawed in the time trials because they would dominate the competition. they don't want their pretty GTR getting spanked by a Z06. that event had nothing to do with the USCC.

one year there was a blown foxbody stang that murdered everything but the twin engine tibby in the quarter. that was my favorite year, and when the viper pwned the competition with his pushrod powered V10.

[OptionZero]

Yeah, there's some pretty expensive hardware.
It's more than just throwing parts at a chassis, you're going up against individuals and groups with racing experience who have beaten their cars at the track to find optimal alignment settings, and you need SPARE PARTS for every catatrophe.

There was nick wong's R32, which was raping everything until something blew up on like the 3rd to last test.

I also find it interesting that there are some really extreme cars that do not do well, such as that 2nd gen Viper and the BMW V12 powered roadster thingie.

SCC is a magazine, so they do tend to use the GT-R image and trends to move covers- maybe thats why they haven't gotten an S-chassis.

There hasn't been a strong showing from the FD crowd, but i'm thinking some of the guys at www.rx7club.com who reject the notion that a rotary can't stay healthy should enter and represent.

I'm also curious to see how that US-spec STi does, because I haven't seen too many modded ones (more than exhaust/wheels) around.

Power levels seem to have died down in recent years...but taht could be people learning that high horsepower doesn't always last through the contest (stuff always blows up).

That 3,100lbs supra seems like it should do well.

I also wanna see a blown TSX-powered (k24) Lotus Elise rape the field, but it wouldn't do that well in driveability or the Grandma test.

Biggest complaint:
They need to drive the cars during the contenders issue, so they can comment on actual performance rather than listing parts and rambling hype. It's better this year, becuase they actually divide the column for each car into "strengths" and "weaknesses" , even if that dont go into much depth.

[MakotoS13]

i'm thinking some of the guys at www.rx7club.com who reject the notion that a rotary can't stay healthy should enter and represent.

thats kinda like having a broadway musical loving barbara streissand worshipping son who has a lisp and telling all your friends he's straight with a beautiful wife and three kids.

[OptionZero]

you should go to that forum and say it =P

[MakotoS13]

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=4811991#post4811991

enjoy.

[elphkotm]

... because nobody in the community produces a good street car. You have the drifters, who have the cash and the skills, but are deep into their drifting thing, and then everyone else that is too worried about uber-sweet JDM aero, fitting a 205mm tire on a 12" wide wheel, and how OMGFLUSH!!!1 tight 0 offset wheels can be if they run -9403 camber. There are few exceptions to this that have been mentioned, like Glenn's car on www.stillensucks.com.

[OptionZero]

WHITE BUNNY!
He's a drifter but i'm fairly certain he also tracks his car and if he wanted to, could set it up to be fairly competitive (with the motivation to do so).

Last I checked he was throwing on Vertex Ridge wide body (instant car show winner), and some 275's all around or something. He already has a reliable 300+ rwhp on 14lbs from a KA and is daily driven.
Also he is known for that clutch/flywheel combo from the Datsun truck, which lets you hold more power more easily.

you are correct though, not many S-chassis owners go for road course dominance.

The tough part is also that those other cars usually are backed up by serious money and occasioanly have professional drivers doing the road course (evo is driven by frickin John Mueller)

[drift freaq]

WHITE BUNNY!

Also he is known for that clutch/flywheel combo from the Datsun truck, which lets you hold more power more easily.

y)
hahahhahha, ya the joke about that though is, I did that setup before him and it was a Hardbody truck flywheel and it is a 240mm surface area vs our 225mm. and if you doubt me on that check the FA archives for dpro. I was the first person to do it. T.Y. suggested it and I went and did it somewhere around 2001-2002 on my Old low mileage 91.

[veilside180sx]

I was considering putting my car in for next year. You can see my build up here.....although I'm just as guilty for the big power setup. I did go with the smallest turbo I could to hit 500-550 rwhp.=) i don't know how well they would cater to a SOHC though.=)

I'd have to shell out quite a bit of money to finish up before next Sept. though.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=86974

[wootwoot]

^^^ you dont need 500-550whp, that seems to be a lot of the trouble. A reliable thick powerbanded 400bhp in a car weighing 2700-2900 pounds can win easily. The secret is making the car clean, handle exceptionally without being harsh, and brake well. It seems that the best thing to do is pick from a car that has lots of part sharing and you can upgrade as the company itself did. Thus, 3rd gen rx7, mr2, s13/s14, Miata, etc....I think an s13 coupe with all around 300zx brakes, light ass wheels dialed suspension, motor built for 600whp but has 350whp could dominate. Someone needs to step up let it be SCC themselves

[kandyflip445]

They should add a test on their USCC for street legality. All of the cars would suck. HAHAHAHAHA.

[kazuo]

They have (had?) an emissions test.

Of course none of the cars are truly street legal, just registered and driveable on city streets.

My reasoning for no S-chassis... they all generally are nothing special and aren't really "built."

The only ones I know of that I'd even dare throw out there belong to Glenn Nakata (stillensucks.com) and Ralph Kenyon's 6 speed with the huge ass turbine. (no website)

[nistech]

good point our cars are under rated

[kandyflip445]

What about the guy with the VG30DET in his 240? All he needs is some suspension work and some chassis strengthening. That would be a cool canidate.

[ZK]

I remember the white JIC 240SX drift car competed in a time trial lap shoot out in a Sport Compact Car article a little while ago. Didn't do bad but the car developed some mechanical problems.

[OptionZero]

There is "legality test" sorta.
Emissions, grrandma test, daily drivability (clutch feel, ride harshness, noise, etc).

Yeah, i'm thinkin 400rwhp in an S-chassis with light wheels and other chassis ligthtening comingi n at 2700lbs or so would do well, provided the engine wasn't peaky but instead made power all over.

They banned Hoosiers, so people have to run real tires now (mostly Yokos and Pilot Sort Cups)

Everyone here is running ST-115''s or ES100s or 712,s hahahah.

Drift freaq should enter his RB25 car!

[kandyflip445]

Emmisions is the only one that fits in legality. I'm talking about looking at violations that would cause you a "fix-it" ticket or similar things and talley up the cost and stuff and the lowest one gets the highest score.

[North240]

my vote goes to the v-8 FD, i havent even seen the mag, nor do i intend to pick it up but i would imagine its the simplist setup to dominate an all around comp.

A much better build off would be one with a budget, GRM does a $2000 build-up and they test auto-x, drag, and show and its pretty cool. I'm not saying the USCC has to have a 2k limit, but a 100k ferrari that none of us will ever own is kinda stupid.

One last point, i would be interested to see a z06 vette get entered in stock form with stickier rubber, i bet it would win.

[MakotoS13]

heres some answers you guys are overlooking:

240SX's are piles of crap.

with coilovers they ride like buckboard wagons on cobblestone roads.

most 240 nuts dont bother with doing the job RIGHT.

[OptionZero]

if the FD doesn't break, it should definitely place high

the new Z06 is like 80G's man, its almost as out of reach as that 100k ferrari, especially if you want to get new wheels and some Toyo RA-1's on it, plus any reliability stuff you want to do to make sure it handles the abuse.

[MakotoS13]

i could see an LS1 powered FD dominating the competition. its a great chassis that needs a great motor... enter the small block chevy. pwnage.

[Var]

LS1 FD
Full Interior
2800lbs
weight dist F/R 49.5/50.5 <--- that's near perfect which is 49/51
285mm Michelin Pilot Sport Cups all around.
Used GAB coilovers
1.13g's on a 200ft skidpad(broke an SCC record and won a trophy for this)
Came in 4th place out of 8 drivers, and the driver was only at his 3rd track day ever.


Car was built for 20k total. Made 430whp

It's truly the best road race car for your money and it can be completely street legal. In fact the referee will probably love the fact that it will run so much cleaner that the rotary, the worst engine ever built no matter what anyone says.

[OptionZero]

when did it pull a 1.13g? which previous event?

[Var]

I dunno..it was in an SCC shootout. it should be in a magazine or on the website. I went over to the guy's house and i saw the trophy.

[Tenchuu]

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=4811991#post4811991

enjoy.

Proveing makoto is just as tactful and friendly on every forum. lovieng the "I'll stab you cunt" response.

[OptionZero]

Yeah, i saw that. 'twas terrific.

[wootwoot]

I have my money on the s2000 winning. The mild cars always win

[North240]

if the FD doesn't break, it should definitely place high

the new Z06 is like 80G's man, its almost as out of reach as that 100k ferrari, especially if you want to get new wheels and some Toyo RA-1's on it, plus any reliability stuff you want to do to make sure it handles the abuse.

retails in the 68k area, way less than 80k, and actually less than a loaded vert. Just add tires and you have a winner.

Its roughly the same as when car&driver ran hopped up tuner 4 bangers through a road course than ran a stock z06 and the z06 beat everyone.

[Angel]

It is very hard to beat a good chassis that's relatively lightweight and powered by a strong and most importantly broad powerband engine. The z06 is exactly that. I think that some imports ( even 4 cyl's ) can be built to a certain goal and better the car, but most don't/can't put a car like that together. Throw some r compounds, heads, cam, full exhaust and some good brake pads on a z06 and you have one hell of a track car that's still very capable of being used every day.

[TheWolf]

K next year I'm throwing my s14 in the ring there...

[OptionZero]

Best part of a stock car is it'll pass emissions without any trickery.