Which sway bar do I need?

[xagna]

I am thinking about purchasing sway bars for a s13 with megan coilover.

There are so many different thickness for sway bars and I don't know which thickness will induce understeer or oversteer.

Which size do you recommand?

Is there a method that I can calculate for things like this?

[Yoshi]

for what application?
DD? Drift? Drag? AutoX?

[MakotoS13]

get the thickets bars you can find for the front for the best oversteer and remove your bar in the back.

it'll be awesome.

[wootwoot]

How about Whiteline so they are adjustable

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

for what application?
DD? Drift? Drag? AutoX?

What would you need swaybars for drag racing?

I say get a matched pair. Adjustible are the best. I have Whiteline and they are terrific.

[DJPimpFlex]

I have tanabes. Awsome balence and driveability. The car changes directions about 1000 times faster. I also have KTS coilovers and they have somewhat high spring rates (8 and 6 respectively). The sizes seem rather off, but they are tublar chromolly so they adjusted stifness by the inner wall thinkness. They do not make the car understeer more than normal, they are very well balenced. I'm very happy with them (mostly because I got them cheep too, they are on the pricy side).

[OptionZero]

if you're not actually driving your car, you don't need sway bars...

And if you're getting sway bars for the heck of getting sway bars, suspension techniques is the cheapest.

[monkey7]

I just get swaybars period, the stock ones if you have them don't do much justice.

[JDMs13]

Disregard a certain someone here. If your trying to get your car sideways (which you should be) then just worry about a rear sway bar. Anything thicker than stock will help induce overstear. Stock sway bar out front is fine, leave it be.

[Yoshi]

What would you need swaybars for drag racing?

I say get a matched pair. Adjustible are the best. I have Whiteline and they are terrific.

That was half my point, if he said drag, we could've just told him to save his $.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

if you're not actually driving your car, you don't need sway bars...

And if you're getting sway bars for the heck of getting sway bars, suspension techniques is the cheapest.

WTF are you talking about!? I don't think even you know.

DJpimpflex: Did you get a pair? Sounds like it.
Balance is the key to a good sway bar set up. So many people do things like remove the front bar, or just get a huge rear bar. This will upset the way the car behaves and will usually make you slower. Drift, autox, HPDE doesn't matter. A good swaybar setup will not be much different in any situation.
I like my Whitelines because they are adjustable. First putting them on made a huge improvement in the way my car handles and responds to steering. I tried adjusting the rears just one setting more stiff and it made a huge difference for the better. One more would be too much and make my car oversteer prone, which would be slower.

[OptionZero]

I'm talkin bout the original poster, who doesn't really seem to know what he's diong, and hasn't yet responded to this thread.

You don't necessarily *need* sway bars, and there are disadvantages to having an overly stiff chassis with large bars.

For example, a large rear sway bar may lift a rear inner wheel, thus if you had an HLSD you'd lose any advantage it could provide.

On a track with uneven surface, or where time can be shaved by getting up on the berms a good bit, a sway bar might also be a disadvantage because you'll upset the car.

My point was not to put them on for the sake of putting them on. And if he's just daily driving with no aspirations to drift, autoX, or track...well...

[m0rex]

get the thickets bars you can find for the front for the best oversteer and remove your bar in the back.

it'll be awesome.


Yes!!! Do it. Thats why s14 handle way more better than any car. They dont have a sway bar in the back only the SE does thats why it sucks so much. :bigok:

Ok seriously you need to do you own research on this. If you dont know the basics then you should be doing anything to your suspension.

[chuy]

Tanbes love them

[SochBAT]

Maybe its just me, but after throwing on the sways, i've noticed i've increased understeer under certain conditions, and currently deal wit bumpsteer. I think im going to switch out my front sways back for stocker ones.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

Ha ok Option. Sorry I few off the handle a bit there. There are situations where stiffer swaybars might not be the best. Personally, my swaybars are part of my life, and existence would be unbearable with out them

[TurDz]

While sway bars can improve the rigidity of the overall vehicle, what matters most is the relative BALANCE between front and rear (as mentioned above.)

[sykikchimp]

Maybe its just me, but after throwing on the sways, i've noticed i've increased understeer under certain conditions, and currently deal wit bumpsteer. I think im going to switch out my front sways back for stocker ones.


If I was you I would try adjusting my tire pressures before just taking the bars off. If that doesn't help, usually a slight suspension geometry change can help.. such as more front tire camber, or less rear.

[OptionZero]

and if they are adjustable and you are getting understeer, make the rear stiffer and front softer.

The way I remember it is the end of the car that is stiffer will lose traction first.

[xagna]

How does adjousting on whiteline swaybars work?
Where can I get them cheap?

[OptionZero]

man, you're not even trying now...

[kandyflip445]

Jeff240sx gave me this link a while back.

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm

:)

[Var]

For a drift setup I would get a Hicas rear sway bar and a whiteline in the front. Set it up for understeer so you can extend your slides at full angle without spinning out.

[SHIFT_control]

Personally, I would go with Susp. Techniques. I've got the huge 27mm front bar, 22 mm rear and the car has tightened up quite a bit. When pushed really ahrd it understeers a bit, but just lift off the throttle and oversteer is induced easily. Best susp. mod I've done so far. Much more effective than my Nismo shock/spring combo.

[veilside180sx]

Adjustables are best, if you know how to adjust according to feel and what you desire. If not, it gives you another opportunity to make your car feel worse and not better.

For adjustables I'd go with the new Progress Group ones. They come with heim joints from the factoy and are very nice. Unfortunately with the Whitelines (what I have) it's an afterthought and rather expensive afterpurchase from splparts.com.

my .02

[Omarius Maximus]

With your 8 6 spring rate, I don't think you'll be needing gigantic ones, and since your coilovers are adjustable, you can change the rear characteristics of the car through spring rates rather than sway bars, which makes an adjustable one unessecary. So basically you have two options. You can get something like suspension techniques, where they are solid, but cheap, or you can spend extra and get chromoly hollow ones from tanabe, or any other super expensive manufacturer. But seeing as how you have a budget, perhaps Suspension techniques would be best.

[Omarius Maximus]

Also, "getting a big fat sway bar up front" while disregarding the rear will give you understeer, not drift. Stiff front end gives you increased initial responsiveness, and high speed stability while increasing understeer mid corner. Softer front gives you better mid corner grip but it doesn't inspire too much confidence because of the leaning.
Rear bars will either make or break the deal.
I've learned that theres always a trade off when tuning rear suspension.
When I'm going 35 or under, soft is way more preferable in corners cause the outer tire digs in and grips
Firm gives you stability in high speed corners, but your car will feel like its 3 wheeling if you take a slow corner hard with no lsd.

[Var]

Also, "getting a big fat sway bar up front" while disregarding the rear will give you understeer, not drift. Stiff front end gives you increased initial responsiveness, and high speed stability while increasing understeer mid corner. Softer front gives you better mid corner grip but it doesn't inspire too much confidence because of the leaning.
Rear bars will either make or break the deal.
I've learned that theres always a trade off when tuning rear suspension.
When I'm going 35 or under, soft is way more preferable in corners cause the outer tire digs in and grips
Firm gives you stability in high speed corners, but your car will feel like its 3 wheeling if you take a slow corner hard with no lsd.


I dunno who this was in response to, me or Makoto, or maybe no one at all. Makoto was kidding, and for drift if i had to choose between a fatty up front or a fatty in the rear, i would get it in the front. Rhys Millen isn't even running a rear sway bar on his GTO. He always gets insane angle and holds a tight line because the rear is planted.

[Omarius Maximus]

Your probably right, but his car probably has ridiculous spring rates. I think on a street car, even with Megans, its better to balance with 2 bars.

[Var]

Depends on what kind of balance you want. I'm speaking strictly for drifting. I used Whiteline F&R, and the rear was set to full stiff and the front was set to 2/3. I was spinning out at full lock until i changed the front o full stiff. I'm sure if i reduced the rear bar size i could have got another degree, another second before spinning, whatever..every little bit counts.

I think whitelines F&R would be awesome for tuning a grip car cause the adujstability makes a real difference

[JDMs13]

Rhys Millen isn't even running a rear sway bar on his GTO. He always gets insane angle and holds a tight line because the rear is planted.[/QUOTE]


Or because his car has a bajillion dollars poured into along with factory support.

I would compare that once burly domestic "ahem" to a factory backed supercross bike. Money is not an issue once factories get involved.

That car should not even be allowed to compete.

[Var]

I'm glad we agree. So after all that money spent on trackdays to sort out his suspension, he decided he didnt need a rear sway bar.

[sdtouge]

interesting thread.
i agree with the tuning for understeer when drifting.
but to what extent is the question.
shure it depends on the driver.

[SilviaSR20DET]

get tanabes you wont be dissappointed

[sdtouge]

yeah thats whhat the consensus around here is.
i was just reading back some and Var you have had some greatly varying opinions on sway bars lol.
many of them contradict eachother, i dunno.

thing is the tanabes when installed vs. stock has more of a oversteer bias (beucase of the size ratio f/r) but verse the hicas ones its more understeer.
on a s14 im guessing its like 10000000% more over steer if you have a base becuase they dont even have rear sway bar lol.

[orion::S14]

My S14, with Tein HE's and Whitelines F&R...was too tail happy for me. This is for road course, and some autocross.

Tried all the adjustments to the bars, shock settings, spring preload, weight balance (lower in the rear), swapped to OEM endlinks versus the weird Whiteline ones, etc...nothing made it feel 'right'. Tried 235F, 255R tires - Still no dice...

Removed the rear Whitleine bar in favor of the OEM SE rear bar...and now it's *perfect*.

With staggered tires, or not...it's nice and neutral.

Couple weekends ago did some testing, it did ~1.1g AVERAGE (1.12 one way, 1.08 other direction) on a skidpad on 235 width Kumho V700s on all 4...can't complain about that!

- Brian

[sdtouge]

wow
those are great numbers!

[SR240DET]

stock front and ST rear with custom bushings made a big difference... i dont drift though..

at autocross id get too much understeer.... so i switched the front with stock and upgraded the bushing now it feels great..

[KingKong8247]

stock front and ST rear with custom bushings made a big difference... i dont drift though..

at autocross id get too much understeer.... so i switched the front with stock and upgraded the bushing now it feels great..


OK I know this is a kind of old thread but I have that same sway setup on my car right now, ST rear stock front, Powertrix RUCA and tein basics. I get crazy understeer and am sick of it. I had the ST front on there and it handled perfect

So I am confused how is it handling great for you but crappy for me? And I was looking into the tanabe front to help correct this understeer, good idea?

Car will be for Auto-x

[Irukandji]

OK I know this is a kind of old thread but I have that same sway setup on my car right now, ST rear stock front, Powertrix RUCA and tein basics. I get crazy understeer and am sick of it. I had the ST front on there and it handled perfect

So I am confused how is it handling great for you but crappy for me? And I was looking into the tanabe front to help correct this understeer, good idea?

Car will be for Auto-x

For the most case, Stiffening the front will induce more understeer

Stiffening the rear will induce more oversteer

may not be true for all cars, but for the most part, it's true for ours.

Want less understeer? Keep the stuff you have now, and get better tires.

[KingKong8247]

Yea tires probably will help Ill try that first before getting another sway bar since the tires I have on now are just cheap winter beaters

[Replicant_S14]

For the most case, Stiffening the front will induce more understeer

Stiffening the rear will induce more oversteer

may not be true for all cars, but for the most part, it's true for ours.



Nah, it's pretty much true for all of them.

Thing is, the 240 people who I see understeering at auto-x/trackdays are overdriving the car. They don't know what they are doing. Of course they don't listen when you tell them that, so they convince themselves that they need to turn the rear suspension into an uncompliant P.O.S. to induce oversteer. You don't need to induce oversteer on our cars. Go back through the thread, Orion, Var, and (even tho he was joking) Makato are right.

I started with WLs front and rear (front full soft, rear full stiff) to full stiff WL front and the pencil-thin o.e. rear. I could use a little more in front but it's pretty much dead-on for me.

[Ricks15]

What I noticed with my junker stiffining the rear will make it swing alot more crazier, If you upgrade to some parts for the front that will allow you add camber then youre ok, cuz you will have some good grip in front.