Turbo Shmurbo

[driftkid316]

Hey, im about to put a Ka24de into my ae86. i already own a 240 and just got the corolla, kinda want the best of both worlds. The wieght of the AE and the torque of the KA. but yea, anyways, im about to tear apart the ka and replace some of the important stuff because it has 200+k. i was thinking, while im in there, i might as well start upgrading some stuff. i dont want to turbo this motor and want to crank a good amount of power out of it. the basic things im going to do of course, is intake and exhaust, also thinking cams and pulleys. any suggestions of what else i should do? does anyone make high comp pistons for the DE? any suggestions welcome, thanks. my goal is around 190-200 whp.

[OptionZero]

it'll be hard to do, certainly alot of work. You'll need engine management, probably lose alot of low end power along the way.

JWT makes cams, also can use '91 cams.
injectors
lighter flywheel/driveshaft/pulleys
fat exhaust
header
highflow cat
you can use KA-E pistons for higher comp
maybe headwork?

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

If that is all the power you want just buy the basic Greddy KA turbo kit. Cheaper and easier than trying to get that power NA, plus you get even MORE torque. You say you don't want turbo, why not?

[driftkid316]

u can use KA-E pistons with no problems? do u use the rings and whatever else too? and didnt the KA-E have lower comp?

[driftkid316]

If that is all the power you want just buy the basic Greddy KA turbo kit. Cheaper and easier than trying to get that power NA, plus you get even MORE torque. You say you don't want turbo, why not?

i dont want turbo because im not looking for thaaat much power, no doubt it'd be nice. but i just like the feeling of an NA motor for drifting. okay maybe it was just wishful thinking to get 190 or so without spending too much, i just didnt want tonly do the basic intake, exhaust and headers. thanks for the input.

[aznpoopy]

i dont want turbo because im not looking for thaaat much power, no doubt it'd be nice. but i just like the feeling of an NA motor for drifting. okay maybe it was just wishful thinking to get 190 or so without spending too much, i just didnt want tonly do the basic intake, exhaust and headers. thanks for the input.

im pretty sure the greddy turbo kit bumps up the hp to 'only' 200whp or so. that's not much more then your goal.

downside is you could piece something similar together for cheaper. upside is it comes with a pretuned piggyback.

[wootwoot]

I just cant understand this route since there are Toyota engines available far supperior to the KA that bolt in way easier.

[driftkid316]

I just cant understand this route since there are Toyota engines available far supperior to the KA that bolt in way easier.

i just wanted to do something different and also its alot cheaper. ive been thinking about the 20v 4ag but thats gona cost alot more. the KA isnt that hard to bolt right in.

i guess ill just keep the KA stock and maybe someday go SR and will have turbo.

[NZO]

A few people have already done this, try looking for info on club4ag.

[anthony240]

this has been discussed numerous times

but since you got the engine apart, get the head ported/polished, the block honed, the crankshaft balanced, etc. and let us know how much hp that makes. might get you closer to your goal.

[Phlip]

A friend of mine down here in NC is putting a KA into his 86, but he has the good common sense to know that "only 190-200 whp" is more easily and cost effectively attained with a forced induction and not with a bunch of bolt ons... I would tell about all the other shit he has done, with the ENTIRE car apart, but he knows my home address.

[infinitexsound]

go old school and fab dual mikunis .... with some good cams and headers good enough...

[mellojoe]

Only 200whp?

You are starting with an engine that puts out only 120whp. 120whp to 200whp is an 80hp increase, thats a 67% bump over stock. 2/3 more power. Most "off the shelf" turbo kits advertise a 60% bump in horsepower.

N/A mods might get you to 150whp or maybe 160whp. I seriously doubt you'll even get 160whp, but you might.

[BigVinnie]

Hey, im about to put a Ka24de into my ae86. i already own a 240 and just got the corolla, kinda want the best of both worlds. The wieght of the AE and the torque of the KA. but yea, anyways, im about to tear apart the ka and replace some of the important stuff because it has 200+k. i was thinking, while im in there, i might as well start upgrading some stuff. i dont want to turbo this motor and want to crank a good amount of power out of it. the basic things im going to do of course, is intake and exhaust, also thinking cams and pulleys. any suggestions of what else i should do? does anyone make high comp pistons for the DE? any suggestions welcome, thanks. my goal is around 190-200 whp.


Yeah man for mad power and to keep it streetable I would order some wiseco 11.1:1 pistons for the DE engine, then select your rods, either go with the Eagle, or with the wiseco. Upgrade to titanium retainers and springs. CA18det retainers are identical to that of the KA, JUN makes great retainers for the CA but alittle pricey. Look for a larger TB profesional product's,BBK, and accufab make an after market 65mm TB that was made for the 1986-1993 for mustang 5.0, the objctive is to provde more high end HP numbers while still keeping midrange torque.
Take out your secondary butterfly's to increase top end performance, also increases the engine in stock trim by about 6HP.
If you want to keep the ecu tuning cheap just get an SAFC and run more injection in higher rpm, this will increase your crank HP but don't expect big numbers only 8-10 depending on your modifications.
SR20det 370cc injectors you should be able to get for pretty cheap, select a good lift and duration cam PDM, or JWT..............
Use iridium spark plugs and an SCI ignition system.
If you have the extra cash get a good aluminum flywheel, and 2.5" exhaust.
As far as headers DC sports or Hot shots are the top 2 headers on the market...
For the highest top end performance and aceleration just install you MAF and filter directly to the TB...........

[RBS14]

A lot of what Bigvinnie said is true, except for a couple things.

If you're trying to get max hp with a n/a ka, especially in the 190-200hp range, you need a 3" exhaust. Forget 2.5". Waste of time and money.

And you want to mount the MAF no less than 6" away from the TB because the turbulence the TB creates will mess up the MAF reading.

Also, I'm not sure but I think the highest comp off the shelf pistons Wiseco makes are 10.5:1. If you want GOOD rods, go with the Carillos.

Oh and I would stay away from the carbs. there's a lot involved such as converting your fuel system to a low pressure one, among others.

[driftkid316]

thanks for all the great info. im going to do the sohc KA pistons thing but searched and havent gotten too clear of an answer, do i need anything else but the single cam pistons to make it work?
but yea, im going to get some head work done and alot of other goodies. we'll see where i get with it. and if i dont get where i want with NA, then a little bit of nitruos when i race someone should do me fine. this all should be done in about a month.

[BigVinnie]

Also, I'm not sure but I think the highest comp off the shelf pistons Wiseco makes are 10.5:1. If you want GOOD rods, go with the Carillos.

Oh and I would stay away from the carbs. there's a lot involved such as converting your fuel system to a low pressure one, among others.

Actually if you use I.E only NIZZX offers the wiseco upto 14.1:1CR http://nizzx.com/engine%20build%20up.asp

Agreed with the carbs not that good of an atomizer, compared to MPI and valves used.
As for exhaust I'm old school, Rebello Racing still recomends 2.5" exhaust.....

[BigVinnie]

thanks for all the great info. im going to do the sohc KA pistons thing but searched and havent gotten too clear of an answer, do i need anything else but the single cam pistons to make it work?


Make shure that you get the 90-92 pistons they had a .020mm drop in piston surface. The pre 89 SOHC pistons you will run into valve clearnce issues, stay away from the 89 year pistons. Don't forget to get the SOHC rods.

[RBS14]

Make shure that you get the 90-92 pistons they had a .020mm drop in piston surface. The pre 89 SOHC pistons you will run into valve clearnce issues, stay away from the 89 year pistons. Don't forget to get the SOHC rods.

DOHC rods are fine. No need for SOHC rods.

[BigVinnie]

DOHC rods are fine. No need for SOHC rods.

Devious KA stated that the rings and pins that join rod to piston are different.

[Maeda]

I love ka's don't get me wrong... but wouldn't a 3SGE be a better idea?

Ignore the comment if budget is the issue... In that case I completely understand.

[driftkid316]

I love ka's don't get me wrong... but wouldn't a 3SGE be a better idea?

Ignore the comment if budget is the issue... In that case I completely understand.
lol, thats exactly the case. on a very tight budget. got my KA for 150 so yea... otherwise if i had a little more money, id just go 20v 4ag.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

Stroke It.... Importperformanceparts.net Makes A 2.6l Stroker For The Ka, Then Sleeve It And Go With 92mm Pistons (11:1 C/r), Do Full Head Work (set Proper Quench, Port, Polish, Over Size The Valves, Ceramic Coat The Valves And Exhaust Ports), Balance The Rotating Assembly, Lighten The Assembly, Knife Edge The Crank, Use Lightend Pullies, Use An Ultra Light Flywheel, Hpc Coat (pistons, Bearings, Headers, Etc.), Run Tuned Long-tube Headers, Custom Build A Itb Setup, Run Aggressive Cams, And Get A Standalone.

Or You Can Buy The Greddy Turbo Kit And Be Done With It For 1/4 The Cost.

[BigVinnie]

Or why not do a z20s block, with a KAE head. Then you pretty much have a destroked KA for a fraction of the cost. KA transmissions bolt right up, and using all siamesed L series internals you can high rev to almost 8800RPM, with a 86mm stroke, instead of tha KA's 96mm stroke.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

He Wants It For The Torque Not The Revability Though.....

[BigVinnie]

He Wants It For The Torque Not The Revability Though.....

He can always bore to 2.2 and still get a 8500RPM rev, and get that lowend torque.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

An Over Bore Will Increase Topend More Than Torque.... Stroke Is The Biggest Factor Of Torque.

[BigVinnie]

An Over Bore Will Increase Topend More Than Torque.... Stroke Is The Biggest Factor Of Torque.

Yeah but then again it still has maddd torque. L series crank has the same geometry as the KA stroker crank, just a tad smaller....
Those L16, 18, and even the L20b's defenitely make more power than what a wacky honda guy can get out of his 1.6~2.0 displacement engine..
L series engines are defenitely torquey and increasing the piston displacement, will increase the momentum of the upward stroke which also makes torque.

[mellojoe]

lol, thats exactly the case. on a very tight budget. got my KA for 150 so yea... otherwise if i had a little more money, id just go 20v 4ag.

See, you guys are out here talking about stroker kits, sleeving the block, upgraded valvetrain, new pistons, rods, etc. How expensive is that?!?

If you don't want a turbo, you are on a tight budget, and you want to increase your horsepower any significant margin, then you should seriously look at a nitrous kit. I mean, less than $1000 to do it right, and you could easily add 50whp.

Or, if you want to spend $3000 for a stroker kit, plus cams, fuel tuning, valves, springs, port + polish, plus the little extras ... I mean, you are looking at probably $5000 or more.

For that kind of money, does it not make more sense to just turbocharge it? Sure, you set yourself a budget of $3500, you could easily be at 220whp or 250whp. Not to mention, you could do a budget buildup of $2000 to $2500 and still break 200whp. Which, in my limited experience, is still going to be significantly more than you could ever hope to achieve on even a well funded naturally aspriated project.

On a similar budget, what would you call a realistic result N/A? Or go low budget, spend $200 on an intake, $500 on an exhaust, $400 on a set of headers, get used cams from an s13 and do the exhaust cam trick (248/248). Where do you think you will be in power?

I just don't think there is anyway you can look at N/A power on a budget and get any type of realistic gains that would warrant staying away from forced induction. However, I'd love to see someone prove me wrong.

[BigVinnie]

However, I'd love to see someone prove me wrong.

HAHA I'll be one of the few. I've been watching the NASPORT builders and a few guy's at Rebello that have tought me some tricks. For a little under $2000.00 and alot of spare time putting together a KA with a relative HP number to that of the first gen turbo charged stock sr isn't that difficult to build.
1.) raising compression is a must
2.) widing the TB diameter is a must
3.) larger injection top feed from the CA, or side feed from the sr is a must
4.) Fuel pump upgrade
5.)tuned ecu, and possibly a piggy back for a little added kick
6.) cams lobe and duration (more aggressive tunning for top end power)
Drop all degredation Aluminum flywheel, electric fan, and aluminum pulley, even get your hands on an aluminum drive shaft
7.) stronger LSD either KAaz, cusco, nismo ( i would say that is the last on the to do list)
8.) upgrading the transmission to 280z, or 300z, with an adapter plate.
9.) most of these parts accept for the aluminum,tb, pistons and rods, and cams I can get at a wrecking yard.
10.)shorter runners and larger plenium, (welded by myself)
11.) port and hone with your basic dremel

Lets face it, it's just not about applying a turbo, it is more of a mtter of what is more convenient and resourceful. Even if you do SR swap, you still need to buy down pipe, and intercooling piping, and exhaust also. Some shops don't even include the FMIC with the engine package. Oh throw in the new clutch you will need on a used sr as well, you want boost you need a boost controller and BOV. Don't forget engine and transmission mounts either.
The fact is upgrading anything will cost money.
By the time the sr is installed and you want modifictions it will all cost money.
Just what is more convenient to the consumer, for what you pay in CHP it's all practical too it's relative cost.
Besides turbo's may make power, but there also a gas guzzler when it comes to boosting, you still pay more at the pump. Then when you deal with boosting, how much boost? A s13 and s14 aren't very streetable after 300CHP the rear slides all over the place due to it's light chassis weight, but I do see how it's nice to punk people on the track with quarter mile times, when your fully boosted.
In my opinion it all cost the same when it comes to how streetable/how much HP you can push out of your engine.

[NemeGuero]

How long had you been waiting to dump out all that info!? haha

[BigVinnie]

How long had you been waiting to dump out all that info!? haha


Didn't really plan too, I'm just sick and tired of hearing that turbo charging is the only relative answer to easy HP numbers, it's just not true.
As for relative cost if you are N/A and decide to use NOS as a form of forced induction, it would cost you the same for all the fuel refills you need when your on a boosted SR. Like I said performance on any streetable level will all cost the same. Nos refills get expensive, just as refuelling on a boosted sr does. For a one time use I'd rather build an N/A ka weither it cost me $2000~$4000, to know that I conveniently have 225~240CHP, and I can conservatively use fuel to my advantage. Also look into future investing with you engine and what type of repaires are you looking at. Down the road turbo charging is more expensive. If you boost you decrease the life span of your turbo. Which isn't too promising since the average turbo last between 60,000~100,000m. Like I said cost is the same if not more when turboed. You may have all that extra power but how convenient, and reliable is it down the road...

[nissandr1ft]

JW Phil was that your coupe over at Chris's for the longest time?